[PA_86]

Hello to all the admin's and members,

Note: Long thread.

This is my first post in this forum and I would like to share my experience of getting the CB650R home and the after sale service.

Dealership:

Honda topline Andheri, Mumbai.

Booking:

I went to the showroom on 2nd Sep'22 to get the on-road price of the CB650R, I was given a quotation on 8.67L being the ex-showroom price. I asked the salesperson if he was sure that the ex-showroom price was 8.67L because I had checked the website and it showed 9.14L.The salesperson was clueless about the change in the ex-showroom price and told me that he could check with the manager and confirm. He came back saying, yes sir the prices have been revised. What surprised me the most was the fact that the sales staff was not updated/aware of the change in the ex-showroom price of the vehicles they were selling. I booked the bile on the same day.

Payment and delivery:

I was informed that the bike had arrived at the showroom and I made the balance payment (on road price + 31k for accessories - Radiator Guard / Front spools / rear spools and Crash bobbins) of the bike on 02nd Oct 2022 and informed the sales person that I wanted the delivery of the bike on 17th of October. The salesman informed me that there was enough time for completing the registration process and it wouldn't be an issue to deliver the bike on 17th Oct'22. After receiving the payment there was no communication from the salesperson at all.

I got the choice number on 03rd Oct'22 and shared the details with the salesperson on the same day. I walked in the showroom on the 15th Oct
to check that everything was in order for the delivery. To my surprise the salesman told me very casually that there was an issue with the registration online due to a different number on my adhaar card (Father's number). What surprised me the most was that the salesman was very casual after the payment was made and he didn't bother to communicate about the issue. Thankfully I didn't get embarrassed in front of my family and friends had I walked into the showroom on 17th Oct to get the delivery.

I get back home from the showroom and raise a complaint about the careless attitude and no communication from the sales team regarding the issue with the registration and delivery. To my surprise the sales person called me the same evening and asked, Sir , what is the issue? Why have you raised a complaint? I failed to understand the escalation matrix of Honda bigwing, the person against who the complaint was raised is calling me back to ask me about the issue. With the complaint not being escalated to the right person, I tried to contact Mr Rajagopi Padmanaban on linkedin. Mr Venkatramanan Janak got in touch with me via linkedin and I shared my experience over a call. He got in touch with the dealership to ensure that the delivery would be
a memorable experience.

Delivery:

The registration issue was sorted and I decided to take the delivery on the 23rd Oct'22. After the complaint, the delivery was a mere formality. The saree guard was removed from the bike without my consent and the justification I got was that 80% of the buyers got it removed. No welcome kit (Mug and keychain) was provided saying that it was out of stock, and I haven't received it till date. The documents for the extended warranty and the RSA were provided on whatsapp after a week of delivery. Only the radiator guard and the front spools were installed at the time of delivery and I was told that the spares are out of stock and might take upto a month.

Service:

I got the first service done at 700 kms in mid November, that is when the rear spools and the crash bobbins along with the saree guard were installed on the bike.

Current Brake Disc Issue:

A strange noise was coming from the bike on the 14th of Jan'23. I took the bike at the service center on the 15th to get the issue checked. After the technician inspected and removed the rear brake pad, it was observed that the disc was rubbing against the brake arm and was bent (images attached for reference). Since the service center manager was on leave, I went to the service center on 16th Jan again to speak to the manager about the issue. Mr Frank informed me that he checked the bike and there was no visible impact on the bike for the rear disc to bend that way. A report was submitted to the technical team to get the issue resolved under warranty. The technical team rejected the HTR claim and I was informed by the manager that he would get the replacement done under goodwill warranty. It's been 17 days since the bike is at the service center and they are awaiting internal approval.

The bike has just done 1152 kms on the odometer and I am wondering if a root cause analysis would be done to identify what caused the rear disc to bend in such a way.

I received a call from the service center manager stating that the technical team has rejected the claim however from the dealer side we have decided to give you a 50% discount on the parts and labor charges. I am wondering why should I even pay 50% with no fault of mine.

I would really appreciate if senior members would guide me with the way forward.

[abhi_tjet]

Originally Posted by PA_86

Current issue: A strange noise was coming from the bike on the 14th of Jan'23.
............
from the dealer side we have decided to give you a 50% discount on the parts and labor charges. I am wondering why should I even pay 50% with no fault of mine. .......................
I would really appreciate if senior members would guide me with the way forward.

Hey buddy! Felt sad reading your ordeal.

Couple of points from my side -
1. What are they replacing? Are they just putting the new brake disc or some straightening of brake arm is also needed. If its just disc, I don't think it will cost much, they are anyways agreeing on waving 50%, just get it done with and enjoy the bike.

2. Since you have ridden bike for initial 1K kms without any problem, I suppose its not a factory issue and hence no warranty.

Looks like you are just unlucky and unfortunately you will have to proceed with what dealer is saying IMO.

