[no_fear]

I will be a bit blunt here and my words may sting, but I will not recommend you to jump from a Royal Enfield to a Busa. That's a sure way to end in misfortune.

You are moving from 20~30 hp to 200hp in one shot. It's not a linear progression and you will not know how to handle this power. Even though you have riding skills, it's a massive jump in your ability to actually ride a bike that is not as forgiving as a lower cc one. Its best to take incremental steps. A 650 cc bike with 100 hp is a better bet. If your ultimate goal is the Busa, better buy a used 600 cc bike, get the hang of it, upgrade your skills and then climb the rungs.

[karanddd]

I see a lot of big bike gatekeeping in this thread. You can easily get yourself killed on a 650 if you go full throttle at the wrong time, and this is true broadly. The most accident prone bike in India (in proportion to sale numbers) is the Duke 390.

Getting a second hand middleweight requires a lot of waiting, knowhow, connections, then you ride it for a bit and sell it at a loss. If you don't want the bike, the whole process is silly and unnecessary. If it's a Busa you want, just go for it.

I also don't understand what "skills" people are talking about here. Indian roads are too broken, ill designed and traffic dense to ride any big bike fast. By and large the big thrill people get out of their middleweight Ninjas et al is the highway pulling power, and it requires the very important skill of twist your throttle but not too much.

You can do the same thing on a Hayabusa. Plenty of kids in America end up getting a liter class bike as their first bike (because they can). There are many Hayabusa as first bike posts on various forums if you look. And those are people who've barely ridden at all before. You have experience riding, which means you can ride anything. Have faith in yourself and go get a Busa.

Edit: Saw your post that you've been riding for 15 years. Come on, man, you can ride anything, just don't think about it. You have more than enough experience.

[shancz]

Few points :
- Please don't consider the Ninja1000 as a middle weight, it isn't Middleweights would be the 650-800s like the Speed Triple 765, CBR650R

- I would recommend getting something like a Ninja 1000 to someone used to riding the 390s at their limits for some time skipping the middle step as the electronics/riding modes can provide that step.
But since you've been riding REs till date my concern is about how comfortable would you be with the high/fast revving power delivery of the bikes we're talking about.
My concern stems from a friend who has been riding REs all along finds it a bit uneasy to rev anything higher than 4-5000rpm and that's a learning he has to make when shifting over to something free revving as even the 390Adv.

So, my suggestion would be to get familiar with the power delivery if you aren't with say the 390 Duke and then decide on the next step, you will have a better idea yourself.

In case you're riding the 650 twins even then try out either the 390 or any 650 you can get your hands on or just rent for a day to get a feel of things before putting any big money.

Apologies in case it feels too cautious, I am just speaking from personal experience, yours could be different.
Hope it helps.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by karanddd

I see a lot of big bike gatekeeping in this thread.

I wouldn’t call other people’s views as “gatekeeping”. People are providing individual opinions in good faith, to which each one is entitled - the idea of a forum is indeed to bring out varied opinions and perspectives.

I’m not in a position to guess if the choice of tagging it as ‘gatekeeping’ is down to lack of maturity or lack of etiquette. While I have my opinion of your own opinion (which is best kept to myself), I definitely wouldn’t attribute adjectives to it.

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by karanddd

I see a lot of big bike gatekeeping in this thread.
You can do the same thing on a Hayabusa. Plenty of kids in America end up getting a liter class bike as their first bike (because they can). There are many Hayabusa as first bike posts on various forums if you look. And those are people who've barely ridden at all before. You have experience riding, which means you can ride anything. Have faith in yourself and go get a Busa

Respectfully disagree with some of your statements. There is no gatekeeping here but a healthy exchange of opinions. Name calling and adjectives are not necessary. We are not OP's parents or accountants that we need to force decisions on him.

With regards to your quoted example, it is not the best one to use. The US has a single tiering license system which many people take advantage of. I obtained a US motorcycle license, after going through the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course, and I was given a 150 cc bike to ride and take classes. Every single biker I know (about 30 of us in that class) went and bought a 1000 cc bike, and promptly crashed and injured themselves in the next 6 months.

Countries that take a calculated, safe view towards motorbiking, make the license holders go through a tiering process, where you spend a few years riding 200cc, then 500cc, and then 1000cc.

The US roadways are wide, car traffic is predictable and most people ride their bikes for pleasure only during the summer months. No one thinks about a cow or a dog or a child running across the road, an Activa guy on his mobile cutting into the lane, or an Uber cutting you off.

If you think the only skill you need to ride a middle weight bike is to twist the throttle, then I am afraid you are very wrong.

