[Poitive]

Originally Posted by SinghP09

- Don't think it's a fair comparison IMHO as both are completely different categories.
- I have been telling everyone, i would have bought Kushaq if it was a foot wider and foot longer

- Hector steering was decent...

Thanks.

I for one happily compare some aspects across categories. Like, I enjoyed the Maruti 800's steering more than the XUV700

Why I ask about the Hector, and more so from you is because you too are coming from an HPS steering and it would be good to get another view. My TD of the Hector was way back and I can't recollect it as well as I'd like (the MG showroom chaps near me are also acting a bit funny and some pretty unprofessional stuff from MG company itself too).

It is not the lightness that I desire in a steering, but want good feedback which is typical of HPS and uncommon in mainstream vehicles with an EPS. More specifically, the question in my mind was:

How is the steering of Hector with respect to feel/feedback?
(Does it help in feeling connected to the vehicle while driving it?)

- A foot wide! Hahaha. I don't fancy that one bit. More seriously, you make me reconsider dropping the Tiagun/Kushaq.

Originally Posted by shancz

- The last thing I would've imagined looking at the exterior was that the rear headroom won't work for you and Nissan just turned that assumption on its head, kudos Nissan.

- The 1.3 turbo's analysis

- With most options being exhausted are you willing to try out the Meridian ? Hopefully it doesn't have the knee issue and better rear seat space.

- I presume you meant "rear headroom will work". I too was surprised at how much better than the Compass it was. I guess it was to do with a lower seat. It might affect shorter users who expect thigh support.

- The 1.3 might not disappoint many. Comparing it with 2 litre diesels is unfair - just didn't work for my needs and benchmarks.

- Jeep Meridian is quite certainly off the cards for a few reasons:
* My concern with Jeep to start with (mentioned as bullet points in the Compass TD)
* Niggles with a new vehicle (also have that concern about the XUV700)
* Most of all, the budget. I was finding it hard to justify the Compass to myself. Can't see the Meridian being justified over say, the Hector.

The way I am looking at my spend: Spend comfortably up to about 18-20L (even if splurge a bit), and beyond that make every extra rupee spent count as 4x. If I don't put limits I would take totally irrational decisions about car purchases .

As discussed before, I think I'll end up testing some of the cars again. That seems to be the way forward to get clear on what compromises are more acceptable.

Originally Posted by heydj

Folks need help - I have had an opportunity to do TD of below mentioned cars and need help in deciding few things:

- Jeep Compass Petrol vs Diesel MT. How much % is Diesel better? Is it better enough to disregard NCR 10 year rule?
- Jeep Compass P MT vs XUv 700 P MT which is better in terms of service? Fun to drive? Long term ownership?
- Jeep Compass P MT vs Tucson P AT. Disregarding gear box which is better in terms of fun? Build? Service?

We can disregard features and only focus on technical capabilities. Also budget is ranging from 16L to 25L hence all models above are on table. Also AT vs MT does not matter as I only drive on weekends.

Any other recommendation in budget. Only criteria is technical capabilities and fun to drive.

Mate, I was hoping someone who has more direct experience with the aforementioned vehicles might respond. My 2 paisa:

If the Kick's engine with similar specs as the Jeep Compass Petrol is anything to go by, I would skip the Compass Petrol in a jiffy. The Diesel Compass actually felt good, and no comparison to the Kicks petrol. I would happily overlook the 10 year rule for this kind of a difference. If things are similar to how they are now, I plan to sell the diesel I get at around the 9th year to someone outside Delhi.

The XUV700 petrol has some serious figures, but the Kicks too sounded good on paper. Why not a XUV700 Diesel, mate? The engine was actually very good. From Mahindra, it also feels more reliable. Better FE and likely resale too, if for any reason you need to sell it.

Tucson, based on figures, not sure if the petrol would satisfy you considering the other cars on your list and your earlier posts. If you can stretch the budget a bit look at the Tucson diesel too. Ones who own is appreciate it a lot. Tony2298 might be able to add here. 400Nm Torque, and Hyundai's service would be pluses. Lack of some features and modern interiors, which puts people off aren't your focus anyway. It has a mulitilink suspension; and I'm told an excellent AT and is pretty composed.

Had the Tucson been available with a manual transmission, and in my budget even if it didn't have any fancy features, I'd have given it a serious hard look and might well have ended with it (of course if it passed the TD test).

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

- I presume you meant "rear headroom will work".
- If I don't put limits I would take totally irrational decisions about car purchases .
- get clear on what compromises are more acceptable.

- I meant that in some earlier post I had mentioned that it didn't seem from the exterior that it would have rear headroom to suit your needs. But anyway not important anymore.

- Good point on the Meridian and expenses

- Looking forward to the TDs

[Tony2298]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Nissan Kicks – Turbo Petrol MT

Warm greetings to you! I really do like reading your posts, it's full of detailed insights, attention to detail and I really feel like I or any other reader for that matter has been a part of the test during your test driving experience. The Nissan Kicks was definitely. a very good car but it lost its potential when Nissan group decided to kill of their fantastic 1.5K9K Diesel engine, yeah that engine did had lag below 1800rpm or so but the there was a strong tug when you crossed past the 200rpm mark or so, also unlike modern-day turbo petrols even if you drive it like a maniac it would always give you very good fuel efficiency at the end of the day. This is the reason why I still love diesels even in todays day and age and even after so many potential problems of BS6 diesels only because we can have our cake and eat it too, also diesels due to the virtue of their engineering have a L-O-N-G life span and if maintained well even modern day turbo-diesels can easily run lakhs of kilometres without any fuss. There are quite a number of examples in front of us isn't it?, the Innovas and Fortuners used in the commercial mode have 5-6 lakhs kilometres on their odo and still run like day 1, in our very own forum BHPian @jonesanto has his Elantra CRDi run for about 4lakhs and still its performing very well, even the notorious VAG diesel cars are very reliable in general as compared to their turbo-petrol counterparts. Sorry for going a bit off-topic but I would strongly suggest you to buy a good diesel car only as its probably the last time we could buy one before there is an onslaught of clean, silent Electric cars.

