[neil.jericho]

Before I get started on the next sordid update, first a recap of the entire saga so far, all of which has been documented on this thread

- Mid September : I gave my bike for service to the Cochin dealership. I told them to replace the coolant on the bike since it was 2 1/2 years since the last change. They neglected / forgot to do so and when questioned, covered up by saying that they topped up the coolant, which they claimed was the Triumph mandated process for replacement of coolant. This turned out to be an outright lie.

- Early October : I sent an email to Triumph India (TI) to better understand some of the home grown processes followed by the Cochin dealership and the corresponding cover-ups. TI swung into action immediately and the dealership manager called me to admit to all their mistakes and apologized for the same while promising to fix everything to my satisfaction. Despite their proven dishonesty, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and decided to proceed forward on a positive note.

- Post the service, the bike started running very hot and the fan was always on. This never used to happen earlier. On just the second time that I took the bike out after the service, the coolant overheated to the extent that it burst out of the resevoir. Initial analysis from my technically inclined TBHPian friends was that the SVC did a shoddy job of topping the coolant and introduced air bubbles in the system, thereby leading to sub par cooling. Hence the fan was working overtime to compensate. The manager from Triumph agreed with this assessment when I spoke to him.

- End October : I sent the bike to the SVC to complete the pending jobs including coolant change. They kept it for a day and gave me a loaner Tiger 900 on my request. They said that they replaced the old coolant with completely new coolant and that it no longer had any air lock. From their side, it was working perfectly fine. I checked the coolant fluid colour through the resevoir and thought that it was looked different. The new coolant had a dark green colour to it as compared to the slightly brown colour that the bike had pre-September. The same day that they gave it to me, I took it out for a quick ride and wouldnt you know it, the bike started overheating and the fan was running continuously. All this within 5 minutes of starting to ride.

Fearing the worst, I turned back and headed straight to the Triumph showroom. The same manager could not explain why the fan was coming on within 5 minutes of riding but said that they had done everything right from their side. Nonetheless, he agreed to take the bike in for the team to do a proper technical investigation. I believed that they were acting in good faith and did not pressure them to finish the job quickly. I told them to take as much time as they wanted but to fix the new found overheating issues that they had introduced, once and for all. The dealership gave me the other Tiger 900 as a loaner while they worked on my bike.

With that forgettable trip down memory lane out of the way, now we move onto the latest updates.

2nd November (Monday) : The same manager updated me that they had done extensive back to back testing with another customer's 675 which had covered similar kilometers as my bike. They found that my bike actually ran cooler than the other one. As per them, everything was working perfectly fine and that the Street Triple showing 6 out of 8 bars of heat on the dash was par for course. So they were ready to return my bike, confident that nothing was wrong with it.

3rd November (Tuesday) : The service technician from the dealership brought my bike to my residence. I asked him which coolant was used and I was told that it was Triumph's HD4X official coolant. I was even shown a picture of the bottle used. I asked about the quality of the old coolant and I was shown a picture of some dirty brown fluid in a tray. I asked about the fan running continuously and was told that the bike was ridden and tested extensively over the last few days, the fan behaviour was absolutely normal as per their standards. The technician also handed me a 1 litre bottle of engine oil to compensate for the 800 ml that they supposedly used for their home grown "flushing" process that TI has never approved of. This is important because it officially completed all the obligations from the side of the dealership as part of their commitments to rectify the situation.

Fortunately, that day happened to be an extremely cloudy day with absolutely zero sun. This meant that ambient temperature would not be a deciding factor on the bike's behaviour and I could test whether all the time spent by the dealership was fruitful or not. I took the bike out on the same 100 km loop that I was on the last time that had led to the coolant overheating and bursting out. Guess what? Within 5 minutes of leaving home, the fan came on and the temperature reading was at a constant 6 bars, when pre September it used to be only 5. Anyways, I kept riding thinking that the bike would cool down once it was on the highway with very limited traffic. Guess what, the fan kept running and the temperature reading was at a constant 6 bars. I kept stopping every 15 minutes to take off my glove and check the heat from the radiator fan. It showed 6 bars all throughout the ride, the radiator was extremely hot and the fan never once went off! Fortunately, I kept taking a picture everytime I stopped so I could keep a record of this overheating.

