[ChassisChatter]

Originally Posted by mayuresh

Wonder what you think of Safari 2023. Not an iconic look of Safari Dicor. But it is Ladder Frame and comparable with the ones you mentioned?

Not at all Sir, I will not suggest New Safari to anyone, and please note that New Safari is Monocoque chassis SUV. Below are the Pros and Cons when drove my cousin 2022 New Safari.

Pros:
1. Build quality of the vehicle is topnotch, very much like European cars.
2. Very Good comfortable 3rd row, even when compared to Innova Crysta's
3. Interiors are premium.
4. Very much confident while driving in corners.

Cons:
1. Steering feels like I am driving Tata 407 Truck.
2. Pathetic Diesel and Petrol Engines, not at all refined.
3. No 4x4 option
4. Cabin isolation
5. Uncomfortable middle row seating.
6. Serious clutch, and break pad issues. Don't know whether Tata fixed it 2023 models.

My suggestion is spent some time in test driving the Scorpio-N and New Safari, you can feel the difference. Yes Scorpio-N is also not a perfect SUV, there are issues still exists, like recently I observed my stock tires of Scorpio-N Z8L AT 4X2 wear out too early(clocked just 20K KM) and Infotainment silver box replacing going on for lot of fellow owners. Problems exists in all the vehicles. If you want piece of mind and reliability but not quality ride and ice age interiors go with Innova Crysta.

Regards
Chassis Chatter

[vigneshkumar31]

Scorpio 4WD is the only real option today. Go for it!

[MoonShot]

Originally Posted by mayuresh

Wonder, if I were to extend the budget further, why this list doesn't include a Fortuner.

Ah! It's just my personal bias. I find Fortuner extremely overpriced and a car with "yesteryear" features. I believe that a car you are buying in 2023 should have the capability and the functionality that this decade demands.

On a closer read of your first post, it looks like you are relatively agnostic of the advanced features that most cars of today have. Hence, perhaps a new Fortuner or even a pre-owned one could be a good fit. But at that price range, a Volvo (Built like a tank) and Skoda Kodiaq (A new generation coming in early next year) may also come into the picture.

The budget is a slippery slope though - One could very quickly lose one's life saving chasing a dream car

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Rodie09

Would you mind specifying reasons for advise to stay away from Safari and Harrier.

This forum has enough and more evidence to prove that the reliability quotient on these cars is very low.

Originally Posted by MoonShot

I believe that a car you are buying in 2023 should have the capability and the functionality that this decade demands

I will take the liberty to point out that the Fortuner is unbeatable on the two aspects highlighted above "Features" - well, what's that?

[anjan_c2007]

I think if OK with you please stick to a Tata or Mahindra since you've owned the Safari for so long. The DNA of these solidly built SUV's is a class apart but for the finesse and precision engineering that those MNC models come with. After test driving, you can zero upon a particular one that you can get over with your knee trouble.

Like after getting used to full time driving Mahindra/Jeep/Willys when I bought my Maruti 800, I landed from the stratosphere to ground level. Driving tough built four wheelers spoils you and the changeover to fragile-handle with care ones delivers something like a driving culture shock.

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

This forum has enough and more evidence to prove that the reliability quotient on these cars is very low.

People often use Internet and forums such as ours to air their grievance for any particular product as it’s a quick way to get organisations to register their issues and provide a resolution. You will rarely see satisfied customers coming up and sharing their experiences for a product.

I don’t think any brand out there has a clean sheet wherein there haven’t been issues associated with it which haven’t been highlighted. Toyota which is known for its reliability has been part of that club as well wherein they had to face law suits and had to recall their cars.

I think we are developing a bias towards Harrier/Safari where we are outright advising people not to go for it because it’s bound to break down at some point or will develop an issue. We really need to look at the sample size that we are basing our bias upon and outright rejecting the vehicle.

OP is a Tata owner and has had a decent experience for past 12 years ( I would assume since he hasn’t pointed out having a bad experience with his Safari) but then there are some who haven’t had does that mean Tata’s cars shouldn’t be touched with a barge pole ? I don’t think so.

If we are holding Tata accountable for not making Harrier/Safari reliable then why aren’t we equally holding Hyundai/Kia accountable for cutting corners and providing us with a car whose structural integrity isn’t at par with International standards or can be called as “weak” ? I can see Seltos has been recommended to OP and in other posts as well Cars with not so good structural integrity are suggested left right and centre.

