[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

- What it sorely lacked for me was character and a sense of satisfaction one gets from driving a car.
- The engine+body structure didn’t feel as quiet as I remembered (could also be a change in my benchmarks).

- I hadn't mentioned it in my previous post since in my mind I expect it to be assumed.
That character comes from decades of concerted effort by a manufacturer to build the best car for a situation. This is iterated over multiple car models and certain traits are imbibed into their processes and show up in their vehicles.
This is very difficult to happen when a company's objective is to make a product, which happens to be a car, that has a large feature list and bling as its USP.
This product (car) would make absolute sense on the website or spec sheet but would feel disconnected in real world. IMHO this is what you felt if I may take the liberty of assumption.
It would be a sum of some good components which individually perform their functions well but the car wouldn't feel like one integrated unit.

Made me think that we expect certain character/traits when we buy a vehicle from say a Honda/Toyota/Maruti/Tata/Mahindra/VW etc. but what do we expect from a MG ?

- Seems like you've experienced the ageing concern I was worried about and that too in the very core areas. Signs of cheapening out where they shouldn't.
Not sure why but somehow I am not surprised.

Originally Posted by Poitive

- getting a vehicle which makes one feel uneasy enough to get occasional headaches and reach meetings in a poor frame of mind isn’t a wise decision.
- Further deterioration was is also a scare.

- That's a deal breaker in my books. A vehicle at that price point is supposed to be uplifting the mood not causing a headache.

- This has been a valid concern with TML vehicles and their service centers don't inspire a lot of confidence either.

Originally Posted by Poitive

- It would be tiring on days when one drives a hundred kms in the city/city-suburb runs. It would be bothersome even on a day to day basis if one had a busy tiring day.
- Go through the Compass thread thinking that the same complaints were coming for a Tata product and imagine what the perception of the product would be.
- A vehicle I had loved now seemed to be the poorest choice of the lot.
- When I look at the Meridian, it feels like a product which has been made forcefully, than something which was thoughtfully made from base.

- Another deal breaker for the same reason as the Harrier.

- Ditto, I don't recall if I posted on that or not but the same thought has crossed my mind.

- After the inital excitement wears off, reality strikes hard and makes you do a 180 but for the better IMO.

- Ditto again, some part of me was expecting something new but the practical side was expecting minimum cost elongated version.

Originally Posted by Poitive

- I can’t enter the passenger seat easily enough as reported earlier.
- I suppose it is something to do with the FSD (Frequency Sensing Dampers) not working as expected due some fine-tuning part. It is as if the damper is behaving as per a different surface.

- Not sure if this has been asked before but can't the height adjustable driver seat be installed ? Especially since this seems to work in almost other areas except the FSD.

- I have seen a review on DDS (with MotorOctane's XUV700) which mentioned it as a "noise" over bumps at 20-25kmph. Do check if its the same since I am just guessing.

Credits to Providers :

YouTube : DDS

PS : This reply was eventful. The first time I tried to post was last Friday but we had an internet blackout. Was busy elsewhere post that and when I had typed one again the phone fell and the screen was busted. This is the third attempt from an alternate phone

[Poitive]

MG Hector

Just thought I needed to clarify a few points on how I see the Hector, as my posts might have made it seem worse than what I really think about the car. It is just that it is build for a clientele a bit different from me. I really don't think it is a bad vehicle at all. Just that it is something I am not connecting to enough, from the driving experience aspect. That it more to do with how I presonally relate to cars, than a deficiency with the car as such.

Unlike most of the others, it didn't have obvious ergonomic issues. It was easy to drive. Had a fairly good ingress-egress height (H5) and door aperture. No issues with the floor lip or distance between the B-pillar and seat. Good sitting position and height. Most airy cabin of the lot. The diesel engine was good enough and more for most benchmarks (though not exciting like the Optra Magnum or the XUV700). The cabin was more slient than the Tata Twins and the Jeep Compass. For 4 people, it had the best space management. More legroom than cars bigger in size. There is much to appreciate about this one, and it just might be due to the role General Motors could have played in the alliance (they own 44% of the parent company).

Personally, I think they did mess up the front, which could have been much better and it was improved in the Plus model quite a bit (less chrome, greater grill height, better grill design etc). While they might have a lot of bling, it could be seen as an add-on to the car than a replacement for engineering. Many issues can be found with the other cars too - be it a Jeep, Kia, Tata or Mahindra.

About the proportions too, while they might look a bit odd but from a visual design perspective, they had to take a call on how much of the length to have within the cabin and how much for the hood. The hood might feel a tad small, but that is a part of what allows as much legroom in the second row. The width being a bit less than others also allows this to pass more easily between traffic, which is a boon for the city. At city speeds, it is also the plushest ride. The vertcal space management too is quote good - ample GC, in-cabin height, no transmission tunner hump. The height to width is a bit high, but they don't aim this to be sporty or an off roader, and for most would be an acceptable trade-off.

Overall, it does seem to be quite a well thought of car. Just without that extra 'X' one might expect from a car; an 'X' which often comes at the cost of some practicality. The Tata Twins and Jeep have them; but lack on other fronts. XUV700, perhaps has lesser, but has other exciting aspects; however it feels like an unfinished product.

For the price it sells at, for many buyers' needs it is the most well-rounded product. Just that it had major misses for my taste and the parts which were almost compensating for it too were found amply lacking, and as @shancz said - ageing concerns. Also, the future of Chinese companies such as MG in India being more in question.

It is like the head almost says "Hector is still your best bet", and the heart turns away not even wanting to listen to even allow being cajoled.