So to summarize, on the same day that Triumph Cochin returned by bike to me saying everything was fine, the fan kept running continuously for 3 hours on a ride.

4th November (Wednesday) : I called the same manager at the Triumph dealership and updated him that the fan ran continuously for hours altogether the previous day. He admitted that it was not normal but kept reiterating that as per their investigation, everything was perfectly normal. Of course, both cannot be true, but then again, this is the same dealership that turned off the TPMS electronically, when the loaner Tiger 900 threw up a warning that the tire was underinflated, which it was by 8 PSI at both ends. I was very surprised to find that the dealership was suddenly washing its hands off the heating problem that they themselves had introduced on my bike. In hindsight, I should not have been.

They did not mention anything about checking the bike again, it was the same old statements - we tested extensively, your bike is running cooler than the other customer's bike, its perfectly normal. Realizing that they were stonewalling me for earlier escalating to Triumph India (because they lied in the first place and cheated me out of 800 ml engine oil), I said that I will change the coolant outside myself to diagnose what has gone wrong with my bike.

5th November (Thursday) : I went to my FNG to do a radiator flush and coolant replace. I was recommended Engine Ice and Motul Motocool as the top 2 options by fellow TBHPians. Seeing as Engine Ice was not readily available, I went with the Motul offering. Since it was filled to the brim, we had to pull out some of the Triumph HD4X coolant, to fill in the Liqui Moly radiator cleaner. We then ran the bike for 25 minutes on idle, flushed it and filled the Motul coolant.

Triumph HD4X coolant extracted from the radiator. Just a few days and a couple of 100 kms old. No cleaner or flushing yet.


Colour of the Triumph HD4X coolant after the flush

To say that the drained coolant looked filthy, was an understatement. But how could this be, given that it was changed at the Triumph dealership just a week back? The mechanic mentioned that the coolant used by the Triumph dealership must be of poor quality or adulterated. Even a fellow TBHPian had mentioned this possibility to me earlier when I spoke to him about the repeated overheating. I rode the bike for a few kilometers after this coolant change and it runs so much cooler now and is almost back to its pre service condition. The fan does come on and go off once in a while but it is nowhere close to the continuous fan running that is normal as per the SVC.

The nail in the coffin
I shared the above pictures of the Triumph HD4X coolant with two TBHPians. One of them runs a motorcycle garage and has worked on a lot of Triumphs. He said that the dark green colour did not look like what he has seen on other Triumph bikes. The other TBHPian also confirmed that this coolant that was poured in by the Cochin Trimph SVC was nowhere close to the actual HD4X coolant that is sold by Triumph. He had a bottle of the coolant and had kindly sent me pictures of the same, which I have posted below. As per him, the Triumph coolant should be almost transparent and is blueish green in colour (especially when viewed in daylight). However the coolant that the local dealer has poured in my bike is dark green and not transparent at all.

Actual Triumph HD4X when poured from a bottle

To say that I am livid with the local Triumph dealership, would be to put things mildly. Not only have they been caught lying again, they have deliberately put in substandard junk in my motorcycle and fraudulently claimed that it is an original Triumph product. What sort of rogue, we will continue to do what we want behaviour, is this? Does Triumph India have zero control over their dealerships?

[haneeshN]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

To say that I am livid with the local Triumph dealership, would be to put things mildly. Not only have they been caught lying again, they have deliberately put in substandard junk in my motorcycle and fraudulently claimed that it is an original Triumph product. What sort of rogue, we will continue to do what we want behaviour, is this? Does Triumph India have zero control over their dealerships?

I can't believe they claimed to fix the issue confidently without fixing it and that too after these many complaints/escalations from your end. I suspect two things could have happened here.

- They used unbranded/cheap coolant and claimed it is Triumph original
- They used the Triumph branded coolant without flushing the radiator

I think it is the latter as even a regular coolant should perform the task of circulating the heat for some time whereas in your case the fan started in five minutes. I think it is a clear case of not flushing the radiator and the coolant lines properly which lead to the excess heating. I can't understand why they cannot do this simple task effectively. This is a clear case of false claims and cheating and don't trust them anymore.

