[desiaztec]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

These guys are talking crap!
The problem is with the master cylinder and/or the vacuum unit.

Wow, thanks for the prompt reply Anup. But tell me who do I consult now. Folks at Mahindra corp. have the same thing to say as those at Koncept Mahindra; Faulty ABS unit. My car is under warranty for the next 7 days to be precise. How and where should I proceed?

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by desiaztec

... How and where should I proceed?

Sorry I cannot help you there!
I am quite disenchanted with M&M myself.

It is a very very remote possibility that the ABS unit can make the brake pedal go all the way down.
As a rule the first things to be checked are the master cylinder and the vacuum pump/unit.

Alas, we all learn the hard way that it doesn't pay to be Indian and buy Indian!
A service experience with M&M is always an ordeal. They cannot get better, only worse, exactly like the quality of their cars! Lip service is all that Indians are good at.

[desiaztec]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Sorry I cannot help you there!
I am quite disenchanted with M&M myself.

It is a very very remote possibility that the ABS unit can make the brake pedal go all the way down.

As a rule the first things to be checked are the master cylinder and the vacuum pump/unit.....
....... They cannot get better, only worse, exactly like the quality of their cars! Lip service is all that Indians are good at.

Its alright Anup, I can however point this out to the service adviser.

What do the other experienced fellows have to say about this problem, HVK, tsk1979, Guderian, Devdath, gd and others??

P.S. Few lines from the quote above have been omitted for the sake of brevity.

[agbenny]

Originally Posted by desiaztec

Hola Folks, I'm happy to be a part of this esteemed community. My first post and I started complaining already. Peace guys, its regarding my Mahindra Scorpio mHawk Sle 2010 which brings to this thread.

Scorpio mHawk SLE was due for service. Exactly a day before I was supposed to give it in for service, I noticed the brakes not performing the way its supposed to. To make you understand better, high speed braking is fine, ABS is also functioning properly as I had tested it on an empty stretch. The problem occurs when I'm at a dead slow speed. Now during extreme bumper to bumper traffic, while hitting the brake pedal, it gives me a very spongy feel and the pedal travels almost all the way down to the floor. In a nutshell, performance of brakes during slow speeds has been affected.

The following day my car was given for service at Koncept Mahindra, Okhla, New Delhi. Got all the fluids changed, tuning, balancing, alignment and the works all done to my satisfaction level. However, they could not rectify this braking issue. Brake pads they say are fine, fluid has been topped up. And later they said poor braking "COULD" be due to faulty ABS which I fail to understand. Tried to make them understand the functionality of ABS but they said the problem could be due to fault in the ABS unit. Are these folks right when saying poor braking could be due to faulty ABS unit? Guys, I need you to pour in your suggestions, recommendations for a good mechanic. I'm not able to use my Scorpio the way I used until few days back. Have been trying to get valuable suggestions from people online and offline both but no luck as yet.

Also, they handed over a bill of Rs. 11810/= after discounts. Damn, maintaining a Mahindra is expensive. All this for a 30,000Km service. My front right suspension's ball joints gave way, bushes in the rear suspension too, wasn't it too early?

P.S. All of the above has been mentioned in another automotive forum by myself however with a different handle so kindly do not assume this to be plagiarism or a spam. I'm in need of urgent help friends.

I had a very similar issue about 1.5 years ago. It was a complete break failure happened twice, But after an engine restart it worked as usual. However, I didn't want to take chances, though no one was able to reproduce the issue during test drives made at an isolated place.

I discussed with friends in team-bhp in this thread too (sorry unable find the link), finally it went to replacing the ABS, A$$ explained the issue could most probably arise there. I believe the fix was made after an ABS replacement, fortunately, my car was still under warranty, it came unbilled after the fix.

Like you, it was a wonder to me too, I still do not understand what an ABS replacement could have done.

Probably some experts explain.

