[Ed1991]

Hello BHPians,

I'm new to the forum and writing to seek help from the experts here. Planning to upgrade from a 4.2m sedan to a 4.3m SUV.

[For main content: Skip the next 5 parts]

Currently, we own a 2015 Chevrolet Sail 1.3 diesel (our first ever car) which I convinced my dad to buy just because it wasn't a sub-4m sedan and that it fit our budget back then. We paid around 9.3L on road for the diesel as dad roughly covered 800km/month from 2016 to 2018 (until his retirement). Occasionally, I drove the car in the city and highways. We have now clocked about 53000kms. Back then, we never really test drove any other car in the segment (probably my stubbornness to go with the Sail). In fact, I did like it's somewhat proportioned looks (at least better than some sub 4m sedans - no offence intended) and we finally purchased it.

My dad was not very happy as he was more inclined to get the Swift Dzire / Honda Amaze diesel - just for the resale value. Well, I argued that resale value won't matter if we are not planning to sell. Enter 2017 and we hear news that GM India is shutting down . (I could hear unhappy background noises from dad) He was clearly not happy and wanted to take a poke at me. Now, here we are in 2022 with our Sail performing the basics and returning an efficiency of 19kmpl on highways and around 15kmpl in the city with full time A/C. No complaints there.

What is good with the Sail?

1. Fiat MJD 1.3 engine. Love the Torque (200nm). Turbo kicks in at 1.6K-1.7K RPM.
2. Space is good. Rear legroom is sufficient.
3. Decent boot at 373L. But appears to be larger.
4. Cabin is not claustrophobic (thanks to the beige interiors and space management)
5. Shorter gear throws.
6. Efficiency (called out above)
7. A/C is powerful.

What's not so good?

1. Outdated interiors (the dual tone upgrade didn't help much)
2. Cabin plastic quality is way better on lower priced cars. The one on the Sail is flimsy, thin plastic material). When applied pressure with one finger the plastic tends to bend. Knock on it, you will hear hollow sounds. Poor!
3. Turbo lag at lower speeds.
4. Bouncy ride on highways.
5. NVH levels are poor.
6. Hard cushioning of seats - not comfortable for long drives.
7. Resale value - that's a big question now.
8. Lot of niggles - door panel squeaks, dashboard squeaks, central locking auto unlocks during ride, power window gets stuck when rolling down.

Overall -
1. Mixed feeling on selling as it's our first car.
2. Does the job - commute from A to B.
3. Spacious and reliable engine. Fuel efficient.
4. Noisy (very) cabin at high speeds.
5. Ground clearance is okay at 174mm but becoming an issue due to poor roads in Bangalore.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now comes the main part:

At almost 7 years old, I feel the car is too outdated. Considering the closure of GM India, uncertain resale value and with newer technology available, the itch to buy a new car (4.3m SUV) has begun. I need suggestions from BHPians to go ahead.

What? - Looking for an upgrade to a 4.3m SUV.

When? - Planning for a new purchase in 2023-24.

How much? - Around 15L on road.

Tenure - Will intend to keep for 10 years easily.

Though I prefer a diesel (for it's obvious nature), but my usage would not justify. I would roughly clock around 200-300kms a month for city use and around 800-1000kms every quarter on highways.

My preferences:
1. 4.3m SUV/Crossover with good ground clearance.
2. Would prefer a Turbo (goes with my driving nature). Non-turbo is still fine.
3. Not after gizmos.
4. Looking for a comfortable, good-handling, engaging and reliable car.
5. Well proportioned car with good looks.
6. Alloy wheels.
7. Decent fuel efficiency.

Not looking for -
1. Sub 4m sedans/"SUVs".
2. Gizmos and flashy features.
3. Anything above 16L.

What have I shortlisted so far?

1. Nissan Kicks - Simply love the way it looks and it's stance. Great ground clearance at 210mm. Simple interiors with decent infotainment system. Standard alloy wheels from the 2nd base variant (XV). XV Turbo OTR Bangalore is around 15L. Haven't test driven yet. Would Kicks be a good buy post 2022? If yes, is the NA 1.5L okay for my requirements? (Though, I would prefer a Turbo). I don't want a Chevrolet Sail situation here. What if Nissan shuts down later? Even though some companies promise 10 years service continuity - I'm not quite sure.

2. Volkswagen Taigun - I know you might question my budget. But the car simply looks great doesn't it? Base version around 14L OTR Bangalore. How about cost of maintenance? Haven't test driven yet.

