[kosjam]

So I have a dilemma. I'm in the market for one of two choices, the Honda Africa Twin and the BMW GS 850.

I have test driven the Honda AT and was very happy with the performance of the Honda with its silky smooth engine and liner power delivery, which enabled me to chug right along at 40 kmph even in 6th gear. Had it been the only bike in contention, I would have put money down then and there. But then, when is choice ever that simple?
The BMW GS850 has not been launched yet, but with the launch imminent, I am wondering which one would be ideal for me.

While the displacement figures or the power figures do not match, what does match is my preference for an Adv tourer and the budget for either of the two.

Most of the riding will be highway riding, but a not so insignificant portion of the rides will be to the mountains and consequently, bad roads. And no bike trip is ever complete without passing through dense traffic, whether in a large city or a small town.

Do I go in for the Honda or the BMW? All pros and cons below are only as compared to each other, not the general market. As the 2022 BMW hasn't been launched in India yet, the points are basis online reviews and specification sheets.




Honda Pros:
1. Brilliant Machine all round.
2. Balanced, linear power delivery, power on tap in every gear.
3. Comfortable seating, good ergonomics for long distance biking.
4. Maintenance costs will be lower compared to the BMW.
5. Both feet reach the ground, can flat foot, which is great for travelling to areas with bad roads, plus improved rideability in heavy traffic

Honda Cons:
1. While a highly reliable brand, brand value of BMW is higher.
2. Looks are subjective and while I do like the AT, the GS looks better IMO.






BMW Pros:
1. Its a BMW, electronics should be at par with the Honda.
2. Balanced, liner power delivery, power on tap in every gear. (Presuming to be at par with Honda)
3. Comfortable seating, good ergonomics for long distance biking.
4. Brand visibility is much much higher than the Honda.
5. It looks better than the Honda.

BMW Cons:
1. Maintenance costs will be higher than the Honda.
2. The seat height is more than the Honda,(860mm vs 830mm) this is a major Negative for me, I am 5'7" and being able to put both feet firmly on the ground is important for bad/no roads due to the weight of the bikes in question. I sold my previous bike due to this as one of the reasons, the V-Strom 650.

I know there are after market kits for lowering the bike, plus lower seats, which actually reduce the foam in the seat, making them less cushioned. But I don't know how effective either of these solutions are.
Being a salaried person, I cannot take the risk of buying one and having to sell it due to not being able to adjust later. The honda is a safe bet, tried and tested, wonderful mechanical machine, but what I really prefer is the BMW.

Any insights?

[no_fear]

Get the Honda. The BMW launch date is April 2022 (tentative). If you have not paid a deposit on the BMW - account for another 2 -3 months before you can get one. That's pretty much the rainy season and little to no riding, if you are based in Mumbai.

With seat height also a factor, I would not recommend trying out aftermarket kits. Knowing how unscrupulous dealers are, they will try to void your warranty using this as a pretext.

[Ajay_the_Don]

Generally, Germans are known for their precision while Japanese are known for their reliability.

The BMW has its moat while the Honda appears like a wannabe BMW.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by kosjam

I know there are after market kits for lowering the bike, plus lower seats, which actually reduce the foam in the seat, making them less cushioned. But I don't know how effective either of these solutions are.
Being a salaried person, I cannot take the risk of buying one and having to sell it due to not being able to adjust later.

Kosjam, I havent really followed the GS850 in recent times but from what I have read on international forums and seen on youtube, the Africa Twin is probably the better all round motorcycle. That is because you are cross shopping between segments. To me, the part in bold above comprehensively seals the deal for the Africa Twin. It makes no sense to buy the BMW, install all these additional parts and then realize that you are unable to ride the bike comfortably. Service quality wise (pan India), Honda has the edge over BMW.

TBHPians GoBlue and Added_flavor both own the new Africa Twin and can help you with any specific queries on the Honda.

[Ferruccio]

I have worked with 2 German brands, 2 Japanese brands and now 3 Indian brands - all 4 wheelers. But I believe the learnings translate to 2 wheelers. If my life depends on it, I will always go with the Japanese product. I believe with this category of bikes, your life may well depend on it - so look nowhere beyond the Africa Twin.

