[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by shekharlele

Hey Amit,

You make an interesting point. ABS helps in preventing brakes from locking up under heavy braking conditions, but it works with the existing brake system of the vehicle, which means the same brake liners, pads, booster et al. What is possibly of more interest is the EBD or electronic breakforce distribution, which sort of distributes braking power between front and rear wheels. The Mhawk has ABS, but not EBD (I think)...

Now, coming to throwing the scorp around on curves, I noticed a curious thing. I stay at Lokhandwala (andheri) and for those familiar with the area, the back road has a beautiful 90 degree curve on the road. None of my vehicles including the Indica, Santro or even the Innova manage to corner it well (meaning, giving me a feeling of stability) over 40. The scorpio also faces the same issue of pitching to the left at anything above 40, but If I try, I get a distinct feeling of moving in my seat! But this could also be due to my worn out tyres. Any of you experienced similar stuff?

You're right on the Mhawk not having EBD. Losers.

Did you experience the vehicle *skipping* - sideways? If yes, so did I. The recipe would be to have Bilsteins + Better rubber.

[shekharlele]

Yeah red, but I dunno what 'skipping' is, what I experienced was a sideways sway on the vehicle and a distinct feeling that if I overdid it, the black pearl would topple.

[4x4addict]

I am actually surprised that someone is actually questioning the effectiveness/benefits of ABS. Buddy, you have a long way to go in understanding vehicle safety technologies. Don't forget that slippery conditions do not only mean wet conditions. Most of our highways have patches of sand gravel on the road.

You can apply the same rational to airbags, the vehicle can spend it's whole life without the airbags ever inflating. But they are there for the rare times you need them. Similarly when puttering around town ABS/Non ABS doesn't really matter, but when braking at high speeds especially when swerving to avoid a collision, ABS will definitely make a difference in your ability to control the vehicle. Maybe in a low slung sedan you may just skid without rolling over, but in top heavy SUVs like the Scorpio or Safari, I wouldn't not get the vehicle without ABS, if I wanted to use it for high speed highway cruising.

Just to highlight a recent experience that I had. My Santro Automatic has the ABS (very expensive at that time) option. The other day I was driving in Chennai and when you come down the Kodambakkam flyover from T-Nagar, there is a 90 degree turn to the right in Front of Brown Stone apartments). This road has a median and a father and son on a motorcycle was in the front left side of me taking the same turn as me. We were both not going too fast. Unfortunately heavy vehicle (maybe lorry/bus) had spilled a huge puddle of engine oil right at the 90 degree turn. The Bike was being tilted to the right by the rider to make the 90 degree turn and I was a few feet behind him. The bike slipped on the oil and toppled over right in front of my car. I slammed the brakes harder than I have ever done in my life and my heart stopped beating for a few seconds. When I stopped the car the child was a few inches from the vehicle. I still believe ABS made the difference. Even I used to question the rationale of ABS in the city, but this incident changed my perception. Agreed, this is a freak incident and many of us me included may never come across this scenario, but that is precisely what air bags, ABS, seat belts, head restraints are for !!. For those rare freak moments when they will make the difference.

Just my two cents. Dont' want to convert anyone. If you feel ABS is useless, please save the money :-)

[Hoopoe]

Originally Posted by shekharlele

Yeah red, but I dunno what 'skipping' is, what I experienced was a sideways sway on the vehicle and a distinct feeling that if I overdid it, the black pearl would topple.

That feeling of 'topple' you are experiencing is due to the higher centre of gravity of the SUV. It is normal. By simple logic, you can corner a low and lighter car more effectively than a heavier and higher car. Also, consider that SUVs have a longer suspension travel and softer suspension to take in bums and shocks of off-roading, thereby making the sway effect more pronounced.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I am actually surprised that someone is actually questioning the effectiveness/benefits of ABS.
If you feel ABS is useless, please save the money :-)

Experts here who mave mastered the art of cadence braking do not advocate ABS! I do... The Scorpio I booked has it.

[chandrda]

Hi All

I am facing a strange but very serious problem with my scorpio. The entire scorpio vibrates at a particular speed and RPM in different gears. The vibration is not constant, anything above or below that particular speed and RPM, the vibrations stops. I can feel the vibration in the steering, floor, ORVMs and body. When ever I accelarate hard or going through a slope, I get a wobbly feeling from the front wheels. When ever I apply brakes to negotiate a hump, it slows down with a vibrations right at the end. Its very difficult to explain this problem even to Service Centre Guys.

I have shown the vibration to them and they have tried hard to resolve the issue, but it seems to never go away.

This vibration has only creeped up from last 5-6 months.

I am really looking for few suggestion from you guys, as this vibration is really taking away the joy of driving my scorpio.

Its a 2007 LX Model and has done 37500 KMS.