3. Kia Seltos - The HTK variant fits in the budget. Need to test drive. But too common on the road? Looking for something which stands out and not many drive it. But still, can consider.

4. Hyundai Creta - Personally don't like the way it looks.

5. Hyryder / Grand Vitara twins - Would it be a worthy buy? I have seen the launch and it's specifications. Need some insight.

6. S-Cross - Looks more of a car than SUV. End of days?

7. MG Astor - Liked it initially. Interest faded away after watching few reviews.


Seen some posts on the below:

1. A TATA 4.2-4.3m on the cards? (CURVV - ICE in 2024).
2. A 4.3m XUV500? Can we expect it?
3. Renault Duster - new generation?


Need your valuable inputs helping me take the right decision.

P.S. My first post. Pardon me if you found it too lengthy.

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[ajayc123]

If you are planning in 2023-24, we may have a number of new models by then.

If you want to modernize, strong hybrid like HyRyder, Grand Vitara, Honda City Hybrid ( more should come by the time you are ready to buy) or EV (If your use case permits).

If you want to look for a charming legacy pure ICE car, among the options you have listed, it could be Taigun, but 1.5 TSI (over 1.0 TSI).

I am thinking as above, for my next car in 23-24.

I know, my suggestions are over your budget, but in such situation, I would hold on to my existing car for a little longer to increase my budget.

[IshaanIan]

If you are actually serious about keeping the car for 10 years go for a 4 cylinder non-turbo Japanese car. an S-Cross or a WR-V or something of that sort would serve you well and give both you and your dad peace of mind for atleast a decade.

[Rajeevraj]

If you are planning in the 2023-24( assume you did not mean 22-23), it is probably too early to decide. The segment you are looking at is the hottest and fastest moving segment and a lot of things will change with respect to facelifts, new models etc in the next 1-2 years. More importantly, expect another 2-3 price hikes also. So a car in your budget now may not be 1+ years down the line(unless you increase your budget proportionally).

So unless you can pre-pone the purchase to this year, does not make sense to finalize now. You can closely follow the segment and see how it evolves over the next year before taking a call.

[JKBKS]

Mod Note : Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Poitive

Thanks for the elaborate reply, mate; took me a while to hunt out the said post(s).

6. If you're not in need of the things for which the Scorpio-N is made, you might be better served by others. Kicks, Harrier, and a variant of XUV700 which is in budget might be worth another look. Eventually, one will almost surely not get all one desires in the budget one sets for one's self, and then it becomes a matter of choosing which compromise hurts lesser for our own use-case and what we are willing to take a chance with.

Some things are easier to live with and can be partially improved over time, whereas others can't be. The ride of the Scorpio-N and steering feel etc are unlikely to change significantly (unless one goes for huge mods, which most don't find worthwhile), and there are things which can be improved later - such as taking a lower variant and upgrading some accessories later (eg - taking a lower variant of the XUV700 if it works for you).

Edit: @shancz: Pardon the late replies to your posts, but I think we have an understanding on such maters now; and such would be understood without specific mention onwards.

Very detailed review of Scorpio N Poitive!! Since we have been discussing which car to buy for sometime now, I agree with most of your observations. As you know I need to get a Petrol AT given my very low usage and long term ownership need and have booked XUV 700 AX5 Petrol AT in December last year. The only thing I was uncomfortable was with its large size since I was going to use it as a 5 seater. But with new Toyota Hyryder and Grand Vitara, I think the size issue could be resolved too. So I am seriously thinking of cancelling the XUV booking and go for Toyota Hyryder strong hybrid option, given it will be similarly priced, will have better mileage and be more manageable in traffic/hilly areas. And being a hybrid will make it a little future proof too.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by RijuC

I have uploaded the video clips of road conditions in my locality and my daily commute in YouTube. Posting the link here.

That video was eye opening, what a daily drive, hats off.
You need a proper automatic car with :
- excellent suspension
- powerful brakes : not much of a concern these days
- powerful headlights
- absolutely fuss free and reliable : can't imagine you being tossed around the rear seat of a cab on such roads.
- no A-pillar or any visibility obstructions
- relatively compact dimensions especially looking at how close the crossing traffic gets
- not very expensive to maintain : such roads aren't going to be easy on the vehicle
- good service network on far off areas : for those mountain getaways

What you need is a Citroen AirCross, made by Suzuki and available at the price of the Brezza, IMHO

Jokes apart, let's decide on the variables :
- Manufacturers : MSIL, TML, Mahindra, Hyundai and to some extent Toyota, Honda and Kia.
- Car type : SUV only considering the depth of the craters.
- Transmission : Automatic, considering your knee pain
- Fuel : Petrol considering the NCR rules and the +5 years of validity, 10 years down the line will offset the extra fuel costs considering your usage.