[desiaztec]

Originally Posted by agbenny

I had a very similar issue about 1.5 years ago. It was a complete break failure happened twice, But after an engine restart it worked as usual. However, I didn't want to take chances, though no one was able to reproduce the issue during test drives made at an isolated place.

I discussed with friends in team-bhp in this thread too (sorry unable find the link), finally it went to replacing the ABS, A$$ explained the issue could most probably arise there. I believe the fix was made after an ABS replacement, fortunately, my car was still under warranty, it came unbilled after the fix.

Like you, it was a wonder to me too, I still do not understand what an ABS replacement could have done.

Probably some experts explain.

agbenny, Im still worried as I have not been able find a solution and more so because my 3rd year extended warranty expires on 7th october and also that the ABS unit is not covered under extended warranty and costs Rs. 35000 as conveyed by the SA. In a nutshell, the situation is messed up.

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by desiaztec

Its alright Anup, I can however point this out to the service adviser.

What do the other experienced fellows have to say about this problem, HVK, tsk1979, Guderian, Devdath, gd and others??

P.S. Few lines from the quote above have been omitted for the sake of brevity.

Hi desiaztec,
Get the brake master cylinder unit checked up. Are you loosing any brake oil ? Next check the area around the tyres at the rear esp and check whether you see any oil traces as such. Have the brake slave cylinders checked.
If all these are OK then have the brake booster and vacuum system checked.
As per me too it can't be anything to do with the ABS system.
Also get a second opinion from another ASC of M&M in Delhi.
They must be pushing it towards ABS as it not covered by extended warranty - they'll probably change some part of the brake assembly like the master cylinder and state that they have replaced the ABS system and charge you for it or some mumbo jumbo like that...
Good luck !

[desiaztec]

Heads up folks,

I got in touch with one Mahesh Yadav (customer care manager) and he asked me to visit the workshop and said everything would be taken care of. I was like yeah if I'm paying > Rs. 30000/-, everything better be taken care of.

It was yesterday that I reached Koncept Mahindra at 930am. The issue as per the ASC guys was with the ABS, and after not finding a concrete solution to my problems, I thought I should give this a try. The technicians got started after an hour, changed the ABS unit, brakes were bled and the system tuned using their laptop. Meanwhile I was pampered with umpteen number of black tea and lunch, gratis.

It took them nearly 6 hours to get the entire job done. I took a test drive and voila, the brake issue had been rectified. With a sigh of relief I thanked the technicians but also asked as to what the fault in the ABS unit was and why would a faulty ABS unit hamper brake performance under normal situations?

He couldn't give me a satisfactory answer, and said ABS unit is an electronic device, it could malfunction. But then I don't see any power terminals on it. Confused!

Further, he said that the oil in the entire line is routed through the ABS unit, so if the unit goes faulty, it would hamper brake performance. All this sounded nonsensical to me. The technician however told me he has done similar jobs in other Scorpios too, indicating that there is actually a problem the ABS unit of Scorpios, although its not too often that such problems are experienced by customers.

Another interesting thing I got to know is that the newer Scorpio mHawks Sle and Vlx come equipped with a 4 channel ABS unit, unlike mine a 2010 production model that came with a 3 channel ABS unit.

The problem had been rectified, and the brakes were back to normal functioning. It was no point arguing just to enlighten myself.

Words of appreciation to Mahesh Yadav for getting the ABS unit fitted FOC under a goodwill gesture. My SA was charging me Rs. 430 approximately for the brake fluid which too was eventually waived off by Mahesh.

Service by technicians and executives has been up to mark, but I'l be a little apprehensive in buying another Mahindra in the near future. I pray the design and R&D team to come up with reliable products in the future.

Thanks for the suggestions anupmathur, agbenny, and Guderian.

[Aroy]

When you think about it, ABS has to be connected in the brake circuit, else how will it pulse the brakes? Further for 4 channel ABS each wheel will be having its dedicated line unlike in non ABS versions where all the lines are interconnected, except where there is a dual circuit system.