(PS: Another thing which has changed in the past few months. Past few years, a major part was being driven and me driving myself had reduced a lot. Was buying with that perspecive and the second row was very important. A few months down and reassessing things, and besides other things the "dil mangae more" of driving had made me think that I want to get back to nearly 100% driving myself, as has been almost forever. Have had work trips with 10-11 odd hours of driving, 4-5 hours of meetings, with just me and the driver on the trip, and I have had him sit on the passenger seat and driven it all myself - want to get back to that.)

Originally Posted by shancz

PS : This reply was eventful. The first time I tried to post was last Friday but we had an internet blackout. Was busy elsewhere post that and when I had typed one again the phone fell and the screen was busted. This is the third attempt from an alternate phone

Like you said earlier, some posts need more time and attention to write, so will reply to the other parts later, @shancz. I hope car usage too doesn't become contingent to internet coverage, with how they are increasingly becomnig network connected! Eventually, with autonomous cars, they well might be!! A pity that the screen was lost; hope it is up and running now; like an S-Cross

[shancz]

Came across this useful post by nerd1200 in the Scorpio N thread :

Originally Posted by nerd1200

Seat height adjust is missing for front passenger's seat. Stupid omission. Might become a deal breaker if your partner is about 5ft tall.

While it's considered a deal breaker for shorter folks, might be good news for you

[nerd1200]

Case in point: Notice the difference in seat height of the driver and passenger.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by nerd1200

Case in point: Notice the difference in seat height of the driver and passenger.

The picture is worth a thousand words
Thanks, you made it crystal clear and honestly quite surprised by it.

But at least Poitive should be happy.

[Poitive]

ScorpioN

Originally Posted by shancz

While it's considered a deal breaker for shorter folks, might be good news for you

Originally Posted by nerd1200

Case in point: Notice the difference in seat height of the driver and passenger.

Thanks mates, this is both surprising and of interest. There have been many posts to suggest that Mahindra does indeed read T-Bhp for feedback, and I wonder if they read my complaint about the passenger seat being too high . They seem to have swung the other way now.

The headroom over the front passenger seems to be about a foot! The visibility can't be good from such an eye-level. It is surprising to see this, after all the good talk about design in the presentation. Such things should should be difficult to get wrong, as there are numerous cabins and also anthropometric data available to figure such things out. It appears Mahindra messed up both times on different extremes.

Originally Posted by shancz

The picture is worth a thousand words
...
But at least Poitive should be happy.

It truly is. Thanks again @nerd1200 mate.
I, indeed, am happy. Had in mind to take the TD but was only half serious about it, but now am a lot more enthused. Have initiated the TD process with the SA and also the company. Will now try to take it ASAP and will report it here without delay.

Some observations, notes, and guesses about the ScorpioN

1. Finish: I expect only moderate finish, based on what I saw of the stitching etc in the pictures. From pictures, even the exterior seems only moderately done up. These opinions might easily change seeing it in physical form.
   .
2. Fuel Efficiency: A significantly lower FE than the XUV700 due to it being a bit heavier at about 1900kgs vs the 1742 to ~1800 kgs of the XUV700; worse aerodynamics (greater height and width, also A pillar is closer to vertical than the 700); it being a RWD vs the FWD of the 700; likely shorter gear ratios due to lesser torque and to aid a bit of off road (only a guess); more unsprung mass due to heavier suspension (double-wishbone), and also bigger tyres (this would hurt even more in stop and go city-traffic).
   
   The Diesel being detuned will go in favour of better FE though.
   .
3. Ingress-Egress: The A pillar being a bit more vertical would help people like me. Less of neck bending and wriggling into the car.
   .
4. Torque: For Diesel and Petrol MT both of which are 370Nm, Torque to weight ratio calculated at 1900kgs is ~195 Nm/Tonne. Hector and Harrier are about 207, Compass at 211 and XUV700 at about 233.
   
   The 195 vs 233Nm/tonne would likely feel significant while driving, unless the gear ratios are lower. If they are, it might further hit FE.
   .
5. Display etc: The bezel around the touchscreen is large, indicating that future variants will have a larger screen. Mahindra might pit this closer to the XUV700 in a post-chip-shortage facelift. The XUV700 might have an AX9 variant by then. I would also not be surprised with ADAS variants then.
   .
6. Steering: It was interesting to note that while Velu got into many details of the engineering aspect of other things, he spent only seconds on the steering and moved to the next bit.
   
   It is also a joke how the steering being soft is being promoted for a 'Sports' Utility Vehicle; steering feel be damned!
   
   Interestingly, two variants of the ScorpioN have a hydraulic steering! Both in diesel. Pitifully the lower end ones (Z2 and Z4), which is surprising as Hydraulic steerings are typically significantly more expensive to make than EPS. I don't really understand why Mahindra would give these models a hydraulic setup.
   .
7. Ease of Driving: It is likely to be very easy to drive for it's size; quite like how it is for the XUV700. I would not be surprised with ladies driving this and being pleasantly surprised. That is another market Mahindra, I think, will go for with this at the right stage. Now might take away from the macho image they seem to be going for.
   .
8. Alturas G4 link: The design of this one increasingly seems to have started with the Alturas G4 (Ssangyong Rexton G4 - Y400) and modifications made to make it cheaper to make and repair.
   1. Both have 81% high strength steel in the frame.
   2. Both have double-wishbone in the front (common for BoF), and a 5-link independent suspension in the rear.
   3. Most of all, the looks from front and side are very similar, except the glass area between the C Pillar and D pillar. The side creases too have a resemblance of the G4, as do the lights and front grill.
   4. The colour scheme of the interior is also similar, but that is quite the trend now, and many sport it. Likewise, there are many other visuals which have a resemblance, but can also be found on other vehicles.
   5. Both have similar sized sunroofs.
   6. Rear door etc:The rear has been completely changed, I suppose to accommodate the side opening door and consequent hinges.
      .
9. Rear: The side of the exterior not taken from the Alturas; and it shows. While the Alturas looks very proportional and coherent in it's visual appeal, the Rear of the ScorpioN seems like patchwork. Quite like it wasn't built for this car and somehow made to fit in, taking away from an otherwise handsome looking car. No wonder Mahindra kept it under wraps till it could. The least they could do is to make it less busy, to match the rest of the car.
   
