[bigvishnu]

Friends - Let me give you some background.

I am currently driving the 2015 1.5 Polo GT TDI, done over 120K kms on it and love the experience. Dynamics, efficiency and reliability - et al.

Prior to this, I cut my teeth on a 3 gear petrol jeep (Mahindra CJ), followed by stints with the M800, various versions of the tata indica, indica vista, Mahindra thar and now the Polo, while my wife drives the 2018 Jazz VX Manual, which, for all practical purposes is a city car.

Over the last few years, I have found various reasons to stick on to the Polo with zero regrets, but have continued to follow the new car launch scene pretty closely. Through these years, our initial family of 3 has grown - with the kiddo growing very tall, and addition of 2 adopted furry friends in the mix, each demanding their own space in the car during long drives.

I guess the inevitable is around the corner, and I will soon be in the market for a new car. I had always wanted to upgrade to a proper 2L Diesel German sedan, but hardly any options, unless I start looking at the ultra luxury market, which today, I cannot afford.

The new 2023 Harrier / Safari feel compelling, but considering my previous experience with Tata, I am skeptical, my earlier tatas did not age gracefully, and, driving dynamics were all over the place. I appreciate these 2 aspects a lot more now that i spent 8 years with the Polo!

I know, it is weird to compare what I have with what I potentially want to get, when both the cars are from totally different segments.

So here is the question -

Would Polo GT to a Harrier / Safari be a downgrade or a lateral move from the perspective of:
1. Driving dynamics
2. Fun to drive aspect
3. Graceful ageing

I know, the space on offer is a lot more, and the new tech - gazillion screens and creature comforts are on offer etc. but, being a purist who loves to drive, I am still pondering on this question - and hoping to get some views on what this community thinks. Brickbats welcome too, if you feel the question is blasphemous !

While you are at it your thoughts on:
1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done)
2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic?
3. Safari or Harrier?

Cheers!

[Haze]

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

Would Polo GT to a Harrier / Safari be a downgrade or a lateral move from the perspective of:
1. Driving dynamics
2. Fun to drive aspect
3. Graceful ageing


While you are at it your thoughts on:
1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done)
2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic?
3. Safari or Harrier?

The ideal upgrade to your Polo, considering your three most important criteria would be a Jeep Compass.

1) Sell the Polo. Jazz (assuming petrol) is a great city car. And the diesel compass will anyway do the high mile munching duties.

2) The Jeep has a better manual gearbox, so manual.

3) Jeep

[Turbohead]

Based on your requirements, any specific reason you want to stick to high riding SUVs?

Harrier and Safari, however good they are, will be no match to the dynamics offered by your Polo simply because of the laws of physics

If you were open to 2L diesel Germans, why not the latest Verna turbo DCT? It's definitely modern, tested for safety and will definitely have a better driving experience than a Harrier (not as good as your Polo though). Should be spacious enough for your needs.

I'd suggest you go the automatic way since you live in Bangalore.

[BleueNinja]

You are not just changing segments over here, you are changing your driving style as well. You are going from a compact hatchback to a big crossover/SUV.

When I bought Harrier I had a Polo TSI as well and driving the two would be a difference of day and night.

Since you own a Polo TDI your "thirst for pull" that diesel engine provides would be satisfied with Harrier but you will have to make significant changes to your driving style. I mean at a very high level itself a well-caliberated EPS vs HPS on Harrier.

Is Harrier an overall upgrade from Polo? Yes. You will get more space for your passengers, more feature set and a bigger and more powerful engine as well with a sweet bonus of road presence.

But, do not expect fit and finish levels of Polo from Harrier. I mean you won't even get the same finesse in VAG 2.0 cars let alone Tata or Mahindra.

What you really need to understand and ask yourself is what kind of driving experience you are looking for. If it's the same as polo but in a crossover then please go for Taigun/Kushaq 1.5 TSI else it's a low slung sedan like Virtus or Slavia 1.5 TSI would benefit you more while retaining the core values

XUV 700 Diesel also makes a good case for itself.

Finally, I would encourage you to take N numbers of thorough test drives. Drive the test drive car on one route and then drive your polo on the same. You will be able to gauge which car actually feels like an upgrade.

