[imp!]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

Oh my god, why would Tata bring JLR tech at those prices!!?? Are they stupid enough to lose their JLR clientele?

There is no need to offer de-badged JLR cars or use their Aluminium architecture. Neither do they need to offer DSG's, PDKs, Ingenium engines or state of the art mechatronics. They can however offer vehicles like the Harrier that are well built, finished to European standards and offer a good drive experience. Incidentally I'll probably put my money where my mouth is and buy the Automatic Harrier.

Originally Posted by Porschefire

And why would KTM localize the 1290 series and sell them at the prices you want them to!!??

The premise being that they would be first movers into not screwing the Indian public over on price. Even if my pricing is unrealistic, they can still offer fantastic value if they can bring the 1290 ADV at OTR price of 18 Lakhs, with sensible pricing on luggage systems.

Originally Posted by Porschefire

You become market leaders with your bread and butter models (Duke 200/250/390, Tiago/Tigor in Tata's case) and not by diluting your premium products into a lower price range!

Sure I agree with you, but, use JLR knowledge on quality supply chain to ensure that your cars are well built and feel premium. No need to offer a 400 NM, 600 HP, Super Charged Tigor with adaptive suspension systems. Keep that for a 80 Lakh XJL/Sports car and offer a lower version at 70 Lakhs. As that is what it is priced elsewhere. However, at 7 Lakh Rs, offer a Tigor that is well put together, has quality plastics with proper use of tolerances and an Engine tune that works well in the real world.

A Harrier without the QC issues and a little bit of attention to detail would be nice.

Originally Posted by Porschefire

I will admit that the D790 was a tricky one. Even I was hoping for a pricing miracle but it turned out the opposite. With the 790, you can sort of understand KTM's intent for it's future in India.

Thing is, if they had offered it in a spec that competed with the Striple S (not the RS mind you) they would have shown that they are still number one for offering fantastic products at good prices for India. At their current pricing they are a bit off. The electronics on offer are mind bogglingly good though.

Originally Posted by Slick

I think the price has more to do with taxation and localization.
From the looks of it, Bajaj and KTM have an understanding that the premium products get produced in Austria as earlier and the price sensitive products get made here.

KTM cannot move the manufacturing of one product here and maintain the parity between the two bases, they would effectively have to reduce costs in their home Austrian base while also investing in the Indian base.

All these sacrifices for a market which might not really buy a lot of these 790s/ 890s seems bad business sense.

Yeah the taxation structure is wonky, and, the market is small, but, it is still maturing while western markets have peaked and are in equilibrium.
For the correct products at fair prices, there will be a big potential for growth here.

Shifting Manufacturing to India while keeping design (KTM outsource the design IIRC) in Europe can actually open up huge potential for them. Their margins will go up, allowing them more funds for R&D and future growth.

Originally Posted by Slick

Same goes for Tata, though Tata exerts much more control on JLR than Bajaj does on KTM.

- Slick

Tata have learnt nothing from JLR, otherwise they'd be launching products on par or superior to Skoda/VW; As far as a pricing for India policy. I think there is a case to be made for that as Tata can benefit a great deal from being the primary luxury can manufacturer in India. Again, BRIC are the biggest growth potential for Automotive industry while everything else has virtually hit an equilibrium.

Just my opinion though.

[Ajaybiz]

I have a gut feeling that KTM 790 Duke might be replaced by 890 Duke as existing 790 Dukes are BS4 and to meet the strict emission norms without compromising on the power they might add another 100 cc and continue.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

The 'Super Scalpel' finally has its international media preview on the 31st of March 2020 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR3PLSbtnoY

[neil.jericho]

The inevitable comparison videos have started, looks like KTM might have a winner with the 890R. Let's see what the other journalists say.

Motorcycle.com

[neil.jericho]

This was a bit of a headscratcher from Neevsey. The bike weighs in at 166 kg (dry), has 119 BHP (right amount of power as per him), has great cornering ability, good brakes and yet he says he would not take it to the track. And that it is only a fun road bike. Baffling!

This sounds like just the sort of bike that one would take to the track to enjoy, more so on the smaller / twistier tracks.

