[RohitReno9]

Hi all

My first post on T-BHP (well 2nd actually, after the initial hello), although I've been reading up a bit.

I'm in the market for a large SUV, and have a leaning for an import. Given prices of new vehicles, and the mouth watering depreciation (at someone else's cost) after 1-2 years, I'm happy going for a pre-owned European SUV.

After some looking around, I'm considering a Volvo XC90, which in its 3 row avatar i.e. post 2010, comes only in the 3.2 D5 AWD variant.

A short list of what I'm looking for:
# 3 row seating (crammed 3rd row is acceptable)
# high safety, high comfort but not necessarily luxurious
# excellent city road manners and good bad road performance
# long distance touring comfort, particularly in the mid Himalaya and Rajasthan
# high, high reliability
# a further 5-7 years of low hassle ownership, running max 20,000 kms per year
# fair running costs, i.e. availability of parts and service at *affordable* cost

I liked the Volvo for meeting much of the above, but have little idea about its reliability (under Indian road, fuel and climactic conditions) or the likelihood that it will last as a family tourer for 5 years.

Aside: My father and I (we share our wanderlust) want to fulfil his wish to drive from the Zanskar to the Brahmaputra, sometime soonish. And he doesn't travel light, so we end up lugging half the wardrobe and much of the larder on our road trips!

The Volvo also seems to have depreciated faster than its peers, meaning that I pay less for a pre-owned specimen. Just to be clear, I have no adverse view about the brand value of a Volvo, in fact, I prefer a less visible brand. Also, the Volvo, being a CBU, seems, to my eye at least, to have a better quality of finish than some of its peers.

The downside of purchasing a XC90:
# poor service network while touring (vehicle's home will be Delhi, so home service should be fine)
# small numbers of vehicles sold probably means low inventory/ high cost of parts
# end of life model, dated design, low level of in vehicle gadgetry (although the safety features seem comprehensive - roll stability, ESP, Hill Descent is standard)
# poor tolerance to the adulterated diesel fuel common in the mountains?

My question then:
A. Is the Volvo XC90 3.2 D5 a bad/ less than ideal choice? Why?
B. What alternatives exist to the XC90 that broadly meet my needs?

To limit alternatives: my budget is about Rs 25-32 lacs, and would buy me a 2010 or 2011 model XC90 (older models in India came with 2 rows). My father thinks I should get a Mahindra (he likes the look of the XUV 5 double-oh) and bank the spare cash!

I appreciate all pointers - I must be missing stuff out, which I hope all you gurus will warn me of!

TIA
Rohit

PS: I've searched the forum, but found little about the XC90 from the point of buying pre-owned. One user considered it, but went for a (new) Sante Fe instead. Hence this post.

[raj_5004]

Considering your requirements, dont buy the XUV.

Why dont you buy a brand new Land Rover Freelander 2? Yes, it will be a little over your budget, but you are getting a brand new car. You will get a used car which is fairly new, in your budget.

Reasons why I suggested the Freelander 2 -

1) Safety and comfort is good
2) Handling and ride is great, so it will be awesome in the city
3) Land Rovers are known for their off road ability
4) Reliability is good as far as I have heard
5) Since, its a new car, no hassles in ownership
6) No issues with spares
7) Its a less visible brand, as per your requirement

Yes, you will have to sacrifice the third row seats. Freelander is a 5 seater with a HUGE boot.

That said, the XC90 is an amazing vehicle. But just felt that the LR maybe better for roads which are less traveled in.

[fre2bpowerless]

You've done your research, diesel would be the best bet. XC's lose half or more value in 2 years from the dealer ads that I've seen. Makes for great value.

That kinda money will also buy you pre-owned X5/Q7/ML. There's a '10 ML going for 34 in Mumbai, price ref. The Germans provide you better service support.

Adulterated fuel isn't good for any car. You gotta work around that even in an Mahindra.


In 32l, You could get an XUV & a full option i20 to use in the city and still save some.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by RohitReno9

My question then:
A. Is the Volvo XC90 3.2 D5 a bad/ less than ideal choice? Why?
B. What alternatives exist to the XC90 that broadly meet my needs?

I don't have experience with XC90 but I know Volvo makes safe, well engineered vehicles. Service network (they dont even have a dealership yet in Bangalore)and price/availability of parts could be an issue.
Montero (new shape) could be an alternative.

[inwester]

Originally Posted by RohitReno9

# high, high reliability
# a further 5-7 years of low hassle ownership, running max 20,000 kms per year
# fair running costs, i.e. availability of parts and service at *affordable* cost

This is an old car in its 10th year and due for a replacement soon (in 2014). On the contrary, this also means they might have fixed all the issues over the course of years. It's a good car in terms of design and interior space. However, many transmission failures were reported in USA and XC90 is not really considered a reliable vehicle. Service and parts could be a problem down the years and will be expensive.