[Axe77]

I am generally inclined to say ride both and see which one you prefer but on this, I would say the Honda Africa Twin any day.

When it comes to the 1200/1250 cc segment, I'd say the BMW 1250 rules the roost. But if I were in the 800-900 cc segment market (and I'm taking the liberty to include the Honda in this, given its power figures are closer to these bikes than the papa GS), I would say the Tiger Rally Pro and the Honda Africa Twin are the key shortlist bikes to consider. Personally, I would not even have the 850 GS on my shortlist.

A few specific advantages:

# Cheaper to maintain;
# In my subjective opinion, nicer to ride;
# I feel in the world of ADV superbikes, Honda, Triumph and BMW have comparable brand value (yes BMW may have an edge but the Africa Twin and Tiger have very strong brand equity in themselves too - in no way do I consider them inferior even in brand value terms). In any event, that should not matter.
# Reach to ground as you mentioned is preferable for you given your height - although personally I feel you'll be fine on either.

Follow the Africa Twin Official page on insta - the way those guys present that bike you'll be in love with the looks in no time.

[kosjam]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Kosjam, I havent really followed the GS850 in recent times but from what I have read on international forums and seen on Youtube, the Africa Twin is probably the better all round motorcycle. That is because you are cross shopping between segments. To me, the part in bold above comprehensively seals the deal for the Africa Twin. It makes no sense to buy the BMW, install all these additional parts and then realize that you are unable to ride the bike comfortably. Service quality wise (pan India), Honda has the edge over BMW.

TBHPians GoBlue and Added_flavor both own the new Africa Twin and can help you with any specific queries on the Honda.

I completely agree with your points and in a logical argument they mirror what I have in my mind as well. The only issue is that this is not a rational purchase. Nobody purchases an 18 lakh motorcycle for commuting. A little bit of heart over mind issue does happen. My last motorcycle was the very reliable very efficient Suzuki V-strom 650, which won over the versys650 due to the same rational logical argument, and I ended up selling the bike 2 years after buying it, simply because, dil nahi lag raha tha (didn't appeal to the heart).

While I will definitely consult the two gentlemen you quoted, there is no doubt in my mind about the Honda on the bulletproof nature of the bike, its just that in this particular case, should the heart be given some leeway in decision making?

Regarding the parts, they will only be installed (suspension lowering kit etc) if offered originally by BMW. I am not interested in modifications just for the heck of it. And in case the height is an issue, the purchase of the bike would be conditional to getting those parts at the get go, and even during test drive phase...

But thank you for your views. It does make the Honda's case even more favourable.

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by kosjam

So I have a dilemma. I'm in the market for one of two choices, the Honda Africa Twin and the BMW GS 850.


Any insights?

Hands down the Africa Twin and not just because I own one. I'll tell you my reasons.

1. Low Seat height is a boon, especially for those of us in the "Indian standard height" category. AT's seat height in the lower seat setting is 810mm. I am also ~5'7" and trust me this is a boon. I'll vouch for this, especially after my recent Spiti ride where I felt very confident riding through some of the toughest terrains I've ever ridden on.

2. Electronics - While most features b/w the 2 are on par, the Honda goes one-up with the support for Android Auto/Apple Carplay. The convenience of using the big screen for navigation without having to take your eyes off the road is understated. On a side note, yes the switchgear is a little crowded and unintuitive to use in the beginning. But once you understand the functionalities, it's good to use.

3. After-sales service cost & experience - While you've rightly pointed out that the service costs will be lower, the service experience also is better with Honda. While I say this with my experience predominantly in Bangalore, I've seen generally happy owners in the Pan India AT group. The Tusker BMW service center in Bangalore is cramped, has no transparency and is a joke for such a big brand honestly.

Finally, keeping all these things aside, IMO the ATAS 1100 is simply a better bike compared to the 850GS in every way. If you bring the GS1250 into the equation, the decision might get tougher.

[navin_v8]

:

Originally Posted by kosjam

The honda is a safe bet, tried and tested, wonderful mechanical machine, but what I really prefer is the BMW.

