[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

....
Let me know of a vehicle that will not show tantrums like these after a decade(leaving aside a few toyota's).

Akshay, let me clarify.
What I said has less to do with specific problems (which is a matter that can be discussed ad nauseum) and more to do with the attitude of our desi manufacturers.
The way our countrymen treat us is not the way I want to be treated! Sad to say that other makers treat you a lot better.
You need artifices like 'setting' with a specific person at a specific workshop to get anything akin to decent service that ought to be a right of yours!
Sorry, I hold my opinion.

[amitk26]

Clean the contacts of battery with emery paper and tighten it , apply petroleum jelly ( Vaseline ) on the terminals to prevent oxidation. This should solve the problem at hands.

About battery health charge and specific gravity are better indicators then bulge.

Sometimes if Battery clamp nuts are too tight then also the battery side-walls show some bulge. You can get the specific battery checked at any Exide shop they do it FOC.

My Amron battery walls were little bulged and from 2nd year onwards all the mechanics advised to replace but voltage and specific gravity was fine so I kept on ignoring them and it lasted full 69 months

Originally Posted by diwakarmuthu

2. Yesterday morning (26th May), I drove another 13 kms and while coming back, I parked nearby a shop. When I came back, I noticed that the car wouldn't start. I doubted the battery as it is due for a change. I called the road side assistance. The road side assistance arrived after an hour. When we went to check the car, the car ignited in a single crank. We checked the battery and everything was fine. The mechanic indicated that the battery has started to bloat on the sides and it is better that I go for a change. I plan to do it over the weekend. Could a weak battery behave like this?

[Styler]

Okay guys the good news is that the problems with the Central Locking of my Scorpio are fixed.

I dug out a 11 year old number of the person who had fixed the problems in my Autocop Cental Locking immediately after installation.

Luckily his number worked and he is now a manager support at Minda.
He sent one of his engineers who was really competent with Central Locking systems.
Although he works for Minda he checked the cabling of the autocop system and found out some cables shorting etc near the fuse panel. Due to this the main Nippon Gun in the Driver's door had also gone Kaput. We got the Gun, and he fixed the cables and everything is back to normal now.
While checking the issue of No Current at the AC Compressor, the AC guy (Cool Days - Manjit Singh) had screwed up all the Central Locking cables and shorted these.

My Scorpio has never had any major problems. The problems started when I got my AC work done at a roadside AC repair shop, and it was a shop recommended in the Delhi - NCR Directory here at Team-BHP.

The lesson learnt is that for any major jobs think twice - thrice - four times before going to a Roadside mechanic. Only if you really know the Roadside mechanic is competent take his services for any big job.

My Scorpio is more than 10 years old but I still love it more than my 2008 Camry Automatic.
I did think of selling it off and buying a new vehicle, but it is a really simple vehicle to maintain with no ECU and no Engine Check light at all. A mechanic at the Mahindra Workshop in Leh who is a friend told me - Sir this is the best vehicle for you as you drive to such far away places. The new generation Scorpio's have too many niggles and problems. Clutch Cylinders failing before 50K kms, Engine Check light coming on at high altitudes. Starting problems at high altitude.

My Scorpio had driven to Leh twice with almost no problems at all. A friends Nissan Xtrail which travelled from Leh to Delhi with us had numerous problems. And finally it reached Delhi and went for Service the cost of service was 2.5 lacs.

After hearing this, and also seing HVK sir's scorpio doing more than 3.5 lac kms I decided to keep my Scorpio as long as I am able to maintain it in perfect running condition, with no problems with the Engine and the AC.
Even the Service Advisor at Bhasin Motors told me your Scorpio is the older model when thick heavy metal sheets were used and it has not a spot of rusting. He told me much later models start rusting in 5-6 years.

So the day there is an issue with my Scorpio which cannot be fixed, I will sell it and buy a new Vehicle. Now what will be the next vehicle is another difficult decision.

HVK Sir time for you and me to start thinking of what to replace our Scorpios with. Have you given it a thought HVK Sir ?

Styler.

[akshay4587]

How much do disc brake pads last in the Scorpio Mhawk.
60K kms and still on stock pads.

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by Styler

Okay guys the good news is that the problems with the Central Locking of my Scorpio are fixed.

