[Poitive]

Originally Posted by shancz

1. Would suggest to include turbo petrols into your consideration but being chauffeur driven runs the risk getting poor FE since they're sensitive to throttle inputs.

I indeed have been wondering if I am being wise in not looking at Turbo Petrols. This post on the XUV700 thread by @84.monsoon especially got me thinking in terms of the value proposition:

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

...You get the full powered tune of the petrol engine with 200 HP and 380 NM, which is the same one that goes into the top AX7L trim.....
Both get all wheel disk brakes, Frequency-selective damping, and independent suspension, 8 inch infotainment with Android Auto - incredible features for a car priced 11.99/12.49 lakhs!

With a big saving as above, one might not mind the lower FE - 200BHP/380NM with a multilink with FSD is drool-worthy at that price! FE is a concern, however, as I my usage is highly uncertain and might even end up with 2k kms a month. Will look up more Turbo-petrol experiences on the forum. Thanks.

3. You're moving over from low slung sedans to higher cars due to comfort taking a priority. Aren't you going backwards on that requirement when you're compromising with the comfort issues on the Harrier and even more so on the Compass ?
I understand that the FTD of the Compass has smitten you but

The change from sedan to a higher vehicle is largely necessitated due to back issues and apprehension of those in the future. I do get your thought, however I am trying to get a balance of both sides. And you did get that right - I really am smitten by that Jeep Compass Drive. Maybe it is making me consider silly things

4. Since getting a car to your needs is a bit difficult than normal I would suggest to wait out for 1-2 years for the market to settle down.
Jeep's future plans would be clearer, maybe they launch the Meridian, 700's delivery would be streamlined, the chip shortage would've passed and more cars to choose from hopefully.

This can be dicey, with ever increasing input costs and consequent vehicle prices. I really don't expect them to come down once the chips shortage is handled - only possibly some discounts. The interim period would remain a challenge (as mentioned in my previous post/reply to Nikhil). Meridian of course is out of budget, but yes it would show more seriousness, yet I remain kind of skeptical about Jeep's future. Not having had issues withe Optra after it being discontinued and Chevy leaving India gives me some confidence, but that almost didn't need any out of schedule repairs in it's decade of ownership.

Get a used S-Cross (largest Maruti) Petrol till then

If I do go down that route, it would be based on:
a) ease of getting a reliable used vehicle (company certified?)
b) something I normally might not commit to for the long term.
{It just might give me the opportunity to try out something impractical and fun! A Thar? A Gurkha? A Sangyong Rexton? (without ever having driven one, I find it appealing}

c) Probably something from a higher price-band, considering if it turns out to be a good sample, I could hold on to it for a few more years.

Hope it helps and apologies if it confuses you further.
Good Luck

Come on, mate! The whole point of the thread is to bring in thought which one might not have considered (or given due weight to) otherwise. Thanks for your pov and wishes, @shancz

~~~~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by Poitive

Jeep Compass (Manual Diesel)
.....
Though there is much talk about Jeep exporting from India, the numbers are very small 10-12k in 4 years, IIRC.

Pardon the error. This is about 22k, (from approx Oct 2017 to March 2021). I thought I had corrected it in the draft, but evidently didn't.

~~~~~~~~~~
@Mods, I hope quoting Mayankk's post above would not be against forum norms (cross-posting). I thought it would convey the point effectively than copy past it, and also provide readers a cross-reference to the said discussion making for a better reading experience. Please delete/amend as deemed fit. Thanks.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

I indeed have been wondering if I am being wise in not looking at Turbo Petrols.

IMO it's worth a TD at least. The varying FE part is alleviated a bit if you get a well mated AT which gives a seamless experience with good FE unless one is flooring it .

Originally Posted by Poitive

I really don't expect them to come down once the chips shortage is handled - only possibly some discounts.

I meant shorter delivery times, I too don't expect them to give any discounts except for models they want to get rid of except VW who paint it matte and sell it for higher sans discounts

Originally Posted by Poitive

I remain kind of skeptical about Jeep's future.

Me too, a recent post about manufacturers likely to quit I had FCA at the top. Mainly because they don't really have the numbers and going by Ford's example it might be just out of the blue for customers at least.

Originally Posted by Poitive

{It just might give me the opportunity to try out something impractical and fun! A Thar? A Gurkha? A Sangyong Rexton?