[karanddd]

Originally Posted by Axe77

I wouldn’t call other people’s views as “gatekeeping”. People are providing individual opinions in good faith, to which each one is entitled - the idea of a forum is indeed to bring out varied opinions and perspectives.

I’m not in a position to guess if the choice of tagging it as ‘gatekeeping’ is down to lack of maturity or lack of etiquette. While I have my opinion of your own opinion (which is best kept to myself), I definitely wouldn’t attribute adjectives to it.

I saw your post that one needs to spend 15k-20k km riding a bike one doesn't want to "earn" the bike one does want. It's fine if you think that but maybe there are people who don't want to ride that much at all. Life is short, the world is ending, so let people have their Busas.

When I say gatekeeping, I don't mean to suggest that it's in bad faith. I trust that everyone is suggesting what they are suggesting in good faith, but that doesn't change the content of the suggestion, which amounts to prescribing a graded hierarchy of what bike what person can have when, which is precisely an act of gatekeeping. The gates to the big bikes top tier, as it were, are shut to the small bike rider.

Hope that makes sense.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by drgeorgeroy

Just a doubt. Is the gen3 tame enough to handle for someone who's never ridden a superbike before? Should i go for the Busa , or work my way up the displacement categories? I've been riding for around 15 years but its mostly been only Royal Enfields. But the Gen3 is has been driving me crazy ever since it's launched , and my heart's set itself to owning the Gen3 while my mind is telling me otherwise!

Firstly, welcome aboard...

To answer your question if the Busa is tame enough yes it is if you ride it at 60kph in 6th gear, but once you open up the throttle even in 6th gear at that speed it can very quickly turn into a unpleasant experience if you're not prepared to what is going to come next..

When I rode my Busa for the first time I was really intimidated by it and felt that I had bitten more than I could chew. But overtime once I better understood the bike and what it can do and when is how I started getting more comfortable/confident riding it.

I had limited riding experience when it came to liter bikes before buying the Busa and I moved from a RX to a Ninja 650(this lasted only for 18 months and less than 5k kms) and then to the Busa.. But as Neil mentioned in his post the deciding factors will be your riding skills and where you plan to ride the Busa.

As I said, I had limited riding experience when it came to big displacement bikes (500 and above). However, I had ridden many powerful two strokes up to 350 cc (RZ/RD's) which created insane amount of power very very quickly as you build up the revs. How a bike is tuned and builds up the power is what matters then displacement is what I learnt with two strokes.

Further, the small winding roads where I enjoy riding the two strokes is not the tarmac I would consider riding the Busa. Even the within city limit rides on the Busa is no fun as you know you can't even tap into 10% of its capability and the open highway is where it needs to be ridden to enjoy it the most.

Hence, I think you should take a call primarily keeping these two points in mind. All the best with your decision

[androdev]

I am just curious, what if I am RE rider for the last 15 years and i go ahead buy myself a Busa and ride it pretending that it's a 50bhp first few months, 100bhp next few months and maybe i am never interested in using more than 100bhp - i just love the idea of owning such a lovely bike and i don't have much else to do with my spare cash. Why can't i do a logical progression on the same bike instead of wasting time and money on a bike that doesn't excite me much?

Why can't I simply buy the bike of my dreams and tame it with all the caution and progressive learning? I mean what if I buy mid level practical bike that i don't actually have no emotions for and end up being content with it and losing steam to do the upgrade? Timing is equally critical in life?

[ranjitnair77]

I think you can pretty much upgrade to any capacity motorcycle if you are an experienced rider. @drgeorgeroy certainly falls into that category as he has been riding for 15 years. He should just go and get a test ride of a Busa and he'll know if the bike is right for him. I don't think a showroom will provide a test ride so he might want to reach out to owners/clubs.

A thread like this will be filled with opinions, but here's the thing about motorcycles. What applies to Peter does not apply to Paul. Only you know what works for you, so go ahead and find out for yourself. And while you are at it, go ahead and try out all the big bikes. This is the best part of the bike buying process so enjoy it to the maximum. You never know what you might end up buying at the end of it all

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by no_fear

You are moving from 20~30 hp to 200hp in one shot. It's not a linear progression and you will not know how to handle this power. Even though you have riding skills, it's a massive jump in your ability to actually ride a bike that is not as forgiving as a lower cc one

no_fear and all our well meaning superbike owners, I am not multi-quoting everyone here, but addressing all you regular riders and owners. Your garage has to be applauded even by the Gods no_fear

On our forum (any forum for that matter) we recommend based on the written word about experience or expertise since we don’t know the person or have no other way to understand their experience or ability or maturity. Understanding (judging) everyone’s ability by the same yardstick would not be the right way to go, it differs from person to person. In fact a mature, sensible and experienced rider would be more likely to ride a Hayabusa with more care and caution than a 650 or 1000 because he understands the need to. So if someone says he is an experienced, mature rider, the recommendation has to be likewise, versus someone who says he is 18-20 years of age and wants to buy his first superbike.