Combined with the steering feel, as compared to the Optra Magnum: it felt a bit sharper in steering response, comparably composed at moderate speeds (though for an emergency, the Magnum scores way more due to it’s low centre of gravity)...

The more I read about Optra Magnum the more I realise how gem of a car was it. Yeah, the interiors might have been a bit boring but the engine, ride and handling and even the durability part was very good. Same case with the Cruze which we all know even today holds a special place in the hearts of diesel heads. Its so sad that GM and Ford, both American giants left the show without even trying once with their full heart and soul because if they did dare I say that they would have been right up there or even exceeded the Koreans in the pursuit of gaining market-share and was it all too difficult for them? I don't think so, they just needed a fresh approach, launch some products which suits an average Indian Joes' requirements perfectly and rationalise their service costs and improve their dealer network, considering that both are giants and have turnover reaching billions of dollars, I don't think so it would have posed a huge challenge but in return they would have been rewarded with a huge revenue considering we buy almost equal amount of cars as in developed countries like Germany for instance. A food for thought.

So, you might ask me: have you finally found your elusive ride, Poitive? Read on.

The day when it finally happens and when I load up the Team-BHP page and I find the post titled Poitive's New Car would definitely be one of the happiest days of my life and believe me man, even though we haven't ever met each other during our life(or maybe had met but didn't recognise each other then, who knows?!) I have realised that we indeed share a lot in common and especially when talking about cars we are extremely like-minded given the fact that we both love diesels, are a bit of connoisseur and pay a lot of attention to even the smallest(but very significant) things which even the showroom people themselves don't know! I really wish all the best for your new car journey and hope that the car you buy meets most of your requirements, at least I did find mine. A bit off-topic but your long posts about checking out cars, taking note of each and every thing almost reminds me of one of my friend who was searching for his perfect girlfriend all of his college life but at last couldn't find any and had to take the route of arranged marriage.

It was a big let-down, as I half expected

Its absolutely astonishing when you consider the fact that this engine is co-developed by so many automotive giants and uses some of the tech from very high-end sports cars(IIRC the zig-zag coating on the piston-heads of this engine is the same one as found in the Nissan GTR). As I earlier mentioned too the 1.5K9K was a jewel of an engine and one of the strong points of the Kicks. Its really bad that they didn't launch the BS6 version of the same.

I got the answer I sought at the beginning: I didn’t need another TD. Alas, this one too was not for me.

So the search goes on and TBH I'm really liking the way its turning out to be since I'm getting almost a TD experience of so many cars right from the comfort of my home though I hope that you find your perfect match(by that I mean the car, obviously, don't think otherwise ]

The Diesel Compass actually felt good, and no comparison to the Kicks petrol. I would happily overlook the 10 year rule for this kind of a difference. If things are similar to how they are now, I plan to sell the diesel I get at around the 9th year to someone outside Delhi.

I would really suggest you to take a close, deep look at the diesel Compass once again, whether it be used or brand-new, I personally would suggest going for the latter, the base Sportz model with 2.0diesel+manual combo even if it means stretching your budget a bit(I know you are already on your stretched budget but the Compass is really a lucrative option, also its the sole American left in its segment, considering you drive an American OEMs' sedan only, sounds like the perfect upgrade). Some sort of compromise will always be there no matter which car you buy and you've to decide what negotiable and what ain't negotiable for you and then decide the same. Yeah the Jeep isa bit small and there might be a few ergonomic issues but apart from that its an extremely good SUV to buy, the engine, the handling, the ride, the build quality and even its killer looks the list goes on long. TBH the more I see the Jeep, the greater the respect it commands in my eyes. On a related note, if you are open to used, did by any chance you stumbled upon cars like Endeavour DuraTorq 3.2 or Chevrolet Trailblazer 2.8TCDi?, both of these SUVs had almost 200BHP of power and a massive earth-moving 500Nm of torque the only difference being the latter was only offered in India in 2WD version only but that wouldn't be a dealbreaker for you IMO since your usage doesn't include off-roading and mud-splurging. You already own a Chevrolet and the service people are quite acquiring with you and the Trailblazer actually shares a lot of components with the Isuzu D-Max V-Cross and it would be fairly reliable as well as most Chevrolet's are.

The XUV700 petrol has some serious figures, but the Kicks too sounded good on paper. Why not a XUV700 Diesel, mate? The engine was actually very good. From Mahindra, it also feels more reliable. Better FE and likely resale too, if for any reason you need to sell it.

The all-new XUV is a smashing product to say the least and Mahindra has really hit the ball out of park with this one. The engine, the specs, the tech and gizmos and especially its sheer VFM pricing makes it a de facto choice, also it looks terrific as well, The only drawback is the long waiting period (which Mahindra is trying hard to work upon) and the fact that there are some weird issues in the ICE which Mahindra is trying to resolve by pushing software upgrades. The diesel AWD especially would be my choice if I would be buying one, the petrol's 200odd BHPs sound very delicious but I wouldn't like breaking my bank every time after a spirited drive with it at the Fuel Station!, also the AWD would be providing better traction and torque spread in demanding situations.

Tucson, based on figures, not sure if the petrol would satisfy you considering the other cars on your list and your earlier posts. If you can stretch the budget a bit look at the Tucson diesel too. Ones who own is appreciate it a lot.
Had the Tucson been available with a manual transmission, and in my budget even if it didn't have any fancy features, I'd have given it a serious hard look and might well have ended with it (of course if it passed the TD test).

The Tucson in its pre-facelift version was available in MT avatar but Hyundai definitely wasn't in a mood to sell one else there was absolutely no reason why they gave it such a step-motherly treatment, it lacked so many features like Auto Climate Control, 2Airbags instead of 6, no projector lights(not even halogen ones!), so naturally it didn't get any response which is why they dropped the Mts altogether in 2020 facelift though I must say that the 8speed AT is beautifully paired with 2.0L CRDi and offers very fast and powerful performance and is easily at par with cars one-two segments above, also dynamically too its very nice, its a bit stiff-sprung but offers rock-solid stability at the expressways, the tyres too grip extremely well and the brakes, you just need to press it a bit firmly(like other Hyundais) but the braking ability by itself is very powerful indeed and it really drops the anchor when you want it to do so plus when you brake hard on even wet surfaces from high speed the SUV doesn't lose its composure or stability neither it veers off its line. So sad that it didn't receive that much success it deserved(much like the Honda Jazz).

