[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

^^ This is indeed shocking. You had replaced everything including CP, pressure plate and CRB IIRC, before you left.

Check the manufacturing date on the bearing if it's still legible (not likely given the kind of abrasion shown in your pic).

Abrasion marks on the pressure plate fingers appears to be one-sided. Poor alignment and fitment when the job was carried out? The pressure plate fingers were apparently not being released completely, resulting in clutch slippage.

The side wall of the bearing says:
TEXSPIN TX71MC UMOH.

I do not see any other legend written anywhere on the CRB.

The general observation was that the CRB had soft metal - if so, incorrect specs or improper heat treatment - and the metal on its surface should not have been "carved" out on contact with the Pressure Plate.

Improper Fitment? The grooves are even, and I never had any problems with engaging gears or in revs/ acceleration. Remember that the Scorpio climbed up effortlessly on every gradient - and some of the gradients on Sach Pass and Ladakh are really steep, rocky and mean - with the clutch pedal totally released and the accelerator at hardly 10-25% pressure.

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

@HVK: Did the Pathankot dealer offer warranty on the part or did you have to pay for the whole clutch kit again? I remember M&M offers 6 month warranty on spare parts.

I also feel you need to raise a stink about this to the senior guys in M&M.

Cheers

I paid in full for the clutch parts I changed at Pathankot. Please remember that I was in the midst of a long arduous drive back from Ladakh and I have neither the time nor the patience for discussions and parleying on warranty issues.

Nothing about M&M and its ASCs surprises me any more. As you know, this is not the first time I have had problems with M&M servicing and use of bad parts, and it has become standard stuff with this "Indian" company which we are supposed to be proud of!!!

BTW, in case I did not mention it before, I also broke 3 more leaf springs during this Ladakh trip - bringing my total count of broken leaf springs in a lifetime of my Scorpio to 20+ - should I be applying for a Limca record - or Guinness?

[ramkya1]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

^^ This is indeed shocking. You had replaced everything including CP, pressure plate and CRB IIRC, before you left.

Check the manufacturing date on the bearing if it's still legible (not likely given the kind of abrasion shown in your pic).

Abrasion marks on the pressure plate fingers appears to be one-sided. Poor alignment and fitment when the job was carried out? The pressure plate fingers were apparently not being released completely, resulting in clutch slippage.

I agree, this is shocking. 2nd hand parts / 2nd quality parts are very much possible with ASC; when I did the accident repair at Bhuj for my CRDe they had put duplicate engine foundations and charged orginal price, which I found out later in Ahmedabad. As I had signed off the bill for the insurance claim, fighting with them would have been a waste of time and the item was not too expensive.

From the pictures and explanations I'd bet my bottom dollar the CRB is duplicate.

If you don't know the mechanics too well or not keep them well oiled, you're sure to get shagged at the ASC. On major repairs I take leave and stand in the pit with them to ensure things go on track. It's a pain but with the ASC's you need to watch out with skinned eyes.

After I changed my entire cluth assembly I got the original parts back and had kept it in my car park in the basement; the cleaning guys saw it and was after me to sell it to them for 3K, I asked them where they would sell, said the workshops or kabadi guys would pay well; I dumped it the next day in Sabarmati river to ensure it will not come back to me or friends through the ASC
--Ramky
======

[Fauji]

This is indeed shocking to see M&M not being bothered about providing genuine parts. It is more shocking to look at their attitude.
The question is, how do we make sure that the spare parts fitted by dealers are genuine or not? This is putting people's life at risk. We should take this up collectively with M&M as it is a serious issue which can not be brushed under.

[Styler]

Hi HVK,

This is really shocking. Please keep us updated on what M&M have to say about this.
My Scorpio has done about 85,000 kms now, and I was thinking of getting the Clutch Assembly replaced in the near future. This will be an eye opener. I wonder what precautions we can take to ensure we are also not ripped off with counterfeit and substandard parts.

Styler

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by Fauji

This is indeed shocking to see M&M not being bothered about providing genuine parts. It is more shocking to look at their attitude.
The question is, how do we make sure that the spare parts fitted by dealers are genuine or not? This is putting people's life at risk. We should take this up collectively with M&M as it is a serious issue which can not be brushed under.