[Bhargava_sr]

Can anyone suggest if Castrol Magnatec Diesel Engine Oil is suitable for Mhawk Engines. (I have a 2012 Model Sle Mhawk)

According to the Castrol Website below is the compatible specification
Viscometric: SAE 15W - 40
Specification: API SN/ CF, ACEA A3/B3, ACEA A3/B4

Does anyone of us have tried this, if yes may I know hos is the performance ?

[spkingsley]

Originally Posted by Bhargava_sr

Can anyone suggest if Castrol Magnatec Diesel Engine Oil is suitable for Mhawk Engines. (I have a 2012 Model Sle Mhawk) According to the Castrol Website below is the compatible specification Viscometric: SAE 15W - 40 Specification: API SN/ CF, ACEA A3/B3, ACEA A3/B4 Does anyone of us have tried this, if yes may I know hos is the performance ?

The recommended Maximile FEO oil is rated at API CH grade, 2 steps above the CF grade of this oil.

[duke]

I'm taking a Scorpio VLX AT (pre owned) .... I'm looking for guidance on the issues that AT model has and what is it that I should be prepared for.

[hvkumar]

Aug 13, 2011:

I was driving to Delhi from Bombay & approaching Kishangarh, I had to brake very hard to avoid another car which came in suddenly from the right at a small break in the divider. I was at 120 kmph+ speeds & I had to brake to under 40 kmp in less than 100 metres or so, the vehicle had to be swerved totally to the left shoulder to avoid the other car. This was during a hot day, after driving full day from Bombay.

Next day, I had to replace the right brake front disc which was totally shaven, and there was nothing left of the brake pads either. It looked as though the disc had been cut through due to what appeared to be a levelling issue, meaning the brake pad was not aligned with the disc, and kept gouging into the disc. I thought the calliper pin must have had play, so I changed the calliper pins, disc & brake pads.

Dec 26, 2012:

I was driving from Bombay to Bangalore & beyond Davangere, I had to brake very very hard to avoid another car which decided to cut in from the right & overtake me. I was doing an easy 100 kmph, but the braking had to be done in <50 mtrs else I would have gone & pulverised the other car.

1 week later, I visited a garage in Trivandrum & found a similar situation – the brake pads did not even have the base plate left, the left side front disc was gone. The brake pads were replaced just before the trip and there was no way they could have got worn out within 5,000 kms.

I never saw a pattern in the above 2 episodes, but a few days ago someone vaguely mentioned that in a sudden braking situation like the 2 described above, since the discs & brake pads are in full heat (since I had been driving for long distances), there is something like a “fusion” effect – meaning that since the disc is very hot, there is a “sticky” effect whereby the brake pad gets super-heated (along with the already hot disc) when I suddenly slammed the brakes & got “welded” onto the disc, causing undulation in the disc & thereby a permanent wave in the disc (which anyway has lots of grooves due to constant abrasion).

And now it is Oct 1, 2013:

It happened again! Less than 10 months after it last happened.....

Last week, I had to replace the front wheel disc again after it got abruptly worn out during a long drive.

Brake pads & wheel discs were perfect when I started off from Bombay, but I had to do a sudden emergency braking to avoid a truant mobiker which resulted in my screaming to a halt from some 100+ kmph in a few seconds. Everything was fine immediately thereafter, but in the next 1,000 kms or so, the disc & pads got won out totally. There were no brake pads left at the end of it & the disc was gouged out so badly that it was only marginally better than last time.

I also lost the wheel bearings, this presumably due to a leak in the hub grease since the hot grease forced its way out of the hub cap – in the same wheel which saw the disc failure. Now, are these 2 connected in some way? I did not see any grease in the wheel disc itself but I suspect that the brake pads took some of it – could that be the cause for the disc failure? Bearings were undoubtedly lost due to the overheating once the grease cover came down.

Here are the photos.