All the very best for your onward car buying journey and I do love reading all of those, I might not comment on all of those but believe me I do read each and every word of each of your posts. Thank you, stay safe and happy motoring!

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Nissan Kicks – Turbo Petrol MT
(It was a pretty compromised TD; has some comparisons with the others tested till now - XUV700, Harrier, Hector, Compass)
------
Main II : The Drive – Suspension, Steering, Control, NVH
(As mentioned before, please bear in mind that the tyre-pressure was unknown, and my guess is that it was about 4-7 psi lower and will comment based on that, but I could easily be way off with that guess as it was my first time with this vehicle.)
------
Main III : The Engine and a bit more
(A chance that the TD vehicle was had issues, as the SA said that the service was overdue)
------
It was a big let-down, as I half expected,...

Since the post seems to be getting more readership now (going by increased "Thanks"), thought I should mention:

* Please bear in mind the parts of the TD quoted above.
* Low TP too makes a difference to how the engine is felt.
* My main disappointment was to do with it's power building up late. It really didn't seem like reaching it's peak torque of 254Nm at 1600 RPM. Though less likely with modern setups, it just might be due to a poorly maintained vehicle.
* Also please bear in mind that for a decade I've been used to about 320Nm from a 1.37 tonne car, and all the others I checked were 2 litre or more turbo diesel engines. So, it isn't really a fair comparison.

So what didn't work for me might work for others. I say this for all who might be reading this considering the Kicks as a potential purchase. Some aspects are brilliant, as I mentioned; perhaps less explicitly. It is very well priced too, considering it's 'car characteristics' (as opposed to 'features').

PS: Writing from the phone, so will reply properly later; especially to Tony's absolutely lovely from-the-heart post

[shinuak]

As a fellow Optra Magnum owner 6 years ago, I can understand the way in which you are drawing comparisons and conclusions. There is nothing that beats the raw torque, steering feel of the HPS and comfort in any of the cars in the market now, unless you are ready to pay a real premuim for some of the marquee brands. The octavia diesel was a worthy replacement until a couple of years back till diesels were sunset by VAG in India. I still miss the rocket of an engine and the take off effect that I used to enjoy in it. The rear seat which can beat any modern sofa, was the most comfortable place for my family members on long drives. Unless faced with bumper to bumper traffic where the heavy clutch played spoil sport and the occasional spare replacements which are costly, I realise there wasn't anything else to complain in that wonderful machine in which I have crunched many miles. My next move was the Rapid TDI which gave me similar experiences, except for the HPS and rear seat space, but its a pity that none of the VAG cars have their capable diesels anymore for Indian market.

[madhukar]

Originally Posted by Piyush Kanthak

I think you should go with XUV 700, but you will get delivery around 2023 which I feel is going to take down any niggles in the product, if you want fast delivery then start making friends with multiple Dealerships ��

If not then go for Compass, you will never regret it but you will only get the base model��
Will not recommend Hector because you love driving, Hector isn't great in driving Dynamics so it will always bring a question whether you bought a car or smartphone

My cousin wanted to replace his 6 years Honda City with a 5 seater SUV for around 20 lakhs and had shortlisted Harrier, XUV700 & Hector. I recommended the XUV700 even though the XUV700 has a busy rear design and not the best driving dynamics. The XUV700 is priced competitively with a 5 star safety rating and has more space, more features and power.
The Harrier has the best ride & handling among the 3 SUVs due to the Land-Rover-derived underpinnings, but the XUV700 is more modern and refined.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Poitive

As per ron178, a new round of crash test reports are round the corner and might include the Hector.

Just for anyone still curious about this, it turns out it's not true. There was a round of results but it did not include the Hector. I read too much into MG's Tweet about it in July. There might be more results in the later half of the year or early next year, but they will be under much tougher evaluation protocols and are likely to include at least some cars that have already been tested for frontal impact (to save costs). It is not clear if any C-segment cars will be included.

[heydj]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Tucson, based on figures, not sure if the petrol would satisfy you considering the other cars on your list and your earlier posts. If you can stretch the budget a bit look at the Tucson diesel too. Ones who own is appreciate it a lot. Tony2298 might be able to add here. 400Nm Torque, and Hyundai's service would be pluses. Lack of some features and modern interiors, which puts people off aren't your focus anyway. It has a mulitilink suspension; and I'm told an excellent AT and is pretty composed.

Had the Tucson been available with a manual transmission, and in my budget even if it didn't have any fancy features, I'd have given it a serious hard look and might well have ended with it (of course if it passed the TD test).

Thanks Buddy.

So this past weekend I did a TD of multiple vehicles along with Dad and arrived at following conclusion:
- XUV 700 is off the list as it has too much gadgetry and in test car half of it was not working. I like things to be basic and solid.
- Gurkha has everything we liked except it's manual and we have now decided to stick with AT. People give way to Gurkha, especially 2 wheelers. Also solid buttons and no electronic wizadry.
- Thar P AT is good but not sure if it's going to keep me happy for long time. Also in test car half the things were not working.
- Alcazar P AT - too many gadgets and busy interiors. We don't have brain power to deal with all this jazz. Drive was fine.
- Tucson P AT - good. Basic and solid just the way we like it to be. It is now no 1 on the list. I find interiors to be classic and good.
- Jeep Compass - sales experience with SA was so awful that this is off the list forever. Sales team did not come for TD and cancelled without any intimation. On enquiring started arguing and giving excuses. No Compass, period!

So No 1 on list is Tucson. Is it possible to remap and make engine fun to drive? Anyone?

Also Dad is like if your heart desires Fortuner then save up and wait for sometime to buy that only. As I have been lusting after Fortuner for years however it's forever been couple of lakhs out of reach. I don't know when that gap would get covered.

Or Buy Tucson. What does everyone think? He is against Thar because in test vehicle nothing was working and SA was like test car gets abused a lot to this Dad said thar is supposed to take abuse and be rugged. SA had nothing to say on this point.