   Incidentally, while on the road, it is the rear of a car which is seen the most.
   .
10. Ride and Handling:
    - Amongst the Body on Frame SUVs, the Ssangyong Rexton (Alturas) is meant to handle and feel a closer to a Unibody than many of the others.
    - I have a hunch that the ScorpioN too would be built that way (going by the high strength steel, 5-link suspension, FSD etc). I do expect it to handle well, but have a stiffer ride than the XUV700 - the bigger tyres just might do some magic though.
    - Especially if the ride is good, I would expect significant bodyroll. More likely moderate ride and moderate bodyroll. It is taller than XUV700, Hector, Harrier, Fortuner and even Alturas. Only a centimeter lesser than Gloster.
    - I really do not expect the ScorpioN to be as agile as the XUV700 (which was a delight for it's size).
    - It is more likely going to be well suited to highway cruising than zipping around town, which the XUV700 is likely to be better at.
    .
11. Repairs: I really don't think this one would be as easy to repair around the country as the Scorpio Classic; or be as cheap to; or as abuse friendly. I think they will keep the Classic catering to that market. This will slot between that and the XUV700. I guess over the next 5-7 years, Mahindra would equip and train it's service centres across the country well enough for it to be nearly as easy to repair as the Classic. This ability will also get transferred to local garages.

Let us see how it eventually pans out. Comparing the above guesses with the Test Drive experiences would be fun.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

- They seem to have swung the other way now.

- It is also a joke how the steering being soft is being promoted for a 'Sports' Utility Vehicle; steering feel be damned!

- Interestingly, two variants of the ScorpioN have a hydraulic steering! Both in diesel. Pitifully the lower end ones (Z2 and Z4),

- That's quite weird, I was thinking maybe the driver seat is set higher for the "commanding" driving position but even looking at the passenger in isolation it still seems quite low.

- This is something I have noticed in YouTube reviews that the "softness" of the steering is being touted as a parameter like GNCAP rating.

- This is news and along with the low passenger seating another thing that seems to defy logic.

Originally Posted by Poitive

- Alturas G4 link: The design of this one increasingly seems to have started with the Alturas G4 (Ssangyong Rexton G4 - Y400) and modifications made to make it cheaper to make and repair.

Now that you've mentioned it it's clear. I haven't looked much into the ScorpioN but the side profile always looked familiar.
Could be highly related to the G4 internally, not a bad thing in my books.

Originally Posted by Poitive

- Rear: the Rear of the ScorpioN seems like patchwork. Quite like it wasn't built for this car and somehow made to fit in, taking away from an otherwise handsome looking car.

Absolutely agree.
I had kept the passenger seat and the steering quirks aside thinking that Mahindra would know better than me but this is obvious. Can't find any reason why they went with this. The 3rd row seat arrangement and the resulting boot space raises some serious questions about the thought process behind such design decisions especially coming from Mahindra!
I was mightily impressed by how well executed the exterior design of the new Brezza is. The rear looks elegant, classy and complements the front and overall design perfectly.
Every time I look at it I think VW.

Originally Posted by Poitive

It is more likely going to be well suited to highway cruising than zipping around town, which the XUV700 is likely to be better at.

Agree, some reviews already said the same.
What was different from your assumption was that they said that the body roll was well controlled.
It looked like that too in the Zigwheels video with Kartikeya Singhee.

Do watch (Ride and Handling section) and I second the last line of the video
(Credits to Providers)

Zigwheels: ScorpioN

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by shancz

Hector
1. That character comes from decades of concerted effort by a manufacturer to build the best car for a situation. This is iterated over multiple car models and certain traits are imbibed into their processes and show up in their vehicles.

2. Seems like you've experienced the ageing concern I was worried about and that too in the very core areas. Signs of cheapening out where they shouldn't.

Harrier
3. That's a deal breaker in my books. A vehicle at that price point is supposed to be uplifting the mood not causing a headache.

4. This has been a valid concern with TML vehicles and their service centers don't inspire a lot of confidence either.

Compass
5. Another deal breaker for the same reason as the Harrier.

6. After the inital excitement wears off, reality strikes hard and makes you do a 180 but for the better IMO.

XUV700
7. Not sure if this has been asked before but can't the height adjustable driver seat be installed ? Especially since this seems to work in almost other areas except the FSD.

8a. I have seen a review on DDS (with MotorOctane's XUV700) which mentioned it as a "noise" over bumps at 20-25kmph. Do check if its the same since I am just guessing.

8b. Youtube Video
YouTube : DDS

While I kept making other posts from the mobile/tab, this one needed me to be on the comp and kept getting delayed. Our preference and tendency towards longer posts and proper replies has made progress slow as it often does.

