[kryogesh]

Over the last many years I’ve been using 600cc bike and now want to upgrade to litre class. My liking has always been over the ZX10R. When I almost decided to by the honeycomb edition, I learnt that 2021 would bring in an updated ZX10R. I waited and I was thoroughly disappointed with its rather ugly face and not to forget the lame tft screen. Other useful updates on the bike didn’t impress me enough to ignore it’s face!

Now, after lot of deliberation, I’m thinking of buying a used honeycomb edition. There are a few in the market with few 000’s on the odo, albeit a bit steeply priced.
Many of these are registered in HR, WB, HP...

Dealers/ individuals are suggesting not to register in Karnataka (where I belong) to avoid re-registration charges. They are proposing to make an agreement on stamp paper detailing all the liabilities / responsiblities. All though no one is insisting on this, and are ready to provide NOC.

My questions:

Option 1: retain the existing number (say WB registration)
1. Does retaining old registration make sense? What risks am I looking at?
2. Do I then need to get some address in WB for ownership transfer?
3. In this case, NOC isn’t needed I suppose. So if the previous owner has done some offence, will I be impacted?
4. Any hassles related to insurance renewal and claims?
5. Will I not find it difficult in case I decide to sell the bike in future?

Option 2: re-registering in KA
1. When I transfer to KA, I assume I pay ~20% tax. Will I get back (part or full) tax from the state where the bike is currently registered? How difficult is the process?
2. On what value will the tax be calculated? Based on the ex-showroom price of the bike in 2020?
3. Will the “number of owners” be 1 or +1 over the previous value?
4. Will I be able to choose a fancy number?

These are the questions that I have. Please add any additional relavent info regarding the same. Appreciate your advice in this.
Thank you!

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by kryogesh

Dealers/ individuals are suggesting not to register in Karnataka (where I belong) to avoid re-registration charges. They are proposing to make an agreement on stamp paper detailing all the liabilities / responsiblities. All though no one is insisting on this, and are ready to provide NOC.

Would not suggest to go this way, in case of accident/theft, things will go haywire.

My questions:

Option 1: retain the existing number (say WB registration)
1. Does retaining old registration make sense? What risks am I looking at?

There are 2 ways.
a) papers remain on original owner's name
b) Bike gets transferred to your name in WB address

2. Do I then need to get some address in WB for ownership transfer?

Yes

3. In this case, NOC isn’t needed I suppose. So if the previous owner has done some offence, will I be impacted?

NOC is needed in case of change in RTO within state. If its within same RTO then also they check outstanding fines/cases etc. remember data is online accessible to them now

4. Any hassles related to insurance renewal and claims?

No until something happens to the bike

5. Will I not find it difficult in case I decide to sell the bike in future?

Yes, its going to be difficult to provide NOC to new buyer sitting remotely

Option 2: re-registering in KA
1. When I transfer to KA, I assume I pay ~20% tax. Will I get back (part or full) tax from the state where the bike is currently registered? How difficult is the process?

Yes, you get existing tax paid. Agent should be able to manage it

2. On what value will the tax be calculated? Based on the ex-showroom price of the bike in 2020?

Yes with depreciation of one year

3. Will the “number of owners” be 1 or +1 over the previous value?

Yes, it will be 1+1

4. Will I be able to choose a fancy number?

Yes. you have 2 options. Either to retain WB number or to opt for a new number

I would suggest to get the NOC and get it registered to KA for peace of mind

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by kryogesh

My questions:

Option 1: retain the existing number (say WB registration)
1. Does retaining old registration make sense? What risks am I looking at?
2. Do I then need to get some address in WB for ownership transfer?
3. In this case, NOC isn’t needed I suppose. So if the previous owner has done some offence, will I be impacted?
4. Any hassles related to insurance renewal and claims?
5. Will I not find it difficult in case I decide to sell the bike in future?

Shubhendra has answered these well. I will only reply on the last point. Years from now, being in Bangalore, you will find it much easier to sell a KA registered ZX10R than a WB registered ZX10R.

Originally Posted by kryogesh

Option 2: re-registering in KA
1. When I transfer to KA, I assume I pay ~20% tax. Will I get back (part or full) tax from the state where the bike is currently registered? How difficult is the process?
2. On what value will the tax be calculated? Based on the ex-showroom price of the bike in 2020?
3. Will the “number of owners” be 1 or +1 over the previous value?
4. Will I be able to choose a fancy number?

These are the questions that I have. Please add any additional relavent info regarding the same. Appreciate your advice in this.
Thank you!

1 and 2. You will have to pay the road tax for the years remaining on the RC. So if it is 5 year old bike and the fitness certificate is valid for 15 years, you will have to pay the road tax for 15 - 5 = 10 years on the invoice price of the bike. Once you get the payment formalities completed in your Karnataka RTO, you (or an agent) will have to approach the original RTO, submit these documents and claim a refund for the remaining 15 - 5 = 10 years of the road tax paid while purchasing the bike. Be prepared to wait and chase these agents.

