[gigatech2006]

Mods. I searched the threads for a similar discussion and wasn't able to find anything definitively. Please merge, if you have one. Thanks!

I have a RE Continental GT 535 and I'm looking to upgrade. This will be my one and only upgrade before the finality of the electric bikes flood the market. So, it must satisfy the following criteria:

1. Value for money - in this case, style over substance is fine but the substance must be substantial. I don't want to own a beautiful looking motorcycle, but cringe on hard seats and stiff suspension while riding
2. I'd like to do long rides, but not exceeding 400kms a day. That 400kms shouldn't be tiresome. (I'll do long 'solo' rides only, so not looking for pillion comfort on highways). I can't do more than 200kms on my GT535 before massaging my shoulders. Strangely, I've never got a back pain on this bike.
3. Reliability should be high. I'm coming from an old RE with a hit or miss reliability, though my old bullet std 350 never spent a day in the service centers apart from regular service. Can't say the same with GT535
4. I know I'm getting into the superbike zone, and I'm not expecting cheap spare parts. But, the spare parts shouldn't be obscenely expensive
5. Service costs - I spend 3k every 6 months for the 535. I wouldn't mind spending 10k a year for the superbike. Anything more than this, I may have to think hard

So guys, point me in the right direction. I really loved the Ducati Scrambler. I loved the Triumph Street Twin too, but my mind always compares that with the RE 650 and the price point (what am I getting for the extra 6.5 lacs), and things like that.

I'm going to keep this motorcycle for a very long time - that is, as long I'm physically fit to ride So, appreciate your suggestions and pointers. And do point out if I'm being sensible with my requirements.

Thank you!

[sandeepmohan]

When it comes to value for money, it is impossible to beat the Royal Enfield 650's. There is nothing like it. Reading around here and the general inter web feeds, reliability is high and not something you'll need to worry about. Touring solo on a Interceptor is fine. Likely the easiest and cheapest to own in this group as all parts, spares are manufactured locally.

I cannot comment too much on the Scrambler or Street Twin. Looking at these bikes, I am not so sure about a Scrambler being suited for any kind of touring. The Triumph will be more suited to this and its a bigger bike too. Riding pleasure is likely to the highest with the Triumph. The good old 900cc block continues and this motor is music to your ears.

I would not put a price to this comparison. They are all very different motorcycles. Having ridden the old T100/120, if I had Triumph sort of money spend, its an eyes closed buy for me.

[redeff]

I've had people do long rides on the scramber. Have done a ladakh ride from Delhi too. First is the obvious advantage that the ducati has, it has more power than the other two. The Icon's suspension is quite 'meh' specially on broken roads. None of the three bikes you have mentioned have offroad creds. Modifications can always be made to these bikes to make them more comfy, but the significant power bump that the scrambler gets is pretty important to me, specially if this is your last internal combustion bike. The engine is pretty reliable , old school and charming. The suspension can always be upgraded later if you so wish. There are a few issues that were there with the older clutch system,but they have been changed now.

I bought the scrambler the last time around. Would do so again.

[roy_libran]

If you are open to the price range of the Ducati Scrambler, just go for it. It's a lovely bike, quite flexible in what it can do, and easy to handle all around. I have a number of these in my circle and the guys do regular touring as well. I am assuming your use case is 1-Up riding only, else the ST is a wee bit better.

[gigatech2006]

Originally Posted by redeff

...specially if this is your last internal combustion bike. The engine is pretty reliable , old school and charming. The suspension can always be upgraded later if you so wish.

I bought the scrambler the last time around. Would do so again.

Thanks much! Yes, this will be my last IC engine. I don't intend to buy electric bikes even if the govt at some point makes an unsurprising stupid decision to ban all IC motorcycles. I will just have it in my garage as a trophy. NO electric motorcycles. Period (maybe only if they can also hover like the ones in Mandalorian )

[no_fear]

You want to spend Rs 10k on bike maintenance. The Ducati will cost you much more than that yearly just on parts and labor. I wouldn't recommend based on your current maintenance budget.

[AtheK]

Originally Posted by gigatech2006

Thanks much! Yes, this will be my last IC engine. I don't intend to buy electric bikes even if the govt at some point makes an unsurprising stupid decision to ban all IC motorcycles. I will just have it in my garage as a trophy. NO electric motorcycles. Period (maybe only if they can also hover like the ones in Mandalorian )

I have had few issues with Interceptor in a month of owning it, maybe i just got unlucky, but think about it, long and hard since you want to keep it for long.

