[Vid6639]

Although we are all BHPians, I am amused at so many people accepting and just saying this is how it is and keeping quiet all the while with this sort of service. Is it only for BMW that this is the case? When it comes to bikes, I atleast see Triumph owners ranting and when it comes to cars we bash Skoda for every service visit as well as other brands. Why are BMW bikes any different that people are actually justifying and telling moralfibre that he needs to spend a day at the service centre and get the bike serviced under his supervision and guide the mechanics on how to repair the bike. lol. This is a 20 lakh bike from BMW not some Yamaha RX100.

Does it mean that if we buy these bikes to enjoy riding that we need to not have full time jobs and learn the service manual and teach a BMW mechanic how to service the bike and oversee the work. Never knew this was the case with BMW bikes till now.

What I see is that Moralfibre has come to wits end after 5 months of struggling with dealer and BMW india and finally decided enough is enough and decided to document and share the info with other owners and prospective customers + readers so they are aware. What's even more telling is that owners are accepting that after sales is pathetic but are convincing Moralfibre that this is how it is and he needs to accept it and the issue is his expectations and him not being technical in understanding and driving the workshop mechanics. This is more surprising than the opening post that shows people are complacent and just managing with this attitude rather than calling out the dealer and brand that too the most premium there is.

It looks like only after this thread has there been some traction else Moralfibre would have to enroll in BMW workshop training course as per other owners advice and learn to repair a 20 lakh bike on his own.

[AirbusCapt]

Additional to the above, we allow some of these perceived "premium" brands to charge what they wish. How is Rs 65000 justified in repairing one broken wheel? Are they titanium plating it? It's time to call out this bullshit instead of meekly accepting the joke these brands dish out in name of customer service.

[ironshark]

Originally Posted by dkaile

But Sir, what about the time that you are now spending on all these emails and raising it on public forums? Wouldn't it have been better to have spent these 4-5 hours sitting at the dealership truing your wheel to your satisfaction and requirement? This is a common excuse I find with all premium customers, TIME! Yes, we all are busy, very busy but then passion requires devoting time to things you care deeply about.

There is no such thing as luck in these matters as I previously said. But meticulous approach and dogged persistent may get things done to your liking, otherwise these things will repeat again, be it with any premium brand.

Cheers...

With all due respect,

Premium brand or no, accepting mediocrity/dodgy after sales experiences/unfair practices and spending truck loads of time and effort under the garb of being passionate to get simple issues resolved is being part of the problem.

Highlighting the dealership's incompetence publicly post all sincere efforts to get the issues resolved such that the wider community benefits out of one's experience is a part of the solution. If the dealership wakes up from slumber, as it did in this case, it's a win win for all.

Why do I get a feeling that with this thread, folks are now even more worried about the (already bad) resale of their GSs rather than appreciating the attempt at addressing the larger issue at hand....

[himanshugoswami]

I have shared this page with the CRM at the BMW Dealership, lets see what they respond

[BunnyPunia]

Oops!
Got my 310GS home on 29th and three of my known buddies sent me this link (knowing I had invested into the brand).
Fingers double crossed.
Hope your issue irons out soon bud

[nasirkaka]

Although we are all BHPians, I am amused at so many people accepting and just saying this is how it is and keeping quiet all the while with this sort of service.

Its all starts with BMW Motarrad India who are only interested in business at the cost of customer satisfaction. This "i don't care" attitude trickles down dealers across country and there is no wonder BMW Motarrad dealers are considered one of the worst compared to other premium bike brands, when it comes to after sales experience. Plenty of cases recorded and shared over various medias. Expectations from a premium brand after paying a premium amount and 'reality' are poles apart. Moralfibre is right in expecting a pleasant experience, which is associated with such brands at subconscious level, but more often then not, Motarrad experience is far from pleasant.

Sharing a few anecdotes from my experience of being their 310gs customer and the dealer being BMW Tusker Motarrad, says a lot about their workmanship and skills:

* 1st service, i give a perfectly working bike and get back a bike with a loose nut at the triple t holding the front fork. Not as simple as it sounds, as bike was making weird noise over broken roads, and BMW refused to acknowledge any issues and only identified by Vivian the service manager for their imported bikes having experience abroad. All these incidents are well captured in detail on the 310 thread.
* 2nd service, horn was not working after receiving the bike. They washed it such that all water went inside. On pointing it out, they simply said sorry, you have installed an after market Denali horn, so we cant help. Didn't even offer to open the horn, blow some compressed air, and give it a try.
* 3rd service was painful experience where they denied warranty for failed battery, a known and common issue on the pretext that i had installed a pair of aux lights. God knows why they have given a pair of aux connectors for. The OEM lights are poor, and AUX lights on adv bike is nothing new.
* 4th, service, i give a perfectly working bike and they return me a bike with over tightened cone set. wasted half a day getting that fixed.

