[kiku007]

Originally Posted by The Rainmaker

Yes that's true. If you have a strong marketing, you can sell almost anything. Hyundai Verna and Creta are prime examples of that in India. We all know how poorly Verna handles, the suspension setup is very sloppy and the body roll is so evident that even a kid can tell something's wrong. Still people bought it after taking a test drive and are still happy because many of them don't even know the whole purpose of a TD. For most, it's all about just those cheap fancy features that don't cost a thing to the manufacturer but help to sell these vehicles. I'm not into fancy features at all. I like my cars analog, with tactile feedback and communicative chassis. Handling will always take precedence over sheer power. I think our market will take time to mature to understand these concepts. Right now, they're more interested in sunroofs, 'n' number of extra speakers, apple car play, led lights etc.

As for being the benchmark, let me assure you they're NOT. That's what the websites/YouTube makes you believe. I've worked on a lot of Hyundai vehicles over the years and the quality of their filters, components, hoses, etc. are not even close to their Japanese counterparts that they copy. The designs are uncannily similar but still they leave a lot to be desired.

Just like Intel, Hyundai has kept a budget aside. A guy leading their marketing team (a close friend) once told me they have "x" billion dollars kept aside just to ensure that all magazines, YouTube vloggers, and websites write glorious reviews for them. Intel does the same with computer manufacturers - Intel used to pay 2 billion dollars every years to the computer brands just to use their processors (This is a figure from 2016, now it may be even more). This is way bigger than us. That's why I would never trust the internet but get my hands dirty (Pun intended ) if I want to know the complete truth.

You seem to have a lot of information and probably can start a new thread or something to discuss in detail about your findings.

Just like how you wouldn't trust the internet, others will also have issues in trusting your posts (in the internet) without any substantiation. It will be in the subjective opinion bucket in that case.

[The Rainmaker]

Originally Posted by kiku007

You seem to have a lot of information and probably can start a new thread or something to discuss in detail about your findings.

Just like how you wouldn't trust the internet, others will also have issues in trusting your posts (in the internet) without any substantiation. It will be in the subjective opinion bucket in that case.

Yes, you're right. I'm planning to start a couple of new threads in order to share my findings on a lot of subjects not just this. Have a lot to do currently but will begin the write-up once I start getting time.

As for the trust issues, I totally understand where you're coming from. Obviously there are things I can confirm but due to legal or ethical reasons can't go on to name those who provide me this info. But whatever is my first hand experience, I can definitely stand up for it. Internet is full of Right and Wrong info. My opinion is ultimately mine and I'm not being sponsored by anyone. Those who find any truth in my posts may take it others may leave it. From my side, it will always be for the common good of everyone. If I know something and can contribute my bit, I will always do it. Cheers!

[sodapop]

Found this excellent comparison video of the Safari, XUV7OO and ScorpioN. Quite crisp and detailed unlike most other channels.

https://youtu.be/rYfSCR_GnmA

[hrishi_dypim]

I can't vote but Scorpio N is the winner and the first option to vote for.

Scorpio N has 4x4 + RWD(2WD) which makes it a true blue SUV. It has got a mix of luxury and offroading capabilities which are found in the Endeavour, Gloster, and Alturas, and that too at less price.

My 2nd vote will go for XUV 700 AWD because it has AWD not because it has a list of features.

3rd is Safari. If Safari had AWD then it would have got 2nd spot.

4th is Innova and 5th is rest.

[Sahil]

I don't have much experience with Mahindra or this segment as such hence need help.

We have a Scorpio previous gen since a few years and has done over 3L kms. The car is used by our factory plant manager and now needs to be changed.
Our purpose for this vehicle is: rugged since it is driven over broken industrial area roads daily as well as highway runs, luggage space as often certain goods are packed in the car and transported, FE since running is high.
I was considering the Scorpio N base model Z2 or Z4.

My questions are:
1. Is there any other good alternative in the same price band meeting our criterias mentioned above?
2. Is Z4 worth the 1.5L price diff compared to the Z2?
3. What is the expected wait period for the Z2 and Z4?
4. What is the best way to book? Via dealer or online?
5. Is the Mahindra classic base model worth considering, especially since luggage space is better in this.
6. Would the base/lower models start getting 6 airbags from October 1st as per the new ruling?

[acquillew]

Originally Posted by Sahil

I don't have much experience with Mahindra or this segment as such hence need help.

