[knl.bhg]

So this forum was one of the biggest sources of information when I was choosing which new bike to get. I'm sure it's helped countless people like me who see biking as not a want, but a need.
I won't be spouting heavy emotional stuff about how biking is a passion, or how the wind makes it worth it, mostly because I don't know how to express these things right.
I am not a group riding, bike maintaining, track day sort of a guy (although I do these things sometimes, and how a small bit about self-maintaining lower capacity bikes).

Rather, I am mostly a city rider who rides around at night after a long day (before COVID), and I never quite know where I will end up going, as long as there is a road, and chances of danger (highway robbers) are less.
I do put in a lot of kilometers per week just randomly riding around, and while I hate bad traffic, I don't really care when I take the bike out. Just need a cafe to stop and work

That brings me to..

What kind of bike I wanted to own

- Should be a good city bike i.e highly tractable engine that can easily pull in low RPMs/speeds (a tractor engine, if you will).
- Should be effortless in faster highway speeds when I do get random bouts of city-to-city mania. I've done Chennai to Vellore/Pondy/Bengaluru, Guwahati to Shillong randomly a few times while coming back from a cafe instead of going home.
I don't intend to do sound barrier-breaking speeds, 140-160 is cool for me. But to cruise in that speed effortlessly and still have enough grunt to pull more without straining is a must on the highway.
- Comfortable enough to be in the saddle for 1.5-2 hours without going to the hospital. Don't really care about a sporty riding position.
- Braking ability. When you see a dumbass grandfather crossing the highway like he's going to casually take a dump, you will need to stop fast, and without skidding.
- Good lights. Night riding is not my plan, but I've been delayed on the highway a few times, and a good lighting system is a godsend.
- Naked bikes preferred.
- Bonus: Should be understated. If I keep it in a decent upmarket parking spot (e.g UB City in BLR, Alwarpet in Chennai, Aerocity / DLF in Delhi, Aundh/KP in Pune, Powai in Mumbai, New Town in Kolkata, Jubilee HIlls in HYD, etc), it should not automatically become a squid magnet. One aunty should not keep her kid on top for "one small photo".
But it should feel like a big bike to _me_. I spent money on it dammit! My Dominar actually does a very good job of this I feel.

My biking history

- Pulsar 200 DTSi (first model)
- RE Classic 350 UCE
- Dominar 400

I still have these machines and am very fortunate to not have to sell them.
I'd like to post a review on the Dominar soon too

---

What are my options?

I was looking out from 2019, just before COVID and the last days of the BS4 era.

Pre-covid

- Z650
The most obvious choice for the passionate desi biker on a budget. I test rode this in 2019 and loved the seating posture on that machine. Its low-end grunt was quite beautiful, and it made a strong case for a daily city bike. I almost brought it, but gut feeling told me to wait a bit. It also kinda was a red flag that the test bike ran out of fuel barely 300 meters from the showroom, and they made me wait 20+ mins with the bike like a security guard, _300 meters from the showroom, literally next lane_.
That very week, I saw the news that the new Z650 (with TFT and Bluetooth) was coming, so I decided to wait.
Another red flag: when I told this to the showroom, they upsold their BS4 one so much with the theatrics of "sir new one will be budget-breaking sir, more than 50K more sir, on-road beyond expectation sir!", I was thinking, will you guys make me sell my kidney now?

- Ducati Scrambler
Beautiful bike, but so peppy, and so ultralight, it scared me. Plus that single disk at the front... I know it's world-class brakes, but I don't know, it didn't feel like a +8L bike so much to me on the saddle.
Solid build quality tho.

- Benelli TNT600i
Backbreaking, wallet killing.

- Harley Davidson Street 750
The seating position was good, but the heat... Could have baked an egg with the heat touching my thighs.
Braking was also kind of crap, and that was at low test ride speeds.

- Harley Davidson Street Rod
What if Harley decided to make you feel like riding an R15? On a low center of gravity bike?
While trying to lean on a straight-line cause of the unreasonable heat! True rider skill needed.