I have had several instances of this callousness from M&M ASCs.

The first time I changed my clutch plate (long before its life ended, as a preventive maintenance measure), they did not have a CRB - fitted a CRB which they had changed under warranty for someone else - and the CP failed prematurely 50,000 kms later.

The first time I cambered the leaf springs, they did not put in the bushes resulting in breakage of 5 leaf springs at the same time while I was speeding on the Pune-Nagar highway, a situation that could have resulted in fatal consequences.

When the changed the main fan belt - at my insistence, of course - at around 75,000 kms, they insisted that the pulley bearings are OK, but 20,000 kms later they failed and I almost escaped a major mishap when the brakes, cooling system and alternator simultaneously stopped working when the fan belt jumped off the seized pulley!

I guess I can write a novel on all these problems I have faced at the hands of ASCs, most of it at Global Gallarie, Thane. It is not easy being an activist and go on fighting car companies all the time and needless to say, I have suffered a lot thanks to such poor service.

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by Styler

Hi HVK,

This is really shocking. Please keep us updated on what M&M have to say about this.
My Scorpio has done about 85,000 kms now, and I was thinking of getting the Clutch Assembly replaced in the near future. This will be an eye opener. I wonder what precautions we can take to ensure we are also not ripped off with counterfeit and substandard parts.

Styler

A M&M person contacted me sometime ago - thanks to the intervention by our member m.khanna and I am awaiting their advice on further course of action. I personally supervise work at the ASC, but if spurious or used parts are fitted onto your car, one can never know. It is a big risk one takes all the time. The least one can do is to insist that each replaced part is returned to you so that at least that goes out of circulation. Further, you also know that the part has actually been changed.

[Styler]

Hi HVK,

At least you can personally oversee the repairs. Here in Delhi at Bhasin Motors or Sri Durga the 2 Authorized Mahindra Service Centers they do not allow customers to overlook the repairs or to even stand near the repair bays.

Styler

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by Styler

Hi HVK,

At least you can personally oversee the repairs. Here in Delhi at Bhasin Motors or Sri Durga the 2 Authorized Mahindra Service Centers they do not allow customers to overlook the repairs or to even stand near the repair bays.

Styler

I am surprised that ASCs still stick to such protocols of not allowing customers inside workshop floors. After all, it is just a few enthusiasts who really want to spend time with the vehicle, most owners-drivers prefer to drop it and go about their own business or sit in AC lounges and watch TV!

Global Gallarie has an open policy. The one occasion I went to the so-called M&M-owned NBS International in Bombay, I had a tiff with them on this matter and have never visited them ever since (the loss is definitely not mine!). I have been to ASCs all over the country - including those like TVS who observe protocols well - but have never faced any problems in Trivandrum, Jaipur, Guwahati, Bangalore or Leh. Bhasin Delhi needs some fresh lessons in customer care and relationship building, I guess.

[akaush]

HVK,
Why don't you also write about why your Disc issue was not completely resolved in Chandigarh and you had trouble the next morning in Rampur.

Its the same with Classic Honda showroom in Faridabad. (although I dont have many complaints yet). Sometimes I have requested them to put synthetic engine oil in front of my eyes, however they have never really allowed me to see that. Always ready with a good answer.
1. We will get the vehicle upstairs and change the oil.
2. Sorry Sir, worker didn't knew, he changed the oil.
3. Sorry, Customers are not allowed beyond the lounge area.

I guess all ASC's love not to be seen by customers doing their jobs, so that their screwups are not very evident.

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by hvkumar

You may recall that I had changed the Clutch Plate assembly in my Scorpio last month in preparation for my Ladakh trip.
Let me give you the shocking update now!

HVK,
Going by the marks on the pressure plate and bearing - appears like a case of the CRB getting jammed, at times. And therefore the outer ring also rotating along with the inner ring when it should have been be standing still when pressed against the pressure plate fingers. Going by your experience looks as though the jamming was only happening occasionally - for if it was very badly jammed and perpetually rubbing against the PP then a worse disaster could have been round the bend.
Could be that the ball bearings or the needle bearings inside the CRB were damaged due to poor quality or improper fitting.
Do let us know the final diagnosis from M&M !

