[yogiraj]

Friends,

I am looking for a used 4x4, preferably in Pune, Mumbai and areas around and here are the options that I am looking at

1. Grand Vitara 2.4 MT (I know I am aiming for moon given the rarity of the vehicle, but I am still hopeful. Anyone here having GV, please message me your number and I’ll convince you to sell it off, of course to me;-))
2. Gypsy 1.3 MPFI. No introduction needed.
3. Pajero Sport MT
4. Fortuner MT 4x4 (Post 2012 model)
5. Pajero SFX

Requirements are
1. I don’t intend to do serious off roading however I want to participate in Raid in couple of years.
2. Preferably 7 Seater with decent 2nd and 3rd row comfort. We are already 5 and half in our family and as my kid grows up, we need this space.
3. If I get my hands on either GV or Gypsy, I plan to buy another seven Seater touring vehicle for long distance tours, mostly a used Innova or a new Marazzo.
4. The vehicle will be a daily drive

I’ll not list pros of these vehicles here, we all know those. I’ll list the negatives as per my assessment for each of these.

Grand Vitara 2.4 MT
1. Availability
2. Spares availability

Gypsy 1.3 MPFI
1. Bumpy ride
2. No comfort features at all

Pajero Sport MT
1. Lack of service history tracking (Based on one of the dealer in Mumbai, it is not trackable across service centres). Experts and fellow Pajero Sport owners, please enlighten me.
2. Ability to accommodate 3 adults in 2nd row and 2 in 3rd without being thrown all over the places when driven on broken roads. Please enlighten me.
3. Low end torque, however this should be manageable and can be resolved using some tuning boxes.

Fortuner
1. Bumpy ride quality. I had almost zeroed down on the Fortuner as my next Vehicle, but recently got a chance take a Self Drive fortuner for three days to Mahabaleshwar and the middle row passengers were getting thrown all around when driven on broken roads.
2. 3rd row seating
3. Body roll
Only one thing I am not really sure is, was this ride and handling an outcome of goofed up suspension setup for that particular vehicle or it is like that only.

Pajero SFX
1. It can comfortably sit only 4 people in 1st and 2nd rows due to seat layout. Found 3rd row to be least useful.
2. Service history traceability


Experts, please guide me on above points.
And let me know if you come across any of these vehicles being offered in used car market.

Thanks,

Yogi.

[dhanushs]

Out of these, I can comment on the Pajero SFX and the Gypsy.

I would rate the Pajero very highly on manners and ride comfort. However, the engine is a HUGE letdown. It's pathetically underpowered and also not very fuel efficient. What you say about seating only 4 is also true. However, the Pajero behaves excellent off the road. The level of comfort and control going offroad with the Pajero has to be seen to believe. Well, another plus is that you can buy these vehicles for a very cheap rate and maintenance wise they are pretty reliable. And, most parts are available.

The Gypsy is very crude. You literally can't drive long distances or seat more than 2 comfortably. However, it scores really high in reliability and offroad ability. Also, maintenance and resale too is a plus.

[hserus]

Scorpio or XUV 4wd
Endeavor AT - blows the Fortuner out of the water features and comfort wise

[starter]

These are very different vehicles and difficult to compare them all at the same time.
For specifically raid (am assuming extreme), your top choice should be the GV 2.4 and the second choice - Gypsy.

For your reference, i own a Gypsy and a Fortuner (3L D4D version - 4wd MT).

Depends on the expectations and priorities, the Fortuner is an excellent vehicle. Extremely reliable and capable. The stock suspension is alright. You could improve it with an ARB suspension kit (costs ~ 80K).

[fine69]

Originally Posted by yogiraj

Friends,

I am looking for a used 4x4, preferably in Pune, Mumbai and areas around and here are the options that I am looking at

What's your budget?

Originally Posted by yogiraj

Requirements are
1. I don’t intend to do serious off roading however I want to participate in Raid in couple of years.
2. Preferably 7 Seater with decent 2nd and 3rd row comfort. We are already 5 and half in our family and as my kid grows up, we need this space.
3. If I get my hands on either GV or Gypsy, I plan to buy another seven Seater touring vehicle for long distance tours, mostly a used Innova or a new Marazzo.
4. The vehicle will be a daily drive

Is point number one really your priority number one? A vehicle chosen for Motorsports has its own criteria and would rarely overlap the criteria one sets for their daily drive. I'd keep point number one aside, especially since its a couple of years away.

