[jaysmokesleaves]

Nice discussion going on.
Both buyers and sellers have their view points and Ive been both buyer and a seller.
Ive bought "clean" used vehicles and sold "clean" ones too.

Clean bike - what constitutes a clean vehicle?
Low kms, well ridden and maintained, accidents free, pampered, etc.

Its one thing to look for a good deal, but buyers who dont know how to value a "clean" vehicle isnt a new thing and a sad truth. They (buyers) use all kinds of logic.
Depreciation - the bike depreciates so it qualifies for their lowball offer.

Well, right now i have a 2019 Vstrom 650 for sale, done 17.5k kms. Extremely well maintained and taken care of, ppf coated, sparingly used, got brand new tires, brake pads and all the crash guard kit, etc, etc. My asking price 7.75 lakhs. I've got lowball offers using the depreciation argument.

My logic is simple, go and buy a new bike for 10.5+ and then spend another 1 lakh to add the same branded accessories ive installed. Why waste the buyers time trying lowballing stunts!

For depreciation hunters i would say, please go and try buying a "clean" used Fortuner, any model.
Atleast see what the market has to offer. If and when you find a "clean" one, dont be shocked by the sellers price.

"Clean" - does not qualify for depreciation. It can qualify for age.
Some buyers lowball with cash offers. Another sad truth - but a clear hint for a seller to steer away.
Some buyers make cheap cash offers without even seeing the vehicle, behaving as if they are saving the seller from bankruptcy.

A preowned vehicle is a sum of all parts including the accessories installed. Some buyers say - i dont want the accessories so im quoting a low price minus the accessories.
Most big bike accessories are specific to the bike. Does the buyer expect the seller to spend time selling accessories separately?
Ha ha. Try your luck and endless wait, till some seller gets bored and relents. Most sellers wont, unless desperate to sell. "Clean" vehicles are usually not sold out of desperation.

Sellers emotions - in my own case, as a seller, ive no emotions attached to the bike. I own the bike simply because i like fuss free reliability. Im selling it because i cant ride as often as i would love to.

I can quote many cases of friends with "clean" vehicles trying to sell them only to be bothered by people who just wouldnt value, or dont know how to value a "clean" vehicle.

Some quote market prices.
Sorry to burst your bubble. "Clean" vehicles are not sold at market price. Market price gets you something which will take you to the market as a seller before you know it.
Bottomline, with peanuts you get monkeys.

Happy motoring.

[Chimera]

Having been on both sides of the situation (buyer and seller) all the above posts sum up the situation well, I would like to add a few pointers of my own.

1. Given how superbikes, fuel and what not are taxed it is assumed that the govt considers these items as a luxury. Owing to the short supply and high barriers to entry to purchase a superbike, the pool of bikes available for sale are limited at any point of time.

2. Further accentuating the problem is that most superbike owners fail to take into consideration the amount of upkeep these machines need and overestimate their use (you cannot daily a busa or a multistrada in tin factory traffic). Most of these bikes aren't shut it fill it type vehicles (they aren't like our dad's commuter bikes which fire up with a few kicks after 6 months of non usage). This leads to the next problem being lack of usage and adequate maintenance (be it at the service centre or at home).

3. Lack of usage can cause a myriad of problems such as flat spots on the tire if not placed on paddock stands, rodents chewing through wires, battery drain (which is a big issue as it's not easy to push start a litre class bike and even if the battery has a little juice left it won't be enough as the amount of energy required to turn over multiple cylinders is quite large.this is a noted issue in ducati L twins).

All of the above basically means that well maintained bikes are far and few in between. Rest of the bikes get sold regardless due to most buyers not doing their due diligence about the history and maintenance of the bike.

Best way to work around this is:

As a buyer:

1. Do your due diligence (don't get a Hayabusa and be surprised that rear tires don't last more than 10-15000 km due to the insane torque doled out by the engine.)

2. Shortlist your prospective bikes and start figuring out general maintenance (don't get a Ducati if you cannot afford the desmo services), reliability, failure points and also about your use case scenario (don't get a diavel when you are clearly interested in mild off-roading).

3. Figure out the general market price that your particular bike is selling for. Figure out how much you are willing to spend (if your budget has a hard stop at 9 lakhs don't look for bikes selling for 12 lakhs and try to bargain, you will be setting yourself up for failure).

