[SgtRepeat]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

That is unlikely. It'll make it's way into the next gen Endeavour.

That said, the current engine is quite sprightly and coupled with that gem of a gearbox, has enough oomph, unless one wants to drag race at traffic lights.

Yes, I meant the next gen Endeavour, of course.

I can personally vouch for the sprightly engine and the amazing gearbox, not to forget the oodles of torque, but it is a little disappointing to see the same 170 bhp power figure as in the Harrier, a car that costs almost half as much as the Endeavour does. That combined with the Endeavour's 2.4 tonne kerb weight definitely makes a case for a more powerful engine, at least on paper.

[cool_dube]

Caution - long read!

Penning my experiences down, with the intent of helping fellow BHP-ians get some perspective on this highly discussed topic - no offence meant to anyone!

Well, I know I voted for the Fortuner less than a month ago, as mentioned in post #3 of this thread. So, what makes me want to change my vote to the Endeavour? Read on to find out...

I've been an out-and-out SUV guy from as long back as I learned to drive, more than 2 decades back. Have never owned a sedan in my life, and do not see myself owning one in the future, either! Needless to say, I have been an avid follower of the full-size SUV scenario in India, which implies that both heavyweights - the Endeavour and the Fortuner - have been on my radar for some time now, the mighty and super-capable (albeit aging) Pajero SFX in my garage notwithstanding. That said, I must admit that I got my hands dirty with (read "experienced") these SUVs up close and personal only very recently. The other 2 SUVs - Gloster and Alturas G4 - do not figure on my list for obvious reasons, no offence to admirers/owners of either of these.

I am sure most of you would agree with me that Ford India has made life very frustrating for shoppers in this segment, by dropping the 3.2 lit engine from the lineup! If not for that, many of us would have just booked the Endeavour without even blinking twice. But come BS6 and Ford India gave us a mixed bag of surprises - out went that torque-monster of an engine (the 3.2 lit) and in came the new kid on the block, the 2.0 EcoBlue (code-named "panther" to signify the punch packed by this small-sized engine), very ably supported by the butter-smooth 10-speed transmission. The first knee-jerk reaction from most would have been - "Damn, I missed the bus! Should've picked that 3.2 up while I still could, fresh from the factory". Well, that's not going to happen. So, let's move on. With this development, the choice was again a difficult one - the mighty Fortuner, with its decade long legacy, backed by the impeccable reputation of Toyota, or the ruggedly handsome Endeavour, with its inexplicable charm and charisma.

So, I decided to get my hands dirty and started calling dealers for test drives. Now mind you, I was getting into this test drive business after more than a decade, when I had multiple TDs of Safari and Scorpio back in 2009, eventually buying the Safari. Initial impressions - Ford guys were super courteous and got me a TD car within a day of my request, bang on time, having sent me a video of the sanitization procedure followed before getting the car for the TD. Not bad! Awed as I was with the Endeavour - have been a fan since its launch - I was blown away by the sheer street presence and boxy looks of the beast up so close! Climbed inside and immediately loved the interiors - have been a fan of light colored interiors since my Safari days. Won't drag this section as enough and more has been said about the interiors of the Endeavour. Coming to the drive, this was my first drive of an automatic and hence, took some time getting used to. The car pulled from standstill very smoothly, not with a surge of power akin to what I feel in my Pajero, but a pleasant linear acceleration. The engine was very silent and the gearbox went about its job smoothly, with me barely feeling the shifts. I drove the car over good, bad, and ugly terrain, and was very impressed with the ride. While I am not a big fan of sun-roofs, I realized that it does light up the cabin in a nice way and gives it an airy feel. The music system was awesome and the overall ride experience was very very impressive. Next up was the Fortuner - called up my nearest Toyota dealer and got to know that they still do not have a BS6 vehicle for test drive (seriously? we are in December 2020). I was okay with a BS4 and told them so. Was promised a TD after 2 days. Well, the car did come, a full hour and a half past the promised hour - reason: driver was out for lunch! Anyways, I was glad it was here at last. First thing I noticed was the engine noise - very loud and gruff. Now, I own a Pajero SFX which comes with an archaic engine, and hence I am used to loud diesels. But this one sounded rough in a very "truck-ish" sort of way, which many would like, I'm sure. Stepping in, I was greeted with sad interiors - again, enough said about this so won't get into the details. This was an M/T and man, was it hot! From the moment you release the clutch, a wall of torque accompanies you like a guardian angel. It is addictive and I was loving it, ignoring EVERYTHING else in the car. Drove the car over the same route as the Endeavour, and the difference in ride quality was very evident - I was being thrown about like anything. But I was so engrossed in enjoying the juicy engine, I ignored everything else. TD done, I made up my mind that this will be my next SUV - the Fortuner 4x4 M/T.