Fortuner is an amazing vehicle and I recently changed the entire suspension (stock setup only) for my 2013 pre-owned Fortuner and that made a lot of difference to the ride quality. ARB or Ironman Comfort would take up the ride quality a few notches above (with or without the lift as one may prefer). If you keep aside 100k for a suspension upgrade then nothing really beats the bullet-proof Fortuner for the vehicle it is.

There are enough Pajero, Gypsy and Grand Vitara ownership threads so I'd stray away from these but what I'd strongly recommend over anything (including the Fortuner) would be the new Endeavour.

There just isn't a better SUV than the Endeavour 3.2 today. But if you find it out of your budget then do look at 2.2, however underpowered it may have been labelled, it really isn't that bad.

Endeavour (whether 2.2 or 3.2) is a far superior vehicle and I'm still amazed at why it doesn't sell in the numbers it truly deserves. Fortuner, when it came to India in 2009 was already an old vehicle by world's SUV market standard but beggars couldn't be choosers so we went with the flow. However, when Ford bought the new Endeavour then they bridged that gap and how.

We now have a world-class product priced really well, especially when you look at the alternatives. Test drive a 2.2 (assuming 3.2 may be out of budget) and you'd be pleasantly surprised. If 3.2 is an option then you just shouldn't look elsewhere.

If you want a 4WD then 2.2 MT is indeed available in 4x4 but you would have to be patient to find one in the used car market. All the best!

[yogiraj]

A bit about budgets I am looking at. The vehicles that I have shortlisted are from various different categories so there is no single number as such, however, for each of them I have an upper limit based on market situation today (Obviously, negotiable on case to case basis to some extent).
1. GV 2.4 MT: 7 Lacs (I can actually post-pone a decision to buy another 7 seater by a year or so and use self drive options for long distance tours in near future)
2. Gypsy 1.3 MPFI: 4 Lacs.(Cannot move family in this, so need to buy another 7 seater fairly quickly)
3. Pajero Sport MT: 12 Lacs.
4. Fortuner MT 4x4: 16 Lacs
5. Pajero SFX: 9 Lacs. (Confused a bit here since this is a sellers market for Pajero, but given the seating capacity, I may still need to use either a self drive or buy another 7 seater)

Depending upon what vehicle or what combination of vehicles I end up buying, 16-17 Lacs is the maximum I am looking to spend at the moment.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Out of these, I can comment on the Pajero SFX and the Gypsy.

I would rate the Pajero very highly on manners and ride comfort. However, the engine is a HUGE letdown. It's pathetically underpowered and also not very fuel efficient. What you say about seating only 4 is also true. However, the Pajero behaves excellent off the road. The level of comfort and control going offroad with the Pajero has to be seen to believe. Well, another plus is that you can buy these vehicles for a very cheap rate and maintenance wise they are pretty reliable. And, most parts are available.

The Gypsy is very crude. You literally can't drive long distances or seat more than 2 comfortably. However, it scores really high in reliability and offroad ability. Also, maintenance and resale too is a plus.

Thanks for re-assuring my belief that Pajero is comfortable for 4 people only. So it brings me to a point that if I buy Pajero, I need another 7 seater car.

Originally Posted by hserus

Scorpio or XUV 4wd
Endeavor AT - blows the Fortuner out of the water features and comfort wise

I missed to mention two of my requirements
1. It has to be manual, nothing against Automatics, but I simply cannot digest the fact that someone else is controlling the gear shifts.
2. It needs to have a low ratio transfer case.
I might have given a thought to Endeavour 2.2 MT 4x4, but those were sold in very small number and are hard to find in used car market and even if I find, for sure would be 22+ Lacs. I simply don't have the heart to put so much money on something that will get abused (I know they are built to take that abuse, but..)

Originally Posted by starter

These are very different vehicles and difficult to compare them all at the same time.
For specifically raid (am assuming extreme), your top choice should be the GV 2.4 and the second choice - Gypsy.

For your reference, i own a Gypsy and a Fortuner (3L D4D version - 4wd MT).