Any suggestions?

Note: Gurkha sales team is amazing and goes above & beyond. It's like dealing with American Express customer care. Compared to them all other SAs are subpar.

[Poitive]

Folks, parts of this post might be somewhat OT.

Originally Posted by Tony2298

Warm greetings to you! I really do like reading your posts, it's full of detailed insights, attention to detail and I really feel like I or any other reader for that matter has been a part of the test during your test driving experience. The Nissan Kicks was definitely. a very good car but it lost its potential when Nissan group decided to kill of their fantastic 1.5K9K Diesel engine, yeah that engine did had lag below 1800rpm or so but the there was a strong tug when you crossed past the 200rpm mark or so, also unlike modern-day turbo petrols even if you drive it like a maniac it would always give you very good fuel efficiency at the end of the day. This is the reason why I still love diesels even in todays day and age and even after so many potential problems of BS6 diesels only because we can have our cake and eat it too, also diesels due to the virtue of their engineering have a L-O-N-G life span and if maintained well even modern day turbo-diesels can easily run lakhs of kilometres without any fuss. There are quite a number of examples in front of us isn't it?, the Innovas and Fortuners used in the commercial mode have 5-6 lakhs kilometres on their odo and still run like day 1, in our very own forum BHPian @jonesanto has his Elantra CRDi run for about 4lakhs and still its performing very well, even the notorious VAG diesel cars are very reliable in general as compared to their turbo-petrol counterparts. Sorry for going a bit off-topic but I would strongly suggest you to buy a good diesel car only as its probably the last time we could buy one before there is an onslaught of clean, silent Electric cars.

Thank you for your lovely post, Tony. Besides torquey diesels, we both have a penchant for long detailed posts. So true about the having one's cake and eating it too with turbo-diesels. Thank you for introducing me to @jonesanto's Elantra thread; have subscribed to it. Incidentally, the Elantra shares the engine with the Optra Magnum. While the A.S.S. mechanics told me that they had only seen one Optra come for an overhaul, that too was due to improper usage, and that it was normal for it to do 2lakhs without stress, jonesanto's car's case is amazing for a non-Toyota. I do agree with your point about them having a long life. Considering the environmental impact of manufacturing a new car, I wonder if the 10 year NGT rule is counterproductive..

What that made me realize was also that I am unlikely to enjoy anything other than a 2 litre or more diesel. The most I think I'll might try would be the 1.5 litre turbo petrol on the Kushaq/Tiagun, though I am not comfortable going with the VAG group after the numerous stories of trouble on the forum.

The more I read about Optra Magnum the more I realise how gem of a car was it. Yeah, the interiors might have been a bit boring but the engine, ride and handling and even the durability part was very good. Same case with the Cruze which we all know even today holds a special place in the hearts of diesel heads. Its so sad that GM and Ford, both American giants left the show without even trying once with their full heart and soul because if they did dare I say that they would have been right up there or even exceeded the Koreans in the pursuit of gaining market-share and was it all too difficult for them? I don't think so, they just needed a fresh approach, launch some products which suits an average Indian Joes' requirements perfectly and rationalise their service costs and improve their dealer network, considering that both are giants and have turnover reaching billions of dollars, I don't think so it would have posed a huge challenge but in return they would have been rewarded with a huge revenue considering we buy almost equal amount of cars as in developed countries like Germany for instance. A food for thought.

The Optra Magnum truly was (is) a magnificent car with a wonderful practical balance of fun and immense comfort. I'll write a post on it's merits on my ownership report one of these days.

I like to see car purchases in two phases: Initial Phase (say 6-12 months) and Long Term Phase. Many cars which excite us and are not practical enough are appreciated in the Initial Phase, and not enough in the latter; and one could just be left convincing one's self that it was a great decision to get the car. The Long Term Phase is at least as important, when we really live with the car and it needs to be practical. On those grounds, I think the Optra is a way better car than the Cruze. I don't think I could have had as satisfying an experience with the Cruze (more on this on the ownership thread).

Similarly, I feel that even if I was to put the other aspects of Jeep Compass aside, I think while it might make me really happy in the Initial Phase, it is unlikely to make me happy in the Long Term Phase. Pay as much and have a cabin which feels like a significant downgrade in terms of space and less comfort feels difficult to justify to myself, despite the much appreciated Test Drive. I had all but cut a cheque to finalize and pick up the vehicle in 2-3 days and postponed one day, and a phone-call with a friend who got me out of my boyish excitement changed much. Besides the above, there also are questions in my mind about Jeep's future in India, questionable service (limited dealers), and even quality despite all the praise about it being well built. Just check the Compass thread and imagine the sentiment had it been a Tata car - I expect many harsh remarks might have been made about the quality. While I totally loved the drive experience and it still has a soft spot for me, my head screams a big no to the Compass. I guess you did the right thing with a Tucson, which gives you the right things (good car characteristics and that 400Nm) and is from a more stable-in-India company with an excellent service network.

About GM and Ford: haven't studied enough and could be wrong, but my rough impression is as follows:
* They had higher cost operations due to their global standards (read so about Ford, especially) which drove up costs and thinned margins.
* Importantly, their investments seem to be in products which are more mature and not enough aligned with what the Indian markets is willing to pay for. The big chunk in India seems to value either extreme VFM or blingy features which can be compared on a catalogue in a competent price. Koreans and Chinese in the guise of Brits offer that better.
* What they typically sell here are their lower end products on the global arena, and are cater to a much higher segment of customer in the Indian context, and it has been so since the Opel Astra+Ford Escort days, which were like student cars in the US, but premium chauffeur driven ones here. Not sure how many made-for-India cars like the Ikon are viable. Earlier there was little competition besides Maruti and Honda. Now the Korean's products align much better with the mass market for what GM+Ford would go for. (Maruti+ segment).