Hector
1. As a general concept I agree, but also think that in consumer cars it is often overhyped. What comes into play is what a manufacturer's reputation is and what the client base who connects with them expects. This is further linked with the price they can sell certain products in. Maruti got a Kizashi and it didn't work, as for the Alturas G4 by Mahindra, whereas Fortuner sells at the price it does.

Car design seems to have an ever-increasing role of marketing and cost-accounting departments than of car designers. Just the nature of business and consumer-expectations. While I dislike it to the point of frustration, I don't blame them.

I don't think the Hector is really aimed at people looking for my kind of a driving experience, and that is a major reason for me finding that lack of character. Have expressed my general thoughts on the Hector in post above, as I didn't want to show it in bad light due to my personal preferences in a car. The non-product experience was not good though and made me question if it is a company I want to be with.

2. Yes, aging concerns. In Tata too; and Mahindra often gives company to Tata! Also the Jeep. Where is the world headed?

Harrier
3. True. Else I might have well been driving a Harrier by now. There is much to like in it, especially that steering I increasingly find people complain about. (In case you are surprised at the steering of the Harrier being appreciated, please check this post about HPS vs EPS, and also this one - you just might see their steering differently)

Just that there are no good enough options with my being fussy on top of what my ergonomic and anthropometric needs are - ones which were routine in the days of the Maruti 800 and are special now!

4. The service centre part I am less worried about as there are many in each city so one can spend some time to find a good one. It is often a matter of finding the right people in a service centre and building a good relationship with them. I was blessed in the case of the Optra Magnum (was taken care of by one person in the whole decade it was with me, and he cared for it like it was his own). I actually see Tata service as a plus point, as they with Maruti, Hyundai, and Mahindra have a whole lot of centres spread across a very large part of the country; unlike Jeep or even MG.

Compass
5. Yes; and accepting a headache on a 'premium' vehicle with premium upfront and repair costs, seems even more difficult. Between the two Tata Harrier/Safari makes more sense for me. At least I'd get a much bigger cabin and lower upkeep costs and an HPS.

6. True. I should thank MG for the delay, else I might already have been driving a Hector!

XUV700
7. Interesting thought, shancz! It might not work however, as the controls are on the right of the seat, which would go against the console if used as the passenger seat. Had it been normal times, it just might have been worth checking with the company if they were in the works for a LHD market and might have such a seat they could spare, but in the current situation of 1.5-2 years waiting, it seems like a waster of resources.

Other issues with the XUV are the steering and consequent sense of disconnect, the suspension sound, suspension roughness in some city-situations, potential niggles (but Tata is hardly better despite more years into the product cycle). Eventually a matter of which compromises one is willing to live with. Had we not been living in "socialist-India part 2" with crazy waiting lines, I would almost certainly have been in a vehicle even before I started this thread. With waiting imminent, one tends to get confused and over-analyze while waiting for things to mature (want to avoid specific details for personal reasons)

8a. I had reported the noise and strange suspension behaviour in the first TD report (page 1) way before it was popularly talked about. Can't say if they are reporting the same as one can't make that out from the video.

8b. 11:05 to 11:45 in the video, two very popular YouTube reviewers talk about suspension making noises over small rough patches and call it normal behaviour, further only talk in terms of masking the sound with speaker placement and music. Nothing about why the sound is there, or if it needs correction of the damage it might be causing, or it being a questionable design/implementation!

I take the 'views' of most of the YouTube video reviews with a pinch (or more) of salt and tend to look for what I can gain from seeing things such as headroom, ingress-egress, suspension/body movements, speedo and tachometer, etc. There are occasional exceptions of course - some about views, and some about the data they share (could be acceleration, braking, interior dimensions or more). Most anyway tend to be echoing popular views only reinforcing them in the popular sentiment and vocabulary of potential buyers across the board. Very few original thinking-and-observation based reviews around on YouTube.

Edit: Will reply to your last post later, shancz. Thanks for the interest you've shown in this crazy mind and emotion wrenching hunt, which seems to carry on forever! It tests my patience - my own patience with myself.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

While I kept making other posts from the mobile/tab, this one needed me to be on the comp and kept getting delayed.

Ditto, the feeling is mutual and definitely worth the learnings.

Originally Posted by Poitive

Hector
1. What comes into play is what a manufacturer's reputation is and what the client base who connects with them expects.

2. Where is the world headed?

1. Now that you've said it I do agree for it being overhyped in mass market cars and especially now when gizmos and bling sell better than sound basics and mechanicals.
The Hector seems to be an embodiment of this and to an extent the Korean twins since they started it. But like you said I can't blame them for doing their research right, taking risks and earning rewards.
The India 2.0 Skoda/VW cars and the complaints around their interior, fit-finish and quality clearly demonstrates the mismatch between the expectations and reality for that price point.

2. Towards the Japanese
I am coming across more and more "what car" posts on TBHP where a fuss-free ownership is one of the necessary points. Neither includes everyone nor does it reflect the market but just an observation.
You should definitely check out the HYRyder and the Grand Vitara (2022 Maruti Grand Vitara to debut on July 20 | Pre-bookings open)(20th July).

Originally Posted by Poitive

Harrier
3. There is much to like in it, especially that steering

Just that there are no good enough options with my being fussy on top of what my ergonomic and anthropometric needs are - ones which were routine in the days of the Maruti 800 and are special now!

3. Agree starting with the looks, highway manners, ambience. Interestingly I saw another ownership review on DDS where the owner mentioned the knee-console issue in the Safari, he said that since he got an automatic it wasn't much of an issue but if he had to take the manual he wouldn't get it. So TML have to really find a solution for this, I am not sure why/how did their test drivers/QC personnel didn't complain.
The video if interested :
Credits to Providers :

DDS

Originally Posted by Poitive

Compass
5. At least I'd get a much bigger cabin and lower upkeep costs and an HPS.