Originally Posted by no_fear

You want to spend Rs 10k on bike maintenance. The Ducati will cost you much more than that yearly just on parts and labor. I wouldn't recommend based on your current maintenance budget.

What he said, a small fall and a broken lever will cost around 10K+, do factor in the spares cost as well along with maintenance cost. Since you plan to keep it for long this will all add up.

If you are up for it, maybe pre owned can be a good idea, likes of tiger 800 and Versys 1000 will sit in your budget easily.

[neil.jericho]

gigatech2006, you certainly have raised a most interesting question. Im sure that fellow members will have a lot of opinions on your post as these are very diverse bikes and many of us will be able to relate to your situation. This requires a multi layered answer, so let me try to slice it and look at it from different lenses.

The good thing is that each bike is quite capable and has been around for some time. So accessories availability is not going to be a problem. However, touring and aftermarket accessories for the 650 twins are going to be a lot cheaper than the other two. There is no doubting that.

On the service costs, you can expect anything between Rs 6 - 10K for the service of the Triumph and the Ducati. Once these bikes are out of warranty, you can get them serviced in top garages like Highlander (HSR Layout) and others, where the service bills will come down and the quality of workmanship is impeccable. But, the abatross around the Street Twin's neck is the abysmal service quality and incompetence of the Bangalore Triumph dealership. To me, that is a complete dealbreaker if this is a new bike purchase. If you were looking at pre-owned bikes, I would say that buying a Triumph in Bangalore is not a problem and you can get it serviced outside the dealership. On the Ducati front, do bear in the mind the cost of the impending and dreaded Desmo service. There was a discussion on the prices being charged across cities in one of no_fear's Ducati threads IIRC. So, keep aside Rs 50K for it in a recurring deposit, if you buy your Ducati Scrambler. Ducati service quality in Bangalore is good, other members like deepfreak_15 who own Ducatis in Bangalore can chip in here. Royal Enfield has service centers around Bangalore, so there is nothing to worry about in terms of reach or costs.

Since you mentioned that spares should not be obscenely priced, do take a look at the pricing of tires nowadays. Dont be surprised when you have to replace the tires on your next bike after 15K kms.

For long rides, all three bikes should be fine. Get a windscreen and you will be able to easily manage. 400 kms is not that much compared to some of the mile munching that other TBHPians do. Ive done 550 kms easily on my Continental GT 535.

Now, coming to the tough part. You mentioned value for money as an important criteria. To be honest, this single criterion swings the decision, completely in favour of the 650 twins. Yes, the Street Twin and the Ducati Scrambler are better bikes than the 650 twins. They are better engineered, will give you you the big brand feels and get you exclusivity.

But are they Rs 6.5 lakhs better? Absolutely not!
Are they Rs 3 lakh better? Absolutely not!

If the gap was Rs 1 to 1.5 L or so (for arguments sake), yes, I could convince you that the Triumph or the Ducati are worth the premium. But Rs 6.5L is a whole lot of money in 2021. Keep some money aside for modding the Royal Enfield 650 twin and put the rest in an FD, buy Eicher Motors shares and invest in mutual funds. You will save money and make money at the same time.

Case closed, right? Not exactly.

Now, all of this goes for a toss, if this is your last motorcycle purchase. You are looking for the one bike that will do it all and remain in your garage for the next 20 to 30 years. So what bike pulls your heart strings the most? When you are retired and want to go on a ride, will you enjoy your current ride or will you look back wistfully and regret not buying a different bike? In the really long run, will the extra cost of the Triumph and the Ducati, really make a difference? Isnt it better to be happier and not regret missing out on a purchase?

Like all of us, you seem to be battling between your heart and your head. So let me make it simple. If you are buying with
- Only your head : Royal Enfield 650 (Interceptor or GT is upto you). Its so inexpensive that you can buy one Interceptor and one GT 650 and it will still cost you less than either the Ducati or the Triumph. Think about that.
- Head + Heart : Royal Enfield 650 or the Ducati Scrambler. The service quality at the Triumph Bangalore dealership should make you stay away.
- Only your heart : Buy what you want. If its the Ducati, hope interest rates on your Ducati FD are high. If its the Triumph, pray that warranty gets over quickly.

Case most definitely closed, right? Maybe not.

