[rrsteer]

I have been looking to buy a 8+ seater family van for the past six months. Ever since, the birth of my second daughter, who is one year old now, I find our trusty Innova to be cramped for our requirements on certain occasions.

Specifically, our requirement is for a van that would comfortably accommodate 5 - 6 adults + 2 children and their luggage and would see about 1000 kms of running per month ( or say two trips to Himachal and back in a month). At the same time, we also own an Innova and an Etios (P). The Innova is a 2012 model, 194k kms on the clock and the Etios is a 2011 model with 45k kms on the clock. Both vehicles are in excellent condition and I don't want to replace them for another 4-5 years at-least. Given, that this van would have a very specific use, I have a budget of 7-8 lacs for buying the proposed van. My requirement, potentially leaves me with unconventional options, so in my mind I have budgeted 5-6 lacs for purchase and around 2-3 lacs for rennovation and some customization.

Now, over the past few months I checked a number of cars and thought of a number of different permutations and combinations. Without sharing much details, I would say given my experience with the Innova, I was not impressed with any of the following due to one reason or the other: Hexa, Crysta, Mazzaro, Evalia, Logan and Xylo. It is to be noted, that my prime consideration is more space and comfort, and none of them significantly bettered the Innova in that department.

In my mind, I am left with two choices: a Tata Winger or a Force Traveller.
Winger is my preference, but apart from a couple of them, I just couldn't find a privately registered Winger in good condition (I found zero Wingers with the 2.2 Dicor engine - the platinum variant). I recently, found a 2013 Winger in good condition and was very happy about it, but lost the deal due to my foolishness. There are a couple of Force Travellers in my radar, but I feel its just a tad too big for my requirement. Although, if I find nothing I will eventually buy one of these. (The option of hiring a Traveller for our need doesn't exist - the van has to be self driven)

Now, yesterday through one of my acquaintances I located a 2004 ex-embassy Toyota HiAce (as per current owner). It has clocked a shade under 2 lac kms. I checked the vehicle myself and also got it checked (briefly) from a Toyota specialist in Ludhiana (he worked in the UAE with one of the Toyota dealers as a service head). I personally found the van to be in good nick. Following were my observations: It had no rust, no modifications were done on the exterior or the interior, the seats had original upholstery which wasn't torn, Toyota branded audio system, AC cooled (but it was 9 am in the morning) the engine started with a longish self, but sounded healthy and no blue smoke from the exhaust. The Toyota specialist focused on the engine mainly and he feels the engine is ok and should run fine. Its a 3L Diesel.

I am still in discussions with the owner about the price, but it is in my budget. It is a 14 seater, but if I buy it, I will remove the seats and replace them with captain seats from Innova. The other thing is, I haven't verified the papers yet. The car currently has a private PB based number (which is good for me).

Now, my question is, what can go wrong if I buy this vehicle:
1) From a mechanical perspective
2) From a legal perspective (emissions, fuel norms etc.)
3) From an ownership perspective (serviceability etc. - I am hearing that due to the simple nature of the vehicle, it can be serviced without much difficulty in and around Punjab, which has its share of imported cars )
4) Opportunity cost ( 1-2 years down the line the large MPV market cracks opens with the launch of Carnival. Although I just can't imagine the Kia Carnival to cost less than Rs 25 lacs and I can't ever bring myself to spend that kind of an amount on a car.)

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

I have been looking to buy a 8+ seater family van

There are a couple of Force Travellers in my radar

I located a 2004 ex-embassy Toyota HiAce (as per current owner). It has clocked a shade under 2 lac kms.personally found the van to be in good nick. Its a 3L Diesel.
Now, my question is, what can go wrong if I buy this vehicle:
1) From a mechanical perspective
2) From a legal perspective (emissions, fuel norms etc.)
3) From an ownership perspective
4) Opportunity cost

1) nothing will go wrong with the HiAce mechanically
2) you might see yourself paying annual tax if the rto regulations specify so since this is an import plus if the 15 year rule kicks in, you have to weigh the risk of a higher cost of renewing registration vs what you would get if you sold the van.
3) fuss free ownership experience; just that the frontal protection is next to Nil.
4) opportunity cost low

Toyotas of this vintage will outlast three generations of a family.