4. With respect to accessories - decide what accessories you actually need (for someone who rarely tours a very expensive set of pannier and top box is not a necessity, you would be better off saving that money for insurance or a set of tyres). Same works for other accessories like auxillary lights or spoked tubeless rims when you don't tour much or do a lot of trails. Now if the owner is willing to sell without the accessories great if not take a call having budget in mind. Same goes for accessorizing. As soon as you get a bike, ride it for sometime then when you realise a few weak points you can use accessories to make it better (having said that some accessories such as a crash guard should preferably be used from the start to prevent excess damage during spills).

5. Then when you find a bike that seems to be well maintained and the owner has been upfront the whole time and you are at the negotiating table, DO NOT, DO NOT haggle for the last 20-30,000. It's not a grudge match which you need to win the outcome you're looking for is to get a well maintained bike within your budget that extra money is easily saved by the fact that the bike might not have major repairs later on.

[iamahunter]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Nice discussion going on.
Clean bike - what constitutes a clean vehicle?
Low kms, well ridden and maintained, accidents free, pampered, etc.

Its one thing to look for a good deal, but buyers who dont know how to value a "clean" vehicle isnt a new thing and a sad truth. They (buyers) use all kinds of logic.
Depreciation - the bike depreciates so it qualifies for their lowball offer.

Do you intend to say there is no such thing as Depreciation for a superbike/big bike?

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Well, right now i have a 2019 Vstrom 650 for sale, done 17.5k kms. Extremely well maintained and taken care of, ppf coated, sparingly used, got brand new tires, brake pads and all the crash guard kit, etc, etc. My asking price 7.75 lakhs. I've got lowball offers using the depreciation argument.

How long have you been trying to sell the bike now?
Asking this because, Vstorm is not a bike which is in very high demand. The segment it competes in, has equally good bikes and are for comparatively lower prices. For and average tourer, they do fulfill the purpose. Over and above, the Kawasaki and Triumph service is also much better than the Suzuki's (atleast in Mumbai).

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

My logic is simple, go and buy a new bike for 10.5+ and then spend another 1 lakh to add the same branded accessories ive installed. Why waste the buyers time trying lowballing stunts!

Well, can you please clarify the logic of new bike buyer adding the same accessories that you have? Is this mandatory? One might actually not "need" those accessories, doesn't it depend on one's usage?

Simply, do you like to pay for any accessories from the showroom? Accessories which you do not need or feel are not up to your mark?
Or for example say, showroom gives you local built guards, lights, etc and charge you 50k extra, but you would want an imported one? or a customised one for your type of use? Would you not bargain or deny paying that amount?

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

For depreciation hunters i would say, please go and try buying a "clean" used Fortuner, any model.
Atleast see what the market has to offer. If and when you find a "clean" one, dont be shocked by the sellers price.

Fortuner is a vehicle in a much higher demand compared to the vstorm. A super bike is a niche vehicle and sorry but its not really comparable to a car.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

A preowned vehicle is a sum of all parts including the accessories installed. Some buyers say - i dont want the accessories so im quoting a low price minus the accessories.
Most big bike accessories are specific to the bike. Does the buyer expect the seller to spend time selling accessories separately?
Ha ha. Try your luck and endless wait, till some seller gets bored and relents. Most sellers wont, unless desperate to sell. "Clean" vehicles are usually not sold out of desperation.

Endless wait? For what?
Well, just like how a buyer is not saving the seller from bankruptcy, the seller is not making any favour by selling his bike.
A buyer actually has mutiple options, where as the seller has only one bike to sell.

Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but the 650 adv segment is growing and many bikes are easily available. And a person who's buying a big bike is usually in no hurry. A wait of couple of months is usually acceptable. Especially if he's getting a brand new piece and company warranty.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

...I can quote many cases of friends with "clean" vehicles trying to sell them only to be bothered by people who just wouldnt value, or dont know how to value a "clean" vehicle.

Some quote market prices.
Sorry to burst your bubble. "Clean" vehicles are not sold at market price. Market price gets you something which will take you to the market as a seller before you know it.
Bottomline, with peanuts you get monkeys.

If one is actually in the market to "sell" and holds a high price, then the serious buyer (I ain't talking about dealers or timepassers) do have multiple choices.
Also, the probablity of your friends getting low-ballers and are unable to sell their bikes might be because the serious buyer are steering away.