Some points :
- The maintenance of Skoda/VW will be expensive, especially coming from MSIL, the cars being able to handle those roads without extra maintenance is a valid point, especially with India 2.0 cars.
- The Harrier would score on the robustness and suspension but the A-pillar and knee console issue are blockers in your case, IMO.
- I agree that better to check the Grand Vitara on such roads and focus on the mild hybrid(K15C) versions.
But then the Brezza would feel peppier as it would have the same engine with lower weight(this is still an educated guess as I don't know how the Grand Vitara performs).
- Understand your point on the Scorpio but wouldn't that be too large for those roads ? I am not sure if its a good idea to get the Scorpio just because of those roads. In that case why not take a look at the Gurkha ? People might not be willing to cut across that much ?

So your choices, IMO, are narrowing down to the Scorpio, the Grand Vitara and the Brezza(if your digestion improves).
I would suggest the Brezza, mainly because the others seem like an overkill, IMHO.
If I had to buy it I would get the XUV300 MT(only). The first time I drove one was on similar roads but Mahindra's AMT decision is playing spoilsport in your case.

Originally Posted by Ed1991

1. Nissan Kicks - I don't want a Chevrolet Sail situation here.
2. Volkswagen Taigun - How about cost of maintenance?
3. Kia Seltos - Looking for something which stands out and not many drive it.
5. Hyryder / Grand Vitara twins - Would it be a worthy buy?
6. S-Cross - Looks more of a car than SUV. End of days?

Welcome to TBHP.

1-6 : all your concerns are valid and true, IMO.

I second Rajeevraj's opinion that its too early to shortlist a car now for a purchase in 2023-24, the market will change a lot by then. Till then enjoy your time with the Sail.

Originally Posted by Ed1991

1. A TATA 4.2-4.3m on the cards? (CURVV - ICE in 2024).
2. A 4.3m XUV500? Can we expect it?
3. Renault Duster - new generation?

No idea on any of those but this is precisely the point, the market will change a lot by then and who knows any/all of the above could be true

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by RijuC

This brand new car has a loud bang/ clang sound and little vibration due to this banging of something metallic whenever I pressed the brake pedal. The SA told it happens in all brand new cars.

Is it true?

Newly set brakes can make a bit of noise, especially drum brakes, however one ideally expects a dealership to take care of such stuff by some trial runs with brake use. It is also usually not as loud as what the descriptions suggests to me. To see how much of an issue it may be, it might be worth scanning reports on the Kushaq and if others, especially owners, reported any such problems. This just might have been a one-off case with the TD car and it alone should not be the reason to rule out a car.

Originally Posted by RijuC

I have uploaded the video clips of road conditions in my locality and my daily commute in YouTube...
...

This is the primary reason for my interest in Scorpio N. Otherwise I am a budget oriented car buyer.

Due to my extreme knee pain, Automatic transmission becomes a must. AMT becomes a constraint to ensure safe overtakes in narrow undivided highways ...Options are-

1. Toyota Urban Cruiser ...
2. Nissan Kicks 1.3 CVT ...
3. New Brezza ...
4. Kushaq 1.0 Ambition classic AT ...
5. MS GV Smart Hybrid ZETA AT (not the actual hybrid model) ...
6. Harrier...
7. Scorpio N...

As shancz also said, the video is revealing. It might be a good idea to put your budget and requirements in a post for other members to be able to read and understand them well (I got a sense of them based on your posts here and on other threads; Scropio-N mainly).

After seeing the video, semi-formed thoughts are as follows:

• If going for a Maruti, ensure it is not the "typical Maruti", as it is likely to get squeaky under such stress over time. Hyundai too might be similar.
• Besides AT, you quite need a soft/softish suspension, and not a handling oriented stiff one. What feels good on decent open roads on a TD might feel like a pain on regular runs.
• While an HPS might be great on hill and highway drives, if you are not used to one, you might be better served by an EPS despite very limited feedback in most. After some weeks/months of use, you just might love the HPS too unless softness of steering at low speeds is a prime concern.
  Some views on HPS vs EPS are here and here.
• You need at least a somewhat rugged vehicle which can take some abuse if most of it's run is going to be as in the video. Ideally one which which is not too expensive to repair.
• It is rare to find that perfect car, and one is left to choose which compromise one can make, and to evaluate how much of a compromise an aspect is in one's use case and for one's disposition.