XUV700/ScorpioN have had their fair share of issues with one recently discussed wherein the airbags didn’t deploy. Then there were other issues where the cars broke down immediately within 2-3 days of delivery.
XUV 500 had its fair share of issues for many years but is it a bad car? No, it’s a great machine and there are many owners who are still happily driving it.

I in no way am suggesting that one should make peace with issues that develop with a car, The point I am trying to highlight is that machines are bound to face issues and Manufacturers definitely need to be held accountable to provide us with products which are err-free but then all of them should be held accountable equally instead of signalling one out and giving another a pass.

A product should be judged based on your experience with test drive and its merits and demerits, of course due diligence needs to be done at prospective buyer’s end as well on how would be the after sales and service experience within their locality but outright rejecting a vehicle because internet said so isn’t the right thing to do.

[condor]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

The DNA of these solidly built SUV's is a class apart but for the finesse and precision engineering that those MNC models come with. ... Driving tough built four wheelers spoils you and the changeover to fragile-handle with care ones delivers something like a driving culture shock.

+1

Being a long time Storme owner, and before that the mechanically simple Sumo TCIC & even a Ford Ikon Duratorq 1.4D, I am not able to find a decent replacement amongst the current crop of vehicles that I can quickly switch over to. The Innova Crysta would be an option, but IMO is a bit big than what I would require.

[mayuresh]

Thanks for all the responses.

Originally Posted by GTO

Also TD the Innova Hycross Hybrid.

Considering Hycross (along side Safari and XUV 700) as of now.

So, technically why is Hycross not an SUV and is called MUV or a crossover?

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by mayuresh

So far I seem to have liked Honda Elevate reviews. But not sure if I should really switch from 2.2L Dicor to 1500 cc engine. How much will I miss the power of Safari on long drives? (I am not particularly sedate style driver when it comes to outings with good highways.)

Engine cubic size is rather irrelevant. If the engine makes more horsepower or is paired to a better gearbox or if the entire car is lighter, then it will feel more powerful and will accelerate faster and reach higher top speeds. Old american V8s used to be 5000cc and produce about 120hp. New 2.0 4cyl engines produce more power than that.

Take a test drive, no real way to tell unless you drive it yourself instead of comparing numbers online.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Being an up and running Safari Dicor Ex (2010) owner, I would suggest a car which you may not like.

It is XL6. It fits your requirements mostly. My friend has the automatic variant and it drives well. Seats are not as big as Dicor's; engine (SmartHybrid) is not as powerful; built quality is Maruti's standard.

Ample space, third row may not be needed for your requirements, superb mileage of above 16 km/l and costs much less than competition.

Test drive to see if power is sufficient for your requirement.

[condor]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

... I would suggest a car which you may not like.

It is XL6. ...

I have taken a ride in this (my friend has an AT variant), and also a short drive. I would not call it even a fair replacement for a Safari. It is no where as comfortable as a Safari/Storme. Space inside is obviously lesser. And not much fun driving it ..

[mayuresh]

Thanks for all the responses. Here is a summary of what I gather.

- Having driven Safari Dicor so long, I don't feel like shifting downward in terms of engine power. So not considering Seltos, Alcazar, Elevate or that range of vehicles.

- Ruling out high end vehicles for budget reason - such as Fortuner, Mu X, Compass and alike

- HyCross was suggested by many. But, not sure, how good it is meant to be on rough road conditions, not being an SUV. Also its fuel efficiency is quite low. Also I am unlikely to make do with CVT lag.

- That mainly leaves two Indian players in the fray. I know there can be service quality and reliability issues with either of them. If I have to choose a different maker I'll have to compromise at least on the budget or on vehicle power. So I can make do with these, since I have experience of dealing with them.

- Between Scorpio and XUV the latter and between Harrier and Safari the latter looks richer in terms of features and performance and are fitting in the budget. I am not insisting on ladder frame this time as I am unlikely to offroad into really difficult areas. Also not looking for AWD for the same reason.

- While XUV 700 and Tata Safari, both high end models, are quite comparable on most aspects, XUV has the following downsides:

1. longer waiting period

2. absence of a captain seat variant

- On the other hand there are these aspects to consider for a Safari that need a thought

1. 6 month service schedule can be a pain. I read somewhere that the even servicings (i.e. 4th, 6th etc) are "minor services" involving just checkups. Can someone please share their experience of a 4th or 6th service. Was it quick enough, how much did it cost etc.