[ike]

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

So here is the question -

Would Polo GT to a Harrier / Safari be a downgrade or a lateral move from the perspective of:
1. Driving dynamics
2. Fun to drive aspect
3. Graceful ageing

While you are at it your thoughts on:
1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done)
2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic?
3. Safari or Harrier?

Cheers!

I got a harrier recently as an upgrade from an S cross. While Harrier is a good car, it is quite unrealistic to expect same driving dynamics as a hot hatch. Ditto for fun to drive. The engine is very drivable and has good torque but not sure what your criteria are.

Seems to me that the Jazz has more life left than the polo, Jazz is what I'd retain.

I don't have dogs/pets but if you are planning to have dogs in the car you might be better off with a safari rather than the harrier. Remember harrier has only 2 rows but in the safari you could fold the third row down and have them occupy that space.

[androdev]

IMHO, Polo is probably the hardest car to replace given the amazing price point it was offered at. I get to drive few cars (mine and extended family's) on a daily basis and anytime I get behind the wheel of Polo - I feel a rush of positive emotions There are cars nimbler than Polo, but they don't have the solidity of the build like a VW. There are big fast German sedans but they are not as slick as Polo.

Every car is a compromise, the trick is to make the right compromises based on your own personal preferences - what you can tolerate and what you wish to avoid at any cost.

If you are OK with the so-so driving feel to deal with bad roads and to offer more space for family, etc. you can certainly go with some big SUVs that offer a very nice package.

OTOH, if you simply do not wish give up on the driving dynamics - stick to a sedan or a crossover with proper driver's DNA (Jeep Compass and European ones). For someone coming from 8 years of Polo ownership, you will need just one test drive on the highway to eliminate many popular SUVs/Crossovers.

If you do need three rows, it's pointless to search for a fun-to-drive car and just pamper family with a spacious and safe car that may drive like a boat.

My recommendation? A sedan if you don't need three rows.

VW Virtus: Logical choice from a Polo, don't use a microscope to check the build quality. 1.0 AT, 1.5 MT, 1.5 DSG all are good choices depending on your appetite for risk and how long you plan to keep the car.

Hyundai Verna: Test drive and see if Hyundai has managed to up the game enough to covert a VW fanboy. A decent compromise to avoid the service risks associated with VW.

Preowned Camry Hybrid: The only D segment sedan with low cost of ownership (fuel and maintenance). You will find the new model Camry for 30-35L in Bangalore from reputed sellers like U Trust.

[GTO]

It isn't necessary for driving pleasure to only mean fast, tight-handling cars - here is an excellent article on the topic (Is it necessary for "fun-to-drive" to only involve fast + tight handling cars? I don't think so!).

A fast hatchback delivers a different kind of kick. So does a large SUV. A supercar is fun for many people, while others spend the same money on a slow vintage car that does 0 - 100 in 10-30 seconds. High-revving 500 BHP turbo-petrols on the expressway is , but so is crawling @ 10 kmph in your 4x4 in the jungle. A Cooper S is more fun than a Lamborghini in India. For the city, I've found 400cc motorcycles to be far more enjoyable than the 1-liter variety. Superbikes bring a lot of pleasure, but so do cruisers like Harley-Davidsons. I loved corner-carving the Lonavla ghats in a Seltos turbo-petrol; with my family, I thoroughly enjoyed calmly cruising on the same road in a boat-like MG Hector, thanks to its comfy living room nature.

I have a remapped 530d with 300 BHP on tap. I also have a Thar turbo-petrol which is the diametric opposite of the 530d in every way (fuel type, handling, braking, height, steering etc.). Yet, both are equally fun to drive.

You'll appreciate the Harrier / Safari for the space, styling, tall seating position, contempariness, the fact that lesser people will cut you off on the road, enhanced comfort levels etc. etc. But you will definitely miss the acceleration + handling of your Polo GT TDI. Going by your post, I think you are ready to make the switch.

1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done)

Presuming you will be driving the SUV and your wife will continue using the hatchback, better to let her make the choice. Try convincing her to drive the Polo, then you will have the perfect combination of cars. That being said, your Polo GT TDI will cost you big bucks with time (check out Gannu's Polo GT TDI thread, he sold it off after an engine failure and bought a Jazz). As a beater, the Jazz is the superior choice.

