[mpulztrack3r]

Hi All, after a decade long pause, I'm very excited about getting back into riding. I have been looking at buying a Triumph Speed Twin for a while now. When I first started looking I hadn't realized it was no longer on sale in India I then started looking at the used bike market and to my surprise, there weren't many (or any ) Spoke to a few friends and also someone at Keerthi Triumph here in Bangalore. Turns out not more 60 bikes were sold (from Keerthi).
But no one could really explain why that is. The Speed Twin is obviously a smash hit around the world with rave reviews. Pricing wise it wasn't bad at all for what it is (1200cc category). So what really happened?
I hear that due to the low numbers in 2019-20, Triumph is not keen on a BS-6 upgrade, and the Speed Twin wont be seen in India anytime soon. This is weird too considering BS-6 compliant 1200cc Scrambler, Bonne T120 have all made it to the Indian market. Isn't Speed Twin essentially the same engine with a different tune? What's going on here really?

[BANDHAV]

Two reasons = Royal Enfield 650 twins.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by mpulztrack3r

Hi

So what really happened?
I hear that due to the low numbers in 2019-20, Triumph is not keen on a BS-6 upgrade, and the Speed Twin wont be seen in India anytime soon. This is weird too considering BS-6 compliant 1200cc Scrambler, Bonne T120 have all made it to the Indian market. Isn't Speed Twin essentially the same engine with a different tune? What's going on here really?

Beats me. I can only think of price as the reason but then it should at least have had a comparable market to the T 100/120. Fact is this segment (Bonnie range) is already overpriced and the higher end variants have always therefore done lower numbers. But the speed twin to me represented the best of all worlds. Street Twin looks with the powerful T120 engine. The only thing I can think of is its so niche a segment that TI does not want to put too many models that cross cannibalise.

Originally Posted by BANDHAV

Royal Enfield 650 twins.

I dont really agree there. The RE 650 will cannibalise whatever it has to of the Street Twin. The Speed Twin, not as much I feel as it makes the differentiation even wider. If anything a Speed Twin is more likely to either get cannibalised by the Street Twin (price) or by the T120 / 100 (for those who prefer the slightly more retro look / spoke wheels etc of those models).

[mpulztrack3r]

I wonder whether its a marketing issue. The Bonnevilles have history so theres plenty of awareness. Speed Twin, when it was launched here in India, was a new product with little to no awareness. Wonder if thats why people passed on it. Street Twin was already a decent package and the differentiation was not clear enough?
If this is the case I wonder whether things have changed since 2019. Especially with all the press coverage and marketing worldwide since then. If there's a business case for 1200 Scrambler there must be one for the Speedy!

[TheVaas]

Originally Posted by mpulztrack3r

What's going on here really?

Global reviews don't matter because end of the day, it's what the sales person WANTS to sell to you. From what I know, every Triumph model has a specific commission rate for the sales guy - so don't be surprised when you walk into Triumph wanting a Scrambler 1200 but instead book the T100.

In my personal experience, the Speed Twin and Scrambler 1200 were/are actually more VFM than the other models. I was ready to book the BS4 Scrambler 1200 right away, but the sales person was hesitant giving reasons like "Gets too hot, Company has stopped production, this piece is already sold etc". and instead was asking me to check the Classic or the ADV range. I ended up with the Tiger XRX - but my heart still skips a beat when I see the 1200 at the ASC. Same with my friend who wanted to go for the Speed Twin - "heat is unbearable". When you see the "Year end sales graph" that is shared on this forum, you'll see that the classic range is the highest sold because that's where the commission is higher.

I figured it's it's also got to do with a balanced mix of your own stubborness and dealership's willingness - to get what you want! Sadly.

[neil.jericho]

mpulztrack3r, welcome to the forum. You bring up a really good question. On paper, the Speed Twin was a lovely motorcycle but its sales in India never really took off. Ive always thought of it as being both a sensible gentleman's superbike and a gentleman's sensible superbike. Reviews from the international media were very positive but I dont know of anyone who has bought it in India and Ive never seen one come up in the preowned market.