Mate, sincerely I feel your heart is set on the Beemer while head is saying Africa Twin. If you are spending so much why not rent both the bikes for a day or take an extended test ride to take a decision. Still if you are not able to make a decision then you know whom to listen to (so that you don't repeat dil nahi lag raha tha ).

Given the reason why you sold the Suzuki Vstrom it makes sense to consider the Africa Twin due to its lower seat height in its stock form.

Meanwhile I am wondering as to what has happened to KTM and why they are not considering offering their world class ADV's in India. The more choices the merrier. If you are not going to do hardcore off-roading often, then there is another option to consider, the Kawasaki Versys 1000 (detuned engine from Ninja 1000 to improve torque and tractability). There are very few dual-purpose motorcycles with an inline 4 engine.

[Raghu M]

Honda any day for me. Not specific to this requirement, I would prefer Honda as it is the most reliable brand. The BMW will manage some raised eyebrows when you ride past them but if you want peace of mind, I guess it should be Honda (maintenance being the biggest factor for me).

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by kosjam

So I have a dilemma. I'm in the market for one of two choices, the Honda Africa Twin and the BMW GS 850.

I have test driven the Honda AT..
...
Most of the riding will be highway riding, but a not so insignificant portion of the rides will be to the mountains and consequently, bad roads. And no bike trip is ever complete without passing through dense traffic, whether in a large city or a small town.
...
Do I go in for the Honda or the BMW? All pros and cons below are only as compared to each other, not the general market. As the 2022 BMW hasn't been launched in India yet, the points are basis online reviews and specification sheets.

Honda Cons:
1. While a highly reliable brand, brand value of BMW is higher.
2. Looks are subjective and while I do like the AT, the GS looks better IMO.


BMW Cons:
1. Maintenance costs will be higher than the Honda.
2. The seat height is more than the Honda,(860mm vs 830mm) this is a major Negative for me, I am 5'7" and being able to put both feet firmly on the ground is important for bad/no roads due to the weight of the bikes in question. I sold my previous bike due to this as one of the reasons, the V-Strom 650.

Being a salaried person, I cannot take the risk of buying one and having to sell it due to not being able to adjust later. The honda is a safe bet, tried and tested, wonderful mechanical machine, but what I really prefer is the BMW.

Any insights?

I truly appreciate the focus of your bike shortlist, that indicates that you know exactly what your use-case is and you've homed on to two of the better motorcycles that do an EQUALLY fine job of what you're looking for.

Please let me know which trim of the ATAS (Africa Twin Adventure Sports) you took a test-ride of, the DCT or the MT. That would help to share relevant perspective.

As a 2021 ATAS MT owner, let me begin by adding objectivity to the conversation by sharing some aspects of the Africa Twin vs. the 850 GS as well as the 1250 GS. These are objective comparisons, and whether these are advantages are up to an individual to decide based on THEIR preferences:

1. Engine | 1100cc parallel twin:
- It's character is more like a V-Twin, but it feels extremely refined (unlike a V-Twin)
- It's not really comparable with the 850GS as there's no replacement for displacement, litre class is litre class. Having said that, the 850 GS has sufficient punch and should not disappoint (have ridden the 850GS).
- Having ridden the 1250GS recently, I have found the power delivery to be similar to the 1250 GS.

2. Chassis Setup | 21" Front / 18 " Rear:
- The 850 GS gets a 21 F / 17 R setup
- The 1250 GS gets a 19 F / 17 R setup
- There's a clear advantage of having a 19/17 setup for on-tarmac touring, as it results in better handling in the ghat sections (1250 GS has an advantage here, over the 850GS as well as ATAS)
- When it comes to a 21" Front however, I personally prefer the 18" Rear setup of the ATAS. Not only is it way better when the tarmac ends, even on tarmac it gives much better feel/stability (especially with full panniers, a top-box and a pillion seated - worst case load scenario for chassis performance).