I dug out a 11 year old number of the person who had fixed the problems in my Autocop Cental Locking immediately after installation.

Luckily his number worked and he is now a manager support at Minda.
He sent one of his engineers who was really competent with Central Locking systems.
Although he works for Minda he checked the cabling of the autocop system and found out some cables shorting etc near the fuse panel. Due to this the main Nippon Gun in the Driver's door had also gone Kaput. We got the Gun, and he fixed the cables and everything is back to normal now.
While checking the issue of No Current at the AC Compressor, the AC guy (Cool Days - Manjit Singh) had screwed up all the Central Locking cables and shorted these.

My Scorpio has never had any major problems. The problems started when I got my AC work done at a roadside AC repair shop, and it was a shop recommended in the Delhi - NCR Directory here at Team-BHP.

The lesson learnt is that for any major jobs think twice - thrice - four times before going to a Roadside mechanic. Only if you really know the Roadside mechanic is competent take his services for any big job.

My Scorpio is more than 10 years old but I still love it more than my 2008 Camry Automatic.
I did think of selling it off and buying a new vehicle, but it is a really simple vehicle to maintain with no ECU and no Engine Check light at all. A mechanic at the Mahindra Workshop in Leh who is a friend told me - Sir this is the best vehicle for you as you drive to such far away places. The new generation Scorpio's have too many niggles and problems. Clutch Cylinders failing before 50K kms, Engine Check light coming on at high altitudes. Starting problems at high altitude.

My Scorpio had driven to Leh twice with almost no problems at all. A friends Nissan Xtrail which travelled from Leh to Delhi with us had numerous problems. And finally it reached Delhi and went for Service the cost of service was 2.5 lacs.

After hearing this, and also seing HVK sir's scorpio doing more than 3.5 lac kms I decided to keep my Scorpio as long as I am able to maintain it in perfect running condition, with no problems with the Engine and the AC.
Even the Service Advisor at Bhasin Motors told me your Scorpio is the older model when thick heavy metal sheets were used and it has not a spot of rusting. He told me much later models start rusting in 5-6 years.


Styler.

Good to know that the problem was sorted out thanks to the meticulous work by a skilled technician - something rare nowadays

Yes, the old-gen Scorpio (the 2.6 Turbo) is a fantastic vehicle. Mine is now 3.85 lakhs kms old and sounds and behaves like a 3-month old. All vital statistics are good, although old-age problems do surface every now and then.

The only problem is M&M has made a great car but not the after-sales network commensurate with servicing this car. I will tell you a story that happened to me recently in the next tread.....

[hvkumar]

Want to experience how incompetent Mahindra & Mahindra is - go visit Sutaria Auto in Belgaum - lessons on how not to run a car company......

Or the Story of how.....
.... this dealer has the part, but the "Mahindra"-trained techinician does not know how to fix a pipe..... and took all of 8 hours looking at the pipe wondering how to fit it, with the arrogant workshop manager who looks too fat and incapable of training him how to....

My friends asked me, Why are you going to M&M ASC when you have had innumerable bad experiences in the past?

Reason: a leaking engine oil pipe with 2 nuts - which ruptured throwing out 12 litres of engine oil (2 full tank fillings) avoiding engine seizure just about.... and no, you won't get this pipe anywhere else!

This is the pipe that is the subject-matter of the discussion:



I was driving from Bangalore last week on NH4 through the night. At 6 am some 14 kms before Belgaum, this is what happened:

1. Engine oil warning lamp flashes.
2. Stooped the car immediately, opened the hood
3. Oil all over the engine bay. Dip stick shows no oil left inside the tank
4. Visually checked for the source of the leak, nothing could be made out, no oil was leaking, so that meant oil leak was only when the engine was running
5. Suspected the turbo pipe and the vacuum pump pipe.
6. Started the engine, oil started gushing out of the vacuum pump pipe
7. Opened the top nut of the engine oil pipe leading out of the vacuum pump, checked the washers, phased it & refitted, but the leak continued
8. Yes, the pipe itself was ruptured and leaking oil
9. Bought oil and topped up
10. Drove it 15 kms topping up oil all the way, losing 12 litres of oil overall
11. Sutaria is the only dealer in Belgaum. I reached their place at 830 am instead of going to any way-side mechanic simply because this kind of pipe would not be available anywhere else but in the M&M ASC.