Agree, for a normal use-case the Harrier makes more sense to me too. The maintenance charges are atrocious, refer to the video above(17:53) where he cross-checked the service costs from the workshop.

Originally Posted by Poitive

XUV700
7. but in the current situation of 1.5-2 years waiting, it seems like a waster of resources.

8a. I had reported the noise and strange suspension behaviour in the first TD report (page 1) way before it was popularly talked about.

8b. 11:05 to 11:45 in the video, two very popular YouTube reviewers talk about suspension making noises over small rough patches and call it normal behaviour, further only talk in terms of masking the sound with speaker placement and music.

7. I meant the LHD seat since Mahindra exports too. Agree, the waiting time is the biggest issue for not pursuing the XUV700 at this point of time. In the video above there is also some talk on the dealers charging "extra" for a faster delivery.

8a. Yes, your TD experience was an eye-opener and only post that I started hearing about the "suspension noise" or in fact anything wrong with the XUV700.
In the video above (12:30) they too speak about the "suspension noise" and some "issue with the suspension" which gets dismissed as "noise". I am not sure if this is because the issue wasn't investigated enough or a deliberate wash over. Since they knew about the FSD I suspect the latter.

8b. Ditto, it was quite weird, I was expecting some more light to be thrown on the issue but they just threw water

Originally Posted by Poitive

I take the 'views' of most of the YouTube video reviews with a pinch (or more) of salt and tend to look for what I can gain from seeing things such as headroom, ingress-egress, suspension/body movements, speedo and tachometer, etc.

Absolutely, I only watch DDS for seating position, because at 6'4" he comes closest your frame.
IIRC someone(maybe FortNine on YouTube) had mentioned that they get their "briefs" with keywords to repeat so they get etched in viewers memory subconsciously. Just watch all the popular reviewers back to back after any launch and the words will be easy to spot. These days I just watch the ones that are more entertaining or have a honest track record since I started watching.
OT :
If you haven't do watch :
Credits to Providers :

FortNine

Originally Posted by Poitive

Thanks for the interest you've shown in this crazy mind and emotion wrenching hunt, which seems to carry on forever! It tests my patience - my own patience with myself.

Its the most interesting, unique and probably the longest car hunt I have come across, ever. What makes it special is that your requirements are quite simple, sound basics but all the modern car manufacturers have fallen short of, even up to 30 lakhs!
Echo the feeling, drawing blanks every time is quite frustrating.
Sometimes I just want to ask you try out the latest wagonR and see if the space works for you.

[Poitive]

Scorpio-N (Diesel Manual) - Test Drive – this one is going to be long!
(As before the report is about the driving experience and some parts of the cabin experience; have minimised comparisons to the XUV700, for which I expect to post at a later date)

A. Background

With the others in the fray being iffy for one reason or another, this of course was a must-try; also to try and avail of the inaugural prices. If the booking did go through in the initial lot, this might be available sooner than the XUV700. Yes, this is a body on frame (BoF) construction which has it’s pluses and minuses, but my idea was to check it for my purpose, which is mainly city and highway driving with occasional bad patches one might encounter on the hills beyond the popular spots, and also while taking detours through inner roads when a highway might have a jam. I don’t really expect to use the 4x4 aspects. The vehicle test driven, though, was a 4x4 version driven primarily in 2WD mode.

The popularity of automatics, especially in somewhat higher priced cars, along with the NCR limit of 10 years for diesels, getting a test drive for a diesel manual seemed problematic. I usually don’t like to ask for favours, but for this I made a call, as I also really wanted to have a test drive beyond the routine 2-3 kms which most showrooms are offering. I got a substantially longer one, thankfully. That I was not expecting another TD for some time to come, I wanted to cover both points of view in this drive – the analytical and driving parts (as covered in the first page) and the overall feel one gets from a vehicle like a daily-drive vehicle (as covered in the round two of the TDs on page 15). Though I wasn’t able to do both perfectly, I thankfully was able to do both to a reasonable extent.

The first page mainly has drives which were reported months after them being taken and the XUV700 and Nissan Kicks which were short compromised drives. This one was different and it being reported soon after the TD, I remember more of it, so this has ended up being way longer.

Note: I share here what I felt, thought, experienced, and interpreted. As I’ve often said, people differ in how they experience cars which is why I always encourage test drives. Your experience might be different from mine. I’ve also tried to limit my exposure to the vehicle to not get predisposed to a certain view based on some buzz-words being repeatedly mentioned by influencers, who also appear to work by keeping one’s attention on certain aspects while glossing over others. This is where, I think, the forum adds a lot of value – people experiencing vehicles in their own way and sharing with others.

If you've landed directly on this page and wish to read way way shorter, but fairly detailed drive drive experiences of the others in the segment, they can be found on the first page here.

@Mods: Have broken down the report in several posts to keep it easier to track and quote while using smaller devices, and for a more logical presentation.

[Poitive]

B. Before the Drive

B1. First impressions, Exterior Looks.

This was the first time I was seeing it in physical form. The first look was from the rear, the impression I shared on the Scropio-N thread about it being a misfit was very much felt so – quite like patchwork. Moving to the front-side angle, it looked handsome – a high bonnet really helps it’s presence and makes it come across as a tall imposing vehicle. The overall height too does, as does the immense width. It does look impressive from this angle – it’s best one, along with the front, perhaps.