Depends on the expectations and priorities, the Fortuner is an excellent vehicle. Extremely reliable and capable. The stock suspension is alright. You could improve it with an ARB suspension kit (costs ~ 80K).

You are right, these are very different vehicles. If there were enough GVs available, I would not have looked any further. But unavailability brings up this discussion.
Would ARB Suspension kit reduce the bumpiness and body roll?

Thanks,

Yogi.

[Traveler]

As a first owner of a 2011 Pajero SFX I would like to clear some air around the capabilities of the vehicle.

Seating: The Pajero SFX officially a six seater vehicle. So you are right that the rear seat is for 2 people. However three average adults can no doubt sit on the rear seats without any undue issues. The rest seats also recline to give more adjustments. The last row of seats are comfortable only for children or teenagers but they well cushioned and also offer the ability to recline.

More on the seating, the front seats can be reclined to sit completely flush with the rear seats thereby transforming the Pajero seats into a proper double bed that is completely flat.

Engine and Power: Only one thing to say here. There is no replacement for displacement. The engine is a gem to drive and the low end torque is amazing. It is no highway scorcher but can do 120 kmph all day without breaking a sweat. The stability even at 140+ is out of the world and you feel safe and secure even at such high speeds.

On paper the bhp abs torque numbers may look unimpressive but one drive and you will come away impressed.

Handling: Very nimble to steer and drives like a car is what my wife said when she first drove the Pajero. Her usual ride used be a Zen at that time. I think that says it all. You cannot unsettle this vehicle no matter what you do.

Service and Spares: It costs only about 3500 to service this vehicle with the usual oil, filter and general service items. The parts are available aplenty and easily and any good FNG can service the vehicle properly.

It also has the legendary 4x4 with a proper low ratio transfer case and limited slip rear diff.

If your requirement is to drive occasionally with 5 people then this should be good enough. However if you regularly plan to have more than 5 then a bigger vehicle is warranted.

Hope that helps.

[yogiraj]

Originally Posted by Traveler

As a first owner of a 2011 Pajero SFX I would like to clear some air around the capabilities of the vehicle.

Seating: The Pajero SFX officially a six seater vehicle. So you are right that the rear seat is for 2 people. However three average adults can no doubt sit on the rear seats without any undue issues. The rest seats also recline to give more adjustments. The last row of seats are comfortable only for children or teenagers but they well cushioned and also offer the ability to recline.

It also has the legendary 4x4 with a proper low ratio transfer case and limited slip rear diff.

If your requirement is to drive occasionally with 5 people then this should be good enough. However if you regularly plan to have more than 5 then a bigger vehicle is warranted.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for your inputs Traveler!

I have two questions
1. Can Pajero 2nd row comfortably accommodate 3 medium sized adults ( less than 5.5&rdquo for long distance (shoulder, head, leg room, under thigh and back support)?
2. Any leads on tractability of service record? As far as I was told by a new Mitsubishi dealer in Mumbai, these records are not accessible across dealerships/service centres. Only the service centre where the vehicle was maintained would be able to fetch the history for you. How true is this?

Thanks,

Yogi.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by yogiraj

2. Any leads on tractability of service record? As far as I was told by a new Mitsubishi dealer in Mumbai, these records are not accessible across dealerships/service centres. Only the service centre where the vehicle was maintained would be able to fetch the history for you. How true is this?

Just take a competent mechanic with you to inspect the Pajero in and out including underbody - or have the dealership inspect it for you on paying them a fee. Change the tyres, change all oils and fluids (brake / clutch and gear oil, coolant, engine oil, filters etc). Check for any cracked hoses and replace them.

You shouldn't need much more than this.

[2000rpm]

I am surprised at the absence of Duster in your list.

Though I have not driven the AWD, the forum reviews for the same are very good.

Try to have a look at that. Much better than Gypsy / GV or Mitsubhishi in my view from a usage and ownership perspective. (with required service support and creature comforts)

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by yogiraj

Thanks for your inputs Traveler!

I have two questions
1. Can Pajero 2nd row comfortably accommodate 3 medium sized adults ( less than 5.5&rdquo for long distance (shoulder, head, leg room, under thigh and back support)?
2. Any leads on tractability of service record? As far as I was told by a new Mitsubishi dealer in Mumbai, these records are not accessible across dealerships/service centres. Only the service centre where the vehicle was maintained would be able to fetch the history for you. How true is this?