3. Suspension | 45 mm Showa USD forks / Showa rear:
- ATAS gets full adjustability at the front as well as rear: compression, rebound and spring-preload
- 850GS gets 43mm forks without any adjustment at the front, only re-bound/pre-load at the rear
- The suspension plushness of the ATAS is premium. In addition, one can setup the front suspension for individual rider weight (sag). Having full re-bound/compression damping adjustment increases one's options to tweak the behaviour as per one's needs.
- 45mm vs 43 mm is not really an objective comparison, the ATAS is a much larger/more powerful bike than the 850GS, thereby resulting in different spec suspension being chosen by design (this by itself, doesn't mean anything)
- The 1250 GS gets a much better suspension system than the ATAS, the 850GS is under-equipped (considering what you pay for the 850GS that is, in isolation the 850GS is fine for someone who may not wish to adjust the suspension ever)

4. Electronics:
- This is where the ATAS is superbly well equipped (probably better than the 1250 GS)
- Full touchscreen TFT. I'd felt that this would be a gimmick, but after having used it for an year, the luxury of navigating directly with the gloves on is such a premium feeling.
- The clarity/resolution/size of this TFT is slightly better than that of the standard BMW TFTs. The layout too, I prefer that of the ATAS. UX is again a subjective thing, there may be difference of perspectives.
- 4 Level engine braking, 7 Level traction control, 3 Level wheelie control, 6 Riding modes (using an IMU)
- Wired Apple CarPlay / Android Auto (can be converted to Wireless using a WiFi dongle)
- Connectivity with a Bluetooth headset like Sena AND the phone (at the same time)
- The sheer number of features this combination offers is mindboggling. The best of which is the ability to use full-screen Google Maps on the main TFT, with navigation instructions being heard via Sena. Any Music app can be played on the Apple CarPlay and controlled via the switchgear. Phone calling control can be done via the switchgear, no need to take the hand off the handle-bar to use the Sena buttons. The list is exhaustive.
- Recently the HexEZCAN has come out for the ATAS (similar to the 1250GS), which can enable aux light/horn control using the switchgear. Thanks to BHPian Added_flavor for having shared this insight.
- ATAS shows Diagnostic Error codes / their interpretation directly on the TFT (no need to connect a Diagnostic Device to see if there are any error codes which have sprung up).
- There's a separate secondary screen to show basic information when the TFT is being used in Apple CarPlay mode.

5. Mass centralization / feel while riding:
- ATAS is extremely nimble at LOW SPEEDS, to me personally, it's mass centralization felt better than the 1250 GS.
- It has dual radiators which not only offer incredible cooling performance, also helps achieve better mass centralization.
- I ride the ATAS regularly in city traffic, it's as friendly to ride as any commuter bike.

6. Tank range & fuel requirement:
- 24.8L tank on the ATAS, have seen a range of 580 km after a tank-full
- It requires only 91 RON fuel with 10% Ethanol (read any bunk pan-India). there's no need to fill premium/higher-RON fuel.
- Honda has detuned the India-spec ATAS by 1-2 HP to ensure varying fuel quality doesn't affect the motorcycle in any way

7. Size and part quality:
- The ATAS looks bigger than even a 1250GS, comparable to a GS Adventure
- Thereby, it is a much bigger motorcycle in every which way than the 850GS. This may be a positive or a negative depending on an individual's perspective.
- It is a positive for me, because the wind-protection and comfort on offer is absolutely STELLAR
- As for the quality of all the parts, panels and switchgear - in my personal opinion, it is at-par with the 1250 GS (in some areas perhaps better).
- The seat height is 810 mm (adjustable to 830 mm)

8. Transmission options: DCT / MT (take your pick)

To sum it up, the Honda ATAS is in a segment of it's own. It is not trying to be a "wannabe" 1250 GS. It offers a lot more capability than an 850GS and also offers a different take compared to a 1250GS. Looks are subjective, I see no value in commenting.

The ATAS is Honda's flagship ADV bike, while the 850GS is not BMW's flagship (that would be the 1200 / 1250 GS). While spending this kind of money on a motorcycle, I'd personally always consider a brand's flagship, as that is the product line where the entire R&D investment has seen maximum focus.