I heard Cochin dealership is better but this incident proves they are no less than others. I think you should find a reliable garage to maintain your bike in case the warranty is expired already. It's very sad to hear such stories when Triumph has a nice lineup of bikes. Get the bike fixed and spend your time riding it than running behind these people

[shan_ned]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Attachment 2076927
Triumph HD4X coolant extracted from the radiator. Just a few days and a couple of 100 kms old. No cleaner or flushing yet.

Attachment 2076926
Colour of the Triumph HD4X coolant after the flush

To say that the drained coolant looked filthy, was an understatement. But how could this be, given that it was changed at the Triumph dealership just a week back? The mechanic mentioned that the coolant used by the Triumph dealership must be of poor quality or adulterated. Even a fellow TBHPian had mentioned this possibility to me earlier when I spoke to him about the repeated overheating. I rode the bike for a few kilometers after this coolant change and it runs so much cooler now and is almost back to its pre service condition. The fan does come on and go off once in a while but it is nowhere close to the continuous fan running that is normal as per the SVC.

To say that I am livid with the local Triumph dealership, would be to put things mildly. Not only have they been caught lying again, they have deliberately put in substandard junk in my motorcycle and fraudulently claimed that it is an original Triumph product. What sort of rogue, we will continue to do what we want behaviour, is this? Does Triumph India have zero control over their dealerships?

Shocking to see the darkish coolant which is supposed be a fresh and new one. It looks terrible. To describe it mildy, the supposed to be a fresh coolant looks like the stuff flowing in the drainage gutter.

It clearly confirms that the Cochin Triumph did not replace the coolant and they did some top up with some low quality coolant. I wont be surprised if the Cochin dealer tried to sabotage your bike by adding the dirty drain water just to take revenge against you.

To put in simple words - The Cochin dealer cheated you big time even after you gave them a chance to come out clean. Testing times for Triumph customers living in Cochin and Bangalore.

Initially I was so happy when TI attended your case with priority. As the Cochin dealer did cheating and unethical business, the only way out for Triumph to save its face is to cancel the current dealership in Cochin and go for a new dealer. Of course they failed to do the same against the Bangalore dealer. If TI fails to take action against these rogue dealers, time has come for people to boycott new Triumph bikes in India.

[krishnaprasadgg]

Clearly, they did not flush the radiator or the reservoir properly. And after having the bike multiple times the result is the same.
I don't understand this, why can't they use distilled water for flushing the radiator and the reservoir clean? I used almost a complete 10L can of distilled water on my CBR which hadn't had a coolant flush in over 2 years and took me 5-6 cycles to get the radiator cleaned out and it hardly took 15 min for crying out loud, it's not even a labor-intensive task.

This looks like a case of clear stonewalling for complaining against them or they have some really hopeless technicians working for them. I don't know which is worse.

Attaching pic for comparison on how a 2-year-old coolant from my CBR looked like and how the fluid coming from the radiator after 5-6 times of flushing with distilled water looked like. Now compare that with the pics Neil just shared. Absolutely shocking is the word I can think of.

How old/used up coolant should look like


How a proper coolant flush should be done and how the fluid coming out of the radiator should look like


I'm really interested in what the TI people will have to say about this whole fiasco again.

Cheers
Krishna

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Before I get started on the next sordid update, first a recap of the entire saga so far, all of which has been documented on this thread
------
Attachment 2076927
Triumph HD4X coolant extracted from the radiator. Just a few days and a couple of 100 kms old. No cleaner or flushing yet.

When you say extracted from radiator, how did you collect this? Removing a hose and pouring it out? Or from the reservoir tank at the bottom?

Attachment 2076926
Colour of the Triumph HD4X coolant after the flush

99% they have not replaced the coolant, they just poured a lil and topped it up. For a freshly filled coolant, even if they did not do a distle water flush, so much of dark debri is clear indication that coolant was never replaced.

The mechanic mentioned that the coolant used by the Triumph dealership must be of poor quality or adulterated.

The OE one is greenish blue when inside the can. I have some, will share the pics once I reach home. Maybe ill take some pics of the coolant from the reservoir tank also, that will give an idea of how it looks after about 3000 km since a flush and replacement.