We have a Scorpio previous gen since a few years and has done over 3L kms. The car is used by our factory plant manager and now needs to be changed.
Our purpose for this vehicle is: rugged since it is driven over broken industrial area roads daily as well as highway runs, luggage space as often certain goods are packed in the car and transported, FE since running is high.
I was considering the Scorpio N base model Z2 or Z4.

Hi Sahil,

Based on your requirements, I would suggest you to go for the Scorpio Classic S. The car is rugged, and will serve the purpose. With your requirements, you will want to go for a tested car and the Classic has proved itself often since the last 20 years. With all seats in, the Classic has a better boot too. The Scorpio N still has a lot of unknowns and fuel economy is one of them. Go to the nearest dealership, and I think they will be able to arrange a vehicle for you sooner than you think. At least that's the case in my area.

[UD17]

Originally Posted by Sahil

I was considering the Scorpio N base model Z2 or Z4.

Why not a Scorpio Classic? The classic is now coming with newer D22 engine (which is doing duties in Thar, ScorpioN, Thar). The base version will save cost (knowing that newer booking of ScorpioN will be costlier), is abuse friendly and your plant manager already have experience of that vehicle.

Thanks
UD

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by UD17

Why not a Scorpio Classic? The classic is now coming with newer D22 engine (which is doing duties in Thar, ScorpioN, Thar). The base version will save cost (knowing that newer booking of ScorpioN will be costlier), is abuse friendly and your plant manager already have experience of that vehicle.

Thanks
UD

The classic feels too dated now and doesn’t give a sense of even a marginal “upgrade”

Anyone know what is the current waiting on the z2 and/or z4?

[narayans80]

We are on the lookout for a proper 5-seater. This will include the usage of 2 child seats. This was on mind for the last 3 months, but the timeline is accelerated thanks to unfortunate road accident of Mr. Cyrus Mistry.

I currently own a 2018 S-Cross diesel that lacks that proper 5th seat, hence we are in the lookout for 5+2 seater. I am a drive freak, but I'll consider myself more as a point A to B drive.

My daily usage is 75-85 km, my yearly usage would be ~30-35000 km. This would include possible 800-1300 km drives on the trot. Most of the drives including my commute are > 20 kmph, there are lots of sections I do 50-80 kmph.

My other requirements in no specific order:

• Budget is 14L onroad. Can go up if the car offers that sort of value.
• My current car would be traded in. It is currently at 85K. And I want to replace before this baby turns 100K
• Good service support is a must. I am not married to the SA.
• Must be fuel efficient. I get 21-23 kmpl on my S-Cross on my current commute. 10 kmpl is unacceptable.
• Early delivery is highly preferred as a result of above factor.
• One rear seat must have ISOFIX.
• Side facing seats are a strict no-no.
• 3rd row needs to be split seat. 99% of the time we only seat 5. So the 6th seat would be used for additional luggage.
• Boot space can't be poverty spec. I guess most candidates satisfy this requirement.
• Mostly do 80-100. Some rare sections like Tumkur-Durga, have pushed to 115. It will be driven to put kids to sleep.
• Cruise control is a must.
• This car may never see 4x4 territory. But will see non-tarmac and broken sections. Knee deep water is not out of imagination. Underbody protection is needed.
• Good lighting.
• Black interiors are preferred.
• Some tech would be nice, not really a requirement.
• Sunroof is nice to have, not a requirement.

The candidates I have already given thought are:

• Tata Safari - The car looks great. It is probably not making the final list because, I have to spend 24.xx lakhs for XZ variant to get ISOFIX. The budget is way too much of stretch.
• Scorpio-N - No split 3rd row. 2 year delivery timelines. Meh!
• Scorpio Classic - Should I really look at this?
• Maruti XL6 - Saw this in showroom. I can see S-Cross everywhere. It is a petrol, so its slightly low on priority. The K15C writeups don't inspire confidence. I'll take a test drive to confirm if I can live with it, if there is no other option. Waiting time is at a sane 6-8 weeks.
• Kia Carens - Saw this in showroom and test drove. Satisfies the practicality aspect. I loved the drive. The front looks weird, can live with it as I have with the ugly chrome grill of facelifted S-Cross. Dimensions are perfect. Looking at Prestige Plus which satisfies all my requirements. Waiting time is the only negative (5-6 months).
• Marazzo - Theoretically looks good. Yet to see in flesh and evaluate.
• XUV 700 - Yet to see the car in flesh. Budget is a stretch. Only AX5 seems to have sane waiting times of 4 months. Rest are close to a year or more. I'll forget I ever booked a car by then.
• Toyota Innova - No diesel on offer and is tad too expensive. Petrol Innova is going to be way to expensive to run.
• Alcazar - Yet to see in flesh. It is potentially the top candidate for now. I expect the 1.5D will be similar to Carens. Has the shortest waiting time for a white Prestige MT. Lot of service support for Hyundai is a big positive.
• Hector Plus - Yet to evaluate. Service/Showroom are a little far off. Can compromise on it, if it is so good. Not averse to Chinese connection as long it lives its life uneventfully and there is good service support.