Originally Posted by kryogesh

Now, after lot of deliberation, I’m thinking of buying a used honeycomb edition. There are a few in the market with few 000’s on the odo, albeit a bit steeply priced.
Many of these are registered in HR, WB, HP...

Now coming to the crux of your post. There are so many KA registered ZX10R bikes. Since you seem to be part of the riding community and own a 600cc bike, just ask around in your riding circles and garages etc to find a KA registered 10R in decent condition. By the time you pay the road tax for Karnataka, any financial benefits of buying an out of state bike will be easily nullified. And you arent looking at a super exotic litre class bike. The ZX10R is a great bike that has sold so well.

Overall, there really is no compelling reason to consider an out of state ZX10R in Karnataka.

[hserus]

Agreement on stamp paper and all are entirely waste in that the Supreme Court has decided if your name is on the RC you are liable for any hit and run or other accident that any future owner carries out if he hasn't bothered to transfer to his name.

Out of state superbikes are Bangalore cop magnets even if you pay local road tax. Change to a KA number when you register the bike.

[kryogesh]

Originally Posted by Shubhendra

Please refer my response highlighted...

Thanks for your answers.

Originally Posted by hserus

Agreement on stamp paper and all are entirely waste in that the Supreme Court has decided if ... Bangalore cop magnets even if you pay local road tax. Change to a KA number when you register the bike.

Thanks hserus.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Shubhendra has answered these well. I will only reply on the last point. Years from now, being in Bangalore, ...

Now coming to the crux of your post. There are so many KA registered ZX10R bikes. Since you seem to be part of the riding community and own a 600cc bike, just ask around in your riding circles and garages etc to find a KA registered 10R in decent condition. By the time you pay the road tax for Karnataka, any financial benefits of buying an out of state bike will be easily nullified. And you arent looking at a super exotic litre class bike. The ZX10R is a great bike that has sold so well.

Overall, there really is no compelling reason to consider an out of state ZX10R in Karnataka.

Thanks Neil.jericho. My problem is I am keen in finding a honeycomb edition, which I haven't found in Bengaluru yet. I will keep looking for it :-)

Thanks everyone for this valuable input. I feel at peace now and have tamed my excitement. Don't want to take a plunge in haste. Indeed its best that I wait patiently to find a bike locally to avoid so much of hassles.

[AtheK]

Originally Posted by kryogesh

Thanks for your answers.


Thanks Neil.jericho. My problem is I am keen in finding a honeycomb edition, which I haven't found in Bengaluru yet. I will keep looking for it :-)

I guess the current owners of zx10r also find the new face a big turn off, hence many might not be upgrading, hence the difficulty ti find the honeycomb edition. Stay patient and spread the word around, sometime you might be able to nudge someone on the fence, who was thinking of letting go of his bike.

As suggested above, try to stick to KA registered bike for peace of mind.

[BombayDragon]

I have a question on motorcycle registration and would appreciate anybody's inputs. I am considering buying an imported motorcycle from the second owner. He said its an Indian invoice bike purchased from the India dealership (not sure if he has the invoice as he is the second owner)
The problem I see is that when I look up the registration on Vahan for vehicle typpe it says that its a 2 wheeler but under make and model it says that its a mercedes SL500 which is a car model because mercedes does not make bikes. I asked the owner about this discrepancy and he said its an RTO mistake and it can be fixed when transferring the bike to my name. Is it really possible for the RTO to make a mistake like this and can it be rectified during registration transfer? How can I validate the sellers claims? Thanks in advance

[skviknaraj]

Originally Posted by BombayDragon

Is it really possible for the RTO to make a mistake like this and can it be rectified during registration transfer? How can I validate the sellers claims? Thanks in advance

Two Words : STAY AWAY.

If it can be rectified during re-registration, then it can be rectified before re-registration. Please ask him to get it rectified before you make the purchase. This seems to be a case of importing the vehicle illegally and registering under false make to avoid customs duty. This is common way to register vehicles bought way before this digitalisation. Please see previous threads on this forum where this modus operandi is mentioned. Guess the senior members will be be able to point to the exact discussion.

[doga]

Originally Posted by skviknaraj

Two Words : STAY AWAY.