Honestly, for a first timer, buying a big bike, there are no real ways to find out the genuineness of the bike. Especially when it doesn't come with factory warranty, there is absolutely no where to fall back on.

I would pay a generous amount only in the below cases:
- I personally know the owner and his way of keep the bike is to my satisfaction.
- I am an expert(which I am not) and can find out flaws or kinks during the test-ride itself and the bike has none.
- I urgently need that exact piece for some reason.

Before we end this, can someone please clarify, what exactly qualify as "Low Balling"?

One has brought a 10.5L rupee bike for 8L with 2.5L discount (year end, norms change, any other reason).
After a couple of years one decides to sell it and puts is up for 8.5L, stating the bike is priced at 10.5L.
Now, would a 7L offer be low-ball to the seller?

[Amey Kulkarni]

Firstly, to sell any superbike, we need to understand that the preowned market is not mature as the one for cars. It requires patience, understanding, extra efforts from the sellers end and lotta luck. In an ideal situation if a superbike does not have great demand in the market, you should target a buyer who understands the bike in terms of its upkeep, accessories on the bike etc to get a fair deal; else do whatever it is a loss making proposition which has to be written off.

The resale of a superbike varies brand wise and model wise as well. Higher the demand, lesser the time and better the offers will be eg - Suzuki might have lesser demand brand wise compared to others but a Hayabusa with its legacy will move quicker than other models.

Selling a car and the market around it is a completely different ball game altogether. It simply cannot be compared to selling a superbike. Footfall is more, thus you can hold your prices if needed as a seller but with a superbike, you simply cannot do that.

Cheers
Amey

[jaysmokesleaves]

Do you intend to say there is no such thing as Depreciation for a superbike/big bike?

Please read once more. I am referring to "clean" bikes. Everything depreciates, but clean vehicles don't depreciate in the sense of a financial calculation used for depreciation.

How long have you been trying to sell the bike now?
Asking this because, V storm is not a bike which is in very high demand. The segment it competes in, has equally good bikes and are for comparatively lower prices. For and average tourer, they do fulfill the purpose. Over and above, the Kawasaki and Triumph service is also much better than the Suzuki's (atleast in Mumbai).

I've not even tried. I have not posted any ads for my bike sale anywhere, including this forum, except word of mouth. I am in no hurry to sell. I enjoy having the bike and to ride it whenever I can but not as often as I would like to. Its far far cheaper to maintain than the Kawasakis & the Triumphs.

Well, can you please clarify the logic of new bike buyer adding the same accessories that you have? Is this mandatory? One might actually not "need" those accessories, doesn't it depend on one's usage?

Selling accessories with the bike is the seller’s logic, if the seller has decided / advertised to sell the bike with all listed accessories. But, to make an offer to a seller who is selling an entire bike with all accessories listed, proves that the buyer making an offer minus accessories does not understand nor value what is on offer. If the buyer doesn't appreciate the accessories, they should choose not to make an offer. In spite of reading or seeing a bike listed with accessories and still making an offer minus the cost of accessories in what reflects immaturity of the buyer & his offer. Having said that, I feel that most buyers who have never owned big bikes before, don't understand this OR they understand this, but use it as a ploy for low balling.

Endless wait? For what?
Well, just like how a buyer is not saving the seller from bankruptcy, the seller is not making any favour by selling his bike.
A buyer actually has mutiple options, where as the seller has only one bike to sell.

Endless wait for " clean" bikes. I thought we were discussing "clean" bikes. The buyer doesn't really have many options, as has been concurred by few other posts in this thread.

And a person who's buying a big bike is usually in no hurry. A wait of couple of months is usually acceptable. Especially if he's getting a brand new piece and company warranty.

How long have you been trying to buy one and how many sellers have agreed to your logic?
Also, if someone is new to big bikes and with a budget, stretches 30-40% to buy a new bike, only to realize later that it was a mistake (wrong bike selected/ big biking isn't his thing), it will be a very expensive mistake.

Honestly, for a first timer, buying a big bike, there are no real ways to find out the genuineness of the bike. Especially when it doesn't come with factory warranty, there is absolutely no where to fall back on.

So the "clean" bike discussion doesn't apply to these buyers, as you've obviously mentioned their lack of inability to find out and value a clean bike.

I would pay a generous amount only in the below cases:
- I personally know the owner and his way of keep the bike is to my satisfaction.
- I am an expert(which I am not) and can find out flaws or kinks during the test-ride itself and the bike has none.
- I urgently need that exact piece for some reason.
Before we end this, can someone please clarify, what exactly qualify as "Low Balling"?