[Rehaan]

Thanks for sharing, PA_86!

In this particular case, a warped brake disc could very well be a manufacturing defect due to poor quality of materials used in the part. Given the amount of heating & cooling cycles that a brake disc goes through, it would be a good candidate for early failure if it wasn't up to spec. I'm frankly amazed that Honda rejected this warranty claim, especially on a virtually new bike even after the manager confirmed there's no visible impact.


Moving your post out to a new thread so as to inform others of this possible issue. A new thread means 100X the views & 100X the visibility in search engines, including Google .

@ BHPians, if you should spot any good post in an existing thread that deserves its own new thread, please report the post and we'll move it out for greater visibility.

Thank you.

[SnS_12]

How is the wear on the rare brake pads? Did you feel the rear wheel not rotating freely while moving it out after being parked or while riding before you noticed this sound?

Could it be possible the service centre guy hit the disc by mistake while trying to put or remove the rear axle when you went in for your first service?

[shree_shell]

This is unfortunate and so un-Honda given that the bike has just over 600 miles!

That said, floating rotors are exceptionally better in managing heat than fixed/ solid rotors like ones on your CBR. Given this, if rider was indeed responsible for this warping, it should be due to:

1. Going through heating and cooling of rotors very quickly
2. Holding onto your rear brake too long, when disks are hot
3. When the rear brakes take a direct hit

I also think this is a potential quality-control issue.

[ads295]

As another tBHP member mentioned, if the brake arm is misaligned then even the next disc rotor could bend.
I suggest you skim this rotor to make it run true, use it for a while, and see if it bends again. Your bike is brand new so I'm sure there's plenty of room for skimming.
Don't go for the part replacement, I'm pretty sure this rotor can be used hereon.

[crdi]

Could be a manufacturing defect or could be a hit. Could be a parking space mishap like a blunt force from another bike's front tyre. Whatever it could be, don't compromise on the integrity of such a critical part on a high performance machine. It is not a regular commuter bike. I'd suggest to change the disc. Go for the 50% offer if warranty isn't working out.

It is a new bike, the part probably belongs to the wear & tear items listed in the warranty clause and some companies can be very anal about it.

[PA_86]

Thank you admin for moving this as a separate thread.

The worst part from Honda is that they closed the complaint without any information provided to me and also said that there has been external tampering.

Why would I tamper my brand new bike after spending my hard earned money to fulfil the superbike dream. I sent them an email stating - I fail to understand why a root cause analysis is not being done in this case. The service center manager checked the bike and mentioned that there are no signs of external impact. Had the brake got jammed during a ride, it would have been fatal.

I expected the Honda technical team to provide a proper update but they have chosen a easy way out by saying that an external impact has caused this issue and closed the complaint.

I got the bike fixed yesterday, had to pay 50% for the spares (Rs 1750) and labor charges were waved off by the dealer. I am scared that this doesn't happen again.

A ex-Honda technician who now works at BMW helped me with the email id's of a few people and the PR team at Honda.

Originally Posted by SnS_12

How is the wear on the rare brake pads? Did you feel the rear wheel not rotating freely while moving it out after being parked or while riding before you noticed this sound?

The brake pads had scratch like marks which was smoothened out with a sand paper.

Could it be possible the service centre guy hit the disc by mistake while trying to put or remove the rear axle when you went in for your first service?

It is not possible for the disc to have a uniform arch like shape with a single hit. The disc has been rubbing against the brake arm which caused the bend.

[VijayAnand1]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Thanks for sharing, PA_86!
In this particular case, a warped brake disc could very well be a manufacturing defect due to poor quality of materials used in the part.

Not really Rehaan, here's why...

Originally Posted by PA_86

Hello to all the admin's and members,

Note: Long thread.

This is my first post in this forum and I would like to share my experience of getting the CB650R home and the after sale service.

Now that you've sorted the issue.

Brake discs warp primarily due to two factors, excessive heat coupled with constantly grazed rear brake pedal (unknowingly) which would superheat the rotor and given the wrong circumstances can warp.. Fast forward 4 months into your ownership, now that you're facing this issue, it can perhaps be your riding style, where you were unknowingly resting your foot on the rear brake versus the foot peg which eventually might have overheated the rotor and hence a warp, technically.

Now, aanother reason could be a combination of heat plus misalignment of your rear wheel during a service. When the rear wheel is misaligned the rotor for a rough idea, turns from this [ normal " | " ] to warped this [ " / " or " \ "]. With power being sent to rear wheels already stressing the rear wheel, all these factors coupled with bad foot position, heat and misalignment can and will warp a rotor and cause glazing on the rotor and "angled one side" pad wear which is a prime indicator that a rotor has warped.

Usually a front warped rotor manifests itself as mild yaw on the bars which usually can be diagnosed faster. With the rear wheel, it's comparatively difficult to diagnose unless the issue has calcified enough to let itself know.