With the above in mind, I'd say:

• Kushaq: Skoda and VW don't really have a stellar reputation for pocket friendly and user friendly repairs. You'll find @heydj on the thread talking about his Skoda, and many threads on the forum about issues with Skoda service. People go for them knowingly as their need for a certain kind of handling is met by only a few brands and they find it worth taking their chances. In your case, it might not be the ideal thing, unless of course, you've fallen in love with it, and don't mind keeping some amount in a Skoda-repair kitty.
  
  Though I haven't driven it, I am pretty sure it's suspension would be set on the firmer side, which might not serve you too well.
  .
• Nissan Kicks: It is worthy of proper consideration. I can't talk about the dealers etc and how relevant their spread might be in your case, and how it might compare to a Skoda.
  
  The Kicks did come across as a hardy vehicle, and one of the right size for your kind of use - not too big, and not too small to be pushed around. It has good GC and built on the proven Duster platform (posts on this earlier in this thread). The suspension setup in this might be best suited for your use case - soft enough to not be bothersome and hard enough to not be wallow. A good balance between comfort and control (please check the TD report on the thread for more). It has an HPS, which one might find hard to begin with, but might appreciate a lot in hill drives (more on this in the links above).
  
  The other issue with Kicks might be about the longevity of the company in India. They did cover a 10 lakh export milestone recently, though.
  
  Being a petrol you get those extra 5 years of usage. FE would be much influenced by how you drive it - for your daily runs, you could keep it sedate, and once in a while enjoy the punch the engine offers.
  .
• Harrier: Many have praised the good combo of the gearbox and engine. It came across as a toughly built vehicle, and one with a good chassis+suspension setup. IIRC I specifically appreciated how it was over poor roads. In both this and the Kicks, you'll feel the road conditions on the steering to know what it is like, while the suspension will quite isolate you from the surface - almost the opposite of the Scorpio-N, as mentioned in it's report. I haven't checked specifically but the Harrier's repairs should be easy on the pocket, it being a Tata. The bad part is that niggles are still reported years after it being launched. NVH notwithstanding, it is a good vehicle for your use case - those roads, highways, hills.
  
  As before, the knee-console issue has been talked on the thread a few times, and also "quite solved" in my case. The A-pillar issue is something which might become lesser with use of the car, but if it bothers you, it is unlikely it will totally disappear. I didn't find that to be an issue in my drives.
  .
• XUV700: If you can wait, much which is suitable in that too. Many variants to choose from. Easy EPS, very comfortable seat etc. The suspension has some issues on rough roads at slow speeds, but one can hope that by the time you get yours the issues would have been sorted. More in the TD report. The diesel should give decent FE for it's size. You'll love the extra bhp/tonne and NM/tonne this one has over the others - it would be addictive.
  .
• Scropio-N: I'd say the others suit your use case better.

I think you should somehow manage hour long TDs in the Kicks, Harrier, and the XUV700 and then take a call. Besides the TD, one can spend some time in the cabin in a stationary vehicle too to get some feel of the car. With what I can gather of your needs, a better car with less features might be a better pick than a poorer car with more features.

All the best for your hunt

Originally Posted by JKBKS

Very detailed review of Scorpio N Poitive!!

1. As you know I need to get a Petrol AT given my very low usage and long term ownership need and have booked XUV 700 AX5 Petrol AT in December last year. The only thing I was uncomfortable was with its large size since I was going to use it as a 5 seater.

2. But with new Toyota Hyryder and Grand Vitara, I think the size issue could be resolved too. So I am seriously thinking of cancelling the XUV booking and ...

Thanks JKBKS mate!

I am a bit surprised at you mentioning the size mate, as you've been driving the Scorpio (now, Classic) for a long time!

You are amongst the very few in an enviable position to actually use that petrol engine on the XUV700 with those figures! Your low use scenario allows it. It is the only petrol unit (in affordable vehicles) which pulls me towards it. Being used to the Scorpio, the much lighter Hyryder and Vitara are unlikely to give you the satisfaction an XUV700 petrol is likely to provide. They are also likely to be less hardy for rough use.

Unless size is a major hindrance in your case, based on what I've been able to gather of your needs, I think you'll enjoy life with the XUV700 a lot better - petrol, or even diesel.