2. I'll be using 3rd row as a boot, but the folded seats do not become flat and your luggage might not remain stable there. Owners who have tried this may please confirm.

3. Apparently no side step. I don't need it personally, though my family members do. I guess, it can be fitted as an accessory.

4. Why Safari after a Safari for 12 years, why not something else? (Well, it's the TINA factor for now given the above thought process and by the way it's not such a bad one either!)

5. There are reports of the steering getting lighter (instead of stiffer) at higher speeds. I do not know how far I can accelerate in a TD in the city. So can owners confirm how bothersome this aspect is or is it something one can get used to easily?

Next step is TD. Unless Tata Safari manages to disappoint, I may not go after too many TDs given the selection steps above.

More comments and inputs will be definitely of a great help.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by mayuresh

Thanks for all the responses. Here is a summary of what I gather.

Your elimination process is spot on! Take test drives of the XUV 7OO and Safari, and go for the one that tugs at your heartstrings, though I'd still recommend the former, of the two Longer waiting period should not be a deciding factor in my opinion. Good things are worth the wait! Good luck

[pandabear]

Originally Posted by mayuresh

- Between Scorpio and XUV the latter and between Harrier and Safari the latter looks richer in terms of features and performance and are fitting in the budget. I am not insisting on ladder frame this time as I am unlikely to offroad into really difficult areas. Also not looking for AWD for the same reason.

- While XUV 700 and Tata Safari, both high end models, are quite comparable on most aspects, XUV has the following downsides:

1. longer waiting period

2. absence of a captain seat variant

- On the other hand there are these aspects to consider for a Safari that need a thought

Just to add my bit to the comparison, the xuv curtain airbag covers the entire 3 row of passengers the Safari covers only two rows. Now the big question due to the current posts is whether the xuv airbag will open at all when needed, no one can answer that this is a million dollar question.

[mayuresh]

I did TD Safari AT today. Following are some impressions

- It drives well and you can feel its power. No complaints about drive quality, at least from a TD.

- It was not possible to TD it at a high speed to assess the steering lightness issue that is much talked about. Sales person didn't take a question on this and he just said you can drive and see.

- First of all, if you are coming from Dicor experience, you have to understand the similarity with this vehicle ends at the name. This is NOT the Safari we know. This should have rather been called Harrier++ or something like that.

- In particular you miss the seating position of Dicor. Notice that GC of Dicor and new Safari is same, but Dicor's GC is with side step and new Safari's is without.

- From Dicor habit my wife had felt that a side step would be necessary, but after TD, she confirmed that no side step is really needed - which actually speaks about the relatively lowered seating position.

- There is simply no match to Dicor's leg room and head room. Even the windows feel much smaller.

- I think much of these differences will have something to do with the ladder frame to monocoque transition. I am hoping that while I sacrifice these, there will be some return in terms of reduced body roll, increased maneuvering ability.

- Barring 5 vs 6/7 seater there is absolutely no difference between the Harrier and Safari, at least the sales person couldn't spell out if there is any. As such I want to use 3rd row as a boot and very rarely use a seat there. In that case I might want to save a lakh or so by switching to Harrier.

- When 3rd row is folded, it doesn't become exactly flat. It remains slightly inclined. But the incline did not appear so bad that the bags would tumble.

- When 3rd row is folded, 2nd row seat has to sacrifice some part of the leg room as it can't be stretched fully backward. May be, in situations that permit, we can keep bags on the 3rd row seats instead of folding them, so as to utilize full leg room of the 2nd row.

- The sales person initially maintained that the service schedule is yearly. On insisting that I have seen the manual and it says 6-monthly he said, yeah some fluids are to be topped up etc.

- We'd have preferred light exterior and dark interior, but unfortunately this combination doesn't seem to be available.

- Sunroof was nice to see, but not something that charms me much. Same thing about the electronic stuff. The screen looks very cluttered - at least for my taste. Sales person could not tell how to tune in a particular radio channel. He had no idea how to operate it.

- Ventilated seats felt good. (That's another omission in the nearest competitor XUV 700.) But it will take long drives to figure out how effective they are.

- ac is good in the front row, but much poorer in the 2nd. Didn't try 3rd. In Dicor 2nd row ac is very good.

Overall, I am not rejecting this car, but not making an outright selection either. If I select, it will be more out of TINA factor for the given budget and given engine power. Captain seat and ventilated seats are already felt missing in XUV. So XUV TD has to do something really charming to attract out attention. Otherwise we'll fall back to choosing between Safari and Harrier.