- KTM 790 (I think) duke. The scalpel
Last BS4 was going out _in front of my eyes_ from the BLR showroom, as I stepped in. Just 8L on-road.
I could have fought the owner right then and there, gladiator style if he would.
That's the only one I regret not buying

All of these were before COVID. I was almost about to finalize one of these when lockdowns happened.
Guess my EMI got saved :/

Post-covid

I got the Dominar 400 in the meanwhile, so a lot of my experience is also colored by that.
I also took a hard budget of ~9L on-road.

- Triumph Trident
Didn't really feel that much of an upgrade from Dominar. Which is okay. Disappointing, but okay.
What was not cool was the numerous red flags with the test bike.
Handle/T bent. I called it out, and they finally sheepishly admitted it had an accident some days back. :fear:
Grips melting, rubber sticking to my hand. Showroom guys response: "Sir BLR has hot weather no sir." Bhai I am from Guwahati and studied in Chennai. BLR is like Manali for me. It's certainly not grip-melting hot, I think.

- BMW F900
Felt a bit too expensive.

- Triumph Speed Triple
Felt too expensive for my budget.

- Honda CB650R (this bike)
LOL, no. Didn't even want to see it. 2L more than the competition for an LCD display and no riding modes? What?

---

So why the Honda then?

As I talked more with other customers from various brands as well as big bike garages in these last 2 years, I came to realize all brands have issues of spares availability or hidden service charges that kill the wallet.
This forum itself has a lot of horror stories of some of the above mentioned brands.
I had owners from other brands actually try to sell off their bikes to me coyly, citing painful maintainance

Ducati's desmo service charges politely reminded me that at the end of the day, I am not Bruce Wayne.

Honda seemed like a different story. Spares & availability has a good rep, and services prices were pretty low (again, based on talking to owners and garages).
Plus, the big bike feel is amazing when you sit on this, while still remaining fairly inconspicuous.
All of this combined, this bike felt right, and eventually grew on me.

I don't really care much about the inline-4 or its much hyped sound, but the easy power curve and friendly torque are very welcome since I spend a lot of time in traffic or at slower speeds.

---

Pros:
- Amazing tractable engine. More on this below.
- Bike big feel. Feels like that extra money went somewhere in the bike.
- You can feel the Premium-ness. Lines, fittings, switchgear, nuts, bolts, paint, everything feels a little classy, and premium.
- Detailed LCD.
Other than the usual sensors and gauges, you get real time fuel economy, avg speed per trip, avg economy per trip, imperial or metric units, 2 different ways of measuring economy, adjustable brightness, engine rev range lights, and some other stuff I am forgetting. You can even customize some stylistic elements in the display!
- Powerful LEDs. High beam is like a searchlight beam.
- Slick, non-agressive, reads-your-mind traction control.

Cons:
- Sad looking tail section. Somehow underdesigned and overdesigned at the same time.
- No TFT :(
Although to be fair, the LCD has a ton of info.
- Those tires seem like a fraud at the price. Why not just some well-reputed Michelin Road 5s?
- Weird switchgear. All Honda BigWing bikes have this I think, and this one especially also screws with the conventional pass-light position. Even more dangerous, the pass-light switch has traction control instead.
- Low ground clearance. Scraped the bottom a few times already

Niggles:
- Not able to figure out where and how to put a helmet lock. This is a problem if you take friends out on rides and need to keep a pillion helmet somewhere.
- Riding Position is kinda painful over longer durations.
- The beautiful LED high beam is a little too high. Maybe it's a good thing on the highway, but in the city, you'll blind another person (or worse, the cops).
- No ride modes. But at the same time, since it's not ride-by-wire, the connection to the throttle was amazing.
- Non-adjustable clutch levers

---

A more detailed look

Engine
The engine is the best part of this package. Once it gets into 4th-5th gear in the city, it's almost an automatic
Speedbreaker and speeds reduced to 20 kmph? 4th-5th gear pulls.
40 kmph free road to sudden moving traffic? 4th-5th gear pulls.
Steep Flyover? 4th-5th gear pulls.
Feel like giving a little speed but not enough to crash in a traffic light? 4th-5th gear happily.

Its throttle response is linear and doesn't try to throw you off (with the traction control on).
90-110 feels just effortless, like the bike doesn't even realize it's doing that speed.

Brakes
Haven't done the first service and at the moment feels a little damp, or sluggish. I'll update after service.