Makes sense and so does the option to try something from a higher price bracket.

For your choices I have a feeling that the XUV700 might be the one, diesel or petrol, your preference for manual is a big advantage.

When you're at Mahindra do TD the XUV300 too, its quite spacious on the inside but I am not sure about the headroom in your case, especially at the rear.
I have driven the petrol, quite good and have heard that the diesel is a hoot to drive.
This will not be the car you want but might be a good option for an interim car if it fits.

[sidg]

Your requirements scream MG hector/hector plus. It is the most spacious in the given price range. Soft suspension means it will be safe for your back. The only downside is too much tech in the car. Longevity of all this tech is still a gamble. But then, almost all cars are/will be equipped with such tech in future.

[IshaanIan]

With the list of requirements being an airy spacious cabin with easy ingress/egress and not being too charmed by features, the S-Cross screams at me as the obvious choice. Sure it won't have the grunt of a Diesel so perhaps you can find a used 1.6 S-Cross? It is a Maruti so getting a detailed service history of the car shouldn't be a problem and that could help you find the right one

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by sidg

Your requirements scream MG hector/hector plus. It is the most spacious in the given price range. Soft suspension means it will be safe for your back. The only downside is too much tech in the car. Longevity of all this tech is still a gamble. But then, almost all cars are/will be equipped with such tech in future.

Thanks for sharing your views, mate.

MG Hector is very much on the cards, for much of the reasons you mentioned. I could only take low to somewhat moderate speed test drives of this, and based on that I have limited confidence in it's high speed behavior and composure (especially considering that I'm coming from a pretty low and composed sedan). Besides the FTD factor (likely?) being suspect, the backseat ride at high speeds also concerns me.

About tech, yes I'm concerned. Especially with how the planned obsolescence game is being played with other products and gradually being accepted as a way of life. This being a Chinese brand controlled by PLA doesn't add to the confidence (will avoid further political talk, it being an auto forum).

I ideally wanted a lower trim sans the excessive 'forever hearing you, and with the ability to upload it all to a server' model. However they seemed kind of too basic to appeal. The Smart variant has been discontinued and the sort-of replacement Shine variant is with a sunroof, which eats away into headroom. So an eavesdropping model and more prone to planned obsolescence model it'll likely be, if it is the Hector. Privacy is gradually becoming history.

They make it even more difficult by the 5 year warranty and any change to the audio system putting the warranty at risk. So a lower trim would leave me with an audio setup even worse than the top one, which I personally find wanting (as mentioned in my post above)

I miss the old days of cars, when things were simpler and more went towards engineering than ever increasing features; ones which possibly leave car decisions more to tables making comparisons than to cabin comfort and driving experiences.

[RR96]

A well researched thread. Liked your reviews. Do test drive the XUV7OO, I think you would end up with it. If I was in your place, I had choose between the Harrier and XUV7OO. You should consider the Safari only if you need those extra seats. Since you had initially considered Seltos in your list I recommend you should check out the Renault Duster 1.3 Turbo-petrol.

The Duster 1.3 is a fun to drive car with good ride quality and dynamics. Though it doesn't have a diesel engine option, the 1.3 turbo has good mid range and the torque to weight ratio is around 200 per tonne. Its quite spacious in its segment. Its size is perfect for city needs along with weekly highway drives, size wise you wouldn't find it difficult to shift to the Duster from Optra . I like its design even now though its been the same for years. But you would have to deal with the outdated interiors and features. Also the reliability of the service centre near you also matters. Do check it out, would like to hear your opinion and review.

[Risky4327]

As the Oracle told Neo "No, you've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it."

I never thought I would ever recommend Hector over Compass or Harrier, but in your case, due to knee discomfort issue, you won't be able to enjoy your new vehicle. Based on your own review, Hector is the only option.
Even if you like XUV700 after TD and let's say it satisfies your needs in terms of space, power and suspension, you won't be able to acquire it before 2023.

If you are going to spend around 20L, you shouldn't have to make compromises. Go for MG Hector.

[Poitive]

Folks, the replies may not be in the order the posts were made, as I might often end up replying to one from the phone, while between other tasks; so even if late, reply I will.

Originally Posted by shancz

For your choices I have a feeling that the XUV700 might be the one, diesel or petrol, your preference for manual is a big advantage.