Go for it if you're sure you can source parts from the UAE.

[v12]

From what I have read and heard, the Hiace's are bullet proof and can run for upto lakhs of kms with regular servicing. I believe any well reputed workshop should be able to take care of the regular services (as long as the parts are available)

From a legal perspective, its better to get all the papers checked thoroughly. Since it was converted from a Embassy car (CC plates) to private registration (PB) - the current owner should have paid all the dues (I am not sure if it is customs duty, penalty or what) - check if those papers are clear. Check if its a clean transfer from CC to PB.

[GTO]

While I have no qualms in owning a car for 15+ years & 2+ lakh km (my Jeep is proof of that), I will absolutely not buy someone else's car that is as old. Primary reason = I don't know its history.

Many things could go wrong. For one, you won't get comprehensive insurance for such an old car. Just 3rd-party. Therefore, one bad crash or theft and you're looking at big losses.

If something major should go wrong mechanically, an 8-lakh car can quickly become a 10-lakh car. Whether it's a Toyota or anything else, at 15 years & 2 lakh km, many parts will be at the end of their useful life.

My suggestion: For 5 adults + 2 kids, the Innova will do just well. When you have 6 adults + 2 kids, either squeeze into the Innova or take along a 2nd car. One more option could be UVs like the TUV300 XL which have side-facing 3rd row seats. These can very easily fit in 6 adults + 2 kids. That 2.2L mHawk is damn good!

[landcruiser123]

Hi rrsteer,
Both your options are a downgrade to the Innova. Replacing an Innova with your budget is tough. A 15 year old used Hiace with 2 lakhs on the ODO is a no-no, especially when you're going to make long trips on it. As GTO says, squeeze your folks in the Innova or take 2 cars.

Originally Posted by GTO

One more option could be UVs like the TUV300 XL which have side-facing 3rd row seats. These can very easily fit in 6 adults + 2 kids. That 2.2L mHawk is damn good!

Wouldn't recommend. My family has done many trips in South India with 5 adults and 2 children and the side-facing seats were everybody's (including mine) nightmare in the Qualis- the Innova was much better with forward facing seats. Even with an improved suspension tune, I wouldn't recommend side facing seats to anyone, especially if the intended use is in the hilly regions of Himachal.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by vigsom

1) nothing will go wrong with the HiAce mechanically

Originally Posted by v12

From what I have read and heard, the Hiace's are bullet proof and can run for upto lakhs of kms with regular servicing.

Thanks, I feel more confident!

Originally Posted by GTO

When you have 6 adults + 2 kids, either squeeze into the Innova or take along a 2nd car. One more option could be UVs like the TUV300 XL which have side-facing 3rd row seats. These can very easily fit in 6 adults + 2 kids. That 2.2L mHawk is damn good!

2 cars just takes away the fun. I expected this advice (having followed your posts on What car querries), and dreaded it too, but since I have to get a larger van, I think the HiAce presents a good compromise at the moment.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Both your options are a downgrade to the Innova. Replacing an Innova with your budget is tough. A 15 year old used Hiace with 2 lakhs on the ODO is a no-no, especially when you're going to make long trips on it. As GTO says, squeeze your folks in the Innova or take 2 cars.

The trips will be limited to Palampur from Jalandhar and within cities of Punjab. So we are looking at a max 400km roundtrip each time and at no time very far from our home. So, at this time quite inclined towards HiAce. Will be meeting the owner tomorrow and will keep the thread updated.

[vijayshouree]

Hello rrsteer - Replace your Innova's captain seats with a bench (if possible), then you can get 7-seater. and Squeezing in 6 adults and 2 children might not be that much of a problem. You can also go with an option that GTO has suggested. TUV300+.

That said, I have seen a couple of HiAces in Hyderabad. One at interior lanes of jubilee hills. The van looks damn good, unlike Winger. Toyota is synonymous for reliability, but the real problem is with spare parts.