Thanks,

Yogi.

I would say yes to your first question. Three people less than 5.5 are going to be really fine. The rear seat has a wide and deep squab and there is no issue of under thigh support.

You can get the vehicle checked out by a competent mechanic or even at an authorized service station. The engine and transmission are virtually bulletproof and unless there has been lot of abuse and neglect these two will last forever. The Pajero thrives on frequent oil changes. So if you find any evidence of oil having being changed regularly then that should be good enough. Rest of the vehicle can be inspected for accidental damage and suspension related wear and tear at any good FNG.

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by yogiraj

Can Pajero 2nd row comfortably accommodate 3 medium sized adults ( less than 5.5") for long distance (shoulder, head, leg room, under thigh and back support)?

Yes, only if they are middle sized. unlike Safari where 3 adults can sit comfortably.

Any leads on tractability of service record? As far as I was told by a new Mitsubishi dealer in Mumbai, these records are not accessible across dealerships/service centres. Only the service centre where the vehicle was maintained would be able to fetch the history for you. How true is this?

Its true. If you really want to buy a Mitsubishi, you can not depend on dealerships as they don't stock all spares. I got stuck in Indore for a day because dealer didn't have clutch plate for Pajero Sport. However, there are many shops which stock spares for Pajeros specially SFX (considering number of vehicles sold across India)

I own SFX and driven Pajero Sport and Fortuner many times including 6500 kms Kashmir trip to remote place. Pajero Sport is a superior product compared to Fortuner. Much more comfortable and stable.
But if you are not inclined to maintain your vehicle outside ASS you don't have any other option than Fortuner.
If I would have been in your place:
1) I would have bought SFX if my usage is more of off-road and bad road and less of highways (1000 kms in a day types)
2) If otherwise than Pajero Sport

SS

[rdst_1]

I would also recommend taking a look at Nissan X-trail. I know someone who has used his on the Raid and it is a very competent vehicle with plenty of space and comfort as well.

[yogiraj]

Originally Posted by hserus

Just take a competent mechanic with you to inspect the Pajero in and out including underbody - or have the dealership inspect it for you on paying them a fee. Change the tyres, change all oils and fluids (brake / clutch and gear oil, coolant, engine oil, filters etc). Check for any cracked hoses and replace them.

You shouldn't need much more than this.

Thanks hserus!

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

I am surprised at the absence of Duster in your list.

Though I have not driven the AWD, the forum reviews for the same are very good.

Try to have a look at that. Much better than Gypsy / GV or Mitsubhishi in my view from a usage and ownership perspective. (with required service support and creature comforts)

Well, that's because I am looking at something that has a low ratio transfer case. I missed to mention it in my original post, but have added the requirement as a reply to one of the posts.

Originally Posted by Traveler

I would say yes to your first question. Three people less than 5.5 are going to be really fine. The rear seat has a wide and deep squab and there is no issue of under thigh support.

You can get the vehicle checked out by a competent mechanic or even at an authorized service station. The engine and transmission are virtually bulletproof and unless there has been lot of abuse and neglect these two will last forever. The Pajero thrives on frequent oil changes. So if you find any evidence of oil having being changed regularly then that should be good enough. Rest of the vehicle can be inspected for accidental damage and suspension related wear and tear at any good FNG.

Thanks for clearing my apprehension about second row space. Helps a lot.

Originally Posted by Shubhendra

I own SFX and driven Pajero Sport and Fortuner many times including 6500 kms Kashmir trip to remote place. Pajero Sport is a superior product compared to Fortuner. Much more comfortable and stable.

Do you mean, the bumpiness and body roll in Pajero Sport is lesser compared to Fortuner? How is second row space for three adults, mostly ladies.

Originally Posted by rdst_1

I would also recommend taking a look at Nissan X-trail. I know someone who has used his on the Raid and it is a very competent vehicle with plenty of space and comfort as well.

Well again, lack of low ratio transfer case is what keeps me away.

Thanks,

Yogi.

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by yogiraj

Do you mean, the bumpiness and body roll in Pajero Sport is lesser compared to Fortuner? How is second row space for three adults (around 5'5"), mostly ladies.

Road dynamics are better along with accelerations.
Second row space for three adults is manageable.