[Artyom]

Hello Folks,

So we are in the process of selling our beloved Honda City 2009 iVTEC which served us well all these 13 years. With the 15-year rule insight, we thought its best to sell it rather than getting peanuts later on.

So below are my requirements/considerations and as expected I look upon experts to help me make an informed decision.

1.He is used to an iVTEC engine so expectations would be reasonable to high especially in terms of refinement.
2.He is a sedate driver in general and hardly likes to rev the engine. Even if he does it's by mistake.
3.The drive mostly would be in the city and occasional highway trips. Overall the running would be less so PETROL only.
4.This time I want to invest in a vehicle that is safe and sturdy so that I have peace of mind whenever they are on the highway or in the city
5.The only complaint he had with the city was the low GC and the regular "Thuds" which the underbody took every now and then.
6.My logic says that a NA engine should be the best replacement but then even if we get a Turbo Charged engine that has proven reliability we are open.
7.During the discussion he only has 2 priorities (Higher GC and It should look good and different)Now I understand that looks are subjective but then that's what he wants. "Hatke hone chahiye" I am sure many would be able to relate to what I am trying to convey.
8. The budget has been finalized to 14 OTR(Punjab). We will try to get a the variant that has a decent/necessary set of features which in my opinion will be anything extra than our existing Honda City which was a base model when bought and only a Stereo system and Autocops was installed as an additional accessory.
9. They are yet to take the TD for S cross today but call it being proactive or concerned I am trying to get help to make an informed decision for them. The TD will for sure help them gauge is the ingress and egress is comfortable at all at this age. (Both are in their 65s)

Research/Analysis/Banging my head into a Wall Done so far

1.With the requirements so vague I tried and still trying to narrow down to a few vehicles with the reasons below:-

1. SCross (NA Engine and Maruti reliability and Decent safety rating)
2. Creta (NA engine and owning one myself 19 model instills confidence) BUT having 2 Cretas in the family is a weird feeling I guess
3. Seltos (NA engine and a different vehicle)
4. Sonet with the 1.2 Litre engine


Vehicles rejected so far by him:-
1.Brezza
2. Honda City Current gen(Although with a heavy heart)
3.Venue

TWIST ! TWIST ! More Confusion for me

1.I mistakenly showed him Kushaq on Youtube. He is mesmerized.
2.He also liked Nexon
3.He is selecting the models purely based upon looks which is a priority for him and what I Observed is whatever models he is liking are Turbo petrols.
4. I would personally like him to buy a hatchback which is easy to ply within the city but then I also understand that buying a car is a dream and irrespective of age you can't snatch it from anyone.It will be cheating and hell I don't want that to happen to me even when I grow old.

Challenge is both of them are Turbo Petrols and I am not sure of few things:-

1.Should we even consider them considering the person driving is used to the NA engine and its response plus.
2.Although age is a number is it safe for him to drive a Turbo one considering unlearning and learning is a tricky situation.
3 Have any of the members faced a similar dilemma where they have shifted from NA to Turbo and the transition is not that of a big deal
4.In case we decide to go for a Turbo Petrol in Manual which is the safest bet in terms of reliability and Maintenance (1.0 TSI or the One in Nexon or the Hyundai ones)
5.Since we keep vehicles long 10+ years are the Turbos of today's generation built to last that long.

It may occur to you that the way I have jotted down my thoughts are a little disorganized or vague but then I am trying to pen what's going on currently and would appreciate the forum's understanding and help. I have consulted Anurag bhai already and he has shared his views and I thank him for that. But I would also like to take more inputs before we make the call.

Additionally, if you feel anything is missed or is worth considering please share and that will overall help me in deciding.

[AYP]

Go with the mid variant Kushaq or the Taigun.

They will both stand out(hatke) among a breeze of other cars.

As far as NA vs Turbo is concerned, technically speaking, since an NA engine is simpler, it is going to be more reliable if we talk about it general terms. However, practically speaking, a well engineered turbo engine will last for a long time. And not to forget, the excellent mid range that they offer compared to a NA engine.

So ultimately, it is upto you to decide if the technicality of an NA engine being more reliable than a turbo engine is worth neglecting all the turbo equipped cars.

In my opinion, you should go for a car which appeals to you as an overall package than specifically looking at turbo vs NA.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Artyom

1.With the requirements so vague I tried and still trying to narrow down to a few vehicles with the reasons below:-

1. SCross (NA Engine and Maruti reliability and Decent safety rating)
2. Creta (NA engine and owning one myself 19 model instills confidence) BUT having 2 Cretas in the family is a weird feeling I guess
3. Seltos (NA engine and a different vehicle)
4. Sonet with the 1.2 Litre engine

S-Cross is definitely the safest in terms of structural ability to handle impact as well as dynamic ability to avoid said hypothetical crash when compared to all the Hyundais mentioned. Also NA petrol Hyundais have always felt less refined, more strained and overall a little lacking compared to their Japanese counterparts.