Now, like you, I too own a Continental GT 535 and I have a bigger bike (the Triumph Street Triple 675) in my garage. So let me throw in my last 2 cents, based on my 3 years of owning both bikes in Kerala. Of course, the road and traffic conditions here are not the same as what it is in Bangalore, so take it for what its worth. With the benefit of these few years of experience, I feel that if you have a scooter or a bike for your city duties, then getting a big bike like the Triumph Street Twin or the Ducati Scrambler makes a lot of sense. Keep the big bike for weekend fun and you can use your smaller bike for everything else in between. But if you will only have one bike in your garage, then the Royal Enfield twins should be it. End to end, it is a better big bike than the other two as it will do your daily commute, the weekend fun rides, touring and what not, reliably and economically. Its the best engineered Royal Enfield to date and there is a reason as to why it is selling so well in International markets and why it has won so many awards in India and abroad.

If I had to sell both my current bikes and buy only one motorcycle, that I had to keep for the next ten years, if not more, it would undoubtedly be the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650.

[gigatech2006]

Neil, seriously! I didn't expect such a beautiful and analytical answer with a lot of pointers.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

The good thing is that each bike is quite capable and has been around for some time. So accessories availability is not going to be a problem. However, touring and aftermarket accessories for the 650 twins are going to be a lot cheaper than the other two.

But are they Rs 6.5 lakhs better? Absolutely not!
Are they Rs 3 lakh better? Absolutely not!

Yes, that's the conundrum - didn't expect the 650 to be this good to question the money one can spend on the others. I'm an audio/hifi enthusiast and I recommend gears for my friends. I always highlight the law of 'diminishing returns' in hifi when they purchase amplifiers and speakers. Looks like the 650 vs the rest is a great visceral example of the law in action.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

400 kms is not that much compared to some of the mile munching that other TBHPians do. Ive done 550 kms easily on my Continental GT 535.

This is something I couldn't get to do on the 535. On my STD 350 the max I've done is 400kms a day and so having that as the safe ceiling. I don't know...may be I can do more on the Interceptor, Ducati or Triumph. I kinda liked the upright sitting and rear set footpegs on the Ducati. Need to do a more comprehensive ride in the position.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Now, all of this goes for a toss, if this is your last motorcycle purchase. You are looking for the one bike that will do it all and remain in your garage for the next 20 to 30 years. So what bike pulls your heart strings the most? When you are retired and want to go on a ride, will you enjoy your current ride or will you look back wistfully and regret not buying a different bike? In the really long run, will the extra cost of the Triumph and the Ducati, really make a difference? Isnt it better to be happier and not regret missing out on a purchase?

Well, way back in 2015, when Fiat introduced the Avventura powered by Abarth, I wanted to buy that. However, kept postponing it due to various reasons and it slipped completely out of my hands. That's one car I regret not purchasing when I had the chance. Every time I see a red Avventura on the road, I blame myself for missing the opportunity. If I have to get a lovely, butch looking car that's powerful and also drove well like the Avventura, I'm looking at 20+ lacs.

This is one of the reasons I mention that this will be my last motorcycle purchase - just wanted to buy the one that I will regret NOT buying, 15 years from now. I don't think I will regret either the Ducati or the Triumph 15 years from now. I guess!

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

If I had to sell both my current bikes and buy only one motorcycle, that I had to keep for the next ten years, if not more, it would undoubtedly be the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650.

This is spot on. I've always thought of this angle so many times, and every time I do, I lean towards the INT/GT 650. Not sure I will like the INT more than the GT and also felt that way when I test rode them back to back 3 years ago.

Thanks again for taking the time to give me the much needed clarity, for your pointers!

[D3A]

Originally Posted by gigatech2006

Mods. I searched the threads for a similar discussion and wasn't able to find anything definitively. Please merge, if you have one. Thanks!

I have a RE Continental GT 535 and I'm looking to upgrade. This will be my one and only upgrade before the finality of the electric bikes flood the market. So, it must satisfy the following criteria:

1. Value for money - in this case, style over substance is fine but the substance must be substantial. I don't want to own a beautiful looking motorcycle, but cringe on hard seats and stiff suspension while riding
2. I'd like to do long rides, but not exceeding 400kms a day. That 400kms shouldn't be tiresome. (I'll do long 'solo' rides only, so not looking for pillion comfort on highways). I can't do more than 200kms on my GT535 before massaging my shoulders. Strangely, I've never got a back pain on this bike.
3. Reliability should be high. I'm coming from an old RE with a hit or miss reliability, though my old bullet std 350 never spent a day in the service centers apart from regular service. Can't say the same with GT535
4. I know I'm getting into the superbike zone, and I'm not expecting cheap spare parts. But, the spare parts shouldn't be obscenely expensive
5. Service costs - I spend 3k every 6 months for the 535. I wouldn't mind spending 10k a year for the superbike. Anything more than this, I may have to think hard

So guys, point me in the right direction. I really loved the Ducati Scrambler. I loved the Triumph Street Twin too, but my mind always compares that with the RE 650 and the price point (what am I getting for the extra 6.5 lacs), and things like that.