Further, moving to the side, it is one of the few where I like the look of tyres. Most tend to feel small. This one’s profile had a somewhat tough look with a 245/65 on 17” alloys; they suited the vehicle. Further, as noticed from the pictures, the part from the front of the car to it’s C-pillar is really good and proportionate. IMO, it has been ‘inspired’ from the Alturas/Ssangyong Rexton G4. (If not the sales, at least the Alturas is helping Mahindra get good returns in terms of getting a good design to pick from. Resemblance to the Alturas can be seen across - overall conceptualisation and look, steering wheel design has been copied with mods, etc). Beyond the C pillar things get iffy. The cut from the roof to the shoulder line and below does not aesthetically go well and does not have the sophisticated flair of the Alturas, and merges into the disaster the rear of the vehicle. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder, and one might need a lot of beer being held to find this beautiful!

B2. Stepping-in and Basic Ergonomics

Though liking low centre of gravity (CoG) vehicles, I ended up looking at the SUV-Crossover segment mainly for easy ingress-egress due to back issues, this wasn’t a great help. With the height that it does have, one really needs to climb into this one, despite my 6’ frame. It should be a two step process – on the side-step and into the seat. It almost is. One does take time to really get one’s bottom in the right place after that – an issue with climbing into a vehicle. What I am happy to report is that it did have a high enough aperture to enter. This, with my torso being quite large/high for a 6’ person. The front-left seat in the XUV700 was rather high and left insufficient height between the seat and top of door opening for easy enough entry for me (needed about 15-20 odd seconds to enter) and had headroom issues there. Happy to report that the Scropio-N does not have that issue. Easy enough to enter and acceptable headroom to sit. Getting in, of course, was not as seamless as ones which didn’t need a side-step use.

Entry height, though not ideal and generally more troublesome than others being tested, was quite to be expected with a vehicle as high, and a BoF construction (which tends to raise inner floor level relative to the ground).

Now to the all-important driver’s seat. It felt amiss. Took some time to adjust it; a lot, in fact – at the start of the drive and also again midway. The issue is the odd angle of the pan of the seat (the part we sit on). It was way too high from the front side (the part closer to the steering) and low on the rear, and that made for an odd sitting angle. The front of the seat pushed against my thighs and made it uncomfortable; sitting longer didn’t help either. This aspect might be felt differently by people with different leg-heights, seat distance and recline, what they are used to, but I suspect would bother many who are sensitive to it.

Besides the pan angle, the seat overall did not seem to be shaped well enough. It felt uneasy throughout despite the many minutes spent adjusting it in two phases and also while driving. What made things even that the slightest of touches to adjustment controls made the seat move a lot, and it made finer adjustments near impossible. The movements were jerky too. The ratio of control movement to seat movement needs to be improved (made slower). Lumbar support helped, but only somewhat.

The controls on the door too were oddly placed. Had to take my elbow way back to reach some of the controls. The centre console controls were fine though, possibly helped by my longish arms.

Then there were the armrests – differing heights. Not really ideal. Quite good on the front seats, and absolutely atrocious on the rear bench on which I only spent a little time. On the rear, the centre armrest was very high even for my height/torso. Sitting on the so-called Boss’ Chair, my left arm was placed at reasonable height and the right one was way high, as if pushing my shoulder up a bit. It might not feel troublesome in a short TD, but sit on it for long hours, and it is very likely to result in significant discomfort. Strange how such standardized things can go wrong in cars in this era.

If one kept regular bottles in the centre-console, using the armrest would be an issue due to the hindrance it would cause, so it is best used for short stuff – small bottles or glasses. The armrest position itself was okay, but this was no XUV700. It also felt a bit more firm than I’d like. The gear lever too felt about an inch or so too high from the armrest position.

What was excellent was how well the legs and knees sat on the sides with no issue of the knee hitting the console, a console which was way behind my knee (not above) – a design which is more traditional and I like. It was also more comfortable than the XUV700 here, and reminded me of the old Hyundai (fluidic) Verna.

Now, things get interesting – move to the back and one finds things reversed! No other tested had this issue: the knees hit the door-grab-handle on the rear bench. It takes away from usable width of the car, makes one sit about half an inch to an inch away from the window and the feel fo the grab handle odd. I didn’t check it, but others have reported about finding the door pockets difficult to access too. How does one go wrong on such things? A Boss’ Chair, this ain’t – go for the front-left seat if not the driving one, Boss sir!

[Poitive]

B3. Cabin Feel and Space

What was excellent in the front was how airy it felt. Okay, maybe not if you built up high expectations with it’s outer dimensions, but overall a happy airy sunlit cabin, even without the sunroof. I loved that part. That said, the headroom was just about enough in the front seat from my comfortable driving height, and also the passenger seat. On the rear it was barely enough. A bit lesser than the others. If I really stretched my back and became totally upright and lunged forward, my heat touched the bulge due to the sunroof. No was was it as bad as a Kushaq – not even comparable – but yes, it did touch the ceiling. On normal sitting position, it was about okay. Not as airy as the front, but about acceptable, with less headroom margin for unseen speed-breakers and the likes.

The top of glass line felt okay at the rear. An inch higher would have felt great but would bring about other issues (higher CoG, alter dynamics, FE etc). The seat perhaps half an inch lower maybe? The lower part of the glass line too felt okay. Nothing to complain about. Just not as airy as the front.