I can think of a few reasons as to why it didnt click in India.
- Existing Bonnie / Street Twin owners would likely look to upgrade something well established like a T120 if they wanted to stick to the retro segment. Or they would hop segments and buy a Street Triple or a Tiger 800.
- Owners of Street Triples have been upgrading to litre class nakeds (Z1000, Tuono etc) or adventure bikes (the Tiger 800 being a firm favourite). Its difficult to find a Street Triple owner going to something classic like a T120 or a Speed Twin.
- Net net, it was difficult to find Triumph owners upgrading to the Speed Twin during its short run in India.
- Being a recent launch , the Speed Twin never had the brand recall of Triumphs other products. I dont think it ever caught the imagination of non Triumph owners either. Not all big bike owners have the time or the inclination to follow every international launch and track how good each bike is. A lot of interest in upgrades comes from spotting a particular bike during a Sunday morning bike ride or finding that someone in your riding circles has picked up one. If nobody bought it in the first place, how would other riders know that such a nice bike was launched in our market?
- For those who knew about the bike, it got the tag of being a flopped bike. No sales today = no resale value 3 years from now. Financially, it made a lot more sense to go with the T100 / T120 instead.
- There was some discount being offered on the Speed Twins to get them off dealership floors before BS6 hit but the actual discounts were paltry and it felt as though it was a discount for the sake of being called a discount. Poor decision making from TI and their dealerships.
- As Axe77 rightly pointed out, in a Triumph showroom it fell in no mans land.
- Triumph India dispatched an average of 75 units per month for the last 6 months. So overall TI sales havent been stellar either. If you anyways arent getting potential customers to walk into your dealership, its going to be really tough to sell a sensible motorcycle like the Speed Twin.
- Overall, Triumph India has far too many models and variants and way too little sales. I honestly dont know how their dealers are happy. If I look at their website, TI currently sells the

• - Trident 660,
• - Street Twin,
• - Street Twin Gold Line,
• - Street Scrambler,
• - Street Scrambler Sandstorm Limited Edition,
• - Bonnie T100,
• - Bonnie T120,
• - Bonnie T120 Black,
• - Bonnie Speedmaster,
• - Bonnie Bobber (coming soon)
• - Scrambler 1200 McQueen Edition (coming soon)
• - Tiger 850 Sport,
• - Tiger 900 GT,
• - Tiger 900 Rally,
• - Tiger 900 Rally Pro (I thought this was discontinued but its still listed)
• - Street Triple R (S was recently discontinued),
• - Street Triple RS,
• - Speed Triple 1200 RS,
• - Rocket III R,
• - Rocket III R Triple Black,
• - Rocket III GT,
• - Rocket III GT Triple Black

- With 22 combinations of model + variants in a TI showroom and a lowly 75 dispatches per month, the Speed Twin was destined to die an unfortunate but natural death.

[dinu2506]

Was always a bike I secretly wished having. Having owned (and still owning) the air cooled Bonneville A3, I thought this was one bike I might upgrade to. But, at my age and riding skills, I thought the air cooled Bonnie was meeting all my needs that also includes mod-friendliness. So, never really moved forward with that thought. But, yes, the Speed Twin was always a bike I loved. A typical wolf in sheep's clothing

[mpulztrack3r]

Originally Posted by TheVaas

I was ready to book the BS4 Scrambler 1200 right away, but the sales person was hesitant giving reasons like "Gets too hot, Company has stopped production, this piece is already sold etc". and instead was asking me to check the Classic or the ADV range.

I figured it's it's also got to do with a balanced mix of your own stubborness and dealership's willingness - to get what you want! Sadly.

This is so true! Didn't know this at the time but could feel that the sales guys are incentivized something like this.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- With 22 combinations of model + variants in a TI showroom and a lowly 75 dispatches per month, the Speed Twin was destined to die an unfortunate but natural death.