Sharing some pictures for reference:





With BHPian Nitrogary's R1200 GS (such a lovely motorcycle)


The Apple CarPlay home screen


Google Maps in fullscreen navigation mode

[kosjam]

At the outset I am actually surprised to see such an overwhelming tilt towards the Honda AT, I was expecting it to be a more or less even split between opinions. I have one question to all, on an average day, what mileage does the Honda AT give, say while cruising at 100-110 kmph? I know, I might sound stingy, spending 19 big ones and then quibbling over a few hundred bucks, but dil hai hindustani

Originally Posted by Axe77

I am generally inclined to say ride both and see which one you prefer but on this, I would say the Honda Africa Twin any day.
When it comes to the 1200/1250 cc segment, I'd say the BMW 1250 rules the roost. But if I were in the 800-900 cc segment market (and I'm taking the liberty to include the Honda in this, given its power figures are closer to these bikes than the papa GS), I would say the Tiger Rally Pro and the Honda Africa Twin are the key shortlist bikes to consider. Personally, I would not even have the 850 GS on my shortlist.

Yes, I am waiting for the Beemer to be launched, the showroom told me it will happen in April 1st week, so fingers crossed. The Tiger was crossed off the list at a very early stage, I did not like its looks, nor did I like its engine power delivery. On top of that, the radiator fans direct all the hot air on my thighs, which was a definite no-no. And anyways, it was never a first choice, just to ensure I wasn't making a mistake.

I took a test drive of the Honda AT also just to ensure it didn't become a fixation to a single bike, I have been quite ambivalent to its looks. But when I got onto the bike, the whole experience blew me away to be very honest, and suddenly, the wildcard entry was a finalist!!!

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

Hands down the Africa Twin and not just because I own one. I'll tell you my reasons.

2. Electronics - While most features b/w the 2 are on par, the Honda goes one-up with the support for Android Auto/Apple Carplay. The convenience of using the big screen for navigation without having to take your eyes off the road is understated. On a side note, yes the switchgear is a little crowded and unintuitive to use in the beginning. But once you understand the functionalities, it's good to use.

Finally, keeping all these things aside, IMO the ATAS 1100 is simply a better bike compared to the 850GS in every way. If you bring the GS1250 into the equation, the decision might get tougher.

No, the GS1250 is not in my shortlist as it is simply not within my budget. Plus, i feel it is wayyy too bulky and being of average Indian height and build, I am worried it will be too top heavy for me to take to the mountains, which, after riding the Honda AT, made me feel quite confident of doing.
The 2022 Beemer too will have Apple Car play, but then i am a bit allergic to all things Apple, so the apple car play is of no use to me. Funny how BMW neglected to add android auto. Or maybe thats just for the international model and it may be included in India specific model. who knows...
Riders like you are the important ones, who will give me the right reasons, having one in your garage. So thanks for that. really appreciate it.

Originally Posted by navin_v8

:
Mate, sincerely I feel your heart is set on the Beemer while head is saying Africa Twin. If you are spending so much why not rent both the bikes for a day or take an extended test ride to take a decision. Still if you are not able to make a decision then you know whom to listen to (so that you don't repeat dil nahi lag raha tha ).
The more choices the merrier. the Kawasaki Versys 1000 (detuned engine from Ninja 1000 to improve torque and tractability).

Navin, you have hit the bullseye. I have always been a love at first sight kinda guy, be it the Apache RTR (looks being subjective) to the Ninja 300, and the Vstrom proving this point by ensuring I couldnt get attached to the bike. Having said that, the Honda AT is growing on me, no doubt about that. Your suggestion is excellent, I will definitely try to take long test drives on both bikes before finalizing, maybe even rent them if I can manage to find them on rent somewhere (Mumbai/Pune) The Honda really feels very light and balanced and not at all top heavy, thats a major plus point. I do not do hardcore off roading, but I did do Leh and Spiti, and plan to continue regular trips back to the mighty Himalayas. The Kawasaki is probably a generation or even 2 behind the competition and looks dated IMO. While i fell in love at first sight with the Ninja 300, nothing like that happened with the versys1000. The KTM, well, thats another irrelevant story...