I liked that one could recline the second row seats; individually. Legroom at the back was okay. Just about enough for a 6’ person behind another 6’ person. Nothing comes close to the Hector on this front. Nothing special for this daddy-size vehicle. Well, it is also kind of understandable. Both the XUV700 and this have independent suspensions at the rear and that takes more space as compared to the torsion bar used in the Hector, Harrier/Safari and most others (Compass too has an independent). This takes away from some interior space. Why the Safari has more space on it’s third seat is also likely due to the advantage it enjoys due to a more compact torsion-beam rear suspension setup. Then, being a BoF RWD vehicle, this also has Double Wishbone suspension in front vs the McPherson Struts in most others, which again take more space (are wider). A raised floor height does give some advantage, but only so much.

I did not check the third row at all. Didn’t even look at it. I am seeing this as primarily a 5 seater, with ample luggage space and possibly the odd time house help might end up in the last row in some odd situation. Now, is it a 5 seater? A third in the second row might be a bit of an issue for a ‘healthy’ family; for a vehicle of this size and class. The aforesaid door-grab-handle design makes me fume now!

B4. Cabin Refinement

It depends on what one compares it with. Mahindra says that it is nothing like the old (classic) Scorpio, but if I were to compare it to that, it is a big step up. No question. However, if one was to compare it to the others in competition (unibody ones), it is just about okay. Yes, on a catalogue it ticks the right boxes and has much, but in the impression it creates, to me, it was like one trying hard in a very restrained budget – no wonder this is seen as a VFM offering. For a rugged platform, it is quite good; a posh cabin to please the typical city-dweller it ain’t. But that is quite personal. Others might love it. It would not be a deal-breaker for the typical Scropio-N buyer, I suppose.

The armrests felt a bit hard and overall touch points built to a budget, but doing well for that budget. It is all a matter of where your benchmarks lie.

[Poitive]

C. The Drive

C1. Footwell

I could have covered it in the ergonomics section but this needed a special mention, as it connected to the driving aspects significantly for me. It was quite wide, but maybe not enough; especially considering the immense width of this vehicle – more than the XUV700, Toyota Fortuner and even the Alturas G4! The dead pedal was a bit cramped and not really comfortably usable to move from that to the clutch pedal.

Further, there is an issue with the angle of the floor to the pedals. The feet do not sit naturally and the ergonomics of the footwell felt rather off for me. While my largish frame might influence things a bit, but only so much. The position of the heel was uncomfortable, which made the control of the left foot worse. It might matter lesser to ones going for an AT, but those interested in an MT, please check your comfort here.

Not sure if it is realized enough, much science goes into getting these things right. Our bodies operate well in certain conditions. The muscles being contracted to exert force is more comfortable in certain directions, and certain movements are easier than others. Such things done right differentiate a good design from an excellent design.

The other car I had a somewhat similar issue (angles being off) was the Chevrolet Cruze.

C2. Drive - Initial Impression

Ignited the engine and wow! This was silent. It really was. Though the engine was experienced in the XUV700 before, considering this one being cheaper and being for rougher use, I was not expecting this to be as good.
We get moving; three people on board. The steering feels a bit stiff. Like some odd resistance. I wonder if the car is okay. It was quite new. Not even run-in. Soon, there is a U-turn and the resistance was felt very strongly. In a moment, realized that the round dial in the central console had a 4x4 mode engaged. Of course, being on a high contact surface like a road, the wheels being locked caused issues due to them needing to travel different lengths in a turn. Told the SA to keep it in regular 2WD mode as that is what I was really interested in a city drive and also my prime usage. Since I wasn’t sure how much time I will get on the drive, I avoided spending time on things I really didn’t need to and try to get maximum time really driving it, and let the SA do the other stuff when needed. (The cabin points in the above sections happened without specifically looking out for them.)

Further, as I try to do, I checked the tyre pressure. There was a difference of 6psi between the two left tyres and the two right tyres. At the pump, the meter matched the on-board TPMS for the left side. For the right, I went with the pump’s meter, but interestingly the on-board reading read 1-2 psi higher. Recommended was 34psi, and I kept at 36psi keeping in mind that we had driven a bit by then warming up the tyres, and to match real-world tyre pressures.

C3. Drive – Through Traffic

Moving along in traffic, as expected, this felt large but quite easy to handle. The steering being light, helps make a lerge vehicle feel less difficult in traffic. The height one is at, one needs to adapt a bit to not miss out on things much lower down one’s eye level than one is used to. Nothing to worry, but something to keep in mind for someone who typically drives lower vehicles – this one really is high. The towering position might be enjoyed by many, as it tends to give some sense of superiority to humans, perhaps due to some sub-conscious primal instinct we have.

It pulled quite well at low RPMs. How good you find it would depend on what you are benchmarking it against. It felt a tad better than the Harrier/Safari and Hector and perhaps like the Compass. Going a bit higher and one can feel the power increase diminishing significantly. Around 3000-3500 the difference becomes more prominent. While this one tapers off, the FIAT MJD 2.0 based ones mentioned above felt more eager in that space, especially the Compass (lowest weight of the lot helping). Most of the time one tends to be in lower RPMs so it should feel good in typical scenarios.

We moved in a fair bit of traffic, and except the significant ergonomic issues mentioned before, this felt simple enough to manoeuvre, though of course had the limitations such width has in traffic. IMO, while driving around town, the width of the vehicle has the biggest impact and it was not inconsequential here – I avoided the really crowded areas around I otherwise might have tried, as there was a big chance of getting stuck in the narrow lanes around.