In the Mumbai V Strom circles, there is quite a popular low baller who quoted 5 lakhs for an ex showroom V Strom with zero kms. He probably used his depreciation theory or God knows what logic. A perfect example of a low baller & low balling. He probably must've become famous beyond Mumbai as well

[iamahunter]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Please read once more. I am referring to "clean" bikes. Everything depreciates, but clean vehicles don't depreciate in the sense of a financial calculation used for depreciation.

I am speaking from pure financials, a super bike is a super depreciating asset. Period.
Accidental piece, insurance claimed piece, even more.
You have your freedom to assume, no point in further discussion on this.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

I've not even tried. I have not posted any ads for my bike sale anywhere, including this forum, except word of mouth. I am in no hurry to sell. I enjoy having the bike and to ride it whenever I can but not as often as I would like to. Its far far cheaper to maintain than the Kawasaki's & the Triumph's.

Limiting this to a V-storm - Yes, its cheaper to maintain. But at 3L expensive than a Versys, versys is much cheaper to buy and maintain.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Selling accessories with the bike is the sellers logic, if the seller has decided / advertised to sell the bike with all listed accessories. But, to make an offer to a seller who is selling an entire bike with all accessories listed, proves that the buyer making an offer minus accessories does not understand nor value what is on offer. If the buyer doesn't appreciate the accessories, they should choose not to make an offer. In spite of reading or seeing a bike listed with accessories and still making an offer minus the cost of accessories in what reflects immaturity of the buyer & his offer. Having said that, I feel that most buyers who have never owned big bikes before, don't understand this OR they understand this, but use it as a ploy for low balling.

Most buyers who have never owned big bikes before - expect them to be immature. There are times when they are brain-washed by a fellow owner about acquiring a particular model

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Endless wait for " clean" bikes. I thought we were discussing "clean" bikes. The buyer doesn't really have many options, as has been concurred by few other posts in this thread.

Yes, I agree. But if a new Versys is available for an almost similar price of a used V-Strom, where is the endless wait?
I think this applies for bikes which do not sell well.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

How long have you been trying to buy one and how many sellers have agreed to your logic?

If you're asking my personal experience, I approached a couple of them. Some quoted exorbitant price and some were what I was expecting.
For accessories, I did experience one where the seller was ready to take off the accessories I did not need. From a buyer's perspective I was ready to pay the additional amount for the guards. Other accessories, such as aux lights, mobile chargers/holders etc, were something that I already had from my previous bike there was no point in paying extra for them.
But somehow as a first big bike, I choose, not take the risk of a used one.

Also occasionally came across a few who were quoting exorbitant prices, and wanted me to agree to their price first before I could see the bike. I found this logic very vague and steered away. Not sure if they really wanted to sell their bike or what was their mindset. Either ways, afaik they are still holding on to their bike after a year now, probably frustrated as to why none till now have agreed to their price and logic.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Also, if someone is new to big bikes and with a budget, stretches 30-40% to buy a new bike, only to realize later that it was a mistake (wrong bike selected/ big biking isn't his thing), it will be a very expensive mistake.

True, but doesn't this apply to the defined clean bike, bought above market price as well? Imagine the pain to sell it again!
How many sellers would be willing to take it back without causing a financial loss to the new buyer.

Investing huge amount in a super bike (used or new) and then immediately putting it up for sale because 'wrong bike selected/ big biking isn't his thing' sounds like an immature or not a well thought thru decision. Its better to think multiple times thoroughly before investing.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

So the "clean" bike discussion doesn't apply to these buyers, as you've obviously mentioned their lack of inability to find out and value a clean bike.

Value - its a relative term. What holds value to you might not hold value to him and vice versa.
It has a very little to do with price, which decides the deal. If the seller and buyer doesn't come to an agreement, the deal obviously wont go thru.

Honestly, I had listed my CBR without the accessories until I was pressurized by a fellow to add the accessories to the listing. I had listed it for 1.65L I think but was willing to sell it for 1.4L, and I did get an offer for 1.45L. Requested a week from the buyer, only to realize that I did need that bike for my daily use as my Unicorn was sold in that time period. Ended up apologizing and keeping the CBR.