* Large capital investments in the current scenario become questionable, as the EV era is close enough to not recover those large capital investments (concerns which ancillary units too would have). I suppose the EV change is not a minor factor, and I hardly see anyone talking about it.
* The forecast in the current scenario could well have made it seem best to cut the losses and leave for now. I would not be surprised if they were back in the scene after 10-15 years after the EV infra has been built, and they are more confident of cracking which would likely be a more mature market better aligned to their products than now. I would be happy to see Mitsubishi to make a proper run in India.
* One might argue that the VAG still is in the market with mature and less blingy products, but check the cost cutting and complaints around it. They may just be losing the goodwill they have built here, and if they don't do big enough numbers, we just might seen another exit in the next 5-7 years. One trick they probably missed was to take this opportunity to majorly place one brand above the other - Skoda for the cheaper line with average finish etc, and VW with top end ad a premium.

Also, for a company, it isn't about if they can make a market work, but whether it is worth it. The same effort and focus in other markets would probably be expected to yield better results. Opportunity cost of resources and focus, really.

The day when it finally happens and when I load up the Team-BHP page and I find the post titled Poitive's New Car would definitely be one of the happiest days of my life and believe me man, even though we haven't ever met each other during our life(or maybe had met but didn't recognise each other then, who knows?!) I have realised that we indeed share a lot in common and especially when talking about cars we are extremely like-minded given the fact that we both love diesels, are a bit of connoisseur and pay a lot of attention to even the smallest(but very significant) things which even the showroom people themselves don't know! I really wish all the best for your new car journey and hope that the car you buy meets most of your requirements, at least I did find mine.

This was incredible to read, Tony. I had a wide grin and got a bit nostalgic about the camaraderie one felt from the Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan thread days. I so agree, that even though we have never knowingly met, one related to the other like one has known the other for long - especially in terms of going on about cars with emotions! Cars and emotions go hand in hand for some. Incidentally, probably only as sales talk, have recently been told by an SA that he learns more from me than his training at the company; and it surely wasn't the first time - so I do relate to what you say. Also, I hope that post you mentioned comes soon! This has become rather long drawn, with mixed emotions. Impatient to get on with things and get the car, however this thread has helped me keep balance. Has become a diary of car-purchase thoughts of sorts.

A bit off-topic but your long posts about checking out cars, taking note of each and every thing almost reminds me of one of my friend who was searching for his perfect girlfriend all of his college life but at last couldn't find any and had to take the route of arranged marriage.

I've quite strictly kept personal stuff off the forum, but your hilarious anecdote makes me slip this one time: During my formal study days, friends used to call my mobike my girlfriend and more (unmentionable on a family forum) and had all kinds of polite and unmentionable names for it, due to my passion for it; partly as I was often seen tampering with it. Amongst that lot of friends, I was the butt of jokes about my mobike; with others into professional motoring, it was a totally different story though.

Its absolutely astonishing when you consider the fact that this engine is co-developed by so many automotive giants and uses some of the tech from very high-end sports cars(IIRC the zig-zag coating on the piston-heads of this engine is the same one as found in the Nissan GTR). As I earlier mentioned too the 1.5K9K was a jewel of an engine and one of the strong points of the Kicks. Its really bad that they didn't launch the BS6 version of the same.

It actually wasn't as bad as I probably made it seem. Just not comparable to the large diesels I was unfairly pitting it against. The main issue being the delay in power. I seriously doubt the 254Nm at 1600RPM for the TD vehicle I drove. For someone coming from a smaller engine, and from a hatch, this could be a very good upgrade.

So the search goes on and TBH I'm really liking the way its turning out to be since I'm getting almost a TD experience of so many cars right from the comfort of my home though I hope that you find your perfect match(by that I mean the car, obviously, don't think otherwise ]

Sharing and talking about automobiles with ones who enjoy is a pleasure for me too, right from my teeny days. It is just good to know that others too read and appreciate the effort as you just did. There were moments when I felt like writing the very least needed and would like to add here that posts by @shancz tilted the balance towards keeping on writing (consistent conversation with him on the thread), else it almost felt silly to write in phases. Now I realize that the match making is being enjoyed.

I would really suggest you to take a close, deep look at the diesel Compass once again, whether it be used or brand-new, I personally would suggest going for the latter, the base Sportz model with 2.0diesel+manual combo even if it means stretching your budget a bit(I know you are already on your stretched budget but the Compass is really a lucrative option, also its the sole American left in its segment, considering you drive an American OEMs' sedan only, sounds like the perfect upgrade). Some sort of compromise will always be there no matter which car you buy and you've to decide what negotiable and what ain't negotiable for you and then decide the same. Yeah the Jeep isa bit small and there might be a few ergonomic issues but apart from that its an extremely good SUV to buy, the engine, the handling, the ride, the build quality and even its killer looks the list goes on long. TBH the more I see the Jeep, the greater the respect it commands in my eyes.

I shared much of my thoughts about the Jeep Compass earlier in this post. Further, though it appeals to my emotions, I actually am losing respect for it as I read the Compass thread. As many years in India, and a vehicle at a typical price of 25-30L has complaints about the AC not working well enough, which is usually taken for granted even in cars 1/4th it's price is strange to say the least. Despite the immense enjoyment, for my use case and preferences, this one is increasingly becoming hard to keep on the list.

Interestingly, the Optra is really of Korean lineage. It is a Daewoo Lacetti which was further upgraded after GM took over Daweoo. More on it's history on the ownership review (link here)

On a related note, if you are open to used, did by any chance you stumbled upon cars like Endeavour DuraTorq 3.2 or Chevrolet Trailblazer 2.8TCDi?, both of these SUVs had almost 200BHP of power and a massive earth-moving 500Nm of torque the only difference being the latter was only offered in India in 2WD version only but that wouldn't be a dealbreaker for you IMO since your usage doesn't include off-roading and mud-splurging. You already own a Chevrolet and the service people are quite acquiring with you and the Trailblazer actually shares a lot of components with the Isuzu D-Max V-Cross and it would be fairly reliable as well as most Chevrolet's are.

Even though I am not really inclined to used vehicles (except that I checked the Compass pre-facelift due to it being said to not have the knee-console issue), I did make a quick check on both those. They are still rather expensive, with useful years of the 10 years allowed in Delhi getting knocked off. Also too large for practical use as an everyday city vehicle. Low FE higher maintenance too. I actually don't want too large a vehicle, as it is a pain in the city - parking, traffic etc. Kicks or a tiny bit bigger would be ideal. Harrier and Hector seem like the upper range of comfort. XUV700 being larger is a small minus in my book. Width, especially matters more.