[Rajesh1968]

Hi Kumar Sir,

I did have issues with ASCs in Bangalore, had a private mechanic who did my work and the vehicle was in top condition till I did a fatal mistake of testing Carnation Auto with my Scorpio DX 2.6, never will I ever trust them.

In July 2011, I gave my vehicle, they did all the changes, Clutch, Brake Pads, Filters and Suspension Overhaul, they charged me 38K, it was not the cost but the performance that was disappointing, took it back to them, but no improvement.

In preparation for my GQ in a ,months' time, the vehicle which has been with my mechanic, that is just 3K since Carnation did the service, I have tears in my eyes when I see that inadequate greasing, Diesel Filter a local one used than the one premium one charged for, brake pads refitted, not new ones as mentioned in the bill, oil of poor quality than what was mentioned. I also had an issue, the Joint Star was to be replaced, checked with M&M ASC, they don't sell spare parts, but would do so only if we paid for Labour too( which was unofficially mentioned) not sure if this a Secret Defence related spare part, checked with Carnation, they too mentioned the same, but had an insider in ASC who mentioned that they too buy the spares from a certain shop in Bangalore, when they do not have things in stock, so much for the genuineness of the M&M spares.

I fully agree with Kumar and others that M&M Scorpio is really good, if only they had a responsible and genuine service centers.

[ramkya1]

Originally Posted by Rajesh1968

Hi Kumar Sir,

I did have issues with ASCs in Bangalore, .................................. I also had an issue, the Joint Star was to be replaced, checked with M&M ASC, they don't sell spare parts, but would do so only if we paid for Labour too( which was unofficially mentioned) not sure if this a Secret Defence related spare part, checked with Carnation, they too mentioned the same, but had an insider in ASC who mentioned that they too buy the spares from a certain shop in Bangalore, when they do not have things in stock, so much for the genuineness of the M&M spares.

I fully agree with Kumar and others that M&M Scorpio is really good, if only they had a responsible and genuine service centers.

They have created an awesome machine, one of the best in the market for that price, but not the infra to support it properly. If they do that too, most of the SUV's in and around the range would get blown sky high, what a shame!!!!

The ASC's have no code of conduct, sales force do not know the S of Selling, C of the CRM, Q of quality service, C of Customer Satisfaction, T of training from what I have seen and heard. If only they can whip their ASC's into line, they can have us eating from their palms with open purse strings / cheques, wonder why someone up there do not see the road ahead or big picture.

There's something very wrong in the whole structure of the ASC; the sales force are not paid enough / low quality of people selected too / high people turnover, the Service Advisers lament about payment and delayed payments and don't seem to be attached to M&M or ASC, everyone is going through the motions but the bonding is missing. This is so different in contrast to Hundai, Ford or Maturi I have experienced!!!

I escape the rape because of a couple of friendly Service Advisers who are motivated to take care of my truck. Just my take, would be interesting to hear other views.

--Ramky
=====

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by Guderian

HVK,
Going by the marks on the pressure plate and bearing - appears like a case of the CRB getting jammed, at times. And therefore the outer ring also rotating along with the inner ring when it should have been be standing still when pressed against the pressure plate fingers. Going by your experience looks as though the jamming was only happening occasionally - for if it was very badly jammed and perpetually rubbing against the PP then a worse disaster could have been round the bend.
Could be that the ball bearings or the needle bearings inside the CRB were damaged due to poor quality or improper fitting.
Do let us know the final diagnosis from M&M !

Yes, that appears to have been the case, which is why the engine started racing occasionally in the higher gears (and also how I discovered something was wrong).

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by akaush

HVK,
Why don't you also write about why your Disc issue was not completely resolved in Chandigarh and you had trouble the next morning in Rampur.

The front disc problem!
Somewhere on the way from Bombay to Chandigarh, something went wrong with the calipers/brake pads on my front RHS disc and by the time I reached Panchkula (near Chandigarh), I could hear a rubbing noise from the disc (no significant effect on braking efficiency). Had the disc opened up and to my shock, the brake pads had got dislodged and completely worn out (nothing left actually!). The disc - can I one dare call it one? - was as good as finished, had less than a couple of inches or so metal left!! IT had worn out unevenly on the inside and it had to removed and thrown out.