Anecdote: One of our family friends who drove an Innova for a decade, surprisingly thought of a Honda City as the replacement. Told him that he's unlikely to enjoy it after being used to the heft of the Innova. He went ahead an got the City, and now complains about finding it too boring and how people now cut in front of his car like never before . Likely his next car change (one of the other cars would be up for change in the next few years) will be to an Innova or other heavier and larger vehicle.

PS: Had written this reply yesterday, and forgot to post it! Thankfully it was retained in the browser.

[JKBKS]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Thanks JKBKS mate!
I am a bit surprised at you mentioning the size mate, as you've been driving the Scorpio (now, Classic) for a long time!

You are amongst the very few in an enviable position to actually use that petrol engine on the XUV700 with those figures! Your low use scenario allows it. It is the only petrol unit (in affordable vehicles) which pulls me towards it. Being used to the Scorpio, the much lighter Hyryder and Vitara are unlikely to give you the satisfaction an XUV700 petrol is likely to provide. They are also likely to be less hardy for rough use.

Unless size is a major hindrance in your case, based on what I've been able to gather of your needs, I think you'll enjoy life with the XUV700 a lot better - petrol, or even diesel.

Anecdote: One of our family friends who drove an Innova for a decade, surprisingly thought of a Honda City as the replacement. Told him that he's unlikely to enjoy it after being used to the heft of the Innova. He went ahead an got the City, and now complains about finding it too boring and how people now cut in front of his car like never before . Likely his next car change (one of the other cars would be up for change in the next few years) will be to an Innova or other heavier and larger vehicle.

PS: Had written this reply yesterday, and forgot to post it! Thankfully it was retained in the browser.

Thanks Buddy for vouching for the XUV700 Petrol. It sure is a natural choice for a new car for me, given the available choices and budget. That's why I booked it without even test driving it!

But due to the long wait, I got a chance a reevaluate my needs with more clarity. Below are some facts/dilemma points that I face:

1. As my kids have learnt driving, I need an additional car. And I feel Scorpio is too big for novice drivers so getting a smaller car makes more sense. And it has to be a Petrol, given the government policy decisions/inclinations against diesel vehicles
2. I plan to retire in hills instead of NCR (although there is still some time in that or at least that's what I would like to think!!) and I saw in my recent travels there that hilly roads in UK/HP are not much wider so a smaller car will be better from that perspective
3. As my 2009 Scorpio as its running fine and I will hardly get anything for it if I were to sell it so am thinking of holding onto it. And have just installed a 10 inch Android to make it a little high tech and am looking to install LED headlamps now.

In this light I am thinking about the need for having 2 big cars and think a smaller car [read Urban Cruiser (UC) and not Hyryder] will be a better bet. Given great discounts on UC (~40-45K), its top model is has really become an attractive option...

[saurabh041086]

Any owners of Scorpio who have the non projector headlight setup. How is the output on dark roads with halogen bulbs?

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by JKBKS

Thanks Buddy for vouching for the XUV700 Petrol...
...Below are some facts/dilemma points that I face:

1. As my kids have learnt driving,...
2. I plan to retire in hills ... I saw in my recent travels there that hilly roads in UK/HP are not much wider so a smaller car will be better from that perspective
3. As my 2009 Scorpio as its running fine ...

In this light I am thinking about the need for having 2 big cars and think a smaller car [read Urban Cruiser (UC) and not Hyryder] will be a better bet...

Most welcome, mate. I get what you're saying and agree that Scorpio might not be the best to start driving on, if one lives in the city. Some thoughts:

• How about getting a hatchback now - large, small, new, used etc based on budget and other factors. A used one might make the kids less nervous to learn/practice on, as they'd be less worried about scratching it etc. One can choose this based on whether one wants to keep it short term and based on depreciation, or as a long term second car for the family. One could also choose an MT, as I think it is good to learn on MT and get a good feel of how a car really works, and then shift to AT, if needed. This could also be used as the beater car, if there is such a need.
  .
• An XUV700 petrol could replace the Scorpio when the time is right. Wishing the Scorpio a long health life with you, but with 13 years gone, the government and it's state might warrant a change.
  