Originally Posted by Artyom

4. I would personally like him to buy a hatchback which is easy to ply within the city but then I also understand that buying a car is a dream and irrespective of age you can't snatch it from anyone.It will be cheating and hell I don't want that to happen to me even when I grow old.

If a hatchback is what you desire then an Ignis or Figo would be your best bet

I would say that the VAG offerings that meet your criteria will not be able to give you the same ownership experience that you are used to with the City. That said, if you still see any merits in going for a Skoda/VW, I would strongly urge you to check out a used Mercedes B-Class instead.

[Artyom]

Originally Posted by AYP

Go with the mid variant Kushaq or the Taigun.

They will both stand out(hatke) among a breeze of other cars.

As far as NA vs Turbo is concerned, technically speaking, since an NA engine is simpler, it is going to be more reliable if we talk about it general terms. However, practically speaking, a well engineered turbo engine will last for a long time. And not to forget, the excellent mid range that they offer compared to a NA engine.
.

Appreciate your response brother. Kushaq is certainly on the list especially after dad likes the looks (Ambient Variant is what we will go If ) The 1 Litre TSI is a reliable unit? (Pardon my ignorance as I have never driven it and so never felt the urge to read about it. Bad Petrolhead I am ) The same unit is being used in Kushaq I guess. Any views would be appreciated.
Any other Turbo Unit you would recommend based upon the requirement?

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

S-Cross is definitely the safest in terms of structural ability to handle impact as well as dynamic ability to avoid said hypothetical crash when compared to all the Hyundais mentioned. Also NA petrol Hyundais have always felt less refined, more strained and overall a little lacking compared to their Japanese counterparts.

If a hatchback is what you desire then an Ignis or Figo would be your best bet

I would say that the VAG offerings that meet your criteria will not be able to give you the same ownership experience that you are used to with the City. That said, if you still see any merits in going for a Skoda/VW, I would strongly urge you to check out a used Mercedes B-Class instead.

Thanks for the suggestions brother.

Scross to me seems to be the safest option without any compromises. It's like the 2nd best NA engine I can get today with all the other bells and whistles.
Hatchback requires some convincing which is not easy especially when coming from a Sedan + iVTEC.
2nd hand vehicles are not even considered, unfortunately.
If Ford would not have screwed up I would have bought Ecosport without even giving a 2nd thought . But with the current situation which FORD is in its a gamble.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Artyom

Challenge is both of them are Turbo Petrols and I am not sure of few things:-

My dad just shifted from Santro to Venue 1.0 turbo DCT, and the learning curve seems to be steep for him. He finds the Venue "underpowered" because of turbo lag. He mostly drives 2 to 4 km radius from home - so his speeds do not cross 40 kmph usually. He finds start-go, driving over large humps and steep incline kind of situations extremely irritating.

If you decide to go ahead with turbo petrol, make sure you buy an automatic. Manual is likely to be hellish for an aged person moving from NA engine.

[Artyom]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

He finds start-go, driving over large humps and steep incline kind of situations extremely irritating.
.

You have captured my thought and fear in the least amount of words. But I am glad that at least my fear is genuine and so yes either ill have to ask my dad to take enough test drives to ensure he gets the hang of it or understands the logic behind it and then operate the vehicle or better go for a NA engine. I am a little hesitant about the Auto transmission as I fear it will be even more complex to get used to it for him.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Artyom

I am a little hesitant about the Auto transmission as I fear it will be even more complex to get used to it for him.

If you pick the right auto transmission, you would have a hard time convincing him to switch back to manual.
It takes 2-3 trips to adjust but once done there is no going back as far as convenience is concerned.

Look for traditional torque converters or CVT gearboxes. AMTs can be jerky and many DSGs have gearbox heating up.

I would avoid the creta and seltos since safety isn't great though the creta scores well on other points. The Sonet isn't tested so I don't expect it to be vastly different.
The Nexon has an AMT so would avoid it as well.

The Kushaq is a nice option with the torque converter masking the turbo lag, providing a newer and more mature package than the S Cross though you would loose out on features : higher end S Cross vs Base Kushaq.
Safety hasn't been tested but so far Skodas/VW on average seem to have scored better than the average Hyundai.

The S Cross is a good all-rounder as well : its not thrilling to drive, or as modern as the Kushaq. But it makes up with peace of mind and reliability.

I wouldn't rule out sedans and would look at reliable, safe options such as the Yaris CVT too. Ground clearance should be better than the city, ride and handling is sorted, reliability and build will be Toyota good, etc. Only downside is that the model may soon be discontinued but being a Toyota it wouldn't require much maintenance and is abuse friendly.