Let’s say you know a person very well personally, know he is a sensible, mature rider who is not going to open the throttle like an idiot or ride irresponsibly, would your recommendation still be the same. I know of people who have had bad accidents, even fatal ones on even the old Rajdoot Yamaha 350 or even RX 100’s because they were ridden without maturity or want of better words, like idiots. Mind you the road conditions were much better 30-35 years back than they are now, whichever part of our country you talk about. It’s not the cubic capacity of the bike which kills, it’s the idiocy, inexperience or immaturity of the rider 99% of the time. The balance 1% maybe attributed to simply bad luck or mistake of the opposite vehicle owner or a bad judgement call/mistake, which may happen even to a Schwantz, Doohan, Rossi or Marquez.

no_fear, you mention “you will not know how to handle this power”, won’t that be the case ONLY if the rider in question opens the throttle like an idiot or is plain stupid or immature. What if the rider like our Doctor here rides the Hayabusa (for the sake of discussion) exactly like he would ride the CBR650R or the Ninja 1000 which many recommend. Why is the Hayabusa not good enough for him then? Would the 650 or 1000 not get him into enough or lethal trouble if not ridden maturely?

This is a great discussion and lots of fun. Let’s roll with it. By now drgeorgeroy must be thinking let me start with a Honda Activa again. Just kidding folks

Have a super day and ride safe everyone.

Cheers

[Samba]

15 years of riding an Enfield is a good experience.
I at your place would have bought it. Get the bike and be patient with it. Do not let your adrenaline rush in while riding. Understand the bike by riding slow. You will get a hang of it even before you would have realized! Use the run-in period to understand the bike!
All it will need is to keep your right wrist in check. It can be fatal even with a 650cc or 1000cc bike too, if you are not cautious.

[drgeorgeroy]

I am so overwhelmed by the response I've got to this simple query of mine. I presumed that the answer would also be simple and unanimous. This thread has now left me even more confused to be honest!

I have seen far too many fatalities and severely morbid RTA cases throughout my medical training and my current practice. I very well know the perils of motorcyling and haven't ever risked my life at any point on public roads for a few seconds of fun.

My only intention was to fulfill my childhood dream of someday owning a Suzuki Hayabusa. You know, the Dhoom syndrome. Pretty sure many of us had it at one point . My bedroom wall used to be filled with Haybusa magazine cut outs and wallpapers.

The new Gen3 with all its tech and its retained classic gen1/2 charm just re-ignited that wide-eyed Busa-struck child within me!

I intend to take the motorcycle out on an occasional sunday ride and maybe open up the throttle a bit only if i find an empty stretch of road. I'm just too old and I've seen far too much , to be redlining such a powerful machine on our crazy unapologetic roads.

But as many of you guys have mentioned, i would probably first have to get a feel of how a superbike rides , since i have never experienced it before. Perhaps a middleweight bike might be the right fit for me , and a Hayabusa might just be an overkill and way too powerful for me!

[Mr.Ogre]

Originally Posted by karanddd

I see a lot of big bike gatekeeping in this thread. You can easily get yourself killed on a 650 if you go full throttle at the wrong time, and this is true broadly. The most accident prone bike in India (in proportion to sale numbers) is the Duke 390.

Getting a second hand middleweight requires a lot of waiting, knowhow, connections, then you ride it for a bit and sell it at a loss. If you don't want the bike, the whole process is silly and unnecessary. If it's a Busa you want, just go for it.

.

I disagree to a lot of what you said. In any developed country they have tiered licence for motorbikes. At least that is how it is here in Australia. One simply cannot obtain a licence to ride bigger bikes unless you have passed through the system.

Coming to roads and lack of opportunity to utilise skills in India, trust me I have toured quite a lot in India before I came here. We have been through some of the most beautiful curvy roads one can ever come across, and yes those roads need all the skill you have got to keep the rubber side down.

More than the highways, in the city too you need all the skills you have to arrive safe without putting you or anybody else in trouble.

Of course not all the riders are same when it comes to adapting easily to bigger bikes. Some can jump from 100cc to a litre class and still ride like they were meant to, but we are not talking about those exceptional talents here.

I have been riding since 15 years now, and every day I feel like there is still more scope to improve my skills, not just to go faster but also to be safer.

I hope you get the gist as I can just go on and on i.e. before I run out of my quota of English for today, but I think most get the point.