On the Chevy service, I was lucky. The whole decade the car was not only looked after by the same A.S.S. but also the same person in the workshop who treated it quite like his own car, due to the rapport we built. No wonder despite it's felt more refined than all the new ones I test drove. I actually didn't have the heart to sell it, and it has sort off been gifted to family outside Delhi/NCR.

The all-new XUV is a smashing product to say the least and Mahindra has really hit the ball out of park with this one. The engine, the specs, the tech and gizmos and especially its sheer VFM pricing makes it a de facto choice, also it looks terrific as well, The only drawback is the long waiting period (which Mahindra is trying hard to work upon) and the fact that there are some weird issues in the ICE which Mahindra is trying to resolve by pushing software upgrades. The diesel AWD especially would be my choice if I would be buying one, the petrol's 200odd BHPs sound very delicious but I wouldn't like breaking my bank every time after a spirited drive with it at the Fuel Station!, also the AWD would be providing better traction and torque spread in demanding situations.

There is much to like in the XUV700 - that juicy 2200cc free revving diesel, especially. However, it came across as a product released in a hurry. To me, it seems a bit like a product which was close to finishing stages and then made to hurry to meet a deadline. I expect it to be a very good buy in about 2-3 years or so, with software issues taken care of and especially and hopefully the suspension fine-tuned. One can also hope that the lightness of the steering would be made better, at least as a selectable option, as it anyway has all kinds of electronics, so all it might need may be another map for the EPS to behave differently. It might never be an HPS, but could be a good or at least an acceptable EPS. The steering, especially in the overall context of the way the vehicle is, is a huge gripe I have the this car, only further enhanced after the Kicks TD. All said, I must add that it does provide a lot of car for the money even in the current state, and it's booking numbers are proof that they resonate with buyers at large.

The Tucson in its pre-facelift version was available in MT avatar but Hyundai definitely wasn't in a mood to sell one else there was absolutely no reason why they gave it such a step-motherly treatment, it lacked so many features like Auto Climate Control, 2Airbags instead of 6, no projector lights(not even halogen ones!), so naturally it didn't get any response which is why they dropped the Mts altogether in 2020 facelift though I must say that the 8speed AT is beautifully paired with 2.0L CRDi and offers very fast and powerful performance and is easily at par with cars one-two segments above, also dynamically too its very nice, its a bit stiff-sprung but offers rock-solid stability at the expressways, the tyres too grip extremely well and the brakes, you just need to press it a bit firmly(like other Hyundais) but the braking ability by itself is very powerful indeed and it really drops the anchor when you want it to do so plus when you brake hard on even wet surfaces from high speed the SUV doesn't lose its composure or stability neither it veers off its line. So sad that it didn't receive that much success it deserved(much like the Honda Jazz).

I could happily live with a car which is sound on the 'car' part and devoid of most of the fancy features. A screen for maps is handy. Most of the rest I could live without. The old Tucson MT sounds quite like my sort of a car, though might have missed the HPS.

All the very best for your onward car buying journey and I do love reading all of those, I might not comment on all of those but believe me I do read each and every word of each of your posts. Thank you, stay safe and happy motoring!

Thanks again, especially for explicitly stating that you do read, and of course the wishes. My best wishes for you to have wonderful journeys on your much loved Tucson, mate.

PS: "Reading" reminds me, I recently noticed (on the 20th Feb) that the thread has had over 1 lakh views! A week over 2 months for a What-Car thread!! Sudden activity and "Thanks" made me realize that it is also much linked to it being in the Hot Threads in the past, and the Nissan Review was in the News section, which clearly give it much more readership.

[DriveHome]

In my opinion a tall or large person has very limited choice in the market. Many of the options listed in the thread are good for people up to 6ft. But in the 15-20l budget if you have to haul around 5 large people in an SUV your choices are limited to -
1) Tata Harrier / Safari
2) MG Hector

I find the car bench of the Jeep Compass to be too cramped when seated behind another tall person. And the only reason to go for XUV 700 is the gizmos which I too am not to keen on.

Between the MG and Tata's the choice is simply between if you prefer a sedate drive or a more engaging drive.

For me its either of the Tata Harrier or Tata Safari hands down. But there are many who would appreciate the MG Hector too.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by heydj

Thanks Buddy.

So this past weekend I did a TD of multiple vehicles along with Dad and arrived at following conclusion:
...
So No 1 on list is Tuscon. Is it possible to remap and make engine fun to drive? Anyone?

Also Dad is like if your heart desires Fortuner then save up and wait for sometime to buy that only. As I have been lusting after Tfort for years however it's forever been couple of lakhs out of reach. I don't know when that gap would get covered.

Or Buy Tuscon. What does everyone think? He is against Thar because in test vehicle nothing was working and SA was like test car gets abused a lot to this Dad said thar is supposed to take abuse and be rugged. SA had nothing to say on this point.

Any suggestions?

Note: Gurkha sales team is amazing and goes above & beyond. It's like dealing with American Express customer care. Compared to them all other SA are subpar.

Most welcome, mate.

Considering you being 6'3", Compass might have been an inappropriate choice anyway, with it lacking in cabin space and you are buying for the long haul, so the back seat might not be one which can be ignored completely. Similar thoughts about the Thar too. Both you have already ruled out.

Despite what I said about the XUV700 in my previous post, considering that it would be a while to get one's hands on one, one can take a calculated risk of niggles being sorted by then (the suspension, I really doubt though, but one never knows). There have been indications about them being sorted out in the next few months, including on this thread. Check JKBKS's post here. If you are okay with the steering, other factors in favour would be: the assurance that Mahindra will be around for the long haul, relatively easy to repair even in remote areas, spares availability due to the volumes it is expected to do, excellent engine, fairly good suspension, space and so on. Not sure if one should rule out this in a hurry. It has VFM MX models which rely relatively less on electronics (possibly as the one to get till you get your Fortuner?)