  That way you still have one large and one small (and perhaps replaceable car with changing needs, if bought second hand), and one highly desirable, comfortable, and enjoyable one
  .
• About Himachal and Uttrakhand hills - not much in the recent past, but over the years, have traveled a fair bit on those and more (when roads were smaller) in all sorts of vehicles and on all sorts of roads - from the major ones, to the really interior ones, to ones which were roads only in name, to ones where one might not cross another car for hours, and for an experienced driver the size of the car would rarely be a significant enough issue. Yes, a smaller one might be more convenient the odd time, or if one is going on the urban-hills (mall-road types), but it is hardly big enough to be a significant factor. All sorts of Mahindra vehicles can be seen running as group-taxis across the hills - they manage quite a pace (have been in some, and it is fun, but smelly ). A somewhat bigger and more comfortable vehicle might bring more advantages, especially one with a sorted suspension and high torque. Parking can be an issue in some areas, of course.
  .
• Many private plots in the hills have steep entrances. A high torque vehicle often works more sure footedly; more so on wet surfaces.

Hope you reach a good and happy decision

Originally Posted by saurabh041086

Any owners of Scorpio who have the non projector headlight setup. How is the output on dark roads with halogen bulbs?

I hope JKBKS above can help with this. A querry on Scorpio focused threads - Official or Ownership reviews - might give a better chance on an answer.

Originally Posted by Ed1991

Hello BHPians,

My preferences:
1. 4.3m SUV/Crossover with good ground clearance.
2. Would prefer a Turbo (goes with my driving nature). Non-turbo is still fine.
3. Not after gizmos.
4. Looking for a comfortable, good-handling, engaging and reliable car.
5. Well proportioned car with good looks.
6. Alloy wheels.
7. Decent fuel efficiency.

Not looking for -
1. Sub 4m sedans/"SUVs"....

Welcome to the forum, mate.

Like others have said, you do have time to wait it out to see how the choices open up and what closes down. (Long waiting for new cars like the XUV700 does make one reconsider that though). Just adding a few thoughts to munch on in the meantime:

• Comfortable and engaging is often difficult to find. Comfort usually would need a somewhat soft suspension, and that takes away from the crispness of a sharp agile handling. Finding the personal balance between the two is what one needs to look at.
  .
• Besides a firm suspension, what would make a drive engaging is the steering feel. Many who have grown with an EPS don't relate enough to it, and for such, it might take more time with an HPS to appreciate it. Have shared 2 links on HPS vs EPS in the reply to @RijuC in a recent post, which you might find useful. Though they are on the Safari thread, the posts are more generally about the steering types.
  .
• A peppy engine also helps in making a drive more enjoyable. More on this below.
  .
• From what you say, unless there are some issues with the company and service, from the driving, suspension and cabin comfort, the Nissan Kicks is a good bet with it's HPS (makes it more engaging) and the apt balance in suspension - soft enough to be comfortable, hard enough to be enjoyable. They have managed much headroom despite the GC and overall height and was very enjoyable to drive - a bit like a Jeep Compass on a budget, which is a lot to say. Please check the Test Drive report (pages mentioned in the first post of this thread).
  .
• The NA version, I expect would be more practical to use day to day, and the turbo is fun and vocal.
  .
• Though you said no sub 4m, do check the XUV300. The diesel has an excellent Torque to weight ratio. The inside space with it's 2600mm wheelbase is more spacious than what one might expect, which leads to a compromised boot. The inside space to outside dimensions ratio is pretty good in this one, and came across as a thoughtfully designed vehicle made to international standards and a cut above what one might otherwise expect from Mahindra (it is based on the SSangyong Tivoli).

Originally Posted by RijuC

Due to my extreme knee pain, Automatic transmission becomes a must. AMT becomes a constraint to ensure safe overtakes in narrow undivided highways and does not respond when I need some extra performance suddenly...

Missed this point in the earlier reply. The XUV300 could generally be used in Manual mode. No clutch or knee issues. While gentle cruising one can engage the AMT. Good FE. That way a good vehicle like the XUV300 remains on the list and things remain in budget.

All the best.

[JKBKS]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Most welcome, mate. I get what you're saying and agree that Scorpio might not be the best to start driving on, if one lives in the city. Some thoughts:[list][*] How about getting a hatchback now - large, small, new, used etc based on budget and other factors.
[*]An XUV700 petrol could replace the Scorpio when the time is right.
[*] About Himachal and Uttrakhand hills - Yes, a smaller one might be more convenient the odd time, or if one is going on the urban-hills (mall-road types), but it is hardly big enough to be a significant factor. All sorts of Mahindra vehicles can be seen running as group-taxis across the hills.

I hope JKBKS above can help with this. A querry on Scorpio focused threads - Official or Ownership reviews - might give a better chance on an answer.

Thought about the used cars too but these cost nearly as much as the new cars these days. Further I am not comfortable buying used cars as I dont know who has driven it and in what fashion. So my instincts are to go for the new cars.