Criticisms called out
- Not an all rounder (??!!)
- Visually not very large (??!!)
- Not for pillions (fair point)
- No wind protection (dont recall hearing him call out the Ducati Streetfighter on this front and that made 200 HP, need to recheck)
- Potential quality issues that might crop up with ownership, as with the Duke 790 (Two thumbs up for this, not many reviewers are candid enough to admit this)

Overall, the Triumph Street Triple RS and the Yamaha MT09 get his vote over the KTM Duke 890R for being better all rounders.

MCN

[bigron]

No better bike to take up to the hills for a weekend than this. A near perfect combination of weight, power and chassis response. Nothing really touches it.

But here's the thing, not everyone appreciates or wants the scalpel like response and edgy fun that KTM's provide. It can and does get handful for most.

The good thing is that this is a definite improvement over the 790 in every which way with better mid range power, niggle free fuel mapping, linear power delivery compared to before and that near perfect handling. It will keep the KTM aficionados happy.

[Axe77]

If they can price this inside the 2020 Street Triple R pricing in India, then it has the potential to give even the RS a run for its money (combining the VFM factor). But it would be a handful and like some have rightfully said, not everyone's cup of tea in its boiling on the edge nature. This is one of the reasons I love the Striples. They can be as docile as you want if you're not in a hooligan mood. And can go as ballistic as the next bike should you be in a different frame of mind.

[neil.jericho]

Quite a good comparison review from 44 teeth, they clearly call out the difference in personalities between the two bikes that does shows how far apart they are in the real world, despite costing near the same amount of money and putting down similar power figures on paper. The dyno comparison graph is quite eye opening and explains a lot as well.

44 Teeth

While they do heap a lot of well deserved praise on the Duke 890, it is good to see the automotive media throw out a measure of caution by calling out the KTM 790's niggling quality issues. That said, the test 890 bike throws up an immobilizer failure error message during the video during the video so it does appear to be cut from the same cloth as the 790

I wonder if Bajaj - KTM will bring the 890R to Indian after dipping their toes in the water earlier with the 790 and not getting a great response for the limited run batch. I really hope they do, it will make the market very competitive indeed.

[hifisharu]

I went in to the local KTM dealership to get a test ride of the 790, as I wanted to get a feel for this Street Triple competitor but I was in for a surprise, as they said the 890 R just came in yesterday and that I would be the first one to test ride, from their delearship While this was in one way a good thing, the bike being brand new and getting a sort of exclusive first ride, in other ways it was a bit restrictive, as they told me to be more careful with the bike, considering the tires, brakes, engine everything was brand new. Considering these points, here are my observations ( all comparisions are to my Street Triple S )

The 890 is offered in a nice eye catching White+Orange combo, but the orange wheels are not really to my liking. Styling wise, it's almost the same as the 790. The test bike had the rear cowl and I'm not sure if the pillion seat is even offered as an accessory. Quality of components was good, no obvious issues seen, with good levels of fit and finish.







Swinging a leg over the bike, the higher seat height was immediately apparent but the light weight and good balance off the stand meant the bike never felt difficult to handle, parking lot wise. Rider triangle wise, the rider is quite upright and perched over the bike, rather than sitting in it. Legs are quite rear set and this riding position took some time getting used to. Extremely hard seat makes things worse, though in the long run, the seat didn't feel uncomfortable.


Ignition on and the vehicle is ride to fire up quite quickly. In comparision, I had felt the screen on the BMW F900R had a much longer startup time, as was the case with the Triumph Tiger 900. Engine fired up, exhaust note loud, but not irritating. Clutch was light and very easy to modulate. Riding around on some local country roads, the power delivery in the 'Road' mode was immediate ad the bike accelerates quickly, with no drama. Compared to the Triple, loads of low down engine torque and brisk acceleration. Also, the bike being brand new and still in run-in condition, I had no intent to do full throttle acceleration runs. Bike was very stable in the corners and steering felt really quick to turn in and same with change in directions as well. Coming to the brakes, the 890 has the Brembo MCS master cylinder and I was expecting great initial bite, only to be disappointed. The initial bite was completely missing, but on squeeezing the lever more, the stopping power was immense. (Later on reading this review, https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/202...17-fast-facts/, I got to know that even the brake bite is adjustable, so maybe it's not that bad after all). The rear brake lever, though not used that much, was placed in a seriously cramped position, with very small foot print and kinda hidden below the exhaust pipes, making it hard to reach. Summing up my observation into likes and dislikes:

What I Liked:

• Very light weight, easy to handle nature
• Fast turn-ins and very stable steering
• Lots of useable torque, makes for quick acceleration
• Strong brakes, though bite was poor

What I Disliked:

• Meh engine note, no intake noise or drama
• Engine still lugs at 30 kmph, either too snatchy in 2nd gear or too much lugging in 3rd
• Extremely hard seat, felt like sitting on a hard, wooden bench
• Though screen offers all sorts of riding info and modes etc, basic layout feels too cramped and too busy

Coming back to my Triple after the test ride, the absence of the torque low down was very apparent, but the smoothness of the engine, that intake howl was something I had missed and only re-affirmed my decision to go with the Triple engine. I'm quite a sedate rider, not the hooligan, wheelie popping sort and for my style of riding, the Street Triple suits better, though I'm sure numbers, lap timings wise, the Duke is surely ahead.

[Venkatesh]

KTM India will launch the 890 Duke R in India by next year as the Duke 790’s replacement. The firm has no plans to upgrade the 790 to comply with BS6 norms.



Source

[Venkatesh]

KTM has unveiled the base, 890 Duke, which sits under the more powerful R variant. It gets some non-premium hardware and a detuned engine.



Here's what makes up the 890 Duke:
- 115hp, 92Nm, 889cc parallel-twin (121hp and 99Nm in the Duke R)
- Chromium-Molybdenum-Steel frame with the engine as a stressed member
- WP Apex 43mm USD forks and monoshock
- Lower-spec brakes instead of the R's Brembos
- 817mm seat height (28mm lower than the R)
- TFT screen
- Four riding modes, 9-level traction control, cornering ABS, anti-wheelie system, adjustable throttle response.
- Revised graphics

It should soon launch internationally.









Link

[mohansrides]

Same old aesthetic. All the KTM Dukes are almost indistinguishable from each other. For anyone buying a big bike, that is a big downer. I don’t want to pay 10 lacs and look like I am on a 2 lac bike. Sorry. I know that sounds shallow. But I am very very shallow and very very proud of it. Thank you very much.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Same old aesthetic. All the KTM Dukes are almost indistinguishable from each other. For anyone buying a big bike, that is a big downer. I don’t want to pay 10 lacs and look like I am on a 2 lac bike. Sorry. I know that sounds shallow. But I am very very shallow and very very proud of it. Thank you very much.

That’s a very Indian prejudice. The countries where these bikes are sold the most, people who buy them usually don’t care.

Maybe we should get over this whole beauty is skin deep.

I have ridden the 790 duke and it’s hooligan at a completely different level. Totally apt in any garage.

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

That’s a very Indian prejudice. The countries where these bikes are sold the most, people who buy them usually don’t care.

Maybe we should get over this whole beauty is skin deep.

I have ridden the 790 duke and it’s hooligan at a completely different level. Totally apt in any garage.

True that. So many of us just buy bikes just so people can see them ride it. I tried the Duke 790 and was mighty impressed. Was a hoot to ride ! But my friend who wanted to buy it didn't pick it up for the same reason others have said - it looked like any other Duke and he wouldn't be able to show off ! :P

He got a used Z800 because of its sound but he says the bike is too heavy and hardly rides it. Guess the Duke 790 was more apt for him in the end but just because of its looks he didn't pick it up. His loss!

The only reason I wouldn't pick up the Duke 790 if I had the money would be that I feel the Street Triple is just a better bike in character for similar pricing.

[nutcracker]

I've been considering a middleweight naked and while the 890 Duke R was on the top of my list, I think I'll be paying for a lot of track features that I just wont use. So the base version the Duke 890 looks more attractive as aa package for me.

Still, thee Kawasaki Z900 is topping my list because of its simple dynamics, riddeaeable nature and minimal electronics.