Next up, was a visit to respective showrooms to check the cars out in detail. I will not get into details here but overall, I was disappointed with levels of build quality of the Fortuner, again no offence to owners please, these are my personal observations and I could be wrong. Few things that stood out - body panels were quite light to the touch, doors did not close with a solid feel, underbody protection was not satisfactory for a 4x4 SUV, quality of plastics inside (switches, et al) was not premium at all, and so on. The Endeavour, on the other hand, felt solid from all aspects - the panels were heavy, doors closed with a reassuring "thud", underbody had enough protection (thick plates), and the overall feel was very satisfying. Came back confused again!

Planned for another round of test drives - this time, to focus on aspects which might have been overlooked during the first round. Drove the Endeavour a little differently this time, a little more aggressively, trying out the "S" mode, and was pleasantly surprised by the punch of the engine, best part being the smoothness of gear shifts and refinement of the engine. Could not help notice the lovely music system, precise steering, adequate dashboard height, etc. This was in sharp contrast to the sub-par music system on the Fortuner, not to mention the oddly raised dashboard with A/C vents at almost your face level. Next up was the Fortuner in its A/T guise this time - right from the word "Go", the gearbox seemed super confused, resulting in over-revving of the engine most of the time. Loud as it is, the engine noise was very prominent inside the cabin due to this. I immediately ruled the A/T out, if I were to go for the Fortuner. So, down to Fortuner M/T vs. Endeavour A/T! Oh, and yes - so as to leave no stone unturned, I test drove a pre-owned Endeavour 3.2 as well. With all other things remaining the same, the 6-speed transmission was nowhere as impressive as the 10-speed, with lots of sudden shifts, resulting in over-revving of the engine at slower speeds. That said, the difference in power/torque was quite evident during highway drives and for a spirited driver (which I am not), this one would clearly take the cake over the 2.0! Net-net, the Endeavour 2.0 was starting to stand out as the most likeable of the lot, for me at least.

From here on, for any potential buyer, things start to get subjective and a lot of factors come into play. I will try and summarize my conclusions as crisply as possible.

* Fortuner M/T - clearly an enthusiast's choice, offering oodles of torque on tap with better control via the manual gearbox. However, this would come at a significant cost - interiors, sound system, ride comfort, etc. This would have been my choice if I were a bachelor in my late 20s or early 30s That said, someone who values engine power over everything else, would pick this eyes closed, especially with the supposed increase in power/torque figures on the upcoming facelift.

* Fortuner A/T - not sure who'd buy this, unless being driven around

* Endeavour 2.0 - offering a much superior overall driving experience, my vote has now changed to the Endeavour 2.0 simply because it is a better "package" if you will. The 2.0 lit engine is more than adequate for my needs (note: I am a sedate driver who rarely cruises at triple-digit speeds) and I am okay with the relatively lower power/torque figures for everything else that I am getting over the Fortuner, and the list is quite long - pleasant interiors, better ICE, solid build, better 4x4 hardware (rear diff lock, full-time 4wd), lovely gearbox, superb LED headlamps, to name a few. Another factor - with age catching up, and traffic getting worse, it is time to move on to A/T's!