Am I missing anything?

[swami69]

Couple of things I can figure out from your analysis -

XL6 seems to suiting you, low priority because of Petrol, but faster delivery
Alcazar - you are OK with an MT

All others does not seem to suit your requirements at all. Why not look at a used low run Innova Crysta. Follow this link below and check it out with Toyota Utrust - It will suit most of your requirements and it will give a mileage of 14kmpl (MT) for your pattern of usage. The price seems to be higher, probably due to the fact Innova Diesel is not available new. I am sure you can still negotiate. Still a very good car I would say.

If you would like to pursue this path, let me know through PM, I will put you on to the Senior person at Lanson, Pallikaranai and you can take it forward. I recently bought my Fortuner there and I have known them quite well.

https://toyotautrust.in/used-car/che...vacrysta/22112

Swami

[AYP]

Originally Posted by narayans80

We are on the lookout for a proper 5-seater. This will include the usage of 2 child seats. This was on mind for the last 3 months, but the timeline is accelerated thanks to unfortunate road accident of Mr. Cyrus Mistry.

I currently own a 2018 S-Cross diesel that lacks that proper 5th seat, hence we are in the lookout for 5+2 seater. I am a drive freak, but I'll consider myself more as a point A to B drive.

My daily usage is 75-85 km, my yearly usage would be ~30-35000 km. This would include possible 800-1300 km drives on the trot. Most of the drives including my commute are > 20 kmph, there are lots of sections I do 50-80 kmph.





Am I missing anything?

The Karens will offer the most bang for your buck in terms of features. The entry level Alcazar though is very well loaded in terms of features and would be my preference over the Carens. It looks a segment above the Carens both from the outside as well as inside(even more from the inside).

If you can afford the Super variant of the Hector Plus though, it would be my pick primarily due to the 2.0 diesel which is much more punchy as compared to the Hyundai's 1.5. The only major miss in Hector Plus Super is the lack of power folding mirrors. It is a feature which we normally don't use much but when we do, we are glad to have this feature. I am not sure if this can be retrofitted from the outside. Of course this discussion wouldn't arise if you can stretch for the Smart variant.

Even with this missing feature, the Hector Plus Super would be my overall pick.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by swami69

Why not look at a used low run Innova Crysta.

I've burnt my fingers with an used Corolla 5 years back. Suggesting an engine rebuild on a 94K run petrol AT was the last straw.

I am a high miler, so the wear and tear are very accelerated. The above experience has put serious doubts on owning a used car for my use case.

I gave a thought on the petrol Crysta. But EMI and fuel cost put me off by another 15K a month. Too much break the bank

Originally Posted by AYP

The Karens will offer the most bang for your buck in terms of features. The entry level Alcazar though is very well loaded in terms of features and would be my preference over the Carens.

Agreed Carens is definitely bang for the buck. Everyone loved the Carens as well. The 2 disadvantages I see is the long delivery period (during which prices can rise and my S-Cross price could fall further as am sure of breaching 100K in 5 months) and servicing proximity. I have choices of dealer/service center in Hyundai within 20 km. For Kia and MG, the nearest dealer/service is 30 km away from home and closer to work.

Is the Alcazar really claustrophobic? Took my daughter yesterday and she feels that way. Doesn't seem too excited about the pano sunroof either Rest of the family is yet to see. The dimensions doesn't seem whole lot different from S-Cross

Super variant of the Hector Plus

It is a lakh stretch. Have to enquire how good MG is in Madras.

I do use the auto-fold mirrors at my parents' place where I have to park close to the left wall. Have to cross a narrow lane enroute home, where I do need to use it once in a while.

[AYP]

Originally Posted by narayans80

Agreed Carens is definitely bang for the buck. Everyone loved the Carens as well. The 2 disadvantages I see is the long delivery period (during which prices can rise and my S-Cross price could fall further as am sure of breaching 100K in 5 months) and servicing proximity. I have choices of dealer/service center in Hyundai within 20 km. For Kia and MG, the nearest dealer/service is 30 km away from home and closer to work.