If it can be rectified during re-registration, then it can be rectified before re-registration. Please ask him to get it rectified before you make the purchase. This seems to be a case of importing the vehicle illegally and registering under false make to avoid customs duty. This is common way to register vehicles bought way before this digitalisation. Please see previous threads on this forum where this modus operandi is mentioned. Guess the senior members will be be able to point to the exact discussion.

well typically it's a smaller capacity motorcycle like a 150 CC which is used as a cover up.
A Mercedes SL500 would incur much more road tax to be of any benefit one'd imagine? Of course, not recommending OP to go ahead with the purchase.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by BombayDragon

I have a question on motorcycle registration and would appreciate anybody's inputs. I am considering buying an imported motorcycle from the second owner. He said its an Indian invoice bike purchased from the India dealership (not sure if he has the invoice as he is the second owner)
The problem I see is that when I look up the registration on Vahan for vehicle typpe it says that its a 2 wheeler but under make and model it says that its a mercedes SL500 which is a car model because mercedes does not make bikes. I asked the owner about this discrepancy and he said its an RTO mistake and it can be fixed when transferring the bike to my name. Is it really possible for the RTO to make a mistake like this and can it be rectified during registration transfer? How can I validate the sellers claims? Thanks in advance

BombayDragon, first of all, which is the bike that you are looking at? What is the year of registration? Which dealership was the bike purchase from? Those are crucial details which are missing in your post. Without that, the help that we can extend is quite limited.

Secondly, if the owner claims that the name on the RC can be easily rectified, ask him to do it first, only then will you be willing to pay an advance. Until then, keep your money in your pocket.

[BombayDragon]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

BombayDragon, first of all, which is the bike that you are looking at? What is the year of registration? Which dealership was the bike purchase from? Those are crucial details which are missing in your post. Without that, the help that we can extend is quite limited.

Secondly, if the owner claims that the name on the RC can be easily rectified, ask him to do it first, only then will you be willing to pay an advance. Until then, keep your money in your pocket.

Thanks Neil. The bike is a 2011 registered Ducati and the seller claims he has owned the bike for 5 years. It is a Pune registered bike as per Vahan website. He said it's an indian invoice bike but the conversation never progressed to the stage where I asked for more details about the dealership because I got immediate red flags when I saw it registered as a 2 wheeler but the make and model shows Mercedes SL500. Also its been on sale for a long time and nobody is buying it, so I am guessing others noticed the same red flags.

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by BombayDragon

Thanks Neil. The bike is a 2011 registered Ducati

What model is it? 2011 registered is precision motors imported Ducati.

Let me know model and I can tell you if the bike is kosher or there is some shady stuff going on.

[VellVector]

Originally Posted by kryogesh

Dealers/ individuals are suggesting not to register in Karnataka (where I belong) to avoid re-registration charges. They are proposing to make an agreement on stamp paper detailing all the liabilities / responsiblities. All though no one is insisting on this, and are ready to provide NOC.

Ask the dealers how the registration can be transferred to your name in the state where the bike is registered. Once this is done, then you should have no issues with insurance or other statutory problems since you are the registered owner of the vehicle.

The risk of getting caught by the local KA RTO will always be there but it really isn't a big issue.

[BombayDragon]

Originally Posted by no_fear

What model is it? 2011 registered is precision motors imported Ducati.

Let me know model and I can tell you if the bike is kosher or there is some shady stuff going on.

Hi Neil - Its a Ducati Monster - Actually I stopped following up with the seller once I saw the issue with the registration on Vahan. The seller is a private seller not a dealer but the thing I cant understand is why would he not change the name from ercedes sl 500 to Ducati on the registration if he had the bike for 5 years. In fact after I pointed this issue out to him, he blurred the registration number on the bike photo which was even more suspicious to me. I wasn't sure if it was an insurance write off / wrecked or stolen bike.

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by BombayDragon

The seller is a private seller not a dealer but the thing I cant understand is why would he not change the name from ercedes sl 500 to Ducati on the registration if he had the bike for 5 years.....I wasn't sure if it was an insurance write off / wrecked or stolen bike.

I can guess what has happened here.

Back in 2011- 12, when Precision Motor was the authorized dealer to import Ducati into India, the proprietor was charged with embezzlement and fraud. You can look up this news on google search - the cases against him are still ongoing.

He had defaulted on customers' payments, and as a result a consignment of Ducati bikes, was seized by Mumbai port customs. The bikes sat for about 14 months, and then mysteriously vanished.

The prevailing theory is that $$ changed hands and the bikes were sold off. However as they did not officially clear customs since there is no emissions certificate + customs sign off, the bikes cannot be road registered using the VIN / chassis number.

So people used jugaad to add these bikes under car registration. What you have discovered is one of these cases. The registration cannot be transferred as there is no official import or registration paper for these bikes.

Under Indian law and bureaucracy, these bikes don't exist. The bike is not accidental / insurance write off, but one of those that disappeared from Mumbai port 10 years ago.

This is just a conjecture, but I am quite certain this is the correct one as I know of a few cases like this.

Without seeing the bike physically, I cannot tell you the condition, but the older desmo engines need timing belt changes every 2 years. Has the previous owner done regular servicing?