Originally Posted by RR96

A well researched thread. Liked your reviews. Do test drive the XUV7OO, I think you would end up with it. If I was in your place, I had choose between the Harrier and XUV7OO. You should consider the Safari only if you need those extra seats.

Thanks for the views and kind words, shancz and RR96. There is much to like in the Harrier. The NVH is a bit of an issue, which is relatively easier to overlook, but it is the knee hitting the dash-console, which is troublesome. Between the Harrier and Safari, I preferred the cabin of the Harrier, find it more handsome by far, is cheaper and better to drive, and have no need for the extra seats (in fact, I find a 5 seater a bit more premium than a 7 seater in general) - so if at all, a Harrier it will be an not a Safari.

I have been trying to limit the TDs due to Corona, but I guess some will be well worth it. The hype the XUV700 is generating is going to make it to the next few to be Test Driven. I had it in mind pre-launch as well, and then became quite sure that it was not the one for me (will share basis later), but I probably was wrong and missed booking one then.

Since you had initially considered Seltos in your list I recommend you should check out the Renault Duster 1.3 Turbo-petrol.

The Duster 1.3 is a fun to drive car with good ride quality and dynamics. Though it doesn't have a diesel engine option, the 1.3 turbo has good mid range and the torque to weight ratio is around 200 per tonne. Its quite spacious in its segment. Its size is perfect for city needs along with weekly highway drives, size wise you wouldn't find it difficult to shift to the Duster from Optra

After your post, RR96, I did check the specs of the Duster. That is is bigger than the Jeep (wheelbase especially 2673 vs 2636), and close to Hector width makes it interesting. The classical non-sloping roof is also suitable (typically allows for more headroom on the rear seat). I was happy with the Optra's "dated" design, but it was a near perfect car for my purpose. I feel unsure about the Duster though, however a good interesting suggestion, mate; one which should not be struck off easily. Thanks.

I remember the older versions being famous for it's suspension and balance of an excellent ride and good handling, but I suppose that suspension that built Duster's reputation isn't available anymore. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

While checking out the Duster also noticed VW Taigun again. I wonder how it is in comparison to the others in question.

Driving and controlling a big car is hardly an issue for me. IIRC on very rough calculation had driven over half a million kms on Indian roads (primarily cities) when the Optra was bought a decade ago. The past decade has been way slower though. What concerns me is the infrequent trips to really crowded places, and frequent issues with finding parking (even at the local market).