And lastly, electronics do provide a safety net, but it does not compensate for lack of skills. Sure when you overshoot your corner or realise that you are hot, the corner abs and all that trickery will most likely not lock the brakes, and could help depending on how hot you are, but there are so many things here that electronics wont help. Like your body position, teaching yourself not to panic, learning when to brake and how much to brake, target fixation etc - all this needs some experience. And that's not just one scenario, there are so many to mention here. One may argue that they will be riding in their limits, still when you have something like a busa or even a respectable 650 underneath you, you do get the urge sometimes. Come on we are humans, and temptations are always there.

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

What if the rider like our Doctor here rides the Hayabusa (for the sake of discussion) exactly like he would ride the CBR650R or the Ninja 1000 which many recommend. Why is the Hayabusa not good enough for him then? Would the 650 or 1000 not get him into enough or lethal trouble if not ridden maturely?

@Cyborg - your post has raised a lot of food for thought. Before I bore everyone, I wanted to share some observations of the Indian big bike market:

1. Right now, the big bike market is turning into a sellers market. With weekend lockdowns, Omicron cases and general sense of doom, people are looking to dispose off their rides. Several folks are already facing a cash crunch. I get 2 - 3 calls everyday from people who want to sell their bikes. And these are fairly new bikes bought in 2019 - 2021. Most have not been ridden in past 2 years and with riding season ending in March / April, a lot of riders want to sell their rides and cut their losses.

2. Conversely, the new bike market in India is getting expensive. Most big bike makers are hiking prices by double digit %. New bikes are becoming more expensive. That means sooner or later, people who want to buy a big bike, will want to buy a used one than a new one based on the pricing delta.

I feel that if you are looking to buy a used 650 cc bike, now is a good time to pick one up. You can ride the bike for a year or two, and still be able to sell it without losing much out due to the supply / demand imbalance that will hit the market.

Now onwards, to the skills part. For the Busa, the key riding factors are power / weight ratio, throttle control, clutch control, engine braking, and braking. There’s an old saying that it’s more fun to go fast on something slow, than to go slow on something fast and this is very true for a bike like the Busa. With it's large motor, the torque is always available, which means you will constantly concentrate on throttle control instead of concentrating on other skills, like leaning, steering and braking. The last thing you want when coming out of a tight turn is to give the bike too much throttle and break the rear tire loose. People get too engrossed in just throttle control and forget about clutch control, engine braking or counter steering.

A middle weight bike provides you a more encompassing platform to get acclimatized and tune your riding skills. It is more forgiving. The throttle power is manageable and not too crazy, and you get to learn how to play with the bike through clutch control and engine braking.

The problem I often see in India is that people buy a big 1000cc bike purely through emotion, then once they start riding it, they realize its too much for them, and then promptly sell it.

In the end it's about the journey. If the OP wants to buy a Hayabusa, by all means he should. But he should be able to enjoy the bike.

Originally Posted by Mr.Ogre

And lastly, electronics do provide a safety net, but it does not compensate for lack of skills. Sure when you overshoot your corner or realise that you are hot, the corner abs and all that trickery will most likely not lock the brakes, and could help depending on how hot you are, but there are so many things here that electronics wont help. Like your body position, teaching yourself not to panic, learning when to brake and how much to brake, target fixation etc - all this needs some experience.

Very eloquently written and to the point. Fully agree with Mr Ogre.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by no_fear

I feel that if you are looking to buy a used 650 cc bike, now is a good time to pick one up. You can ride the bike for a year or two, and still be able to sell it without losing much out due to the supply / demand imbalance that will hit the market.

This is perfect advice since renting a bike won't give you the experience of living with a big bike.

Originally Posted by no_fear

For the Busa, the key riding factors are power / weight ratio, throttle control, clutch control, engine braking, and braking. There’s an old saying that it’s more fun to go fast on something slow, than to go slow on something fast and this is very true for a bike like the Busa.

This is what I meant when talking about power delivery. All these factors come together when you've added a bit more throttle than needed over a slightly worn out surface like a downhill left hander and you have a powerslide or not(even if controlled by the TCS it won't be a natural feeling but is highly personal)
This is the most important factor IMO since it isn't something which won't happen regularly but when it does the muscle memory kicks in and that is something to be practiced, IMHO.

Originally Posted by no_fear

In the end it's about the journey. If the OP wants to buy a Hayabusa, by all means he should. But he should be able to enjoy the bike.

This is the ultimate point which captures the crux of the matter.

As the OP mentioned, start out by trying different bikes across segments, renting or whatever means and then figure out the next step.

Riding will answer all the questions we're discussing here and more importantly in context of the OP.
Good Luck