First of all, the ASC did not like m telling them what was wrong. Remember, we are supposed to be Mr Idiot. The biggest hero from this episode is my co-passenger Bhaskar Mandapaka. After the ASC guys virtually threw me out of the workshop (citing reasons like security threats to India's N-establishment), he took over. He tried to tell them how to remove the pipe (they refused to listen to him) and they wasted 2 hours removing it, ultimately removing it as per the technique advocated by Bhaskar in the first place. Then they spent the next 5 hours trying to put in the new pipe - and ultimately Bhaskar was the guy who virtually took the mechanic by the hand and got him to do it the right way! Needless to say, when I blew up on the workshop floor, it was he who continued to educate them how-to and got the work done.

This is what member Parag Sachania had to say about the state of affairs:

The workshop viewed from any angle was perhaps the worst in terms of "everything" .
No Power tools - Yes, every nut is removed using a socket wrench
Only one tool box for 6 hoists- The tool box looks worse than what a Mobile Barber carries
Zero confidence or know-how on strip-tease - They didn't know where to start!! Never seen a mechanic (sorry, "Technician") putting his hands behind the wheel to access something that can otherwise be done easily by removing the wheel first
Arrogance of the workshop folks - No, None of us should dare to come near the car - That is how we were treated. Sorry but this issue was a "Running Repair" and not a regular service with lots of luggage inside. We cannot leave the vehicle in your "Able" Hands
The only 2 things I saw the entire crew doing (while the lone mechanic was staring inside the bonnet of the Scorp looking for a Genie to come out with a Candy) was washing the cars and unboxiing a new MANITEC hoist (wondering the obsession with a new hoist when already there were 6).

Some observations from Sutaria Auto, Belgaum:

1. In this day & age, they open at 10 am - of course, no customer goes back to them again, so I guess they have a light load!

2. At 10 am, the workshop was still closed. At 1010 am, it is found that no one had the key to open it, I guess they finally got someone to come & open it eventually.....

3. The car lay outside till 1045 am when I ultimately drove it into the workshop bay myself

4. Service Advisor examines, we already have the diagnosis since 6 am anyway - but they refuse to accept that the bleeding oil pipe is the problem (RAOTFL)

5. One of the supervisors walks in & says the sump is broken - I blast him & ask him to get lost, stop making irresponsible statements, I am not your usual idiotic customer in the AC lounge watching Star Plus

6. Another test driver starts the car & keeps it idling - I blast him and almost turn off the engine myself! Imagine idling an engine which has NO oil in its system left (that is the height of irresponsibility)

7. The Mahindra-"trained" mechanic fiddles around - he is unable to turn any of the screws because they are all soaked in engine oil that has splattered all over from the broken pipe - and did not have the brains to have the engine bay washed at the outset.... and later the Deputy Works Manager castigates me for bringing the car in dirty (oh yes, there were these moments of comical interludes wen such buffoons used to make their appearance!)

8. BTW, I had better tools with me in my car than this authorised service centre of Mahindra...

9. The Works Manager walks in to "check" the car - ummm, the Doctor stethoscope was missing - and is snooty to refuse to listen to anything I am saying - oh yes, the Customer is King, but he is too irrelevant to be listened too

10. No supervision - here was a grease monkey with some dangerous tools - and started removing things that did not need to be removed, had we not supervised closely, he would have broken some components & replaced them too

11. Can you imagine them doing a "test-drive" after the work is done - with the customer in the back seat???

12. The car was delivered back to me dirtier than before - and with the AC not working! So had to return back to the workshop within 5 minutes to check and rectify a loose solenoid switch which they had tinkered around with during the piping work

13. Even had they referred the Workshop Manual that M&M has given them, I think they could have done this job in 30 minutes flat instead of wasting our full day. And typically, they kept saying work will be over in next 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 90 minutes, all day..... the SMS that came to me from some buffoons in M&M was ultimately right since the standard automated software in their job card system simply indicated 630 pm as estimated delivery time - it appears to rate each ASC for incompetence levels.....!!! (and got the time right)!!!

14. Imagine this same dealer has workshops - and the sole one at that - in 2 important cities of Belgaum & Hubli. I feel sorry for the Mahindra owners in these cities. But we also found out that no one pays a second visit to Sutaria...