Originally Posted by shancz

IMO it's worth a TD at least. The varying FE part is alleviated a bit if you get a well mated AT which gives a seamless experience with good FE unless one is flooring it.
~~~~~~
VW who paint it matte and sell it for higher sans discounts

I am only really looking at MT, so that would not be much of a worry. I didn't understand the VW part, mate.

When you're at Mahindra do TD the XUV300 too, its quite spacious on the inside but I am not sure about the headroom in your case

More likely, I'll be calling the XUV700 at home, but in case I do land up at the showroom, will certainly at least try the cabin of the XUV300 to start with. It just feels a segment lower to comparison, but one never knows when a surprise springs up (after all the much loved Optra too was not initially considered - and that is one of the reasons of the thread - to think what has not been thought of well enough before). I wonder how the 3 cylinder engine is to drive though.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

With the list of requirements being an airy spacious cabin with easy ingress/egress and not being too charmed by features, the S-Cross screams at me as the obvious choice. Sure it won't have the grunt of a Diesel so perhaps you can find a used 1.6 S-Cross? It is a Maruti so getting a detailed service history of the car shouldn't be a problem and that could help you find the right one

Thanks for your pov and wishes, IshaanIan. With the torque one got used to from the Optra's 230nm/tonne, I really doubt the S-Cross will feel like an acceptable shift. I did like the 1.6 version (IIRC managed similar torque to the Optra, which is fantastic!), but that is long gone. With only 10 years of life for a diesel in Delhi, a used one gets increasingly unattractive as a long-term solution.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

I didn't understand the VW part, mate.

That was for VW launching the matte editions of the Polo and the Vento at a higher price rather than offering discounts on the cars which will be phased out soon.

Smart move business wise though

On second thoughts you are right on the XUV300 and I doubt if it will be spacious enough so can be skipped for now to minimise risks. Can be revisited if you've to buy an interim car and can't find anything else.

Stay Safe.

[Turbolove]

Originally Posted by Poitive

If I do go down that route, it would be based on:
a) ease of getting a reliable used vehicle (company certified?)
b) something I normally might not commit to for the long term.
{It just might give me the opportunity to try out something impractical and fun! A Thar? A Gurkha? A Sangyong Rexton? (without ever having driven one, I find it appealing}

c) Probably something from a higher price-band, considering if it turns out to be a good sample, I could hold on to it for a few more years.

I see alot of used Hyundai Tucsons in your budget. It has plenty of power at 180bhp, in the front its certainly spacious and the ride and handling is really good in comparison to other Hyundai's. Please do check it out.

Also, from your reviews of the ride and handling of other cars, it seems the Taigun/Kushaq are the only ones that will make you happy. The car may not be as spacious as the competition, but the 1.5 MT combo will definitely keep you happy, plus with the cylinder-deactivation tech, you might get good highway mileage too.

[shashi792]

Hector or Hector Plus suits your bill. But, I would strongly suggest you to TD an automatic once. Probably start with Harrier (since it's already on the list). Even if you end up buying a manual, TD an automatic vehicle once.

The vehicles of the category in which you are looking are very practical with automatic than with Manual (the stress of driving & parking within city limits is easier).

[NitSat]

Originally Posted by shashi792

Hector or Hector Plus suits your bill. But, I would strongly suggest you to TD an automatic once. Probably start with Harrier (since it's already on the list). Even if you end up buying a manual, TD an automatic vehicle once.

The vehicles of the category in which you are looking are very practical with automatic than with Manual (the stress of driving & parking within city limits is easier).

I would second that. If you are facing any back issues, it’s better to go for automatic.

Do TD Harrier/ Safari duo in AT. They have done better justice to engine/ GB combo , than even Jeep. Also with automatic, the issue of left knee jutting against the console would be mitigated IMO.

Btw cudos for writing a ‘Concise Treatise of Cars in 15-20 lakh ‘ segment. It’s so extensive, that it should be used as a ready reckoner, for this segment.
Cheers.
NS

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Kia Seltos (diesel, manual) – Test Drive impressions

Kia Seltos - Summary

• Good handling. Nimble (good in city). Well controlled. Soft steering.
• Felt under-powered after the 2000cc 1370kg Optra. Sufficient, but not exciting. Decent brakes.
• Ride felt terribly harsh, coming from the Optra’s multilink to an almost unacceptable level.
• Fairly good ergonomics. Floor sunk-in while entering. Front ingress-egress was good. Good driving position.
• Rear felt highly claustrophobic (tall front seats adding to it). Just about legroom in the rear. Ingress-egress not great.
• Good form factor for the city. A refined experience, especially at lower RPMs.

Felt like a “senior-raised-hatch” with an excellent finish. Had a been of a smaller size (windows might have felt less claustrophobic in the rear) and not coming from an excellent suspension setup, things might have been different.

Quite ruled out.

Hyundai Creta
Based on the above, did not find it worth taking a TD of the Hyundai Creta, considering the wheelbase and other similarities between the two. Considering Corona, was trying to limit the TDs.

Please share your thoughts.

As an owner of the Creta, I would like to point out that while the Creta is on a similar platform, it's suspension is a middle- ground tune, neither as firm as the Seltos or as soft as the Hector. The Creta has a more comfortable rear seat than the Seltos inspite of the same footprint. Ergonomics wise, it's more or less the same. Do check it out before ruling it out entirely.

[superchamp]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Quickly dismissed:
Toyota Innova Crysta: Personal discomfort to Van/MPV look, Extra life over 10 years less meaningful. Too large for city use?

~~~~ Sort-of Rambling Ends ~~~~

I wouldn't take an early call on this. Crysta fit the bill perfectly IMO. I had the same apprehensions when i brought one but everything has been dismissed since I have started using it regularly. It is bulky for sure but for city driving it is same as any other SUV you have shortlisted. Parking is an issue at you cant squeeze it in to tight spaces. I have the AT one and it is completely fuzz free.
For long drives, i don't think any other car-suv-muv can beat the Crysta.
It is a bit expensive but if you look the preowned route, you may get a good deal plus you have the mental peace of reliability that only the Crysta offers you.

[quattroa4]

Why not Renault Duster 1.3 L Turbo ? 156 BHP + Excellent ride quality at any speed .
Through the Duster at any speed at any terrain , it never unsettles and in this ride department I don't think any other car comes close to it . Try at least a test ride.