The fact remains that there is no such thing as a perfect SUV (or a perfect car, or perfect anything, for that matter), and it all boils down to one's priorities, which, to make things more difficult, keep changing with time and age

Hope this analysis helps fellow enthusiasts shopping in this segment! Thanks for reading through!

[ruzbehxyz]

Price comparison.



Source: AUTOCAR.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

lovely gearbox

Before you put down money on a Ford fitted with a 10 speed gearbox, make sure you take as much extended warranty as you can. There is a recall for them in some countries. No known reports of failures in India but I imagine the 10R80, 10R140 is the same gearbox we get.


https://www.classaction.org/blog/def...ears.%E2%80%9D

It is possible to view the Case ID numbers on NHTSA.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Well, I know I voted for the Fortuner less than a month ago, as mentioned in post #3 of this thread. So, what makes me want to change my vote to the Endeavour? Read on to find out...

So, here we are back to square one - Toyota launches the updated Fortuner with goodies (well, these should have been there to begin with, for a 40-lac car, IMO) like rear differential lock, 11-speaker JBL sound system, ventilated seats, connect car tech, and above all, that monster of an engine with 204 PS/500 Nm figures, whereas Ford drops features like Active Noise Cancellation and rear heater from the Endeavour, which gave it an edge over the Fortuner! Net-net, the feature gap is closing albeit at the cost of increase in price gap The 4x4 A/T variant of the Fortuner now costs a whopping ~4 lac more than the Endeavour Titanium+ 4x4 A/T on-road in Bangalore.

What is your pick?

[volkman10]

MG Gloster arrives with a bang! Slots as the second largest selling SUV in DEC sales.

Displaces Ford's Endeavour in just second month of its launch.



Source: Auto Punditz

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by volkman10

MG Gloster arrives with a bang! Slots as the second largest selling SUV in DEC sales. Displaces Ford's Endeavour in just second month of its launch.

Not surprising! With the advent of Fortuner facelift, Endeavour will face further setback in sales.

[ulhas.ahirrao]

I am in dilemma on this one! I am looking for an upgrade and owning a full size 'proper' SUV is a dream.

Did Endveour TD and came back impressed. All the good things have been discussed on the forum so will not get in to it, but the car is solid like a tank and I loved it.

Fortuner for me is a non starter as sun roof is a must. Plus ride quality also is sub-par. The interiors do not feel premium at all.

MG dealer experience was horrendous and I just crossed it from the list.

When it comes to product I have no doubt that Endi it is for me, BUT the only thing that's holding me back is Ford's future in India. Saw the Dec numbers and sales for Ford is declining for all models. If it continues it won't be too long before it shuts shop here.

I intend to keep the car for long (10 years), what do you guys think about this aspect of Ford's stability in India? Should it be a show stopper? I am pretty confused

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by ulhas.ahirrao

When it comes to product I have no doubt that Endi it is for me, BUT the only thing that's holding me back is Ford's future in India

If you are good with the Endeavour from all aspects - most importantly, the 2 lit engine - then go for it without any apprehensions about Ford's future in India. Ford's manufacturing facility in India is very strategic to it's operations, not just from domestic market but also export point of view. I do not see them throwing in the towel, at least in the near term. Endeavour is a lovely SUV and you cannot go wrong with it, although long-term reliability of the relatively new 2.0 lit engine and 10-speed gearbox is yet to be established.

That said, if I were you, I would take a good look at Fortuner facelift as well, which is a VERY tempting package now with all those goodies on offer and above all, that monster of an engine. From what I hear, Toyota has re-tuned the suspension as well, to improve ride quality. For those who are suckers for manual transmission, Fortuner is a no-brainer as it is the only (and probably the last) option to own a big diesel 4x4 SUV in manual avatar.