Originally Posted by GoBlue

I truly appreciate the focus of your bike shortlist, that indicates that you know exactly what your use-case is and you've homed on to two of the better motorcycles that do an EQUALLY fine job of what you're looking for.

Please let me know which trim of the ATAS (Africa Twin Adventure Sports) you took a test-ride of, the DCT or the MT. That would help to share relevant perspective.

As a 2021 ATAS MT owner, let me begin by adding objectivity to the conversation by sharing some aspects of the Africa Twin vs. the 850 GS as well as the 1250 GS. These are objective comparisons, and whether these are advantages are up to an individual to decide based on THEIR preferences:

1. Engine | 1100cc 270 degree parallel twin:

3. Suspension | 45 mm Showa USD forks / Showa rear:
- ATAS gets full adjustability at the front as well as rear: compression, rebound and spring-preload
- The suspension plushness of the ATAS is premium. In addition, one can setup the front suspension for individual rider weight (sag). Having full re-bound/compression damping adjustment increases one's options to tweak the behaviour as per one's needs.

4. Electronics:
- This is where the ATAS is superbly well equipped (probably better than the 1250 GS)
- Full touchscreen TFT. I'd felt that this would be a gimmick, but after having used it for an year, the luxury of navigating directly with the gloves on is such a premium feeling.

5. Mass centralization / feel while riding:
- It has dual radiators which not only offer incredible cooling performance, also helps achieve better mass centralization.
- I ride the ATAS regularly in city traffic, it's as friendly to ride as any commuter bike.

6. Tank range & fuel requirement:
- 24.8L tank on the ATAS, have seen a range of 580 km after a tank-full
- It requires only 91 RON fuel with 10% Ethanol (read any bunk pan-India). there's no need to fill premium/higher-RON fuel.
- Honda has detuned the India-spec ATAS by 1-2 HP to ensure varying fuel quality doesn't affect the motorcycle in any way

The ATAS is Honda's flagship ADV bike, while the 850GS is not BMW's flagship (that would be the 1200 / 1250 GS). While spending this kind of money on a motorcycle, I'd personally always consider a brand's flagship, as that is the product line where the entire R&D investment has seen maximum focus.

And finally, last but definitely not the least, GoBlue. Neil Jericho just a few hours earlier mentioned you and here you respond, with one of the most comprehensive responses I have seen.
1. I am looking at the MT, I don't want the DCT, I consider running through the gears a purist way of riding (no offense to the DCT owners).

2. I did read somewhere that ATAS was a wannabe GS1250, but with its Dakar pedigree, I doubt it needs to prove anything to anyone. The test drive that I took, showed me the brilliant Honda engineering, making a 240 kg bike appear as flickable as my apache once was, as smooth as the Ninja300 and as comfortable as a sofa on wheels. The mass centralization was felt by not feeling the 200+ kilos in stop and go traffic. Even the radiators design ensured that not too much hot air was directed at my thighs. I wont talk about the wheel size comparison as I have absolutely no idea about the dynamics of the same, but suspension options do sound very positive for the ATAS.

3. Regarding power and displacement, I am not concerned with any of the bikes on offer, because I found even the vstrom650 quite enough power wise, the bikes in consideration were chosen for their premium feel, finish and overall quality.

4. The way you have described the electronics on board the ATAS, almost makes it feel like a nerd kid in an electronics store (I can spend hours n hours in one) and makes me relish about whats in store, a 15 minute startup session before every ride, sounds fun The fact that it does have Android Auto gives it yet another advantage over the Beemer.

5. And finally your summation also makes a lot of sense, why to go for a non flagship product of a brand when another brand is offering its flagship (in my budget obviously)

Thanks everybody for taking your valuable time to give me these opinions, they actually matter in making a decision.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by kosjam

I have one question to all, on an average day, what mileage does the Honda AT give, say while cruising at 100-110 kmph?

Have seen 23-24 kpl if riding in 6th gear at 120 kph (tank range: 580 km).

If one rides this bike like a hooligan (at higher RPMs), which it begs one to in 3rd/4th gears, it gives a respectable 15kpl.