[Poitive]

C4. Drive – Open and Regular Roads; Suspension Part 1

Here is where the difference in tuning of the engine became the XUV700 and the Scropio-N became evident. From very roughly 3000-3500 RPM it enters a sort-of plateau and feels like it’s neck has been strangled a bit to not allow the engine to breathe freely; not as freely as the XUV700. Please note that it is still very good, and only significantly falls short when compared to the same engine in the XUV700 which has a higher torque and power tune. I expect the Petrol version to feel quite similar in both. The Scorpio-N is about 1900kgs (unclear if the figure mentioned in the launch presentation was of the petrol or diesel) and heavier than the XUV700 (also keep in mind that the unsprung weight would have a significant part of the gain, especially in a 4x4 model, which would have a greater impace; more so in city). So, you’d be well placed for city drives and poor roads, and would need to think twice before racing down a clear highway if you are the kind inclined. This is not really built to be that kind of a vehicle. An XUV700 should easily have this in the rear view mirror diminishing in size.

I did manage to get to test it on the turn I like to for getting a feel of the suspension, dynamics, and overall control. Let me start with the background of this being a BoF construction with a pretty high CoG, and amongst the tallest SUVs around in it’s segment and more. For that, it was excellent. Yes, it was. However, when I see it in the background of all the talk one heard at the launch event, and how the vehicle is being promoted, all the technology behind explained and much talk of how wonderful it is at 185kmph, it scores rather poorly in my books. I think if I had gone with a completely blank slate with no pre-conditioning of how good this one is, and had the height and weight in mind, I would have been impressed, but with all the talk, my expectations perhaps became unrealistic for it’s form-factor. Let us not get carried away by the marketing talk.

While most vehicles would hold well at high speeds in a straight line and without any hindrance, to really drive fast, one needs to account for how it would behave if there were sudden interruptions and need an emergency manoeuvre – be it unexpected traffic or a sudden change in road conditions. We have plenty in India. This is not one I would be happy taking to high speeds due to the above.

If one was to keep aside the technical aspects aside (BoF vs Unibody, FWD vs RWD, vehicle height and CoG, weight etc) and compare how it felt as compared to the others in the segment, it was not as confidence-inspiring, and needs to be driven a bit differently. It is perfectly good for it’s purpose and intent – once again, we should not get carried away taking sales talk to heart and use due judgement. For high speeds, based on what I could TD in the city, my choice in order of preference would be: Harrier, Jeep Compass, Safari, XUV700, Hector/Scorpio-N. Hector would probably be worse due to it’s soft suspension and low track width, but not sure enough to demote it.

Side note: Talking about the Hector, once again, sitting on my high perch in the Scropio-N, one passing by felt quite small; even smaller than what it felt in the XUV700 drive. When seen sideways, the Hector does appear fairly large though, as the Scropio-N’s rear feels truncated and proportions are towards the taller side and the Hector’s on the longer side.

[Poitive]

C5. Steering, Suspension Feel Part 2, and More

So, I would not go for very high speeds on the Scorpio-N. How is it besides this?

Driving wise, it is not what I can call agile. Really not. It isn’t as slow acting as a softly sprung Hector is, but it is no XUV700; surely not the Jeep Compass. Like a Harrier and Safari? Somewhat slower than a Harrier and perhaps like a Safari – I can’t really be sure as I don’t remember it well enough to give a proper comparison here. However if you keep it’s overall height, and the height of the cabin floor in mind, it makes it a pretty high CoG vehicle and with that background it is rather good. It is not troublesome on that aspect.

Would I call the suspension hard or soft? It has an interesting feel, which I would elaborate in the subsequent point. Driving dynamics wise, it is closer to a harder suspension, but there is a sense of incoherence in this feel.

The steering felt somewhat firmer than the XUV700 when turned more. Not as light. Is it better? Well, I think we tend to get used to the weight of the steering a fair bit after a few month’s of use – unless it is something more extreme – so weight is a lesser issue in my mind. Does it build a good connect with the driving experience and car? No. It does not. It only felt a somewhat harder steering than the XUV700 and was almost as disconnected to the drive, with the weight only helping a little. The steering didn’t really have any significant feedback. This might be appreciated by many as keeping things smooth and disconnected from the environs, however some who look for the connect to the drive might find this quite sorely lacking.

It is not only about the “enthusiast feeling of connect” the steering feel has safety implications too. Like when I was talking about not being at ease with high speeds on this one, a communicative steering could have changed that to an extent. Being disconnected doesn’t tell you how close to the limit of the car you are while driving it, and tells you little of the surface you are on (more on this in suspension talk further).

Mahindra has gone for it being friendly to the average consumer and I understand the approach from a seller’s perspective – it quite makes sense. One hears of many complaints of the Harrier, Safari and Fortuner having hard steerings (all HPS – Hydraulic Power Steering). This is easier to sell, and also to use within town and in typical conditions. Enthusiasts are a small and diminishing tribe.

I should also qualify the above with me not finding enough suitable bad roads to try this on, so the impression above though likely to be correct is less certain than I would like it to be. Both the roads I test for feel over broker roads (lightly broken and somewhat more broken) have been repaired, as was discovered after a diversion to that segment resulting in dismay – who’d have thought there would be complaints about roads being repaired!!!

Further, the steering felt slow in the centre position. The movement of the steering results in little movement of the vehicle at that point. This too takes away from the feeling of agility. While one might see this as a negative, we need to bear in mind that this is a different kind of vehicle where agility isn’t a prime consideration of design – this is no hot-hatch, and is a proper size SUV. A slower steering in the centre is also said to be helpful when off-road as it allows finer control over the vehicle, and would also result in more controlled bump-steer (the impact of undulations on the steering). It also helps in certain high-speed situations. The steering felt like a regular one beyond that centre part. I guess this is by design and not a flaw.