In the future if I decide to sell it, it would be at the market price, because if I want to sell it - I want to sell it! And not just hold on to it and crib. I choose to add the accessories I want, I choose to maintain the bike in the best possible way. And this is not because I want to sell it for a higher cost, but because till its with me, its invaluable to me. This same logic applies to each of my vehicle.

To conclude from my side, "Clean" and "Value" are relative terms, they vary from person to person and have no fixed definition.

But in the end, to his own.
Cheers.

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by iamahunter

Limiting this to a V-storm - Yes, its cheaper to maintain. But at 3L expensive than a Versys, versys is much cheaper to buy and maintain..

To be fair. Most people who want a V Storm want a V Storm only and aren't looking at a Versys. The Versys is a true on road tourer as its 17 inch front wheel hampers its off road handling along with its road biased tyres. So those who want to do a fair bit of off roading under 10l the V-strom is their best bet unless they wish to buy a heavily used Tiger 800.

That's why people pay almost 3l extra for the Vstorm over the Versys

A new V Storm sells for around 11l on road and another 1l for extra accessories. So if you can save 40% off a new bike that is sparingly used then that sounds like not a bad deal. You might save a lakh or so buying a cheaper bike but if your luck is bad and it gives trouble in future its a painful experience not to mention expensive.

My friend got a cheap deal on a ninja 650 that turned out to have had a cracked frame. After a year of ownership it broke while he was riding it around in traffic. The service centre told him that his bike was definitely in an accident. The dealer had washed his hands of the matter claiming that my friend must have damaged his bike. So he had to pay a lot to get the frame fixed properly from the service center.

That's why I would always pay a little more to ensure I get a clean bike and avoid these hassles.

[TheVaas]

Since this whole discussion started with "wanting to buy a clean Z650", I had a "clean" Z650 which I sold just before the lockdown in March 2020 and man! what a traumatic experience I had.

What is 'clean Z650'?
- It was pre-owned by a known friend so I had the service history till that point.
- Serviced on time at Kawasaki SVC.
- No accidental history or parts replaced.
- 5000 kms on ODO (2k + 3k from my end)
- Basic accessories (radiator guard, aftermarket windshield, fairing spools etc.) in good condition.
- PPF coated.

But despite all this, a person who wants to buy will try to bargain vigourously / low-ball big time and/or give expert motorcycle advise. Whether it is on OLX or on biker groups or friends of friends - this 'friendly advise / negotiation' is a given. It's also the mentality that has been ingrained into our minds since childhood that there is always a 'lower price' than quoted; even if it's one rupee less it's still a victory for the buyer.

So no matter how much you polish or keep the engine refined - at the end of the day, if you have the patience to deal with such 'potential buyers and their logic' and still manage to sell at a price you can be content with, then I respect and salute you!

Bottomline: Selling a Z650 specifically - whether clean or abused / first owned or second - is a tough task / ordeal

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by iamahunter

Limiting this to a V-storm - Yes, its cheaper to maintain. But at 3L expensive than a Versys, versys is much cheaper to buy and maintain.
…….
Yes, I agree. But if a new Versys is available for an almost similar price of a used V-Strom, where is the endless wait?
I think this applies for bikes which do not sell well.

Sharing an objective opinion as a seller, please do not take it personally.

If there is a buyer who thinks like the content in the quoted section, it clearly indicates that said buyer does not understand the worth of a V-Strom 650 over a Versys 650.

A V-Strom 650 offers a completely different riding experience from a Versys 650, and it’s price reflects this added capability.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Nice discussion going on.
Both buyers and sellers have their view points and Ive been both buyer and a seller.

Hey, Jay.

Agree with every single point which you’ve presented in this post. If a buyer thinks the price of a CLEAN motorcycle is unfair, they are free to buy a new one at market prices.

As a seller, I have the below (simple) philosophy.

1. Hear every buyer out, irrespective of whether their offer sounds reasonable or not. It helps to understand their perspective.
2. Do not get frustrated/exasperated at their inability to appreciate the worth of one’s motorcycle.
3. Have time on hand while selling, and start with a fair initial price.
4. Look for a buyer that not only values the motorcycle but also interacts respectfully. End of the day, it’s not just about money.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by GoBlue

Sharing an objective opinion as a seller, please do not take it personally.

If there is a buyer who thinks like the content in the quoted section, it clearly indicates that said buyer does not understand the worth of a V-Strom 650 over a Versys 650.