2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic?

AT. Manuals are dead. Added bonus = Tata has mated the AT gearbox really well to the 2.0 diesel. Even better than Jeep's own implementation in the Compass!

Safari or Harrier?

Will boil down to personal preferences. For me, the bigger the better, so I'd go for the Safari. IMHO, the Safari also looks better and has an iconic nameplate.

[shancz]

The earlier posts answer your questions aptly, nothing more needs to be said.
My inputs are from the perspective of someone who has mainly driven hatchbacks and toying with the idea of a comfortable highway cruiser for 5-6 people. No plans, just a thought.
Safari comes to mind first and I have concluded that its due to the ads doing their job well

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done)
2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic?
3. Safari or Harrier?

1. Sell the Polo. You've bought and enjoyed it at the right time but with 1.2 lakh kms done it runs the risk of recurring and I assume expensive maintenance. The Jazz is quite new and will easily last its RC validity in true Honda fashion. Plus its hard to find a replacement for the space it offers in that price range.

2. Automatic, especially when it comes to larger cars. Safari will take some time adjusting to its proportions and not having to worry about the gears will help a lot.

3. Safari. I don't see any reason why I would forego the option of having 2 additional seats, which can be folded down when not needed, for an increase of 6.3cm in length and 7.7cm in height.

All that being said my concerns would lie with the all digital instrumentation and controls which have been a sore point with the Safari/Harrier earlier.
Hope they have sorted it out this time.

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done)
2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic?
3. Safari or Harrier?

1. Polo GT TDI is a gem of a car and irreplaceable in the current market. However, the cost of upkeep will only keep rising with time. If you haven't done any performance mods in the car then you can safely expect it to run for another 1 lakh KMs. Jazz is a fill it shut it kind of hatch. Lots of space, ultra reliable, cheap maintenance and has done just 15K so far, which means another stress free & relatively cheap 2 lakhs of KMs. I would go against the tide and suggest not to upgrade. For a family road trip, you can use the Jazz. It can easily fit 4 adults with sufficient baggage. Once the cost of maintaining Polo goes beyond a threshold then you may think of an upgrade to Safari or Harrier. More so this will also be the time where Tata will fix all teething issues with the upgraded high tech SUVs.
2. If at all you still decide to upgrade then go for an Automatic. However, an upgrade from Polo will be Compass Diesel. Jeep has better manuals than automatics. We never ever get everything we wish for
3. Jeep Compass or Meridien Diesel

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

Would Polo GT to a Harrier / Safari be a downgrade or a lateral move from the perspective of:
1. Driving dynamics
2. Fun to drive aspect
3. Graceful ageing

I would consider the change as an upgrade rather than a downgrade or lateral if moving from hatchback to SUV. Harrier/Safari surely clicks the first two parameters and I feel the third parameter is a myth as it depends more on the usage.

While you are at it your thoughts on:
1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done)
2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic?
3. Safari or Harrier?

To answer the questions serially:
1. Polo for sure no two doubt on that.
2. Real men drive Manual
3. Safari if 7 seater required or else Harrier.

[Octy17]

Sell the Polo. Retain the Jazz.

If you are open to the idea of looking at pre-owned cars, there are plenty of options. You could take a look at a low mileage Skoda Superb Sportline or Octavia. These are good options. Even a F30 3 Series would be available around the same price range.

They would all be fun to drive and would fill in the void if you decide to sell the Polo.

All the best.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Honestly, there is no replacement to Polo below 50 Lakhs. A Mini/A-class would be the closest replacement.

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

while my wife drives the 2018 Jazz VX Manual, which, for all practical purposes is a city car.

Is your wife ok for the big change ? If at all you decide to replace the Jazz (which is not a good idea), then what will she drive - Polo or new big SUV/Crossover/Sedan?

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

I guess the inevitable is around the corner, and I will soon be in the market for a new car.

How long is your "soon"? Given you are not ready yet, I suggest you to hold on for a few more months (6-8 months at least), for 2 reasons

1. Harrier/Safari major niggles will be sorted/fixed.
2. There will be a lot more new options in the market.

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

The new 2023 Harrier / Safari feel compelling, but considering my previous experience with Tata, I am skeptical, my earlier tatas did not age gracefully, and, driving dynamics were all over the place. I appreciate these 2 aspects a lot more now that i spent 8 years with the Polo!