I'm going to keep this motorcycle for a very long time - that is, as long I'm physically fit to ride So, appreciate your suggestions and pointers. And do point out if I'm being sensible with my requirements.

Thank you!

Let me share my 2 cents here. I ride a 2019 Street Twin.

(*) Value for money - The Interceptor wins here between the 3 options you have mentioned. No room for any debate.

(*) Touring : All 3 of these bikes will need some sort of modifications to adjust the ergonomics to your body for touring purposes. None of them are built as touring bikes.

(*) The Interceptor suffers from small niggles here and there, but no major issues as such. Add to that poor service experience of many Interceptor riders on big groups like Happinessperkm. I dont know about the reliability of Ducatis since Ducati has no presence in my city (Chandigarh). The modern Triumphs are not perfect either but suffer from lesser complaints than RE (in my personal experience). And the dealership/ service experience at Triumph chandigarh is excellent. Have heard many bad things about bangalore though.
(*) Spares are expensive for Triumph. I dont think Ducati would be any different.
(*) Service costs for Triumph are around 8k for the year, but if any part needs to be changed then it gets expensive quickly.

The above points might incline you towards RE among these options. However you said that you would like to keep this bike for a very long time. In my humble opinion, the RE falls short here, simply because it lacks that desirability factor. To me it feels like built on a budget. If I had to keep a bike for a long time, it should have the wow factor. I had booked the Interceptor back in 2018 but a test ride failed to convince me.

In my opinion, you should look beyond these three bikes considering your requirements.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by gigatech2006

I'm an audio/hifi enthusiast and I recommend gears for my friends. I always highlight the law of 'diminishing returns' in hifi when they purchase amplifiers and speakers. Looks like the 650 vs the rest is a great visceral example of the law in action.

This is very true for bigger motorcycles in the Indian context, especially the sportier ones. Given the constraints of our courage, the roads, the idiots driving on the wrong side etc, the scenario becomes more bleak as you up the price chain.

Its not like you cant enjoy a bigger bike at all. Its just that you cant fully enjoy these bigger bikes fully and safely on our roads.

Originally Posted by gigatech2006

This is something I couldn't get to do on the 535. On my STD 350 the max I've done is 400kms a day and so having that as the safe ceiling. I don't know...may be I can do more on the Interceptor, Ducati or Triumph. I kinda liked the upright sitting and rear set footpegs on the Ducati. Need to do a more comprehensive ride in the position.

On the 535, I think it might have to do with your seating position. The symptoms that you have described, sound exactly like what would arise from improper positioning.

Originally Posted by gigatech2006

This is spot on. I've always thought of this angle so many times, and every time I do, I lean towards the INT/GT 650. Not sure I will like the INT more than the GT and also felt that way when I test rode them back to back 3 years ago.

Try and ride all the bikes once more and try to look at them with a clear lens. If you can wait a bit, I would suggest that you wait till Rider Mania / EICMA 2021 and see if any of the 3 companies have some new tricks up their sleeve.

[gigatech2006]

Originally Posted by D3A

(*) The Interceptor suffers from small niggles here and there, but no major issues as such. Add to that poor service experience of many Interceptor riders on big groups like Happinessperkm. I dont know about the reliability of Ducatis since Ducati has no presence in my city (Chandigarh). The modern Triumphs are not perfect either but suffer from lesser complaints than RE (in my personal experience). And the dealership/ service experience at Triumph chandigarh is excellent. Have heard many bad things about bangalore though.

I completely agree. Been an RE customer for the past 17 years. Every time I gave the bike to them, it came back with niggles and issues. The RE company service center once returned my Bullet with an unscrewed battery terminal connection and many times with insufficient oil quantity. I don't want to list the number of issues - it's really one big laundry list. I still think of RE mechanics to be extremely incompetent. It's that bad. Not sure if it's any better now. I give my 535 to a trusted mechanic and it's been good so far. I don't know of the service quality for the Ducati or Triumph. Everything is a gamble over here.

If I go to the respective gallery pics and compare the Interceptor and the Triumph side profiles. The Triumph screams of high quality craftmanship - things, including the engine, look proportional. Maybe the Interceptor should have been built bigger! The Triumph, it's just beautiful. I've seen them side by side during one of the rides (I wasn't a part of, but same tea shop stop ) The Triumph tugs your heart. No feelings by looking at the interceptor, though the GT does to some extent. I might be partial here since I already own the 535 - every time I park it I turn back and give it a second look.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

This is very true for bigger motorcycles in the Indian context, especially the sportier ones | ...the roads, the idiots driving on the wrong side etc, the scenario becomes more bleak as you up the price chain.