A V-Strom 650 offers a completely different riding experience from a Versys 650, and it’s price reflects this added capability.

I totally agree.

There are many ADVs and sports bikes available in India at different price points and serving different purposes.

In case of ADVs, all ADVs aren't built the same. The core of each bike is different and they provide very different riding experiences and capabilities.

For example, a buyer seeking to buy a Vstrom and then going on to settle for a Versys, has probably not understood the core and capabilities of either vehicle or is knowingly making a compromise.

For anyone seeking to buy a big bike new/used, it's important to first reflect upon one's own (current) riding needs and projected (future) riding needs, expectations from the bike and understand its capabilities.
Once that knowledge is locked in, then, depending on one's budget, one can set out to buy, new or used.

When looking for used, if you have done you homework on your riding needs and figured out a bike to deliver those capabilities, then one can clear the clutter of the myriad options available, and look for a "clean" example of the same. Do some research, read up, see tons of YouTube videos of the same models being used internationally, their pros and cons, reliability, serviceability, durability, performance, etc. It will help you to understand your own needs better. It will also help you understand what is a "clean" vehicle, how to select one, how to value your selection, how to make your purchase and then enjoy it.

Conversely, what actually happens is that, folks set out looking for a bike without reflecting on their own needs and then get lost in the tons of free advice available from the fruit wala to the mechanic and everyone inbetween. Then, just like they haggle with a fruit wala, they mostly end up buying a compromise or a mistake that cant be trashed as easily as the fruits would.

There are umpteen bikers out there who set out with a dream and ended up with gaping craters in their hearts and pockets. Don't be one.

Happy motoring.

[forty6]

Apologies to the OP for turning this into a multi season soap opera, when all s/he wanted was a 10 second skippable ad.

To get the z650 of your choice, I would suggest keep looking at olx and Facebook groups. I would suggest staying away from dealers, but wouldn't hurt to just check.

Lastly I would also suggest reaching out to Kawasaki dealers and ask them about second hand bike of your choice. They do get enquiries for upgrade and probably can help you out, if you ask nicely. Leave your number if required.

Now, continuing with the second season of this soap opera that is sellers and buyers, and apologies to those who get offended post this, or find it a bit demeaning or other such miserable things, I am a bit flummoxed with all this talk about value and cutting losses and one side having less emotions than others.

Now, I used to think that majority of the people who buy bigger bikes (refraining from calling them all superbikes, because they are not, and that term is used far more than the bikes themselves) were like me, who had a photo of a supercar(Ferrari F50) growing up, started watching racing, got into bikes and then made sure they were ruined financially. For the rest of their lives.

I never thought about does this big bike makes sense or not, because honestly after CBR 250R, none of my bikes made sense. Was the ninja 650 worth 3 times that of the CBR 250R? No. Yeah the power rush was a bit better, yes, it was more comfortable if you wanted to do 600 kms in a day, but, the CBR 250R could rip its pants off on a tight and twisty road, the roads that really make your grin, the roads that make the pathetic racer in you think like it is not that pathetic after all, while keeping your chances of staying alive way higher and you wallet a bit fatter while doing such shenanigans.

A little bike, with sorted chassis and suspension is far more grin inducing than any of the big bikes. There is no use for the extra 50-100 odd hp on that road between Theog to Rampur (at least the road that was 10 years ago). Or Almora to Binsar. Or between Jaswant Garh War Memorial to Sela pass. Or actually most of the road to Tawang. In fact I would go on to claim that on a superbike, you would not dare to touch the mid to top end, if you even have an iota of sanity and love for your life. They are just that dangerous.

So, why do you buy a big bike then? Well, because as a kid you saw great racers do strange things with the bike. Because the first time you took your knee out and leaned gingerly, you felt the kiss from centripetal force was more giddying than a kiss from any human. Because of the way a bigger bike sings. Because the first time you twist the throttle of any thing with over 100 bhp, your heart wants to get out and slap you, and also simultaneously wants you to do it again. Because it is like addiction, and just like addiction, it is dangerous, yet immensely pleasurable. Because big bikes make you understand Gulzar, Kishore, Pink Floyd, Led Zep, Asha, Talat Aziz, Metallica better. Because they are the cheapest way to sort mid-life crisis. Affairs and divorces are ruinous in comparison. In short they are love.

And why would you want to put a profit/loss perspective to love? Love is supposed to cost you. Heck I would say, is it even love if it doesn't cost you?