So this shows the expertise, workmanship and skills of the mechanics they have. They are too heavily dependent on tech and think plugging the bike to a computer will fix all mechanical issues on the bike. I have lost all faith and will be getting my bike service outside from next time.

As for owners accepting and saying this is how it is when it comes to BMW, atleast we, the 310 riders (having some strength in number) did protest in out own way, especially when the prices were dropped initially. a lot of mails were signed by 100 plus riders and send to one and all, and we tried getting it published on social media as well. Issue is that BMW India and dealers are so thick skinned, nothing seems to affect them.

In Bangalore, if you want to give you bike to BMW for a general service, the minimum you will have to wait for 15 days. Who waits for 15 days for a service appointment these days. For a battery and alternator change, the minimum time is 3 weeks. Alternator being a faulty area, there never was a recall to fix it on all bikes, and riders end up getting stuck in the middle of rides.There is hardly ever any stock of spare. Even the regular fast moving parts like a handlebar, levers, pegs, are never in stock. A spark plug costs Rs. 500/- and to screw in on bike, they charge an additional labour of Rs. 1150/-. Total Madness.
Sad to see some good products being murdered like this.

[coriollis]

Finally this is some good news KC! Kudos to your perseverance.
I felt that you were too accommodative towards the dealership at first. But then, that's because you are a gentleman. Finally you had to do what you did. In India at least, you have to hit hard where it hurts the most. Kudos to the power of our Team-Bhp platform.
People in the auto industry watching this will now not take customer for granted and actually ' listen ' to the customer.

Cheers,
AB

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

It was BMW trademark, now comes in Triumph Tiger as well as Africa Twin 2020.

And also the Ducati Multistrada 1200 Enduro..



My first thoughts on seeing my friends Enduro was what if a spoke broke, can it be fixed or the whole wheel needs to be replaced. Now I know the answer

[adi58]

I’m in the same boat as with the opening post. This problem is not limited to their bikes but cars as well. BMW’s product and workshop quality has gone down for worse!

My car had to go through a dozen crucial part changes within two years of ownership. And the car still has problems for which I’m chasing their customer support for months, sending reminder emails just like you did and they haven’t replied they don’t care!

Hope someone from their head office is reading this and putting necessary changes in place.

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by ironshark

.,,,Why do I get a feeling that with this thread, folks are now even more worried about the (already bad) resale of their GSs rather than appreciating the attempt at addressing the larger issue at hand....

Sir,

You took the words out of my mouth. And you are definitely more courageous than I am.

I had actually interacted with moralfibre just a few months ago and he had told me that he was getting his wheel fixed for what I assumed to be a fairly routine issue. Still I expected it to cost a bomb. But never did I expect that the matter would snowball into the harrowing experience that he is enduring. The only thing worse is the expectation that this should be accepted as par for the course behaviour from ASS of premium brands.

Seriously, when I read about the death rattle that moralfibre experienced on the road, I stood up from my chair. That would have been super scary at any speed on a motorcycle. On a bike, one doesn’t have any protection from any consequences of such a rattle. It’s all horoscope at that point.

While I am in awe of the big GS, the spotty reputation that it has garnered in reliability leaves me amazed. Certainly the Indian market is being meted out shoddy treatment by BMW Motorrad. But, that aside, if one spends some time on AdvRider.com and other similar forums, one will come across numerous stories of the big GS crapping out. The thing is that when the machine works, it is exhilarating enough to gloss over the horror stories. That is enough to power the sales charts everywhere.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

I had a discussion with Mr. Pai who acknowledged this to be a problem and informed me that he will take this up with the company for replacement.

Have they ironed out the problem of loose spokes with new wheel rims, or, is it something you'll still need to check from time to time?

If the problem has not been resolved, I would suggest looking at a standard spoke wheel rim that is compatible and certified for use on your GS, run with a tube tire and sealant. Yes; you will run the risk of a flat (How often is that?) but this seems a safer bet than something which can just snap due to poor design.