15. Some years ago, I was very impressed listening to the convocation speech delivered at IIM-B by Anand Mahindra - but it looks like now you need to sit down & listen to my speech on management lessons for you, Mr Anand Mahindra


2 or 3 Twitter messages sent by our friends Alok GUnhal, Bhavin Tolia & Rajnish Khare to Anand Mahindra elicited no response. This bust the myth that the Big Man acts upon customer complaints. The acknowledgement for the Twitter message itself came the next day!







One of the best cars one can own is my Scorpio - but I wish like mobile number portability, I could switch over to another operator - not M&M!!! If I had a choice, I would buy my Scorpio all over again - nothing else will do! The biggest myth that was bust during this episode was of Anand Mahindra personally acting upon Twitter messages is all hog wash. We never got any response from his office, that removes one of the criteria that I have quoted often as a strong reason to buy a M&M (i.e. the serious engagement of top management with customers' problems).

[anupmathur]

Gosh, HVK, what a harrowing tale!
I think this completely vindicates my post at the top of this page.

It is becoming a struggle to get to the workshop floor at Sri Durga, Delhi. They invoke 'security'! Just a lame excuse to prevent the customer from seeing incompetents at work? Though I would say that they do have some sharp mechanics, but you should know the ones, else God save your car!

[Styler]

Originally Posted by hvkumar

Reason: a leaking engine oil pipe with 2 nuts - which ruptured throwing out 12 litres of engine oil (2 full tank fillings) avoiding engine seizure just about.... and no, you won't get this pipe anywhere else!

This is the pipe that is the subject-matter of the discussion:

This is scary. I am just thinking, what if this happens in or around places which do not have Mahindra parts available close by - Leh / Spiti.

HVK Sir, do you think we should get this oil pipe replaced as a preventive maintenance thing ?

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Gosh, HVK, what a harrowing tale!
I think this completely vindicates my post at the top of this page.

It is becoming a struggle to get to the workshop floor at Sri Durga, Delhi. They invoke 'security'! Just a lame excuse to prevent the customer from seeing incompetents at work? Though I would say that they do have some sharp mechanics, but you should know the ones, else God save your car!

I like Udupi restaurants who invite you to visit their kitchen. Perhaps M&M should take a cue form this simple signboard that hangs outside the simplest of eateries across India.

The sheer arrogance of M&M ASC folks is indescribable. They treat customers either like paid-drivers (chauffeurs) or as idiotic-owners. It is just a cloak to hid either incompetence and ineptness in organising work on the workshop floor and tardiness in completing even the simplest of tasks. The longer they keep the car inside - that is their motto, it seems.

Originally Posted by Styler

This is scary. I am just thinking, what if this happens in or around places which do not have Mahindra parts available close by - Leh / Spiti.

HVK Sir, do you think we should get this oil pipe replaced as a preventive maintenance thing ?

No, Styler, the breakage is a long-term thing, more out of metal fatigue. I don't think a preventive maintenance measure is warranted. There are so many such pipes - and you cannot end up changing all of them. It is like I have already taken 2 chassis component breakages - you cannot replace the chassis as a preventive maintenance measure.

I find Bombay is the worst place to get parts - and Khrome Auto in Bangalore the best - and I found some parts I do not find in Bombay was available in Leh!!

[m_upreti]

Off late there have been some minor issues with my Scorpio

1. Engine Check Light - Local garage scanned and found it to be related to some wiring issue related to the Turbo. But since the car is running perfectly (was able to take it up to reasonably high speeds at night on a lonely stretch) so I have not tried getting this resolved as it would mean a trip to the A.S.S and in the process of rectifying this I am not sure what additional issues they will create.

2. Leaking Roof Mumbai rains have started and the roof is leaking from the antenna. Though I packed the sides with MSeal it is not stopping, so once the rain lets up I will have to pack the entire antenna housing with MSeal.

3. Security System The siren conked off, but I am ok to be without it. The auto locking keeps on behaving as it has a life of its own. Every few weeks I have to make the system "learn" the auto locking by using the key a few times and then it works automatically.

4. Cruise Control Button The + button came off, the plastic hinge broken. The replacement would cost a 1000 bucks and a trip to the A.S.S. as the panel is not available outside. So I have fixed it with Feviquick as anyways the cruise control is not being used and if required the Set button is working.