So, I don't get this the seller has more emotion than buyers? Why are you even buying a big bike if there is any less emotion than sellers. If you haven't told yourself that you would stay away from buying new phones, eating outside, drinking, having chance to procreate, in short having a life, you need to seriously reconsider your commitment to big bikes.

And if you do, you are going to get the bike you want, rather than the deal that you need. You are going to research, find out what goes wrong, how to sort it, what to keep in mind and above all how to identify a passionate owner to buy the second hand bike from. Trust me a guy who has bought a big bike for the simple reason that it does something to him, rather than what it does to his insta profile, would have kept his bike nicely, irrespectively of the years and kms. In fact a bike that has done decent kms in decent years, is going to be a better than a barely run bike. People have a tendency to believe a bike that has done a 5k km is 5 years is wow. It is not. Standing on a paddock stand does more damage to bikes than running. People who don't run their bikes enough are least likely to change parts and consumables at the correct interval.

All this you would understand if you genuinely love biking. Because if you do, a big bike won't be the first time you have felt whatever I have described above. A big bike is a culmination of a fairly long love affair, never the beginning of it.

So, in short, be on the lookout for what you want, look for it with the tenacity and passion that is usually reserved for lovers in poems, and you will find what you are looking for. And when you do, all this, a bit more, a bit less will seem inconsequential.

I would go on to say, there are more chances some passionate owner would take a hit for a passionate buyer, than for someone who just wants a good deal. After all who better than a passionate guy to understand the plight of another one who is suffering from it.

And if all this sounds like gibberish to you, chances are you are going to waste your money. Because, yeah you will get the bike, at a price you will like, but still lose money on it. Because, getting them is one thing, riding them is another level of passion all together. And if you don't have the former, chances are you will be bothered by the heat of the engine, the running costs, the efficiency, the hard clutch, the inability to take your better half, the lack of leaves from office, the crazy city traffic, and so on and so forth, and eventually sell it, because you don't use it. So no matter what awesome deal you got, you will still lose money on it after a year or two.

So, find the one you love, and get the one you love. And as life would teach you, never be cheap in love.

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by forty6

So, in short, be on the lookout for what you want, look for it with the tenacity and passion that is usually reserved for lovers in poems, and you will find what you are looking for. And when you do, all this, a bit more, a bit less will seem inconsequential.

Very succinct and thoughtfully put. This post deserves a star in its own merit. Thank you forty6 for saying this. Not all sellers are evil villains, and not all buyers are miserly buffoons, who like Anupam Kher sucked the sugar out the fly that fell in the much loved movie Dil.

[forty6]

Thanks mate.

Hope this makes you bequeath any one of the bikes in your signature.

Also, hahahah for that Anupam Kher reference. God, we are old!

[Entsurgeon]

These days, the term "'Superbike' includes bikes across a wide price range and various styles from street bikes, trailies, cruisers faired and semi faired to adventure. Different classes have different demand supply equation and their depreciation graph differs albeit slightly. Buyers expect huge discounts on a high selling vehicle because they expect depreciation curve of a low demand vehicle. A busa wont depreciate as much as a hyosung gt 650.
Price range of used bikes at present
Apropos value, both sellers and buyers can have a reasonable idea of a bike's worth by checking not only used prices of same model but of other similar ( and dissimilar) bikes to get a general market trend.
These days most superbikes from nakeds to litre class track tools retail in range of 10 to 30 L₹ on road. Now for any used bike, I have a range worked out from my experience and here is it:
On upper range, a 10-15% depreciation on a zero mile, second owner, off the showroom floor machine like in the example mentioned in a post above.
On the lower end, for 15-17 year old bikes in running but as is condition, those which have changed dozens of hands by now would still sell for 3.5-5 lakhs. The initial batches of Striple 675, cbr650F, Z800 and some Harleys like iron and 48 have been in this range for quite some time. No matter what, a non junk, decently running bike wouldnt be valued at ₹1-1.5 L. Anything lower and dismantling and selling her as parts would make mire sense.
Below this range , one can still get the entry level big bikes like Ninja 650 and Benelli 600i as also older pre official days cbrs from mid and late 90s and some grey market remnants with dubious history.
If one is out there to buy a decently kept big bike, this is the least one should budget for. What this means is, if you are getting anything lower as a seller or cheaper as a buyer, look for red flags. Also if, as a seller, you have something on upper end or a rare but not collectible bike,expect bigger hit as there are fewer buyers.
Why so much fuss over negotitions?
1. Mathematics
A serious buyer would usually check 3 4 bikes in details on an average before buying. Expect at least 4 5 serious negotiations for a bike.