Considering the last three points you mentioned, my vote is for a Toyota Fortuner 4x2 AT (or a MT 4x4 if you want a bit of off-roading).

[ashis89]

I would suggest you to go in for the Fortuner/Pajero Sport/used Montero(used Montero being the first choice). I feel the Montero being almost equally comfortable should be easier to service when you are out of town.

Going with your dad's idea, I would support him in a way. How about buying a sparingly used Pajero-old gen(its reliable due to lack of fancy gizmos and very comfortable too) or a used Fortuner and bank the spare cash?

[mayankjha1806]

I am wondering, with a budget of 25+ why are you overlooking a Fortuner. It would tick most of your boxes i.e.

1. 3 row seating - Yes
2. High safety, high comfort but not necessarily luxurious - Yes
3. Excellent city road manners and good bad road performance - Yes
4. Long distance touring comfort, particularly in the mid Himalaya and Rajasthan - Surely Yes
5. High, high reliability - All Toyota DNA, i.e Yes
   
6. A further 5-7 years of low hassle ownership - Yes
7. Fair running costs, i.e. availability of parts and service at *affordable* cost - Yes

Do let us know if Fortuner is not in the fray, and why? It would be interesting read.

[jyobeb]

I am looking at the XC90 too and my requirements are pretty much the same as yours!
The D5 engine is a 2.5l engine and not 3.2l, by the way.

[RohitReno9]

Thanks for all the inputs - much appreciated!

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Considering your requirements, dont buy the XUV.

Why dont you buy a brand new Land Rover Freelander 2?
---
Yes, you will have to sacrifice the third row seats. Freelander is a 5 seater with a HUGE boot.

Boot is appreciated, but I do need the 3rd row. It's a peculiar reason - we need seating for 4 in the family (I usually drive) and an employed driver as back-up/fall back.

Originally Posted by fre2bpowerless

You've done your research, diesel would be the best bet. XC's lose half or more value in 2 years from the dealer ads that I've seen. Makes for great value.

That's the attraction! - I remember a great post by GTO (see http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/buying...-used-car.html) arguing for pre-owned buys; my sense is that corporate and/or vain buys of imports create good value for those who know their cars and don't mind a slightly worn piece.

Originally Posted by fre2bpowerless

That kinda money will also buy you pre-owned X5/Q7/ML. There's a '10 ML going for 34 in Mumbai, price ref.

Any idea what a fair price for a 2011 XC90 D5 with 30,000 kms on the clock is? Estimates are tough I guess, given low volumes, but perhaps you have a sense?

Originally Posted by fre2bpowerless

In 32l, You could get an XUV & a full option i20 to use in the city and still save some.

Nice, except I like neither the XUV or the i20! Also, the house currently has a Vectra (remember those?!) and an SX4, with a Skoda Superb under active consideration.

Originally Posted by Guna

I don't have experience with XC90 but I know Volvo makes safe, well engineered vehicles. Service network (they dont even have a dealership yet in Bangalore)and price/availability of parts could be an issue.
Montero (new shape) could be an alternative.

Originally Posted by ashis89

I would suggest you to go in for the Fortuner/Pajero Sport/used Montero(used Montero being the first choice). I feel the Montero being almost equally comfortable should be easier to service when you are out of town.

Will check out the Montero, but is it 3 row? I quite like the styling and I guess Mitsu is rock-solid build now (they had a lot of troubles 10 yrs back with their Galants and others, admitting to systemic defect cover ups). Any view on the long term viability of Mitsu in India, given the HM connection?

Originally Posted by ashis89

Going with your dad's idea, I would support him in a way. How about buying a sparingly used Pajero-old gen(its reliable due to lack of fancy gizmos and very comfortable too) or a used Fortuner and bank the spare cash?

Originally Posted by inwester

Considering the last three points you mentioned, my vote is for a Toyota Fortuner 4x2 AT (or a MT 4x4 if you want a bit of off-roading).

Originally Posted by mayankjha1806

I am wondering, with a budget of 25+ why are you overlooking a Fortuner. It would tick most of your boxes i.e.

1. 3 row seating - Yes
2. High safety, high comfort but not necessarily luxurious - Yes
3. Excellent city road manners and good bad road performance - Yes
4. Long distance touring comfort, particularly in the mid Himalaya and Rajasthan - Surely Yes
5. High, high reliability - All Toyota DNA, i.e Yes
   
6. A further 5-7 years of low hassle ownership - Yes
7. Fair running costs, i.e. availability of parts and service at *affordable* cost - Yes

Do let us know if Fortuner is not in the fray, and why? It would be interesting read.