Thanks Neil! This makes a lot sense (sadly )

[GTM]

Tbh, this was a bike that completely flew under my radar, owing to all the wrong reasons. I'd read Autocar India's short review on this bike and had completely forgotten that such a bike exists . The only Speed Twin I've seen till date is Bhpian Motorotor's. Sad that such a great bike never received the attention it deserved.

[mpulztrack3r]

Thanks for sharing this GTM! How many Speed Twin owners are there here I wonder!? I haven't seen an ownership review either. If any of you guys reading this have a Speed Twin would love to hear your experience so far!

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by mpulztrack3r

Spoke to a few friends and also someone at Keerthi Triumph here in Bangalore. Turns out not more 60 bikes were sold (from Keerthi).

I went back and looked at the dispatch numbers for the Speed Twin. The bike was launched in India in April 2019. It got discontinued in April 2020. From the SIAM data reported in our sales threads, we can see that Triumph dispatched only 75 units of the Speed Twin. This would include test ride bikes for dealerships. So the number of only 60 bikes being sold across the country seems about right.

If you must have a Triumph, then the company makes a lot of other good bikes. If I were you, I would not hold my breath for a new or used Speed Twin. If you do find one, its going to be a depreciation disaster down the road. Sadly, Some of these beauties are best enjoyed on Youtube.

44 Teeth

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I went back and looked at the dispatch numbers for the Speed Twin.

@neil.jericho - the SIAM report you got for Triumph, is there any link for it? Appreciate if its possible to read the details. Curiously, is there any similar reports for Ducati?

I heard from the Triumph dealer that for the BS4 / BS 6 conversion, bike makers had to pay something like 100k USD per model to the Indian government for the certification tests. For the slower selling units, this was deemed unprofitable so they discontinued models like the Speed Twin. This is just anecdote and I did not see any verified reports.

[mpulztrack3r]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Sadly, Some of these beauties are best enjoyed on Youtube.

That list is pretty long already

*Adds it to the list after R Nine T*

[ballfry]

Early 2020, I was lucky enough to find what i think is/was the last Speed Twin for sale in India sitting at Triumph Pune.

Price was right owing to the fact that it was a MY 19 Demo/Display bike, so went ahead and pulled the trigger.

Loving the experience from day one. As a Family member with an F850 GS puts it, "It's a bonnie on cocaine".

Sharing some pictures

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by no_fear

@neil.jericho - the SIAM report you got for Triumph, is there any link for it? Appreciate if its possible to read the details. Curiously, is there any similar reports for Ducati?

no_fear, the SIAM dispatches are collated by AutoPunditz and the numbers are reported on our monthly sales threads which are very put up by a4anurag. Like this one (March 2021: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis). Ducati doesnt disclose their sales breakup or total sales to SIAM. I think the only way to figure out the rough breakup of the Ducati sales by model, is by trawling the interwebs and piecing together the little nuggets of information.

Originally Posted by no_fear

I heard from the Triumph dealer that for the BS4 / BS 6 conversion, bike makers had to pay something like 100k USD per model to the Indian government for the certification tests. For the slower selling units, this was deemed unprofitable so they discontinued models like the Speed Twin. This is just anecdote and I did not see any verified reports.

I dont know if existing motorcycles needed ARAI homologation for the shift from BS4 to BS6. I would assume that homologation costs for a new launch might run into a couple of lakhs (INR) at most. Just a rough guess with no scientific basis.

Originally Posted by mpulztrack3r

That list is pretty long already

*Adds it to the list after R Nine T*

A fellow TBHPian mentioned that he knows someone in Bangalore who owns a Speed Twin and might be planning on selling it. So maybe your thread has unlocked a few hidden doors I will let you know if that bike comes up for sale.

Originally Posted by ballfry

Loving the experience from day one. As a Family member with an F850 GS puts it, "It's a bonnie on cocaine".

Congratulations! Do share some more feedback on this lovely bike when you get a chance.