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

It has been 22 hours since my discussion on this matter and BMW Motorrad has responded that the matter is under deliberation with the dealership.

"Deliberation" in BMW parlance appears to be akin to "Sir please give me one second!" It may vary from an hour to a day to a few weeks or months.

I got a call yesterday from the works manager who stated that their discussions went on for long and the conclusion was not to replace the wheel immediately! They have a service bulletin which describes the spoke tightening process and they would like to follow it. If the issue recurs they would replace the rear rim as well. The bets they are taking on this appears to be with someone's life at stake and I for sure don't intend to be their crash dummy. BMW Motorrad India can find someone else willing to sign up for this!

Given my previous experience, I flatly refused it because if the process works then the spokes in the rear wheel coming loose shouldn't have recurred several times as it has on my bike. He tried to coax me into accepting this option but I have flatly declined it. I insisted on speaking to Mr. Keswani. The works manager assured me that he will arrange for a call back which never came through all of yesterday.

Therefore, the last update concludes the attitude of BMW Motorrad's approach towards an issue that could be life threatening.

Australian rider Mark Taylor lost control of his GS as his wheel had 10 loose spokes. This crash prompted Australian highway safety authorities to launch a probe and then an eventual recall. Read about it here.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Are these small piddly issues worth even debate for approval? especially when a fall out can be disastrous for repute and proactiveness will earn em brand managers for life!

Don't know man! It looks like all the interviews that the present India head gave about:

- Customer obsession
- Value prop
- BMW's mission and vision statement

Was as faff as it could get. They have zero customer obsession, their value prop is worse than competition and their mission appears to be simply sell bikes and then build a wall around them so that no customer voices are heard.

Originally Posted by SnS_12

And also the Ducati Multistrada 1200 Enduro..

Attachment 2075971

My first thoughts on seeing my friends Enduro was what if a spoke broke, can it be fixed or the whole wheel needs to be replaced. Now I know the answer

Ducatis and Hondas have had zero complaints on spoked rims. Triumph is their newest adopter, we'll see how things pan out but I am sure they won't be as bad.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Have they ironed out the problem of loose spokes with new wheel rims, or, is it something you'll still need to check from time to time?

It is a part of service campaigns.

[Axe77]

Alloys vs Spokes on ADVs

On a slightly related technical note, I had imagined whenever the time to upgrade my alloy shod Tiger 800 XRX comes, I would actively consider a bike like the 900 Rally / Rally Pro (which sports tubeless spoke wheels) or similar GS etc.

Any reason I should consider myself better off sticking with ADVs that are equipped with alloys? Regardless of the brand? Is this spokes issue something that is / likely to plague all spoke wheeled offerings or is it something that BMW in particular is getting wrong more than others.

Thank you.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Alloys vs Spokes on ADVs

On a slightly related technical note, I had imagined whenever the time to upgrade my alloy shod Tiger 800 XRX comes, I would actively consider a bike like the 900 Rally / Rally Pro (which sports tubeless spoke wheels) or similar GS etc.

Any reason I should consider myself better off sticking with ADVs that are equipped with alloys? Regardless of the brand? Is this spokes issue something that is / likely to plague all spoke wheeled offerings or is it something that BMW in particular is getting wrong more than others.

Thank you.

Alloys all the way:

1. Cheaper to replace (within and outside of insurance)
2. Shops exist in India to fix cast wheels. Not tubeless spokes. Refer op.
3. Cast wheel bends, you can insert a tube and go ahead.
4. Offroad cast wheels are made better and stronger than street cast wheels
5. Traditional spoke wheels are the best, cheapest and most effective option. How ever, practice removing and fixing tube punctures at home.
6. Lyndon poskitt, dakar Rallyist who rides around the world to his rallies, uses traditional spoke wheels because they can be fixed anywhere anytime by anyone. This is the most important consideration on adv bikes. By far.

Me? Cast wheels where available for soft enduro and adv riding. Traditional spoke wheels for harder enduro like on Xpulse.

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Alloys vs Spokes on ADVs

Any reason I should consider myself better off sticking with ADVs that are equipped with alloys? Regardless of the brand? Is this spokes issue something that is / likely to plague all spoke wheeled offerings or is it something that BMW in particular is getting wrong more than others.

Thank you.

Spokes if you are considering offroading. Alloys if you wish to stick to tarmac. BMWs are prone to larger problems on spoked wheels v/s others who have adopted them.