[07CR]

I would soon be replacing my Ecosport Diesel S TDCI (BS4) with a Seltos GT Line model.

I like to keep my cars for long (Ecosport unfortunately being an exception due to Ford's exit). I wish to keep the next car for around 10-12 years.

With that away, I have narrowed down to Kia Seltos GT Line. However, I am a little confused with respect to the fuel choice.

Some information about my usage-
My annual running is about 9000 kms.
Most of it is in city conditions with long highway trips thrown in once a month. The car would spend it's major time in short city trips of around 10 kms.
I also have a Kia Sonet iMT Turbo Petrol, which has been niggle free in it's 2.5 year existence with us.

I am worried about the long term maintenance of Seltos's DCT, if I go in for the Turbo petrol DCT combo. Will the DCT be reliable with me, if I pay attention to basics? (not overheating it, putting it in neutral whenever possible, relatively sparse traffic in my region)
On the other hand, with my relatively low highway running, I am worried that I will encounter many DPF related issues.

With Only these factors in mind, seeking your guidance, as to which engine transmission combo should I go for? Turbo Petrol DCT or Diesel AT? In other cars, while the Hybrid combo of Hyryder is a great option, but I feel the overall package is more Maruti than a Toyota, hence won't consider it.

[avira_tk]

Why bother with the dct, an automatic is meant for convenience, not timing red lights and watching the temperature gauge like you're baking. 10 kms is a good distance, the engine will warm up in that time for a diesel. The added bonus is that the diesel will be cheaper to run with good performance, the turbo petrol will perform only with premium fuel, those headline HP figures are misleading, just slick marketing.

[ani_meher]

Have you test ridden both Turbo petrol vs Diesel automatic? I felt the diesel to be lethargic after the turbo engine test ride, but this was on open road. Maybe take a test ride of both in traffic. Also, regular 10 kms in city conditions may not be enough to clear the DPF. With petrol and diesel prices so close, I feel the diesel engines don't offer enough savings for less running.

I feel DCT can be reliable given due care, rather than DPF.

[Hayek]

Petrol any day. The BS6 diesel makes no sense unless you are a regular highway driver. Plus you live in the #8 city in India - so you do face the risk that at some stage, diesels will be banned in Pune too.

DCTs are not as reliable as torque converters - but they are not failing at a 100% rate the way the infamous DQ200 did back in the day. And Kia will likely support you if you have a problem. Take the extended warranty though.

Also I believe the face lifted Seltos has autohold - so you don’t need to keep shifting to neutral etc.

[Axe77]

Echo most of what Hayek said and for the same reasons too.

I am also simply off diesels now (specially BS6 diesels with all their DEF hassles etc). I would any day recommend the petrol and like Hayek said, go for the max extended warranty.

I’m in fact fast tracking my own garage off diesels too and expect to make a shift to one petrol car asap and within 3 - 4 years, a second car which will be either a strong hybrid / EV. If I was buying a car today, a diesel would simply not be on the list at all, specially for people living in Tier 1 cities like Mumbai and Pune. Policy is just far too unpredictable.

A couple of years ago there was also too much uncertainty on ethanol blending but today most cars are coming with E20 compliant fuel so you should be sorted on most fronts with petrol and max warranty now. Your running is not that high for fuel cost to be a concern and 10 - 12 years holding period for the car is a long enough time horizon to bet on petrol instead of diesel.

[androdev]

It’s a no brainer to rule out diesel in your case - short city commute, maintenance complexity, regulatory risks.

A good hybrid would have been great but hard to find something as appealing as Kia. If you prioritise trouble free long term ownership, this certainly deserves another look. I feel hybrid and EV should be given due consideration if someone is purchasing a city car.

DCT from a dependable brand like Kia should not be an issue - it’s not as notorious as DSG and Kia is not like a VW when it comes to customer support.

[Turbohead]

If you have concerns with both DSG and DPF, why not get the 1.5 turbocharged petrol IMT? I know it isn't a proper automatic but curious to hear your thoughts about it since you already own a Venue IMT.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The added bonus is that the diesel will be cheaper to run with good performance, the turbo petrol will perform only with premium fuel, those headline HP figures are misleading, just slick marketing.

Yes, that's the main reason I was considering a Diesel. I am fine with it's performance as well, as it would be slightly better than my Ecosport, which is good enough for me.

Originally Posted by Hayek

Also I believe the face lifted Seltos has autohold - so you don’t need to keep shifting to neutral etc.

I didn't understand this. Does Autohold kinda negate the heating issue of DCT in some or the other way?

Originally Posted by ani_meher

I feel DCT can be reliable given due care, rather than DPF.