Though you have ruled out the Gurkha for the lack of AT, sharing my thoughts in case you reconsider it in future: I would consider it inappropriate for your purchase, as you have not been able to use your VAG car owing to lack of confidence about it giving trouble on the highway. Till Force Motors has an adequate network or Toyota like reliability (which it apparently doesn't with oil leaks being reported a few weeks into ownership and other issues), it might not be a prudent choice as a primarily vehicle for highway runs, unless one goes to terrain which uses the special qualities of this desirable vehicle. Would be pointless to change from VAG yet lack comfort and confidence for highway runs.

Further, it being a purpose-built vehicle to handle rough terrain and have a high GC, it has a very high height:width ratio, and a lowish powered engine, which makes it less suitable for highway runs than others. One might not feel confident taking this easily and regularly on the speeds expressways today allow. It would be a wonderful choice though, for someone as an additional vehicle if it tugs one's heart, or if one uses it's special abilities.

Tucson remap: Regarding the remap, there is a thread for this very purpose and might give you more meaningful replies. One has to consider how it might affect warranty though.I am actually surprised that you are okay with the petrol Tucson.

Toyota Fortuner: Within the limitations of the suggestions one can make towards another for such things, I'd say if you think you'll end up with it in a couple of years, wait. If not, enjoy this last phase of ICE engines and not waste much time. As it is said, life is too short to live with a car you don't enjoy

A middle ground between Tucson Petrol and Fortuner might be what was suggested before: the Tucson Diesel. In case you haven't, do TD it. It might be a great choice for you, if you are willing to sell it in about 9 years to someone outside Delhi. Optimizing this might cost you the enjoyment of a good car in the interim years. If you go for a Fortuner Petrol, you would anyway suffer poor FE and likely poor resale (?) as compared to the Diesel one. If that is diesel, you anyway need to sell before 10 years.

Originally Posted by madhukar

My cousin wanted to replace his 6 years Honda City with a 5 seater SUV for around 20 lakhs and had shortlisted Harrier, XUV700 & Hector. I recommended the XUV700 even though the XUV700 has a busy rear design and not the best driving dynamics. The XUV700 is priced competitively with a 5 star safety rating and has more space, more features and power.
The Harrier has the best ride & handling among the 3 SUVs due to the Land-Rover-derived underpinnings, but the XUV700 is more modern and refined.

To me, at mid and highish speeds, the XUV also felt very competent in it's handling/control; also more nimble, with a much better engine, better brakes. In terms of driving the XUV, my issue was with the totally disconnected feel of the steering. Not sure if I can say the handling/dynamics of the Harrier were superior to the XUV700. They were different, and in totality very comparable.

Originally Posted by shinuak

As a fellow Optra Magnum owner 6 years ago, I can understand the way in which you are drawing comparisons and conclusions. There is nothing that beats the raw torque, steering feel of the HPS and comfort in any of the cars in the market now, unless you are ready to pay a real premuim for some of the marquee brands. The octavia diesel was a worthy replacement until a couple of years back till diesels were sunset by VAG in India. I still miss the rocket of an engine and the take off effect that I used to enjoy in it. The rear seat which can beat any modern sofa, was the most comfortable place for my family members on long drives. Unless faced with bumper to bumper traffic where the heavy clutch played spoil sport and the occasional spare replacements which are costly, I realise there wasn't anything else to complain in that wonderful machine in which I have crunched many miles. My next move was the Rapid TDI which gave me similar experiences, except for the HPS and rear seat space, but its a pity that none of the VAG cars have their capable diesels anymore for Indian market.

Always good to hear from a fellow Optra Magnum owner, shinuak. Rarely come across one who owned the Magnum and didn't love it. Though many might find it odd to read, I found the ride in the Optra better than the previous gen Octavia (IIRC only one version of that Octavia had the multi-link and my experience was with the torsion bar version), and my impression was that though the Optra Magnum lacked all the features and plushness of interiors, on the pure car front, while being different it was at least as competent as the Octavia; and IMO was a better 'car' package. Would not elaborate here further due to the OT nature and shall post on the ownership thread later sometime and post a link on this thread.

I am actually surprised that you found the Rapid similar (though my impression of the Rapid is based on the Vento).

Originally Posted by ron178

Just for anyone still curious about this, it turns out it's not true. There was a round of results but it did not include the Hector. I read too much into MG's Tweet about it in July. There might be more results in the later half of the year or early next year, but they will be under much tougher evaluation protocols and are likely to include at least some cars that have already been tested for frontal impact (to save costs). It is not clear if any C-segment cars will be included.

Thank you for the update ron178. Your sense of responsibility to remember to update a thread you were mentioned on a while back is really praiseworthy, as is your in-depth knowledge of the crash rating protocols. Have really appreciated the knowledge and measured and accurate expression of it you have brought to the forum as seen on various threads. Thank you for that.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by DriveHome

...if you have to haul around 5 large people in an SUV your choices are limited to -
1) Tata Harrier / Safari
2) MG Hector
----
Between the MG and Tata's the choice is simply between if you prefer a sedate drive or a more engaging drive.

Welcome to the forum and thread, @DriveHome.
In my case, it will typically be 1-3 people in the car. Almost never a full 5 tall ones.

Had the Knee-Console issue (as mentioned in the Test Drives on page 1) not been there in the Harrier/Safari, and if it had better NVH, the choice might have been much simpler. Going by the seat of the pants feel the tuning of the Fiat's MJD 2.0 felt better in the Hector than the Harrier (both have the same tyre size too, unlike the XUV700 which felt more eager despite it's bigger tyres). The Hector feels like a significant compromise in terms of driving, yet has many other qualities, such as the ride quality especially at city-speeds.

[morphique]

Since my primary choices have a waiting period, I keep checking for alternatives that might be available sooner. Checked out Kicks CVT yesterday. Some impressions from the test drive:

Dealership experience: There is only one dealer in Pune. Never got a call from the dealer on placing an online inquiry on Nissan website. Visited on a Sunday - The showroom looked pretty small. They refused to give a test drive citing almost closing time for the day and no availability of test drive vehicle. They promised a home test drive the next day (Monday) though, but no call received on Monday. Finally, they called on Tuesday. I had asked for test drive of Magnite CVT as well as Kicks CVT - they could only arrange Kicks CVT, and promised Magnite CVT later (which I refused after they told me it had a waiting period of 3 months).