However the coolant that the local dealer has poured in my bike is dark green and not transparent at all.

Do you have some sample kept with you, when you drained before flushing? Will come in handy if they dispute later.

What sort of rogue, we will continue to do what we want behaviour, is this? Does Triumph India have zero control over their dealerships?

Always heard great things about the dealership, infact that was the plan B for my bike. Really sad to see such an update.

On a side note - I was initially in a dilemma, thought things are improving from Triumph side and should update the thread title. Seems like it is far from there for now.....

Edit uploading the original coolant from bottle.



The cap has an almost white spill stop thingy, so it is as accurate rendering of color as it can be. And look at it, its thin an light shade.

[neil.jericho]

With all my focus on the poor quality coolant poured into my motorcycle and the deliberate oversight of the subsequent symptoms by the Triumph Cochin SVC, I forgot to mention another interesting incident. After all the coolant was put in, the mechanic at my FNG noticed that the bellypan was not flush fitting as expected and he was unable to put it back properly. So he removed the parts and carefully examined them, only to find that one of the bolts was stuck to it's nut. Rather than using some effort to separate the two stuck parts and fixing the problem once and for all in a proper way, the SVC had just pushed the stuck nut and bolt in as a jugaad, which had led to the bellypan not being properly set. It took the mechanic 5 minutes of effort to separate the nut and bolt but once he did it, and tried to put everything back again, it fit properly. I forgot to take a picture of this.

So much for following the official service book and Triumph India guidelines!

Originally Posted by haneeshN

I think it is the latter as even a regular coolant should perform the task of circulating the heat for some time whereas in your case the fan started in five minutes. I think it is a clear case of not flushing the radiator and the coolant lines properly which lead to the excess heating. I can't understand why they cannot do this simple task effectively. This is a clear case of false claims and cheating and don't trust them anymore.

I heard Cochin dealership is better but this incident proves they are no less than others. I think you should find a reliable garage to maintain your bike in case the warranty is expired already. It's very sad to hear such stories when Triumph has a nice lineup of bikes. Get the bike fixed and spend your time riding it than running behind these people

haneeshN, I am confident that this whole Cochin Triumph dealership is the best / better than the others is just the eventual outcome of an echo chamber. I have given them chance after chance to rectify the situation and improve the quality of their service and do what is right. That way, despite all their missteps, they could have a positive outcome but they continue to be predisposed to dishonesty.

Maybe things were rotten all along and it took my service experience for all of this to come out in the open.

Originally Posted by shan_ned

Shocking to see the darkish coolant which is supposed be a fresh and new one. It looks terrible. To describe it mildy, the supposed to be a fresh coolant looks like the stuff flowing in the drainage gutter.

It clearly confirms that the Cochin Triumph did not replace the coolant and they did some top up with some low quality coolant. I wont be surprised if the Cochin dealer tried to sabotage your bike by adding the dirty drain water just to take revenge against you.

To put in simple words - The Cochin dealer cheated you big time even after you gave them a chance to come out clean. Testing times for Triumph customers living in Cochin and Bangalore.

shan_ned, to be honest, at first I did not pay much heed to the colour of the supposedly official Triumph HD4X coolant that was removed from the radiator. I had never seen the product before, so I didnt know what to expect. But once I got to see the pictures of the actual product from my friends, I realized that I have clearly been cheated by the Triumph dealer for a second time.

Originally Posted by shan_ned

Initially I was so happy when TI attended your case with priority. As the Cochin dealer did cheating and unethical business, the only way out for Triumph to save its face is to cancel the current dealership in Cochin and go for a new dealer. Of course they failed to do the same against the Bangalore dealer. If TI fails to take action against these rogue dealers, time has come for people to boycott new Triumph bikes in India.

At first, I too was happy that the dealer's attitude changed when Triumph India was looped in earlier. However, the moment they handed over the engine oil and on paper, claimed that they had done everything they had agreed to do, the dealership's attitude took a sharp u-turn. It looks as though Triumph India has scant control over its dealerships and we customers are left to the mercy and good/ill will of these local fiefdoms errr showrooms.