[hvkumar]

A pleasant experience with M&M ASC (an aberration, you think?), but this time outside India - in Nepal.

Last fortnight, I had to get my wheel disc/ brake pad/ bearing repairs done during my drive to Nepal & after diagnosing wheel disc wear, I checked out online the facilities in Nepal & found a service centre just 3 kms from my hotel in Kathmandu.

Incidentally, M&M is not an uncommon vehicle in Nepal, although I found most of them to be Boleros with a smattering of Scorpios & even less XUV500s in a market dominated by Toyota Hiluxes & Hiaces.

Agni runs many dealerships & service centres in Nepal & I reached their Balaju Auto Works at 930 am 30 minutes before scheduled opening time (without appointment of course) and made my way in to meet Mr Kishan Gurung, Service Advisor, who was a Mr Courteous & Mr Helpful combo.

My SCorpio was rolled in & jacked up & even before the job card could be prepared & stores checked for availability of parts, the assigned mechanic was removing the tyres & checking my hypotheses that the wheel disc had gone - which it had!

Despite that my model of Scorpio (pre-crde, pre-2005) is not to be seen anywhere in Nepal, the stores had the wheel disc in stock & the de-greasing of the wheel hub assembly showed that 2 of the wheel bearings were also not OK. The mechanic also uncovered the bad workmanship of previous mechanics - wrong-sized nuts in at least 3 places - and also found that one of the wheel nuts (the ones fastening the hub & the wheel disc) was broken off, necessitating the "weld head" technique to unscrew it out.

Meticulous worker. Single-handedly, he changed the wheel disc, brake pads, bearings, greased the hub, etc and the car was ready at 1 pm sharp on the gong of the lunch break. Billing in 5 minutes with lots of help on currency issues. No credit card though.

Contrast this with India - especially at my local dealerships in Thane/ Bombay region - and they would not have had the parts in stock, they would have taken their own sweet time to start & close the job.

On my request, they gave me a neat print out of 25 service centres across Nepal - in every major road corridor in this tiny country, much higher density than what you would get in India - and I was off.

Thank you, Agni, BAW, Kishan & Sunil (mechanic)!

[KkVaidya]

Originally Posted by hvkumar

I never saw a pattern in the above 2 episodes, but a few days ago someone vaguely mentioned that in a sudden braking situation like the 2 described above, since the discs & brake pads are in full heat (since I had been driving for long distances), there is something like a “fusion” effect – meaning that since the disc is very hot, there is a “sticky” effect whereby the brake pad gets super-heated (along with the already hot disc) when I suddenly slammed the brakes & got “welded” onto the disc, causing undulation in the disc & thereby a permanent wave in the disc (which anyway has lots of grooves due to constant abrasion).

Driving for long distance in hot climates will NOT heat up the discs & pads. In fact, they will get good 'air cooling'. It is only under hard braking that it will heat up - and hard braking like you did will surely make them super hot but the moment you take your feet off the pedal, natural cooling starts.

[m_upreti]

Hi, need help from the gurus.

Due to change in priorities I think I will be retaining my Scorpio for another couple of years.

1. The vehicle is up for 30 K servicing, need to know what all I should be going in for and how mush charges should I expect (I will be going to the A.S.S.).

2. I have the following minor issues:

a. Khat sound from the clutch every time I press it, persists during both gear change and without gear change.

b. Brakes seem to have become spongy (oil seems to be proper)

b. The ride has been come extremely bumpy, could it be the engine & suspension mounts.

c. All the doors are creaking

d. The driver side window movement is not smooth and makes sound (partially on account of the beading being torn due to incorrect fitting during the replacement of the winder assembly)

e. The ICE does not play the USB / SD card (from day 1), the CD play also depends on the mood of the vehicle, it plays at times and at times dosen't.

Breakages:

a. One horn seems to have gone kaput, though it sounds intermittently, I checked the wiring which seems to be fine.

b. Antenna is broken (courtesy the kid and friends climbing on the roof)