5. ICE The OEM Nippon ICE is dead completely so replaced it with a JVC media player costing about 4K. Much better sound quality then the original one.

6th year running for the car, so thinking of a change but waiting for the market to spill out something affordable and durable. Any inputs (only affordable SUV's).

Originally Posted by hvkumar

The sheer arrogance of M&M ASC folks is indescribable. They treat customers either like paid-drivers (chauffeurs) or as idiotic-owners. It is just a cloak to hid either incompetence and ineptness in organising work on the workshop floor and tardiness in completing even the simplest of tasks. The longer they keep the car inside - that is their motto, it seems.

Absolutely agree with you HVK, the M&M workshops are typically incompetent including the company owned ones. I had enough of this experience in the first year of ownership of my Scorpio.

Touch wood there have been no major issues since so I have tried to be away from these so called A.S.S's (and it would be a dishonour to the humble hardworking animal which has nothing to do with M&M) and am utilising the services of a trusted local garage for minor stuff.

[c.sridhar]

This is really pathetic.....makes it tough to own a car in India and expect seamless service from the ASCs...all the marketing smooth talk of the dealers at the point of purchase is waste of time...they just want to sell not bothered about customers/owners post that. Wake up Indian auto industry management gurus...address this asap...

[AarEmm]

Originally Posted by Styler

My Scorpio is more than 10 years old but I still love it more than my 2008 Camry Automatic.
I did think of selling it off and buying a new vehicle, but it is a really simple vehicle to maintain with no ECU and no Engine Check light at all. A mechanic at the Mahindra Workshop in Leh who is a friend told me - Sir this is the best vehicle for you as you drive to such far away places. The new generation Scorpio's have too many niggles and problems. Clutch Cylinders failing before 50K kms, Engine Check light coming on at high altitudes. Starting problems at high altitude.

So the day there is an issue with my Scorpio which cannot be fixed, I will sell it and buy a new Vehicle. Now what will be the next vehicle is another difficult decision.

Styler.

Originally Posted by hvkumar

Yes, the old-gen Scorpio (the 2.6 Turbo) is a fantastic vehicle. Mine is now 3.85 lakhs kms old and sounds and behaves like a 3-month old. All vital statistics are good, although old-age problems do surface every now and then.

I am totally in agreement with what Styler and HV Kumar have mentioned above. I too am an owner of old-gen Scorpio (2.6 Turbo) - June 2004 model with 1.32 lakh kms and still not in favor of changing to an alternate vehicle. There are minor niggles once in a while which can be addressed if you have access to spare parts (like Sagar Motors, Gurgaon) and a good mechanic/garage (like Rakesh Motors, Gurgaon).

[dean5545]

Originally Posted by hvkumar

I find Bombay is the worst place to get parts - and Khrome Auto in Bangalore the best - and I found some parts I do not find in Bombay was available in Leh!!

Did you try Atlas motors in Bombay near installation galli and their other store near Regency Hotel andheri (east). They keep all the parts atleast for the Thar, MM550, Bolero and I remember them keeping parts for Scorpio too. Let me know if you want the contact details as I will have to take it from a friend.

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by dean5545

Did you try Atlas motors in Bombay near installation galli and their other store near Regency Hotel andheri (east). They keep all the parts atleast for the Thar, MM550, Bolero and I remember them keeping parts for Scorpio too. Let me know if you want the contact details as I will have to take it from a friend.

People like Atlas & Shetty Motors - these are the ones who stock Scorpio parts in Bombay - are living in some medieval age. They do not know that modern mankind has invented things like Part Numbers for vehicle components - they inisist on seeing the "sample" - meaning I have to take out the part and take it to them before the high & mighty there deign to sell a part across the counter....

Honestly, I think it is a better idea to go shop for parts in the used parts bazaar in Kurla - there is a shop called Jan seva who stocks most parts of the Scorpio. Such is the state of affairs of India's large car company which is with you "hamesha". Moreover, I would trust buying the used car parts from Kurla than the M&M-authorised dealers

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by c.sridhar

.... Wake up Indian auto industry management gurus...address this asap...

If they haven't woken up in three decades they are obviously in a prolonged coma! They'll get wiped out like Hindustan Motors (Ambassador) and most others in the manufacturing sector in our great nation.
It takes a foreigner to understand what the Indian customer desires!