Coming from the Polo, things remain the same from your previous experience. Especially with Harrier/Safari. However, the driving dynamics, handling and ride expectations should not be the same. How can you expect a hot hatch and a heavy & tall crossover to be the same?

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

Would Polo GT to a Harrier / Safari be a downgrade or a lateral move from the perspective of:

1. Driving dynamics - DOWNGRADE if you benchmark Polo.
2. Fun to drive aspect - It depends on what is "FUN" ? But since you loved Polo, again its a DOWNGRADE.
3. Graceful ageing - Subjective. The new Safari has killer looks. In fact, compared to Hyundai's radical design language, Tata's design language is much graceful. But compared to VW/Skoda, Tata is still aggressive. In fact, going forward, with EV's dethroning ICE cars, I think the design language (all OEM's) will only get erratic and aggressive.


1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done) - Sell the POLO. No second thought.
2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic? - Automatic. Automatic. Automatic. Period.
3. Safari or Harrier? - Between the two, it is Harrier for driving fun. However, Safari is more car for the money. I would choose Safari over the Harrier.

Compass may not be right upgrade for you given your requirements for space and utility. In fact, except the driving dynamics (still not a match to Polo), Compass cannot fulfil any of your requirements.

The other options you may want to consider are the upcoming Tiguan/Kodiaq or current gen Tiguan/Kodiaq if you are ok to live with low/single digit kmpl. If there is budget limitation, then Safari is a good car except for the quality, fit and finish and the poor ASS experience.
If you are open to pre-owned cars, then the options are numerous - Octavia, Tiguan, Kodiaq, Endy, X1, X3, 3 series, 5 series, A4, A6, A Class, C Class, XC40, S60, XC60, and many more...

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

I know, the space on offer is a lot more, and the new tech - gazillion screens and creature comforts are on offer etc. but, being a purist who loves to drive, I am still pondering on this question - and hoping to get some views on what this community thinks. Brickbats welcome too, if you feel the question is blasphemous !

While you are at it your thoughts on:
1. If we were to sell one of the 2 cars - should we even consider retaining the Polo (120K kms done) Vs the Jazz (15K kms done)
2. New car - Manual Vs Automatic?
3. Safari or Harrier?

Cheers!

Polo with 5 adults and luggage is neither nice to drive or comfortable, so there you have it, harrier will be an upgrade. Get the automatic of course, they simply cannot get the MT right, its a pain.

Between Safari & Harrier - Harrier is better to drive.

Since you mentioned you love to drive, please test drive Harrier & definitely the Cheetah in the room - XUV7OO, which is what every other SUV-crossover is trying to catch up to.

To retain a well run VAG car Vs an almost new Honda - is that even a question?

[steadfast]

I upgraded from a Polo 1.5D to Harrier top model.
The only downside I witnessed:
1.) Harrier is huge and you just can’t take it anywhere with the same agility that Polo can go. Harrier has plenty of power on tap with sport mode. The sensation is better than Polo. But Harrier will just make you a patient driver due to its extraordinary size. Harrier is wider than even a Fortuner so now you can imagine.

Rest apart no other downsides. Once you start driving Harrier you will not miss Polo and Jazz will just start feeling primitive

[1.2TSI7DSG]

Originally Posted by bigvishnu

Friends - Let me give you some background.

I am currently driving the 2015 1.5 Polo GT TDI, done over 120K kms on it and love the experience. Dynamics, efficiency and reliability - et al.



I know, it is weird to compare what I have with what I potentially want to get, when both the cars are from totally different segments.

So here is the question -

Would Polo GT to a Harrier / Safari be a downgrade or a lateral move from the perspective of:

I was in a similar boat with Polo GT TSI (2013-1.1 l kms). I didn't find Harrier as an upgrade (may be the newer one is).

The cars that I found as an upgrade
1. Octavia
2. Tiguan
3. Kodiaq

But none of these make sense within a 20-25 l budget.
So I settled with the City & Scorpio N