That said, I will write to Triumph India and update them on these developments. I hope that they understand the gravity of these malpractices from their errant dealers and grasp how they are going to lose sales due to the repeated dishonesty showcased by some of their dealers.

As things stand, I cannot recommend any Triumph motorcycle to enthusiasts based out of Kerala, unless they are willing to take it elsewhere and get it serviced.

Originally Posted by krishnaprasadgg

This looks like a case of clear stonewalling for complaining against them or they have some really hopeless technicians working for them. I don't know which is worse.

Thanks for sharing the pics krishnaprasadgg. I think you have summed up the situation perfectly. I tend to believe that it has descended into an ego issue for the dealership staff now and they have deliberately poured this junk into my motorcycle's radiator. I cannot believe that they are so incompetent that they cannot identify the fan always on issue when I have already told them about it repeatedly. Even an entry level trainee can see the symptoms that I pointed out were correct.

So far I have only caught the dirty coolant. I dont know what else they could have done to my bike to teach me a lesson.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

The OE one is greenish blue when inside the can. I have some, will share the pics once I reach home. Maybe ill take some pics of the coolant from the reservoir tank also, that will give an idea of how it looks after about 3000 km since a flush and replacement.

Do you have some sample kept with you, when you drained before flushing? Will come in handy if they dispute later.

Jaggu, only because you asked this question did I realize that it would be in my best interest to keep a sample of the dirty coolant poured by the Triumph Cochin dealership. Fortunately, the mechanic had kept it aside and I have collected a sample. Thanks for that question and thanks for sharing pictures of the original coolant as well.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

The cap has an almost white spill stop thingy, so it is as accurate rendering of color as it can be. And look at it, its thin an light shade.

Now compare what you sent to the collected sample that I have with me now. For the benefit of everyone reading this, I have to stress, this is the coolant that the dealership poured into my bike a few days ago and said that it was original Triumph HD4X coolant. This is nowhere close to the picture that Jaggu posted or the one that I shared earlier.

No wonder the fan was always running!

Originally Posted by Jaggu

On a side note - I was initially in a dilemma, thought things are improving from Triumph side and should update the thread title. Seems like it is far from there for now.....

Triumph India has an embarrassingly long way to go before this thread can be closed for good.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

.
Now compare what you sent to the collected sample that I have with me now. For the benefit of everyone reading this, I have to stress, this is the coolant that the dealership poured into my bike a few days ago and said that it was original Triumph HD4X coolant. This is nowhere close to the picture that Jaggu posted or the one that I shared earlier.

No wonder the fan was always running!

Attachment 2077118

Attachment 2077119

After seeing the images am pretty sure they have not drained and refilled. They have just tried topping up. Look at the bottom of the bottle, it has similar colour but mixed with the gunk of 2 year old fluids, it’s nowhere close to a fresh refill. These coolants really are not designed for high stress environment of India. Best is to replace fully and do through flush with distilled water like most of us do, before refilling.

[GTO]

Neil, thanks for sharing. Moving your post to a new thread to warn other Triumph owners. Such outright fraud deserves to be highlighted. Will be going to our homepage too .

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I told them to replace the coolant on the bike since it was 2 1/2 years since the last change.

they topped up the coolant, which they claimed was the Triumph mandated process for replacement of coolant.

On just the second time that I took the bike out after the service, the coolant overheated to the extent that it burst out of the reservoir.

H-OAT coolant has a long drain interval and I am surprised why the change was required so soon viz.2.5 years.

What they seem to have done is to remove some of the OE coolant and put some normal water and a little glycol based green coolant inside just for the colour.

H-OAT and other regular glycol based coolants don't go well together.

Even with only water inside, the engine should not overheat the way you've described unless, of course:

1. the air hasn't been bled out properly

2. there is an issue in the radiator (fouling of the tubes or fins blocked)

I went to my FNG to do a radiator flush and coolant replace. I was recommended Engine Ice and Motul Motocool as the top 2 options

To say that the drained coolant looked filthy, was an understatement.

I rode the bike for a few kilometers after this coolant change and it runs so much cooler now and is almost back to its pre service condition. The fan does come on and go off once in a while but it is nowhere close to the continuous fan running

The flush yielded filth - and this filth is typically there whenever any reservoir which primarily has water with minerals and salts is emptied out.