The reason you were rejected warranty is, as per my understading, brake comps, rotors, chain sprocket, tires usually aren't covered under warranty. These parts are deemed "wear and tear" parts and covering them under warranty is a tough nut to crack, unless there's an inherent manufacturing defect reported in the initial days of ownership.

I'll stop it here, and wish you good luck in the future.

Cheers!
VJ

[rajeevsulu]

Uff, that is sad! As said by VijayAnand 1 ,all these components go under wear and tear category. Even then 1000 kms is too little mileage done. Refusing warranty would have hurt. It is done and dusted. Enjoy your bike, brother.

[PA_86]

Thank you for the technical explanation VJ.

I have been riding a motorbike since 14 years, I would definitely not put my foot on the rear brake and ride the motorcycle.

I did get the rear spools installed on the bike during the first service done at 700 kms. Just wanted to know if there could be a possibility of misalignment at that time, would it take 400 odd kms for the disc brake to start rubbing against the brake arm?

[PetaWatt]

Originally Posted by PA_86

Thank you for the technical explanation VJ.

I did get the rear spools installed on the bike during the first service done at 700 kms. Just wanted to know if there could be a possibility of misalignment at that time, would it take 400 odd kms for the disc brake to start rubbing against the brake arm?

I do the chain cleaning and adjustment myself on my 2022 CBR650R. I saw the rear pool installed in the photo you shared and I can see it has covered the measurement marks completely. I use these measurement marks on both swing arm to align the wheel. It appears in your case, whoever installed the pool, didn’t align the wheel (actually, could not align without those scale marks visible). And disk must have started rubbing against the caliper assembly, and during any long ride generated heat along with little force on the disk could have deformed it.

Why I do it myself? Because Honda Bigwing Premium service centre messed my motorcycle in the first service itself. Now, I go to them for schedule service just to keep the warranty valid.

[PA_86]

Originally Posted by PetaWatt

I do the chain cleaning and adjustment myself on my 2022 CBR650R. I saw the rear pool installed in the photo you shared and I can see it has covered the measurement marks completely. I use these measurement marks on both swing arm to align the wheel. It appears in your case, whoever installed the pool, didn’t align the wheel (actually, could not align without those scale marks visible). And disk must have started rubbing against the caliper assembly, and during any long ride generated heat along with little force on the disk could have deformed it.

Why I do it myself? Because Honda Bigwing Premium service centre messed my motorcycle in the first service itself. Now, I go to them for schedule service just to keep the warranty valid.

I thought that the team in Bangalore/ Bengaluru is much better. May I know what happened with your bike during the first service?

[PetaWatt]

Originally Posted by PA_86

May I know what happened with your bike during the first service?

Went for the first service




Came back in the noon and parked. Saw leaked oil in the evening







Went back to the service center very next day. It is around 27kms from my home




Initially I thought the guy who did the post service test ride must have hit some speed breaker or might be oil filter was not properly installed.

After panels were removed at the service center, I noticed the oil spill pattern inside fairing indicating oil was spilled while draining the oil on the previous day. Could not find any leakage in the oil filter or any crack on the engine. The panels are attached so tight together, spilled oil took more than 5 hours to leak and drop on my parking floor.

I lost 1 night sleep and faith in Honda. Now I stand in front of motorcycle while it is being serviced.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by PA_86

Just wanted to know if there could be a possibility of misalignment at that time, would it take 400 odd kms for the disc brake to start rubbing against the brake arm?

The rotor would not touch the brake arm even after running forever. Could it be that the rotor was installed inside out when you got the spools installed at 700kms? When you get the new rotors, take a look at what is inside and what is outside. From the worn out part it should be clear if it was installed incorrectly after the 700 mile service.
Someone I know had hit a pothole at speed on a brand new CBR, and caused the rotor to rub against the brake pads. But, it would be hard to rub against the arm 360 degrees uniformly like yours.

Originally Posted by PetaWatt

After panels were removed at the service center, I noticed the oil spill pattern inside fairing indicating oil was spilled while draining the oil on the previous day. Could not find any leakage in the oil filter or any crack on the engine. The panels are attached so tight together, spilled oil took more than 5 hours to leak and drop on my parking floor.
I lost 1 night sleep and faith in Honda. Now I stand in front of motorcycle while it is being serviced.

I have done my own servicing on my Hondas for decades. I have always tightened the oil filter by hand, I have never seen a drop of oil on the garage floor. I have faux wooden flooring, any drop would be clearly visible. If things are done right, such things would never happen. Often the service center guys over tighten, and strip the thread causing leaks, and bigger issues. I would use an oil pan, drain the oil, and check to see how much oil has been lost, check if the threads of the drain bolt is intact, and check if the filter has been installed correctly. this is shoddy work by labor that is short on skill.