Riding Position and Handling
Not really uncomfortable but not comfortable either. You can ride around the city in traffic for around 1-1.5 hours without a break. I'm about 5'7.
Beyond that, the spine starts feeling the sprain.
The bike is not as nimble as a smaller capacity naked, but I guess that is to be expected.
I am planning to put bar raisers to deal with these issues.

But it should be noted, I am a fairly fat guy, and have been mostly riding an Enfield Classic and a Dominar before this, so your mileage may vary.

The tires are kinda crap tho, relatively speaking. Under hard braking, and leaning the Trident definitely gave me more confidence.
Maybe it's the placebo effect of the good reputation of the Michelin Road 5's or the lightness of the Trident? Or maybe cause this is a new machine, the brakes haven't set in yet? Regardless, the Trident sure felt grippier.

Sound
I'm not a sound lover, I don't even plan to modify the exhaust. But I do absolutely love a low grumble (which is why I love the Dominar's sound more than the Duke's), and I find a deep bassiness very reassuring.
This bike certainly has that. On lower RPMs it purrs like an sleeping big cat (never thought I'd ever write this clichéd sentence for any bike, but it's the most accurate description I can find). This is not an exaggeration, it really does sound like a big bassy cat.
I absolutely love whatever I heard till now, and the understated growl/purr works just fine for me, I don't like stopping in every police checkpoint anyway.

One big thing I noticed, the bike on low speeds is actually noticeably quieter than on idle.

I didn't go above 7K RPM yet, but on 6K it did seem to change its voice to something much louder, and angrier.
I'll give an update once I take it to a free highway.

---

Buying Experience

Initially I was hesitant to even step into the Honda showroom seeing the wallet breaking price.
But after the hilariously bad experience with the Triumph Trident (see above for details), I was walking towards my bike parked a little away from the Honda showroom, and happened to see the manager/owner (whom I didn't know at the time), who I casually just asked about the CB.
His first sentence was, "Sir I know I am losing customers to Triumph, but you take a ride in this, and then we will talk".
He had no drama of money deposit, or me proving my ability to purchase, or such. He was basically confident of me loving the bike once I ride it.
When I asked about the maintenance and he explained the low cost, I was not ready to believe him.
His reaction again, "Sir you talk to my existing customers who are willing to talk, I'll call them right now and you can verify".
He was even willing to prove the low cost of ownership.
The confidence got me thinking, and I asked around, and sure enough, this guy (Ayush) has an excellent reputation in South India.
Even a Triump showroom guy himself said, if it's Ayush, I can't dish on Honda
A similar sentiment was shown by other Honda owners and even some Kawasaki and Triumph owners!

I figured since Honda's rep is so good, why not go for it. My family and friends were also of the opinion that more money for a better post-sales experience was worth it.

And so after 2 test rides, I made up my mind. To note, these guys gave me the test bike for a long time once they saw I was serious and not a squid, and didn't question my whole family history or purchasing power either. I didn't show up in super expensive clothes or in a suit-boot. I am sure I looked like just another engineer in BLR (which I am), and not really a money-loaded future expensive bike owner (which I'm not).
Nevertheless, they were very respectful, polite, and to-the-point, which suits me just fine.

---

So about the insane upfront cost...

This bike is about 2L more expensive than the Triumph Trident and about 2.5L more than the Z650.
My internalization here is as follows:
About 1L kind of evens out in the long run, as told to me by garage owners (assuming the fables of the low cost of maintenance and spares is true). Plus the fact that you have to hunt for good service centers for other brands since some authorized ones have a very bad rep, implies trial and error for the first few times.
The remaining 1-1.5L is a premium for the better looks, inline-4, and the more premium feel/quality.
Somewhere Honda's parts availability also tipped the balance for me.

---

More details can be found in @abhisheksircar thread (2021 Honda CBR 650R | Ownership Review). His CBR650R has the same platform and most of the stuff he has written there also applies to this bike.

Please do mention if you'd like to see pics from any other angle.
I'll be updating with more details once I do the first service.

[abhi_tjet]

Congratulations on the CB650R. A wonderful all-rounder premium bike which will suit your needs to the T.

I hope you are maintaining the recommended tyre pressure. It should reduce scraping frequency.