At the end of the day, it is an individual choice; I would say Endeavour is still a better overall package - great driving dynamics, lovely suspension, arguably better interiors, sun-roof (for those to whom it matters) - albeit, compromising to an extent on the engine front (for some - there is no replacement for displacement), whereas Fortuner shines when it comes to engine power, reliability, and solid after-sales support. Ford has been disappointing its fan-base with regular/unpredictable/irrational feature deletions, latest ones being ANC, rear heater, removal of sub-woofer and IP speaker (4x2 variants), etc. which personally to me is not something that a committed manufacturer should be doing with its flagship product. Toyota, on the other hand, has been jacking up the prices of the Fortuner like there is no tomorrow!

Net-net, you cannot go wrong with either of these SUVs. Both have their strong and weak points - take your pick depending on your preferences and priorities.

Hope this helps!

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Fortuner M/T - clearly an enthusiast's choice, offering oodles of torque on tap with better control via the manual gearbox. However, this would come at a significant cost - interiors, sound system, ride comfort, etc.

With the Fortuner facelift addressing most of the "compromises" listed above, not to mention the beefed-up engine, I am tempted to swing my vote back to Fortuner It is an irresistible package now, making it very hard to swallow the Endeavour's 2.0 lit engine, which was not the case earlier.

[mr_freakky]

Dear BHPians,

My uncle is looking to replace his trustworthy 2009 Toyota Innova VX Diesel which has clocked 180k kms with a full-size SUV/MPV under 45L OTR. He already has a 2017 Honda WRV Diesel as his daily driver and an old 2004 Zen Petrol, which is chauffeur driven for their daily family errands.

Here are his requirements,

1. AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION. A strict NO to Manual Transmission. He'll be turning 50 in a couple of years, and has driving manuals all these days and he wants his next car to be a reliable automatic.

2. Should be a comfortable 6-7 seater. They are a family of 6 and this vehicle is primarily intended for longer road trips and highway runs. They already have a 5 seater crossover for city drives.

3. It has to be a Diesel. Strict NO to petrol engines, as it would be a highway mile muncher, also he's very much inclined towards diesel engines for their torquey nature.

4. It has to be a complete package in terms of drivability, features, comfort, handling and a decent fuel economy is expected. He'll be having it for at least a decade.

5. He is not into offroading, but the car should be capable to handle rough terrains in remote locations and hilly regions. So, 4WD is not a must.

6. The car will be driven by my uncle himself and also chauffeur driven at times. He's not a big fan of electronic gizmos like sunroof, ADAS etc. Decent level of maintenance costs, good ASS and reliability is expected.


CARS CONSIDERED:

1. KIA CARNIVAL LIMOUSINE 7 STR:

• Can comfortably seat 7. It's a true luxurious MPV to upgrade from an Innova
• He's very happy with interiors and comfort levels the MPV offered. He's more of a sedate driver and is happy with the performance the car offered too.
• Offers good boot space even with all three rows up.
• Costs ~41.2 OTR, Erode which is well within his budget.
• Low ground clearance is an issue and when the car is loaded, I fear that it might scrape the speed breakers.
• Since KIA is a relatively new brand in India, he's slightly worried about the ASS and long-term issues.

2. FORD ENDEAVOUR TITANIUM PLUS 2WD/4WD:

• The Endeavour is a true-blue SUV with butch looks and massive road presence which we loved.
• The 2.0L Diesel though slightly under powered when compared with the competitors, is competent enough for our requirements.
• Comes loaded with features - Panoramic sunroof, powered tailgate, Parallel park assist etc,. and is quite a VFM offering in this segment.

3. Recently launched ISUZU MU-X MY2021
4. MG GLOSTER TWIN-TURBO

We're yet to have a look at Isuzu and MG as we don't have showroom in our place and nearest one is at Coimbatore, so can't comment on the two.

Not considering the Mahindra Alturas G4 here, as it is at the verge of discontinuing once and for all.

Also I'm not considering the Toyota Innova Crysta/Toyota Fortuner in this list, as my uncle has extensively driven the Toyota's right from Qualis to Fortuner. He had a Qualis for 6 years, before switching over to Innova in 2009. Heck, our extended family circle has 3 Qualis, 5 Innovas, 3 Crystas and 3 Fortuners. He wants his next car to be unique from his Toyota crowd, and that's the reason to skip the two.