In a word - mere subjectivity (actually two words). I just don't like the looks, and I have to say I seem to have an ancient bias towards European design. That of course is not to argue that the XC90 is wow - far from it - but I do find it's lines clean and the interior very well put together (substantially better so than the Fortuner). Also, in a drive I took recently, I found the Fortuner much harsher on city roads that the Volvo. Views on this welcome, since I haven't done a *test*. The points on the ticking of boxes are all extremely valid, particularly so on reliability. I will now consider the Fortuner.
Aside - A friend and I went up to Gangotri in his old top-speced Qualis (100,000 clicks on the clock), and that vehicle seemed very capable, with T-reliability visible.

Originally Posted by inwester

This is an old car in its 10th year and due for a replacement soon (in 2014). On the contrary, this also means they might have fixed all the issues over the course of years. It's a good car in terms of design and interior space. However, many transmission failures were reported in USA and XC90 is not really considered a reliable vehicle. Service and parts could be a problem down the years and will be expensive.

Niggles, some very serious such as low reliability on the transmission, are well documented in the US forums (see Volvo XC SUV And Crossover Forums) but appear to be well and truly behind this vehicle post 2008 or 2009. Your point on the XC90 now being a mature product is an excellent one, and one I subscribe to (I tend to avoid new models). Also, the US market had the petrol motors (3.2l, T6 and V8-curiously Yamaha sourced), which seem to be more failure prone when mated to the non-Haldex AWD system of the time. I also read - believe it or not - that it was considered best to replace all four tyres even if just one had failed, to help keep the non-Haldex unit at its full life!
Parts (availability and cost) are real issues, but Volvo may be expanding in India, rather than retreating. Installed base of diesel XC90s in Scandinavia, Germany and Russia is very high (snowy conditions being one common characteristic), so parts should be available for the time horizon I have in mind.

Originally Posted by jyobeb

I am looking at the XC90 too and my requirements are pretty much the same as yours!
The D5 engine is a 2.5l engine and not 3.2l, by the way.

Excellent, that makes a grand total of two interested buyers - talk about rare! You're right of course on the D5 being a 2.5l (twin turbo I believe, replacing a 2.4l older motor). The 3.2l is a petrol as you no doubt know. Do you have a preference between the two? If so, why?
btw, I have read that older XC90s, i.e. pre Haldex AWD unit, were significantly less reliable than the Haldex ones. You might want to keep that in mind, if you're thinking of an older 2 row XC90. I am unsure if there is any meaningful reliability difference between the petrols and diesels, if both were Haldex AWD. I don't think the non-AWDs (i.e. FWD) were ever sold in India.
Also, is there any Volvo service presence where you are? Does that influence your choice?

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by RohitReno9

Will check out the Montero, but is it 3 row? I quite like the styling and I guess Mitsu is rock-solid build now (they had a lot of troubles 10 yrs back with their Galants and others, admitting to systemic defect cover ups). Any view on the long term viability of Mitsu in India, given the HM connection?

Mitsubishi seems to be in the market for a long run and won't withdraw anytime soon(they recenly launched the Pajero Sport).

Also Montero has a 3rd row, though I don't know its comfort level. New Monteros depreciate real fast since a new Montero is over-priced IMO. So you can grab a decent sample for 18-22L INR. Do check it out among others.

[fre2bpowerless]

Originally Posted by RohitReno9

Any idea what a fair price for a 2011 XC90 D5 with 30,000 kms on the clock is? Estimates are tough I guess, given low volumes, but perhaps you have a sense?

10 down from ex-showroom would be the 'fair' price but bargain hard coz there aren't (m)any takers.

Check CarWale, there are two ads for XC90.

[RohitReno9]

While I was not able to close in on a pre-owned XC90, I decided on the S60, as I was separately in the market for a sedan.

I got the D3 variant, in copper with the beechwood/black interiors. I mention that since the colour (in and out) swung it for me. Very happy with the vehicle so far.

Thanks for all the help on this thread, and I hope to return to it, since I'm still looking for a 3 row/7 seater distance tourer.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by RohitReno9

I got the D3 variant, in copper with the beechwood/black interiors. I mention that since the colour (in and out) swung it for me. Very happy with the vehicle so far.

Thanks for all the help on this thread, and I hope to return to it, since I'm still looking for a 3 row/7 seater distance tourer.

Well first of all congrats. Secondly what about posting some pics and an ownership thread of your new ride. As such there are very few Volvos on the Forum. A thread would be much appreciated.

[SedatedDrive]

Buy an XUV500 and invest the remaining cash to pay for fuel and maintenance for the next 5-10 years. Currently the situation of the Indian car industry is volatile but M&M seems to be resilient.

Yes your father is wise and prudent.

[Abhas]

Originally Posted by RohitReno9

I got the D3 variant, in copper with the beechwood/black interiors. I mention that since the colour (in and out) swung it for me. Very happy with the vehicle so far.

That is exactly the colour and interiors i have my heart set on for the S60 D3.
Awaiting your review and some pictures !