Originally Posted by Axe77

Echo most of what Hayek said and for the same reasons too.

I am also simply off diesels now (specially BS6 diesels with all their DEF hassles etc). I would any day recommend the petrol and like Hayek said, go for the max extended warranty.

Originally Posted by androdev

DCT from a dependable brand like Kia should not be an issue - it’s not as notorious as DSG and Kia is not like a VW when it comes to customer support.

Thanks for all your responses. I came across a thread, where it is mentioned the new Seltos comes with a AD Blue tank, which kinda negates the DPF concerns. Is that really true, any idea on the same? Pretty sure Diesel is here to stay atleast for the existing cars for another decade, which will help me recover the investment costs. Just concerned about DPF, and whether the Ad Blue would resolve any DPF issue that might arise?

Originally Posted by Turbohead

If you have concerns with both DSG and DPF, why not get the 1.5 turbocharged petrol IMT? I know it isn't a proper automatic but curious to hear your thoughts about it since you already own a Venue IMT.

I have a Sonet iMT. I wanted to go for a fully automatic gearbox since it would be even more convenient. Also the 1.5 T iMT isn't available in topmost variant, which misses out on some of the must have goodies in my case.

[Axe77]

@07CR:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...blue-here.html (BS6 Diesel Car owners - Your experience with DPF / SCR / AdBlue here)

You should find all your queries related to ad blu here. My Jeep Meridian also came with an Ad Blu tank but that doesn’t take away the DEF considerations in general and also the added administrative aspect of filling Ad blu from time to time.

But I’d encourage you to review the thread above for more specific answers.

[avk]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Will the DCT be reliable with me, if I pay attention to basics? (not overheating it, putting it in neutral whenever possible, relatively sparse traffic in my region)

I have a Sept 2020 GTX+ DCT and in my over 3 years of ownership covering almost 30k kms, the transmission heat warning came only once during a lock jam traffic with crawling speed covering 2 km in one hour driving in Bengaluru (2 months ago). And the warning went away within a min of it too. Also I have never put it in neutral at traffic stops when the stoppage is less than 1 min.

[ike]

Originally Posted by 07CR

I am worried about the long term maintenance of Seltos's DCT, if I go in for the Turbo petrol DCT combo. Will the DCT be reliable with me, if I pay attention to basics? (not overheating it, putting it in neutral whenever possible, relatively sparse traffic in my region)
On the other hand, with my relatively low highway running, I am worried that I will encounter many DPF related issues.

Your running does not warrant a diesel. However there is no such thing as a reliable dual clutch transmission, just that some fail earlier than others. VAG, Ford, Hyundai/Kia have all had issues with DCTs.

DPF too is an issue that has been troubling the diesel engines with even Toyota struggling with it. Of the two, DPF troubles are more manageable I feel as a clogged DPF should clear on manual regeneration.

[Shreyans_Jain]

1. There is no case for diesel. You don’t have the running to make it worth the DPF risks, short running and potential regulatory issues

2. While the iVT automatic would have rid you of the DCT reliability concerns, I don’t think it is an option you are open to. NA-iVT is arguably more suited to short urban commutes than turbo-DCT. Cheaper on the pocket, initially as well as in the long term

3. The ideal car for your kind of usage is a hybrid, especially for peaceful long term ownership. Unfortunately, it is a monopoly situation with poor availability.

Still, as it is a compromise one way or the other, my take is that you explore your options more, including electric. If your heart is still set on the Kia, get the turbo DCT X Line and have all the fun in the world with it.

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by 07CR

I didn't understand this. Does Autohold kinda negate the heating issue of DCT in some or the other way?

The need to put the DSG cars in neutral is because when you hold the car with a normal brake at a signal, it is straining on the transmission (also true for TC gearboxes) and while I can’t claim to be a technical expert, this seems to be the equivalent of holding a manual on brakes with the clutch pressed. When you press autohold, the car is no longer straining on the gearbox - once again based on experience rather than technical knowledge, it seems like the car automatically goes into neutral and goes back into gear when you dab the accelerator.

[svsantosh]

If Toyota are not able to master the DEF/DPF yet it means it is something that never should be on a automobile.

Please stay away from that curse of an innovation and stick to petrol. BS6/DPF will never give you peace of mind.

[GTX+]

Originally Posted by Hayek

When you press autohold, the car is no longer straining on the gearbox - once again based on experience rather than technical knowledge, it seems like the car automatically goes into neutral and goes back into gear when you dab the accelerator.

More than auto-hold, I think it is the auto start-stop feature which is more beneficial in this case because it turns off the car when one stops and one doesn't need to worry about putting the gear in N.

Auto hold is more useful in B2B or start-stop traffic.