As an example, you'd have seen such things happen even when the overhead tank in your residence is emptied out OR when the outlet valve from the tank is shut and the water supply line emptied for, say, a tap replacement.

Recharge the line and see how mucky the water is for the first few minutes.

What sort of rogue, we will continue to do what we want behaviour, is this? Does Triumph India have zero control over their dealerships

That is the sad state of most dealerships in India today; they think they can get away with doing anything they want.

So much about those who are obsessed with service records than real service.

[pandabear]

Just horrified to what lengths they have gone. Not sure it's the dealer or the technician trying to teach you a lesson. If it were the dealership trying to teach you a lesson that would be the most stupid thing to do considering the amount of lost business. Looks like it was a case of ego, rather than the price of the coolant. Thanks for posting it here.

[sgmuser]

It is very surprising how a brand can be destroyed by the dealers and their behaviour. We know there are many cases previously but the dealer's attitude simply destroys the confidence one has on the product/company, because the company should have processes to make sure these things do not happen in the dealership levels. Will Triumph care to fix this quietly or punish them with some other measures? I do not think so. They might send a simple warning email and case closed Whey Ethics is the last thing in Automobile industry? Or it is just me?

[ads295]

Being an SBK owner myself (Kawasaki ER-6n) I'm cynical about company service centers by default. It's ironical that I am so content with the Suzuki SVC that does my Access 125 but would not trust Kawasaki Ahmedabad with even an oil change, but here's the thing:

"Plebeian" vehicles such as scooters are a dime a dozen and often owned by middle class families that are very particular about how much is spent on vehicle maintenance. Thus these SVCs are almost always on their toes when they suggest a repair be carried out on their vehicle (of course this may not be the norm, just my ₹0.02)

By contrast, SBK service centers usually have less active mechanics; I'm not saying they aren't competent (although by all means they may not be) but they are surely more idle than a scooter service center which almost resembles a production line.

SBK owners are also a lot more carefree with their money because 1. they are that much more attached to the vehicle and 2. They can afford to spend ₹3-7k on a single service if they believe the work will be good.

Not everyone is technically inclined but I feel OP or any SBK owner can learn a few basics such as oil and oil/air filter change, chain tightening, brake fluid change, coolant flush etc. Yeah sure you'll need to buy a torque wrench and a Haynes manual for your vehicle (those are worth their weight in gold) but after that initial ₹5-10k expense you are basically looking at free service for the lifetime of your bike, excluding consumables. Not to mention it impresses my family to see me sitting down with rags and getting my hands dirty

I vowed never to go back to the company SVC after I caught them draining petrol from my own fuel tank to de-grease the chain.

[bigron]

Your coolant was not replaced, nor was it drained. The SC lied through their nose.

This is simply fraud. Send a legal notice asking them to explain their action threatening to pursue legally. At the same time, send an email to Triumph India explaining the dealers actions. Keep your receipts and vouchers as evidence.

[NPV]

@neil, Shocking to hear this and I can imagine all the pain you went through for something as simple as a coolant replacement on your Triumph motorcycle
Wondering what's the motive behind this ? How much did they save by not replacing/refilling coolant fully and just topping it up ?

Seriously, what are these authorised service centers up to ? Another international brand let down by their own dealer service centers in India

[chaudh2s]

Not surprising! We are a largely dishonest nation. Exceptions are few and far between. For this very reason, I always take a day off from work and stay by my car whenever/ wherever it goes for service. The service people dont like it but I love my cars way too much to leave them alone. Its not always the owner of dealership who is rogue, it can be anybody, service advisor, spare parts manager, technician. I have seen the wheels not being balanced properly, zero not reached. Have also seen topping up of brake fluid at the washing bay with water spray all around just to save time, knowing well that it is hygroscopic. Engine oil not getting changed or changing with refiltered old oil is an old trick.
Changing of in warranty car parts with about to fail part of a technicians friend car. You imagine it, and everything is done at our service centres.
Leaving your car overnight at any service centre is a recipe for disaster. Cant even imagine what pain it goes through during the night.
If you love your rides, take the effort to stay with it during service.