Any other options that I have left out? Please let me know and help me in choosing the right SUV/MPV for our requirements. Thanks in advance.

[AirWind]

Here is my word of caution - for someone spoilt by a Toyota, only another Toyota can be a perfect replacement - Do not look elsewhere!

Highly recommend the Fortuner Legender (2WD only) though expensive but could provide the crucial bit of luxury and differentiation over the other models in your family/friends circle. Truth be told, I have developed a crush on it - had it been a little cheaper, I would have bought one, although within my reach, I skipped it as it didn't seem like VFM.

An Innova Crysta ZX can also be a perfect replacement for the old Innova, its a whole generation different and comes with a bit more bells and whistles, but I don't see it VFM at 30L. But this is a strict 4+2 seater. You can also buy the GX version and soup it up to a VX spec and save 5L but wouldn't recommend that you compromise on safety.

Endeavour is a good choice too, Ford service has improved (in Coimbatore but not sure in Erode?), you can also get the entry 2WD variant without the sunroof at 35L.

KIA Carnival Limousine - the new kid in the block, is an excellent vehicle too and will be unique in our markets, I haven't seen one in Coimbatore yet. Good discounts were available to the tune of 3L on last yr models.

Alturas is a strictly a 5 seater, the last row is impractical and not sure of the brand's future.

The relaunched old Isuzu MUX is exorbitantly priced, not sure of the brands future and hence dead on arrival.

MG Gloster suffers from terrible turbo lag / low end grunt in town, its huge size make its maneuvering in city tough!

You could look at the TATA Safari, which is much improved over the old Harrier and has got nothing in common with the old Safari except the name. And save some 20L.

[hridaygandhi]

If you really liked the Kia Carnival, and the only thing you are worried about is ASS, fret not. Kia, although a new brand, is here to stay and with ever-expanding dealer network and sales, you are not likely to face any issue in that regard. Except for the occasional scraping, the Carnival is the perfect tourer and upgrade from the Innova. (I am eliminating Crysta and Fortuner since you are sure you don't want them, although Crysta is a worthy upgrade).

Endeavour is a no non-sense car, one you are not likely to go wrong with and you won't be disappointed if you pick one, but for your use, the Carnival is a better option.

I would not look at the MG Gloster since you are coming from Toyota and the Isuzu is just the old car in BS-6 guise and frankly overpriced for what it offers.

[manasmadaan]

Hello everyone,

I am in the market for an SUV in the 30-40 lakh bracket.

Requirements (Not in any particular order):

1) Proper SUV
2) Diesel (obviously)
3) Premium feel and interiors
4) Ability to go almost anywhere.
5) Features list (obviously after spending such money)
6) Decent to good after sales experience
7) Good enough ride quality
8) Audio experience should be good
9) 4X4 is welcome, although not a necessity

The choice now is between Ford Endeavour 4x2 AT Titanium plus and Mahindra Alturus G4 4x4 AT. Fortuner is already ruled out.

I know that ford's is probably a superior product as compared to mahindra's but the catch is that there is a massive 3 lakh discount going on for Alturus bringing the 4X4 OTR to around 33 lakhs whereas Endeavour does not have any discounts and is priced around 37.89 lakhs OTR for 4x2.
So there is around 6 lakhs cost difference between the two and i also get the 4x4 in Alturus vs 4x2 in Endeavour.

Before everyone says that Mahindra's ASS is a hit or miss, i have driven XUV 500 for 7 years and have never faced any problems there and i have a good repo with most of the service advisors there.

I am really confused between the two.

Kindly help me in deciding between the two.

Thanks

[AZT]

Originally Posted by manasmadaan

So there is around 6 lakhs cost difference between the two and i also get the 4x4 in Alturus vs 4x2 in Endeavour.

I remember reading on this forum that the Alturas may be discontinued soon. You need to ask yourself if you'd be fine with that 1 or 2 years down the line.