Reg XUV700, my heart is till set on it. That's why have not cancelled it yet. Delivery is shown to be in Jan.2023 so still have time to dwell on this.

Regarding the hills usage of a smaller car, I agree with you my friend! After driving all sorts of cars in last 30 years, handling a car is no longer an issue. Am trying to justify the small car buy by conjuring up circumstances that may come up in far future (another 10 years at the very least)

After putting on the Android touchscreen/rear camera, I am also on the lookout for LED headlamp bulbs. Saw a few (with good reviews) listed on Amazon.in but am yet to make up mind so cant help much here I am afraid. The best sellers list is here just in case: https://www.amazon.in/gp/bestsellers...rsr_automotive

[tp_dominator]

A question here to @poitive.

Why not take the test drive of the Hyundai Alcazar D AT once? I for one would love to hear your thoughts and observations about it even if it is not in your consideration set. I love the way you analyze and write about the TD experiences and could relate to most of the points observed by you. Even I find the knee-hitting issues in Harrier/Safari and Compass quite annoying. Consider it my request and do take and share your views on the Hyundai Alcazar too since its also close to the budget range mentioned by you.

[Poitive]

Scropio-N, Alturas G4 - Correction

Originally Posted by Poitive

Alturas G4 link: ... The design of this one increasingly seems to have started with the Alturas G4 (Ssangyong Rexton G4 - Y400) ...

• Both have double-wishbone in the front (common for BoF), and a 5-link independent suspension in the rear...

Originally Posted by Poitive

B3. Cabin Feel and Space
... Legroom at the back was okay. Just about enough for a 6’ person behind another 6’ person. Nothing comes close to the Hector on this front. Nothing special for this daddy-size vehicle. Well, it is also kind of understandable. Both the XUV700 and this have independent suspensions at the rear and that takes more space as compared to the torsion bar used in the Hector, Harrier/Safari and most others (Compass too has an independent). This takes away from some interior space....

Apologies mates. The Scropio-N does not come with an independent suspension. The 5-link confused me. While 5 links usually mean better control over wheel settings, and is often/typically used in independent suspensions, in the case of Scorpio-N it is a rigid axle on the rear, as is the case for the Alturas. The confusion also happened due to the Ssangyong Rexton G4 (a rebadged version of which the Alturas really is) being made in two different rear suspension setups. The ones being sold in UK and Australia (AFAIK) have an independent suspension and some have a rigid live axle with 5 links as in the case of the Alturas (and Scorpio-N). This explains a part of the suspension character observed - which I could not do to satisfaction due to a lack of broken roads as mentioned in the drive experience.

Have shared what I understood till now. Someone who is an expert on suspensions might want to confirm the above.

~~~~~

Originally Posted by JKBKS

1. Thought about the used cars too ...

2. Reg XUV700, my heart is till set on it. That's why have not cancelled it yet. Delivery is shown to be in Jan.2023 so still have time to dwell on this.

3. Regarding the hills usage of a smaller car, I agree with you my friend! After driving all sorts of cars in last 30 years, handling a car is no longer an issue.

4. Am trying to justify the small car buy by conjuring up circumstances that may come up in far future (another 10 years at the very least)

5. I am also on the lookout for LED headlamp bulbs...

1. We have similar feelings about used vehicles. I suggested a used one as an interim one for the kids to get used to driving without being in fear of damaging a high-value new possession.

2. I hope you do not cancel it till the time you get your new vehicle home, whichever it may be. From what I gather, AX5 in particular might be available sooner than other variants, but that info has been about diesels. A delivery much before the promised date would not surprise me.

3. An experienced driver, just as I thought mate - which is why I had specifically mentioned it. It is a bit like the heart wants you to get an XUV Petrol

4. I know what you mean. I too have swings from allowing myself to splurge more with "reasons" like - the last diesel, probably the last pure ICE car, probably the last ICE car as such and so on, to reality and thoughts of various scenarios in the upcoming years making me "wake up" and not get carried away!

5. Thanks. Now, I wonder if @saurabh041086 is even reading.

~~~~~

Originally Posted by tp_dominator

A question here to @poitive.

Why not take the test drive of the Hyundai Alcazar D AT once? I for one would love to hear your thoughts and observations about it even if it is not in your consideration set. I love the way you analyze and write about the TD experiences and could relate to most of the points observed by you...