Its not like you cant enjoy a bigger bike at all. Its just that you cant fully enjoy these bigger bikes fully and safely on our roads.

One of the reasons I'm considering the Scrambler - higher ground clearance, better tires/suspension for blore roads and speedbreakers. Well, I think I will look out for sparingly used copies of the Ducati and Triumph. I still cannot fathom the 9.8 lacs on-roar for the Ducati/Street Twin. But, there's a price to pay for these machines.

[whencut86]

Originally Posted by gigatech2006

One of the reasons I'm considering the Scrambler - higher ground clearance, better tires/suspension for blore roads and speedbreakers. Well, I think I will look out for sparingly used copies of the Ducati and Triumph. I still cannot fathom the 9.8 lacs on-roar for the Ducati/Street Twin. But, there's a price to pay for these machines.

Personally, the Scrambler is drool worthy bike but it ends there. The dreaded Desmo service at every 30K kms will set you back by 50-60K easily. Around the 30K mark you may end up replacing some parts as well and that service will end up costing around 80K with parts replacement also factored in. It is one expensive bike to maintain and expensive is an understatement here. The Scrambler with its air cooled engine is going to be tough for daily commute as well since it heats up pretty quickly in traffic and diverts air to the rider's legs.

The parts availability maybe a concern with the Ducati and Triumph but may not be an issue with the RE. There are horror stories on this very forum when it comes to Bangalore Triumph's service center. So RE and Ducati service centers in Bangalore should be better than Triumph Bangalore anyday.

Please also factor in the wearable parts replacement costs and the RE is the cheaper to maintain of the three. The tires wear out quickly on both the ST and Scrambler say around every 12K-15K kms and will cost a bomb to replace as well. The RE twins have a much better quality compared to the other RE bikes but all 3 bikes will need modification for touring. You can even convert the Interceptor into a Scrambler with a lakh or two more and plenty of ideas available on that with information on where to source parts. Of the 3 bikes ST wins when it comes to build quality and it is in a league of its own.

Why not try and see if you can get a well maintained used Street Twin.

I understand that you are looking for an upright riding position in your bike and want to hold on to one for a lot many years. If you can afford one, please do consider the CB650R as well. It is pricey but the suspension and build quality is top notch and you can hold onto that inline 4 for 10-15 years easily since that engine is built to last. The CBR650R is sold out in Bangalore but the CB650R can be booked and there are many luggage options and windscreen options in the market for this bike.

But the cheapest options for luggage, windscreen and protection will always be available for the RE twins since they are locally made by many good aftermarket manufacturers.

[Maverick_4662]

Since you are looking for a do it all bike , may I recommend and adventure tourer? A KTM 390 Adventure or a Tiger 850sport if your budget allows. Although it's very very hard to argue with the looks+value+ that eargasmic exhaust note of the 650s. Very little electronics means it should last much much longer too.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by gigatech2006

The Triumph tugs your heart.

They sure do. Its the closest to our Enfields in terms of character. Build quality is poles apart. Honestly; there is no comparison.

I was looking at a T120 several years ago. Lost my job and with that went down the plan to buy one. Relocated to kiwi land and lived without a bike for 3 years. I did not have a two wheeler license either. I will be out with my family in our car and I would see all these bikers on the road. It was sad. It was only late last year that I managed to get my learners license (Limited to 650cc). The plan was to buy the Enfield 500 Trials as I loved the red frame and chrome bits. Fm tharian suggested I look at the Interceptor instead as it will be something different. Went to the motorcycle store, sat on the Interceptor and decided this was it. There were several Triumphs standing next to the Interceptor. Beautiful machines and attention to detail is on another level. At a shade over 2x the asking price of the Interceptor, it was out of reach. I also had the license limitation for engine capacity.

This won't apply to India. The nice thing about motorcycle show rooms in New Zealand is that they are all multi brand outlets. You will find 10 different brand of motorcycles under one roof and you can try them all. In the process of window shopping, the one interesting alternative was the Suzuki V-Strom 650A (A for Alloys. XA spoked). It was tempting because the price of the bike was just 1lac over the Interceptor! 5.5lacs for the RE :-). It was a no brainer. Nice high stance, super comfortable seats, a tractable V engine, built solid and its Suzuki. It ain't ever going to break. Then I thought to myself, that is not the kind of bike I am after. I wanted something that is closer to my old Enfield.