[superbad]

How about the Trax Toofan. Weak engine on paper & probably atrocious quality but it is regularly (ab)used in the rural areas for transporting upto 15-20 people, so it must get the job done. Remove the side facing rear seats & add a front facing bench. On road price comes out to be around 8.5l.

[jaguar.runs]

Go for the HiAce if everything looks okay mechanically and if the documents are ok. Have seen HiAces with million kilometers clocked still running strong. Its a comfortable vehicle and being an ex-embassy vehicle, I assume that the vehicle is not a base spec.

It would help if you can post a reference picture, as HiAce went through a model change in year 2004.

[silverado]

I love HIACE, its simply a magical bus/van.
You can also look out for Nissan Evalia, that is also a spacious van.

Other option would be to buy a brand new ISUZU V-max and modify the rear bed to have front facing seats.( Innova 3rd row seats ).

[kkr2k2]

Originally Posted by vijayshouree

Hello rrsteer - Replace your Innova's captain seats with a bench (if possible), then you can get 7-seater. and Squeezing in 6 adults and 2 children might not be that much of a problem...

Plus

Do have a look at the option of adding a luggage box on the roof. You do get some aerodynamically well designed luggage boxes from reputed brands like Thule. The largest I have seen is little over 600L of capacity.

[TejasKinger]

If I'm not wrong, the Ashok Leyland Stile (badge-engineered Nissan Evalia which was sold as a 7-seater) was sold as an 8-seater car in India. If you can get your hands on one, adding a rooftop luggage carrier might be a viable option for a nice 8-seater van.

I've seen plenty of them with Uber operating under the UberXL category here down south. Fairly comfortable vehicles. With its robust and simple mechanicals, it should be reliable and easy to maintain.

Another option could also be a Mahindra Bolero XL. If I remember correctly, the Bolero XL came in 7,8, and 9 seater configurations.

[rrsteer]

An update from my side. I have bought the HiAce in question. It is a risk no doubt, but I was willing to take it. Will post a longish review around Diwali, when I am back from a short travel - incidentally to Japan!

Also, I had erroneously mentioned that the vehicle is registered in PB. It is in the process of being registered in PB.

The owner also says the km reading was rigged by the Hungarian embassy to show more kms, so as to get higher compensation. According to him the actual running is about a lakh kms. For what its worth he told me this after I had purchased the van. Can there be any truth to the statement?

[roamer012]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

An update from my side. I have bought the HiAce in question. It is a risk no doubt, but i was willing to take it. Will post a longish review around Diwali, when I am back from a short travel - incidentally to Japan!

Congratulations on the purchase. For what its worth, at least the body looks clean with no sign of rusting from the angles which you have posted. Also are those Innova alloys?

As you have posted earlier, taking more than one vehicle ruins the fun and i can not agree more. At the cost of being uncomfortable, i have squeezed people in same car just so that all of us could be together.

For ODO tampering, can OBD port throw any light on this? 1 lac km for a fifteen years old vehicle (@~550km per month) that too for a van is plausible only if it was used to ferry staff in a city who were residing within 10-15 kms of the destination. Unless the vehicle idled for a considerable period of time, i would take it with a pinch of salt. Nobody buys Toyota vans to do less than 20-30 kms a day.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Also, I had erroneously mentioned that the vehicle is registered in PB. It is in the process of being registered in PB.

The owner also says the km reading was rigged by the Hungarian embassy to show more kms, so as to get higher compensation. According to him the actual running is about a lakh kms. For what its worth he told me this after I had purchased the van. Can there be any truth to the statement?

Congratulations on the purchase. More than the Odo Reading, I will be worried about the transfer, It's a long process and not always successful as I found out when I was searching for a used Embassy LC- Pardo incidentally from Ludhiana. I see HR plates, if this is already registered in Haryana, I will suggest you transfer in your name at the same RTO, it should be possible even if you don't have a permanent address.

Regarding ODO, Consulates are not in such business, they don't bother for such reimbursements or expenses. You should get a Third-party Insurance at earliest if it's missing.