Thanks, mate. The reasons for not test driving the above mentioned are as follows:

• I have been used to a very torquey vehicle for long - the Optra Magnum with over 300Nm on a 1.37 tonne vehicle, with a good torque spread. After that, even the Seltos felt underwhelming when pushed a bit (reported in the TD).
  
  With the Alcazar sharing the same engine and being much heavier, I can only expect it to be more lethargic in comparison. If gear ratios are changed, it might make things better, but that would come at the cost of FE.
  .
• The Alcazar has more weight towards the rear. I expect it to be poorer dynamically too. Being more family focused, it could also well be more softly sprung; which if true, would again lead to poorer handling, though probably more comfort.
  .
• The petrol engine is a good one, and IIRC is the same on the Tuscon (outgoing model) and Elantra (recently stopped), but that is likely to also be very fuel hungry (and being Naturally Aspirated, also without that kick of power one has enjoyed from the Optra Magnum).
  .
• I am also more focused on MT than on AT. Besides the budget, the other major reason to not consider the Tucson was that it only came as an AT. The kind of control and predictability that an MT gives is way more enjoyable for me. The idea of being unsure how the engine's torque might be delivered which accompanies an AT is highly unappealing to me. Though more sedate now, my instincts are towards harder driving; at least being prepared to do so.

Though it is often not difficult to be on the forum, taking time out for TDs has not so simple for me for a while, which is why the TDs have taken as long. I had to politely indicate even to some friends that I might not be able to TD a vehicle they were considering buying for the same reason. This is not a permanent situation and keeps changing due to various factors - in the past, have even Test Driven for mates on T-Bhp to help them pick a vehicle.

The one on my list, which I have not really pushed hard enough to try (it wasn't available the couple of times I tried) is the XUV300 Diesel, which I expect will be an excellent vehicle, though lacking a bit in space (legroom in the rear) as compared to the bigger ones, besides the really small boot-space.

[JKBKS]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Scropio-N, Alturas G4 - Correction

2. I hope you do not cancel it till the time you get your new vehicle home, whichever it may be. From what I gather, AX5 in particular might be available sooner than other variants, but that info has been about diesels. A delivery much before the promised date would not surprise me.
3. An experienced driver, just as I thought mate - which is why I had specifically mentioned it. It is a bit like the heart wants you to get an XUV Petrol
[*]I am also more focused on MT than on AT. Besides the budget, the other major reason to not consider the Tucson was that it only came as an AT.

The moment I took the XUV700 Petrol AT test drive, I knew it was the car that I need...it had a great pick-up, good brakes (with all 4 discs) and steering was responsive with a good suspension along with a good music system thrown in. It is all that I essentially need in a car!! Given that I still enjoy driving a 2009 Scorpio, XUV700 was a no brainer. So I am going to stick with the booking and let's see how it goes

But a sort of habit that I have developed over last few years is in trying to find a value in big purchases and that's what is complicating things now. I can avail of my company car lease program to get XUV700 but I want a BH number plate as I don't see myself staying here for the next 5-7 years. And Karnataka is yet to start offering BH series for private sector employees. Since a court case is on, I am hoping that XUV delivery (its Jan.2023 timeline as of now) gets sufficiently delayed to coincide with a positive court ruling.

I am also eyeing Tucson as it could be last pure ICE purchase, as you rightly pointed out. It's a little expensive and thus not a good value per me but it sure is a great car in terms of refinement, safety and driving. And I might put my value buying instincts aside for a moment if I could figure out the BH plate problem

[RijuC]

All my friends are saying Harrier is a good car, and I could also see numerous Harriers everywhere including the tough terrains of the hill states. However, as I said earlier my brief TD experience in Harrier was not that great, primarily because of the following (in descending order):

1. Knee rubbing against central console wall,
2. A-pillar view obstruction,
3. Reliability concern- lots of horror stories in social media, TaMo service centre concerns, could see maximum Harriers in the adjoining service centre of the dealership,
4. The TD car didn't age well (40k km on odo)- felt like 10 years old car,
5. Switchgears and parking brake release button were not smooth to operate, weird parking brake design,
6. Noisy cabin, audible diesel engine cluster,

Detailed TD is required to comment on the broken roads/ no tarmac surface condition (however, I assume it would be good).

My friends say you are wrong, Harrier is one of the best SUV in the market. Few of them are Nexon owner, and one owns the Harrier. He is very much satisfied and has done multiple GGN-Bangalore trips during lockdown. He says his family members are also very happy.

So, the query is- am I too much fussy about small/ minute issues? Or my concerns are also felt by other members here?