2022 ATAS MT will come in the Tri-color scheme (white + blue + red). DCT will be offered in a different Matte Black scheme. They keep swapping colours every year. The key difference is, gold rims will now be available only with the tri-color (MT).

[VellVector]

Originally Posted by kosjam

2. The seat height is more than the Honda,(860mm vs 830mm) this is a major Negative for me, I am 5'7" and being able to put both feet firmly on the ground is important for bad/no roads due to the weight of the bikes in question. I sold my previous bike due to this as one of the reasons, the V-Strom 650.

I know there are after market kits for lowering the bike, plus lower seats, which actually reduce the foam in the seat, making them less cushioned. But I don't know how effective either of these solutions are.

Don't discount the impact that 30mm makes - it may sound small but on rugged terrain it makes a difference. I have two identical 1250 GSAs in my garage - one mine and the other Dads. One had the 10mm seat lowering bushes on it which we though was snake oil but decided to try it anyways and believe it or not you could actually notice the difference.

Almost all the worthwhile seat lowering kits void the warranty. In Bangalore the touratech distributor is also the BMW dealer. A kit bought through them and installed through them still voids the warranty according to them.

Originally Posted by GoBlue

The ATAS is Honda's flagship ADV bike, while the 850GS is not BMW's flagship (that would be the 1200 / 1250 GS). While spending this kind of money on a motorcycle, I'd personally always consider a brand's flagship, as that is the product line where the entire R&D investment has seen maximum focus.

Having spent a reasonable bit of time on all three of these bikes, I agree with GoBlue, the 850GS gets a lot of street cred from the big brother 1250, especially with similar looks the dealers always try to push it as the same bike with a smaller engine. But there are significant differences between the bikes with features like the tele lever suspension only available on the 1250. The AT on the other had is the best of what Honda offers in an ADV.

However the 850 GS can be got with the electronic suspension (ESA) package which the AT did not offer in India - I'm not sure if this has changed now. But the electronic suspension does make a significant difference in the riding experience.

Originally Posted by kosjam

1. I am looking at the MT, I don't want the DCT, I consider running through the gears a purist way of riding (no offense to the DCT owners).

I have exactly the same thought process, however would encourage you to test ride a DCT if possible. I rode a friends DCT AT while we were riding a rather tough trail and the DCT made life a lot easier by letting you forget about managing your gears and instead focusing on the path. The friend I borrowed it from got off my bike at the end of the trail calling it an overweight bloated cow, so guess to each their own.

[Rachit.K.Dogra]

Originally Posted by kosjam

So I have a dilemma. I'm in the market for one of two choices, the Honda Africa Twin and the BMW GS 850.

Is the 850 GS really confirmed for India? From what I had heard, its not BS6 compliant.

I am no ADV expert and I am entering this segment myself just now but at a much smaller level with a G310GS. But from whatever I have learned from internet and various discussions with friends, is this:
1) An ADV bike needs to provide a balance between road and off road dynamics.
2) Some bikes are more towards road and some are towards off road and one should choose depending on the expected use case. For eg. if you expect to do more highways, a more road biased ADV would be a better. Broken roads most ADVs will be able to do with acceptable ease.

3) In general, GS1250 is the king of the road with very good offroad manners. More road biased.
4) Multistradas are even sportier and more road biased.
5) Triumphs are typically more road biased as well.
6) Africa Twin is more off road biased with good road manners. But will not be as sporty on hilly sections as a GS or a Triumph or a Multistrada.


If you are not considering 1250 GS, and considering 850GS, 1 important factor is 850 GS has a taller seat height than 1250. Even with low seat version, 1250 can go lower than 850GS. 850GS is more offroad oriented than 1250 in my opinion.

ADVs are the hardest bikes to recommend to anyone in my opinion because in general the breadth of abilities of these bikes is so high and most bikes will do most things with acceptable quality.

I would recommend to wait for the 850GS to get launched (it it is getting launched) and then ride and then make up your mind.

I love Hondas and Africa Twin is a wonderful bike. Just as an FYI, there is baby Africa Twin going to come soon. (Hopefully this year globally)

Rachit