[akshayhonda]

Congratulations of the Neo Retro mate. It looks fab to say the least. Slight cosmetic changes and it will look even more mean (Tail Tidy )

I feel your pain about the tyres. Internationally it comes with RoadTec 01

[windiesel]

Originally Posted by knl.bhg

Post-covid

I got the Dominar 400 in the meanwhile, so a lot of my experience is also colored by that.
I also took a hard budget of ~9L on-road.

- Triumph Trident
Didn't really feel that much of an upgrade from Dominar. Which is okay. Disappointing, but okay.
What was not cool was the numerous red flags with the test bike.
Handle/T bent. I called it out, and they finally sheepishly admitted it had an accident some days back. :fear:
Grips melting, rubber sticking to my hand. Showroom guys response: "Sir BLR has hot weather no sir." Bhai I am from Guwahati and studied in Chennai. BLR is like Manali for me. It's certainly not grip-melting hot, I think.

- BMW F900
Felt a bit too expensive.

- Triumph Speed Triple
Felt too expensive for my budget.

Why didn't you consider the Street Twin, the 900cc symphony?

[knl.bhg]

Originally Posted by windiesel

Why didn't you consider the Street Twin, the 900cc symphony?

I rode the interceptor and I didn't quite "feel" it. I'd do a cruiser, but not a fan of old-school British retro designs.

[bf1983]

Congrats on the bike!

Just wondering why you didn't consider the Z900?

To be fair Honda cheap service is largely true but the difference isn't sky high. You may spend 30-40k more on a Triumph or Kawasaki over 5 years. Definitely not 1 lakh. Major costs are tyre changes (30-40k) which happen every 2 years or so and you save around 3k per service after the free service is over.

[knl.bhg]

Originally Posted by bf1983

Congrats on the bike!

Just wondering why you didn't consider the Z900?

To be fair Honda cheap service is largely true but the difference isn't sky high. You may spend 30-40k more on a Triumph or Kawasaki over 5 years. Definitely not 1 lakh. Major costs are tyre changes (30-40k) which happen every 2 years or so and you save around 3k per service after the free service is over.

I thought of them too but refer to my bad experience with both above ^^^.

Also, my understanding is that official support from the above brands is hit or miss (with this forum itself filled with horror stories).

Honda's problem according to me is the smaller number of BigWing Topline service centers, which I can manage better than the problem of service centers treating the bike wrong.

Also more than the cost itself, I was equally concerned about availability of parts.
Kawasaki owners themselves told me stories of waiting for 4-6 months for relatively simple repairs.

Triumph BLR has a really bad reputation that I didn't have the energy to fight with.
Plus their funda of subtly changing the hidden costs on on-road price every time when I went to see them (3 times) was a huge red flag for me.

For me, the main fear was the worst-case scenario. I am not as concerned about the ideal case.
Triumph spares are eye-watering expensive.

[crdi]

Congrats! I too am a happy owner of a 2021 bike, it suits my requirements to the letter. However, I'd like to add that maintenance/service aspects of the topline dealerships aren't that well sorted.

About a week back, I happened to notice that the coolant level of my bike is below the low-level mark. The topline dealership/service center is 200kms away. I hopped in my car and drove to the service center (Just like any other bhpian, I too look forward for reasons to drive/ride).

The conversation with the service advisor goes like this:
Me: The coolant level of my bike, recently serviced by you, is below the lower level. Give me some coolant to top it up.
SA: Please bring your bike here.
Me: I am not going to ride it for 200kms, with low coolant.
SA: Ok, let me check the inventory. Comes back in a few minutes and says that coolant is not available.
Me: Don't feed me this.
SA: Ok, I'll send my superior to speak with you.
SA's superior: Coolant comes in a big barrel and it cannot be given to you. There is no grading for coolants as such, you can by any coolant from any local shop and top it up.
Me: Don't feed me this. I am not going to mix-up coolants on a new bike.
SA's superior: Ok, I'll send someone else to speak with you.
That someone else: Honda doesn't do over the counter sales.
Me: I'd rather send the bike by RSA, if you don't give me the coolant.
That someone else: No need for that, we will be organising a service camp at your place in a week, bring the bike over there, we'll top it up.
Me: I have no hope in that, was told the same when I took delivery of the bike, and such a thing is yet to happen. What are you losing by selling your customer a can of coolant??
That someone else: Ok, let me check. Comes back in a few minutes with a one litre can of coolant.
Me: This is all I wanted in the first place!