Is the Alcazar really claustrophobic? Took my daughter yesterday and she feels that way. Doesn't seem too excited about the pano sunroof either Rest of the family is yet to see. The dimensions doesn't seem whole lot different from S-Cross

I have been inside a Creta and it is a fairly spacious car. The Alcazar should have very similar space though I do remember reading in the Team Bhp official review about Hyundai having reduced the legroom slightly to accommodate the 3rd row. Even then IMO, there shouldn't be much of a difference in legroom between the two. Both the Carens and the Alcazar get sliding 2nd row seats as well. The claustrophobic feeling could have something to do with the dark, i.e., black and brown interiors of the Alcazar. Also, the Carens has a big protruding air filter behind the driver seat which cuts into the rear legroom.

Originally Posted by narayans80

It is a lakh stretch. Have to enquire how good MG is in Madras.

I do use the auto-fold mirrors at my parents' place where I have to park close to the left wall. Have to cross a narrow lane enroute home, where I do need to use it once in a while.

I have generally heard only good about MG servicing but of course, checking it yourself is definitely the right approach. With the Hector Plus, no one will ever complain of rear leg room. The Hector's leg room is more than our Jetta. I always used to think that who needs more legroom than this(our Jetta) until I sat in the Hector. The open and airy feel at the back is quite nice. As far as the auto folding mirrors are concerned, it wouldn't be wrong at all to enquire about getting it retro-fitted at the showroom or at one of the good accessory shops.

Best of luck with your purchase.

[Sachin_Nair]

Hi Guys,

I am looking to buy a Diesel Automatic next year and am confused between XUV 700 and Scorpio N. My usage will be mostly highway trips with family with rare city usage and occasional inter city trips. I test drove both and loved both of them.

My non-exhaustive initial observations after driving both SUV's are below

XUV 700:
Pros:
- Engine: Huge Pro! What a power unit, there is power everywhere in the rev range and it just moves with great confidence.
- Luxurious Cabin: Everything I touched and felt was oozing quality.
- Feature Loaded: Loaded to the Brim. ICE worked well without any noticeable lags and no disruption in the wireless AA.
- Huge Panoramic Sun-Roof: Let's in so much light and makes the cabin feel like a lounge.
- Seat Comfort: The seats had great cushioning and I think I will have no issues driving for long hours.

Cons:
- Noisy Suspension: This was the Achilles Heel of my drive especially after test driving Scorpio N (more on this later). Over broken Roads there is lot of creaking noise from front suspension and very evident if music is off. Felt annoying to be honest over a 15 minutes test drive, Can't say if I can get used to this or get more annoyed. Hope there is a fix! (Owners please confirm if this issue is fixed)

Scorpio N:
Pros:
- Ride Quality & Suspension Set up: The set up is really well tuned and it soaked up all of the poor broken roads without filtering any jitters in the cabin. It felt like a magic carpet ride over broken roads and whoever buys this big daddy is gonna love this aspect. No weird suspension noise as was the case with my test drive XUV 700.
- Road Presence: It looks so imposing from the front end, very intimidating and don't mess with me looks. Loved it! Especially in Black Color.
- Drive Experience: It feels so big after you get in however once you start driving it felt very easy to maneuver and move the SUV even in traffic laden highways I drove. Lot of credit to the steering wheel which gives lot of comfort and confidence. It weighed up really well at high speeds too.

Cons:
- 2 Years Waiting!
- Interiors while they feel great are not so good as XUV in my opinion.
- Rear Profile look could have been designed better.

By next week, I plan to book one (mostly XUV 700) and was keen to know from XUV 700 owners only one aspect i.e. Suspension Noise - Is it something that can be fixed and if not, is it something we can live with? I could only hear this noise over broken roads. On normal roads, the car felt very good.

I have requested the dealer to allow me an extended test drive next week to make up my mind.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Sachin_Nair

By next week, I plan to book one (mostly XUV 700) and was keen to know from XUV 700 owners only one aspect i.e. Suspension Noise - Is it something that can be fixed and if not, is it something we can live with? I could only hear this noise over broken roads. On normal roads, the car felt very good.

I have requested the dealer to allow me an extended test drive next week to make up my mind.

Sand gets inbetween the coil spring isolator and creates that noise, they fix it by cleaning it. I'm not sure if any permanent fix is available from the factory for new vehicles, maybe they need to add a sleeve for the McPherson strut to prevent sand from getting there, the one in our circle is very new and yet to come across this sound.

You do have to drive it fast to like it, it does not seem to enjoy being driven slowly, much like the XUV5OO.