2. Because dealers
We all know too well how a bike is offered 1-2 lakh below market value and if the seller gives in, you can find same bike being offered at + 1-2 lakhs ₹ above her fair value- a gap of 4 lakhs or even more, within days of first deal. What this translates to is, prospective buyer would offer a lakh above dealers offer and expect seller to sell a lakh below fair value because 'why not'. However for a buyer,this means a full 3 lakhs below dealers asking price for same.model. But a buyer would rather leave a good bike fore small amount and go to a dubious bike that agrees to their offer. Also some buyers, now being aware of what the dealers offered ( which is a lowballed price) to owner, would try to get the bike at same low price.

3. Calender
Its already july end. Within 2 3 months we wi have year ending and resale would anyway plummet by half to 1 lakh. Why not give it to me for 30 k lesser than lose another lakh or half.
You see, approaching year ends do affect values for sure. But what I cited above is, earlier, prices dropped with change of each calender. Then they started dropping a few months before next january because ' its going to reduce by 5-10% in 2 months'. At present, buyers expect that pruce drop july august onwards because 2 months from now, it would be year end when prices start dropping.

4. Unrealistic devaluation on shortcomings or imminent upkeep expenses
A totally goner battery or tires on a 20 lakh bike at 50% depreciation should ideally mean lowering the price by 50% of tire or battery cost. But buyers often try to deduct full price of such stuffs. Imagine shaving off 50 +12k from a 7 lakh rupee used vehicle because tires and battery are to be changed immediately. Often buyers try to fit in a part of routine expense there.
5. Regional variations.
Big markets are slightly more mature than smaller cities. Coupled with re-registration expenses on state change, a seller with a bike registered in not so big state SBK-market wise may have to adjust for re- registration amount in different state. This factor often comes to play if you have something that has fewer owners and even fewer takers in whole country and chance of finding a same state buyer is less.

A note on evaluation of accessories.
Regarding accessories, theres something many people dont understand.
Some accessories are true add ons on bike bowever some are replacements. If someone has installed a 1 lakh ₹ exhaust and has taken out the 75k ₹ factory exhaust they are just adding 25k ₹ value on the bike and not full 1 lakh. Frequently some brands OEM exhaust may be more expensive than an aftermarket one and aftermarket exhaust actually reduces the bike value marginally but i doubt anyone ever pays attention to that.
Further few add ons like frame sliders, radiator guards and fork/swingarm protectors plus paddock spools are definitely must haves. Tail tidies are good to have but not existential. A seller can and should factor these costs in valuation.

I would sum up the above as "a used bike, from zero mile, 2nd owner, off the showroom floor bike to a 20 year and 2 3 generation older bike, the price would range between 20-85% of her current market price for a bike in decent running condition. A bike thats not 'Frankeinstein'.
I would break up this 20-85% range as follows-
1. A proper showroom floor zero mile bike- 85% of current OTR.
2.a. Same model year 100 to 1k run, 2 weeks to 11 months old model- 75-85%.
2b. 100 to 1k run less than 11 month old bike from last model year- 70-80%.
3. 1-3 year old, 1-5k run machine- 60-80%. Outstanding warranty will have effect upto this point.
4. 3-6 years old 3 to 15 k odo- 45-60%
5. 5-10 years old bike. 5-20k odo- 35-45%
6. 10-20 years, 1 to 3 generation older bike. Odo usually 15-40k- 20-35%.
These numbers are pretty generalised and while a buyer can get things at lower price than these, the above price range is decent for a well maintained for the age bike.
. A bike bought cheap upfront may not work out cheaper to own over long term. Take above numbers with a pinch of salt. Over half a decade ago I saw a 17L otr faired SBK with 250 km odo 6 months in, registration under process ( tax payed) change hands for 12lakhs including brokerage. Thats 30% depreciation for a 6 month and 250 km bike. Another 20 year old one is currently being asked for at 20% of current price.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by forty6

So, find the one you love, and get the one you love. And as life would teach you, never be cheap in love.

I'm desperately trying to thank this post more than once but apparently such a feature doesn't exist.

Amongst the best posts I have read on this forum - subject agnostic.