Like almost all other automobile dealerships, the sales and the service are managed by different teams. I hope they sort things out. Unless that happens, it is going to remain a bittersweet experience, for prospective new bike owners who don't stay in the vicinity of the service center.

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by crdi

Like almost all other automobile dealerships, the sales and the service are managed by different teams. I hope they sort things out. Unless that happens, it is going to remain a bittersweet experience, for prospective new bike owners who don't stay in the vicinity of the service center.

Utter jokers. Issues like this are what causes us to get mad at dealers. Sales and service may be different but a dealer needs to know what the left and right arms do. And all this over a can of coolant?

Btw coolant doesn't come in big barrels. This is not a beer keg. You should slap that SA superior next time. The maximum I have seen is 20 liter but not everyone orders them.

[Xaos636]

Originally Posted by crdi

Congrats! I too am a happy owner of a 2021 bike, it suits my requirements to the letter. However, I'd like to add that maintenance/service aspects of the topline dealerships aren't that well sorted.

Next time, go to any Honda dealer who services the CBR150R/250R and get the coolant in 1L can. Hardly costs Rs.230 and Honda uses the same for all bikes from CBR150R to the Goldwing.

[akshayhonda]

Originally Posted by Xaos636

Next time, go to any Honda dealer who services the CBR150R/250R and get the coolant in 1L can. Hardly costs Rs.230 and Honda uses the same for all bikes from CBR150R to the Goldwing.

+1 to this. I have got the same coolant on a recommendation from a ZX10R owner who is my buddy from GJ. I was out to waste money in name of big brands when he being a ex-ISRO guy and super technical. Went ahead in local dealership to get 230/L can of blue colored Honda coolant

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by knl.bhg

I don't really care much about the inline-4 or its much hyped sound, but the easy power curve and friendly torque are very welcome since I spend a lot of time in traffic or at slower speeds.

knl.bhg, congratulations on your CB650R. It is such a great motorcycle and you are articulated its strengths and weaknesses in a very fair and unbiased manner. It is a pity that people overlook the CB650R only on account of the price and do not even step into a Honda showroom. I look forward to more updates on this thread and obviously, we all would like to see more pictures from the rides that are joining.

Originally Posted by crdi

Me: I'd rather send the bike by RSA, if you don't give me the coolant.
That someone else: No need for that, we will be organising a service camp at your place in a week, bring the bike over there, we'll top it up.

crdi, its unfortunate that the folks in the Honda Cochin service team couldnt just sort out such a simple thing without you having to jump through so many hoops. What most Triumph owners from non Cochin cities do is just call for RSA and get the service center guys to make things right, irrespective of whether it a small issue or a large issue. I would have done the same if I was in your shoes.

[knl.bhg]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

knl.bhg, congratulations on your CB650R. It is such a great motorcycle and you are articulated its strengths and weaknesses in a very fair and unbiased manner. It is a pity that people overlook the CB650R only on account of the price and do not even step into a Honda showroom. I look forward to more updates on this thread and obviously, we all would like to see more pictures from the rides that are joining.



crdi, its unfortunate that the folks in the Honda Cochin service team couldnt just sort out such a simple thing without you having to jump through so many hoops. What most Triumph owners from non Cochin cities do is just call for RSA and get the service center guys to make things right, irrespective of whether it a small issue or a large issue. I would have done the same if I was in your shoes.

Ah the fabled Triumph RSA hack. One of the biggest reasons I got scared of the Trident.
Very decent bike otherwise, and my first choice.

[ruchiragrawal]

Hi knl.bhg!

I'm looking to get a CB650R as well! Do you think we can get in touch to talk about it more? I'm specifically talking from the point of view of discussing OTR prices as well as 2022 vs. 2021 models.

[knl.bhg]

Originally Posted by ruchiragrawal

Hi knl.bhg!

I'm looking to get a CB650R as well! Do you think we can get in touch to talk about it more? I'm specifically talking from the point of view of discussing OTR prices as well as 2022 vs. 2021 models.

Hey man, sure.
Here is my Instagram, feel free to message me here