Here are the thing which we have done to resolve the vibration -
1. New Bridgestone Tyres - has done only 2000 KMS
2. New Wheels Discs (RIMS)
3. New Propeller Shaft
4. New Intermediate Shaft
5. Entire suspension has been thoroughly checked.
6. New Engine Mounts
7. Body Bolts checked and tightened
8. Gear Box removed and Aligned
9. New Oil seperator
10. Turbo cleaned
11. Intercooler cleaned
12. Diesel and oil filter cleaned
13. 'n' number of wheel balancing and alignment done

I an really looking for few suggestion from all your scorpio experts

Thanks in Advance

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by chandrda

The entire scorpio vibrates at a particular speed and RPM in different gears.
Here are the thing which we have done to resolve the vibration -
1. New Bridgestone Tyres - has done only 2000 KMS
2. New Wheels Discs (RIMS)
3. New Propeller Shaft
4. New Intermediate Shaft
5. Entire suspension has been thoroughly checked.
6. New Engine Mounts
7. Body Bolts checked and tightened
8. Gear Box removed and Aligned
9. New Oil seperator
10. Turbo cleaned
11. Intercooler cleaned
12. Diesel and oil filter cleaned
13. 'n' number of wheel balancing and alignment done

Since your car has been so thoroughly checked, let's try and ask some more specific questions before hazarding a remote diagnosis.

1. Does the car vibrate if you rev it to that particular RPM when standing still in neutral?
2. Do the vibrations go away if you allow the car to roll in neutral, at the speed at which vibrations set in?
3. When braking, do the vibrations become worse if you step on the brake pedal a little harder?
4. Were the chassis-to-body mountings checked for cracks/damage?


Interesting situation, would like to find out the resolution.

[Rahulk76]

Originally Posted by chandrda

...I am facing a strange but very serious problem with my scorpio. The entire scorpio vibrates at a particular speed and RPM in different gears. .......

Here are the thing which we have done to resolve the vibration -
=========
13. 'n' number of wheel balancing and alignment done....

chandrda

Your point number 13 is the clue to major of your issues.
I had the same kind of issues, but 90% went away after a competent TASS pointed me to the issue of tyre runouts on my safari & involved bridgestone.

You need to check the runout of each of the wheels on your scorpio. If I assume correct, your Front Right tyre would be the worst culprit.

Change all four of ur tyres from a vehicle which doesnt exhibit any of the above issues to compare. If the imost of the issues go away then take all ur tires to a a competent tyre shop. They have to do a correct matching of low and high points of the tyre according to tyre manufacturer recommendations on your tire rims

The weight on my safari's tyres were reduced to approx 35gm per tyre after a this workout by bridgestone & to top it I had a same issues on my 7k run 2 month old vehicle.

Let me know if this helps you.

[chandrda]

Thanks for the quick reply

1. Does the car vibrate if you rev it to that particular RPM when standing still in neutral?
No, it doesn't vibrate standing still in neutral, even tried lift up the entire vehicle in the service centre and then tyring it out in different gears, no vibrations.

1. Do the vibrations go away if you allow the car to roll in neutral, at the speed at which vibrations set in?
Have not tried this since it comes at particular speed, maintaining that speed in neutral is quite diffcult. But will take it NICE road and try it out this weekend.

1. When braking, do the vibrations become worse if you step on the brake pedal a little harder?
No, its only when brake gradually, there is no vibration if I apply the brake a bit harder

1. Were the chassis-to-body mountings checked for cracks/damage?
Yes, it was checked

The vibration is accompained with a kind of jumping feeling, if I take out my hand off the steering, I can see the steering actually jumping a bit with the vehicle.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by chandrda

...even tried lift up the entire vehicle in the service centre and then tyring it out in different gears, no vibrations.

...its only when brake gradually, there is no vibration if I apply the brake a bit harder

It seems to be an issue with the rolling gear - tyres, wheels, bearings. Since there is no noise associated with bearings, we deduce that the wheels and tyres are the culprits. Rahulk76 has probably hit the nail on the head, which he has apparently learnt the hard way...

Originally Posted by Rahulk76

...the issue of tyre runouts

Find yourself a wheel balancing centre with a machine which can detect tyre runouts. Or, just take off all the tyres from their rims, and remount them after rotating a little against the rim to realign the yellow dot

with the valve stem (that's provided the dot hasn't been scraped off somehow). Remove all balancing weights, and re-balance.

Hopefully, this'll solve your problem.

[anjan_c2007]

I seek your suggestions for painting the new Scorpio LX bumpers, grille, door handles that are black now.
Was contemplating body colours for the bumper, door handles but was also thinking of painting the front grille diamond white.
Seek your valuable inputs as to whether this will look cool?



This is how the Brute SUV looks now

[raj_5004]

you can colour the mirrors, handles & grill in body colour but IMO, painting grille in white will not look good. leave it black or else paint it in body colour.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

It seems to be an issue with the rolling gear - tyres, wheels, bearings.

Could it not be the clutch plate? That's one item that has not been investigated.

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

you can colour the mirrors, handles & grill in body colour but IMO, painting grille in white will not look good. leave it black or else paint it in body colour.

thanks Raj. Will paint it in body colour otherwise.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Could it not be the clutch plate?

Shouldn't a clutch issue show up as a vibration when moving off? And IMO it wouldn't be confined to a particular speed when driving, or when braking.