[Artyom]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Look for traditional torque converters or CVT gearboxes. AMTs can be jerky and many DSGs have gearbox heating up.

Appreciate your suggestion.Our budget is strictly 14 so can you suggest anything within that range with a reliable Auto transmission.Sedans Excluded .Kushaq is going above the budget sadly.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Artyom

Appreciate your suggestion.Our budget is strictly 14 so can you suggest anything within that range with a reliable Auto transmission.Sedans Excluded .Kushaq is going above the budget sadly.

The S Cross would be a top choice then.
Other options are ecosport but it has a stiff ride, duster/kicks with the CVT.

[Artyom]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

The S Cross would be a top choice then.
Other options are ecosport but it has a stiff ride, duster/kicks with the CVT.

Scross is a 4 speed AT and i heard it gets loud around 80 or 90.Is that true?
Ecosport is the default choice but afraid due to Fords future plans.
Another query is for Duster .Is that still a good buy in Auto transmission.I heard rumours that Duster will be discontinued.
Appreciate your response and help.

[IamNikhil]

Especially since looks are priority, you could go for the Kushaq mid-variant. Sleek and sophisticated with just the right amount of features for your Dad; nothing too jazzy or glam.

Alternatively, you can look at the Creta, though you can only opt for the MT in the budget you mentioned.

Since the use would primarily be for city drives, the Turbo would prove to be a stretch. A normal NA should suffice: hassle-free and easy to own.

[denny_ace]

Considering your requirements, the S Cross is your best bet IMHO. The 1.5L 4 cylinder engine means refinement is at par with what your dad is used to in the Honda City. The 4-speed TC AT is adequate for city driving and the occasional highway trips. I guess you can get the top spec S Cross within your budget. Also, the NA engine means long term reliability for sure.

All the turbo cars presently available within your budget are 3 cylinder engines. So, refinement/NVH levels, especially at lower RPMs, are inferior when compared to the City's 4 cylinder unit. Turbo engines are more complex in nature but I guess with today's technological advancements, they can run up to about 10 years without much trouble.

If you are planning to keep the car beyond 10 years, a car with an NA engine should be your priority. If you are ok with the slightly less refined 3 cylinder 1.5 NA, Ecosport is a great choice (facelifted version coming soon). Not suggesting Toyota Yaris since you have ruled out sedans. Good luck!

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Artyom

Scross is a 4 speed AT and i heard it gets loud around 80 or 90.Is that true?
Ecosport is the default choice but afraid due to Fords future plans.
Another query is for Duster .Is that still a good buy in Auto transmission.I heard rumours that Duster will be discontinued.
Appreciate your response and help.

Yes, the 4 speed AT is a big kill joy for an enthusiastic driver but overall shouldn't be a deal breaker for mainly city commute with relaxed highway drives.

For NVH best to see the car once and judge how it is compared to the city. What I find disturbing goes unnoticed by my parents and at times even service centers

The EcoSport : there are fears but Ford today is in a better shape than Chevy was when GM pulled out. Parts are still available, and the endeavour seems to be selling quite well. Service and parts shouldn't be an issue even if they pull out but best to wait and watch a few months if it's not an immediate requirement.
But do take a test drive because the stiff suspension isn't for everyone.

The Duster is a capable option. It's built for abuse, has a brilliant suspension, and the engine and gearbox is enticing too. But it looks dated, and Renault/Nissan Service centers aren't great.

Ideally the Kushaq/Taigun is your best bet. If the base trim comes with decent enough kit, could be worth considering and adding on the seat covers and alloys and such over a period of time.
If it doesn't work out, the next best bet is S Cross.

Ecosport and Duster are good capable vehicles, that have been let down by the manufacturers.

[Artyom]

Appreciate everyone's feedback and certainly it brings a lot of perspectives in which I didn't consider earlier. Based upon the discussion so far it seems that a NA engine is a safest option but a Turbo unit would not be bad either. My dad yesterday just glanced through the S cross and was satisfied with the build and the overall vehicle. He could not take a TD as the showroom was about to close. The next set of vehicles he would be checking out and test driving are Sonet,Venue,Seltos and S cross.
Now while discussing he was open to trying a Automatic version which makes more sense to me now after the suggestions coming from members. That again brings me to the question under 14 which is a good and reliable Auto Transmission unit which we can try and finalize if need be. I was checking and Sonet and Venue both have DCT only as the auto transmission unit which will be an overkill.So what other vehicles would you like him to test drive(Auto Units) which can be considered.

The reason I am asking for specific vehicles is because I dont want him to wander around every showroom amidst Corona so my question might seem to many as being spoon fed. Apologies in advance for that

Its like based upon suggestion we will try those units and finalize. I trust the forum members more than myself so Kindly Adjust Maadi

[lamborghini]

Only other option is Kushaq which is above the price point but could be worth checking out even in manual guise.