Engine / Transmission: The test drive vehicle had 8k on the odo. Found that the CVT has lag / takes time (slow) to respond, whether it is city or highway (overtaking needs to be planned). No Sports mode / paddle shifters either. Overall, nothing impressive.

Build: I somehow had high hopes, but was not quite impressed at least with the bonnet and hatch weight. The doors are ok, probably because they are bigger compared to other cars. Outside noise is well-contained though, due to insulations under the hood as well as at the back, and full doors.

Ride quality: Nothing to add other than what has been mentioned several times on various threads - this is one saving grace for Kicks. You can go over undulations and potholes at fairly good speeds without getting affected much.

Other observations:
- All-black interiors did not look bad (no premium feel though)
- Seats were too firm (almost uncomfortable)
- Steering was quite heavy at low speeds (they said it is EPS)
- Cramped footwell and no dead pedal
- Audio controls are behind the steering
- No storage space between front seats
- No storage below armrest (fixed)

Price: ~17L on-road Pune (including extended warranty, and post 1L discount)

Availability: Not readily available. Made to order!

[heydj]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Most welcome, mate.

Toyota Fortuner: Within the limitations of the suggestions one can make towards another for such things, I'd say if you think you'll end up with it in a couple of years, wait. If not, enjoy this last phase of ICE engines and not waste much time. As it is said, life is too short to live with a car you don't enjoy

A middle ground between Tucson Petrol and Fortuner might be what was suggested before: the Tucson Diesel. In case you haven't, do TD it. It might be a great choice for you, if you are willing to sell it in about 9 years to someone outside Delhi. Optimizing this might cost you the enjoyment of a good car in the interim years. If you go for a Fortuner Petrol, you would anyway suffer poor FE and likely poor resale (?) as compared to the Diesel one. If that is diesel, you anyway need to sell before 10 years.


To me, at mid and highish speeds, the XUV also felt very competent in it's handling/control; also more nimble, with a much better engine, better brakes. In terms of driving the XUV, my issue was with the totally disconnected feel of the steering. Not sure if I can say the handling/dynamics of the Harrier were superior to the XUV700. They were different, and in totality very comparable.

When I started looking for new ride I thought it was pretty sorted - get Thar and that's about it. Was willing to ignore all shortcomings etc. However with time as research expanded and got some free time from daily grind got around to testing more vehicles and now its as confusing as a Rubik's cube to figure out what to get. Now question has become of life itself and why settle for anything less

In past few weekends did a TD of multiple vehicles and of some again & again in various conditions.

XUV 700 P AT - superb acceleration & light tap on accelerator saw car jumping through red lights.

XUV 700 D AT - in zip & zap mode its pretty ok to drive however truly shines in zoom mode. However still not as fun to drive as Petrol.

XUV 700 - Steering:
-On open road with less traffic felt it could have been little on heavier side & give more feel. For car this big felt very light & like a toy.
-In heavily congested roads or narrow lanes within society this light steering is a boon as multiple twists & turns to get out was very easy & not taxing at all.

My advice would be to do TD on various routes and not just point the car to nearest open road. Its a given any modern car with turbo would feel great on open road however how it responds in very very dirty traffic is what needs to be observed.

Jeep Compass D MT - fun to drive with superb acceleration. However clutch is too hard & taxing on knees. In comparison clutch of Gurkha is light and easy to use.
Jeep Compass D AT - sluggish in pickup and accelerator feels heavy. However past 40 it keeps accelerating like crazy. Also does not have sports mode so only option is AT in MT mode. Maybe its tuned like this to aid in off-roading.

Jeep Compass D - steering I found bit to heavy for my liking but since AT only comes in 4*4 mode I am assuming its heavy to aid in off-roading.

Tucson D AT 4WD - superb to drive with lighting fast acceleration. However drive was so smooth that it was bit boring at times. This is a gem of a engine with great AT. However not sure between JC & Tucson which is better in rough terrain considering both have 4*4?

Hyundai Alcazar P AT - ok to drive and practical SUV but nothing too great. Just about average.

Fortuner P AT - in eco mode sluggish to drive and best to drive in sports mode. Good acceleration.

I am now confused between few things:
- Tucson D AT or Compass D AT? which is better in 4*4 and better overall SUV?
- Both of above are 32L OTR Delhi. So to spend 32L on these or XUV 700 AWD at 27L OTR? XUV has long waiting but that aside out of these 3 which is best for all terrain driving.
- Is it better to spend 32L on above or at 38L get Fortuner P AT? Considering 38L usage over 15 years vs 32L usage over 10 years?
- Or chuck everything get Thar P AT or D AT at 18L and if family expands then get XL6 etc in future.
- As its evident from my queries my budget unfortunately has become elastic from 18l to 38L. My comfortable range is around 28L range. Is it realistic to spend 38L - I keep thing about what GTO said buy something you really like and keep for long. So does that justify going from 28L to 38L?

Lot of questions & dilemmas. Could do with some mind clearing.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by heydj

- Tucson D AT or JC D AT? which is better in 4*4 and better overall SUV?

The easy way to settle this confusion is to have someone else drive you around while you sit in the back seat for sometime. Do think of the asking price while you are sitting there. Tucson is due for a refresh though, stay away.

As for 4x4 capabilities, crossovers are made for the road, can handle some slippery surface on occasion.

[heydj]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

The easy way to settle this confusion is to have someone else drive you around while you sit in the back seat for sometime. Do think of the asking price while you are sitting there. Tucson is due for a refresh though, stay away.

As for 4x4 capabilities, crossovers are made for the road, can handle some slippery surface on occasion.

Good points.

Sitting in back seat JC is not as good as Tucson. But then again Fortuner is also not that great in back seats along with Thar.

Crossover agreed may not be best but I think JC would be better than Tucson? I am no hard core off-roader instead need something to handle Spiti type roads to the best of their abilities considering driver (me) is not that experienced.