[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Could 17" size be a restriction? As most of the serious off-roading bikes have 19" or 21" front. But again there are many with 17" F and 17"R tyke the multistrada, V650, etc, and we are looking at lets say 70-30 favoring road. will have to be seen.

Honestly, even with knobbies these are 80:20 at best. In their present avatar, even 90:10 is kinda stretching it

[techfreak]

Just googling for dual sport tyres in Versys Spec avbl are as follows:-
1. Pirelli Scorpion Trail
2. Continental Trail Attack
3. Pirelli MT 60 RS (Pattern like Ducati Scrambler) This one seems more off road/trail oriented.


But seeing the tread pattern Scorpion Trail seemed better suited, attaching a picture of it.

But availability in Versys size in India going to be problem am sure, especially front tyre.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Superb! The start of what we are looking for! Did u get to take the tiger off-road? Would like to know your views there via a vis the versys. Already have read your views on the road manners of the tiger.

I didn't ride the Tiger yesterday. Though as you might be aware rode it several times in the past but, it was really long back so I kind of forgotten how it rides. Need to ride it ASAP

However, my friend and myself we both rode our respective bikes in that treacherous off-road condition

He said this yesterday " Tiger is not meant for that kind of extreme off-road" Period !!!

He also owns a BMW ( some old bike and very light and small--Forgot the model) and in context said its best to buy an RX-100 or such for such extreme off-roading. Can get cheap thrills for 20K or less

Originally Posted by Sojogator

These are supposed to be comfortable, reliable, planted, powerful and strong. Not something that one should use in actual 'off road' situations where light weight is the king.

It will allow one to tour from one end of the planet to another in great comfort and, in the process, will be more than willing to take on all kinds of roads- highways, ghats, pothole ridden stretches, trails, rocky roads- but climbing rocks like a mountain goat is not its forte. A moto-cross machine is suitable for that kind of use.

Your spot on. Touring bikes are supposed to do exactly that. Take you long distances and ensure you traverse through almost 80% of terrain in most comfortable fashion. If such bikes achieve that objective--then it's well worth the price

Originally Posted by Sojogator

The versys, I think, needs better suited tyres and spoked wheel for it to take on a variety of topography as well as a Tiger can. But, I feel the weigh advantage will allow the versys to be a more 'fun' machines than the tigers, except the music, overall.

Quoting my friend again from yesterday " He misses the alloys on his tiger as he says there is no real advantage of spoke wheels. He has travelled quite a bit on his bike and he dreads puncture ( experienced once and it was apparently a nightmarish experience) and tubes are ridiculously expensive (6K)"

In short, he would have preferred alloys on his Tiger

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Dude! yes tyres are a big issue, road tyres on jeeps also struggle, but the tyres that these bikes have are far worse in comparison for any offroad situation. Broken / Katcha road is the best they can, and there too with limitation. If you want to take it offroad, invest on knobby thread patterns.

Jaggu, yesterday was just a fun experiment. I will never ever abuse the bike like I did yesterday. It is just not cut-out for such activity and more of time-pass and wanted to click a few pictures

Originally Posted by Jaggu

What was the seat position on Tiger XC? Low or High setting? And can it be adjusted in Versys? On my IBW ride i was using XC and failed to realize i was riding on high settings till i reached Goa lol. Yes it felt way different at crawling speeds in traffic and parking but was ok at high speeds.

Hmmm. I didn't think of checking what setting but, seating position of Tiger was definitely lower than Versys 650. Will double tomorrow as I'm meeting him again.

Our Saturday morning rides are back, my old gang pinged me and wanted me to start the group again and rekindle the passion. So will be meeting most of them tomorrow

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Ofcourse you pay almost double for it! It is brilliant for long rides and broken tarmac. My rider partner is very good and he always leads ahead of me especially on broken stretch where the stripple is quite iffy. Until this IBW ride where i was on XC and he on an XR. That spoke wheels and better suspension made a HUGE difference in our riding styles. I was ripping over the broken patch inside the jungle section of highway, moment i see a bad patch i was downshifting and on flying mode. All i needed was a little weight transfer to legs, to ease the weight of my bum and good concentration of the surface undulation ahead.

It is much heavier and I feel it will be not any good than the Versys 650 because I could see my friend struggling to turn the bike after a long straight run...>we are riding fast in a straight line in a dusty/soft trail and then had to make a U-turn to do that run again

I had trouble in turning the bike but, I could see he had even more trouble taking that U-turn. He is as tall as me but lean

In short, weight plays an important part in such conditions and neither bike is really cut-out for such extreme riding

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Wait till you go for a 500 plus km ride, those noisy things really add to the tiredness on long ride. I always prefer silent exhaust for touring, be it cars or bikes.

Totally agree. I love a silent ride too and prefer to listen to my own music ( wind, breeze and my thoughts)

After that muck-dirt laden ride, it was time for a nice foam wash this morning !!!

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Sojogator

Hey, I don't hate myself that much .

Apology that was a honest typo

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Could 17" size be a restriction?

Yes though Dunlop seems to be having some 17" options. But another question that comes to mind is how much useful will be tyres, if the alloys can't handle it. Have seen quite a few alloys getting dented with regular city potholes.

[nasirkaka]

Yes though Dunlop seems to be having some 17" options. But another question that comes to mind is how much useful will be tyres, if the alloys can't handle it. Have seen quite a few alloys getting dented with regular city potholes.

For these premium bikes, i guess the quality of alloys would be better and well tested over rough terrains. Tiger XR series come with alloys, so is ducati multistrada and even Hyperstrada which are projected as adventure bikes, likely to go off road a bit. As stated by mobike008, his friend wishes hes had alloys on the tiger XC, as punctures are an issue. BMW GS1200 comes with standard alloys, having option to upgrade to spokes (which are again a combination of alloy rims for tubeless tyre and wire spokes and cost a bomb).
Except for the Duke 200 and some 390 alloys cracking, there arent too many cases. With alloys one is got to be a bit careful checking and maintaining proper tyre pressure. I guess for mild off roading, the alloys should hold fine.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Except for the Duke 200 and some 390 alloys cracking, there arent too many cases. With alloys one is got to be a bit careful checking and maintaining proper tyre pressure. I guess for mild off roading, the alloys should hold fine.

Sorry i don't agree to that, i know of ninja, bonnie, street all getting bends at the lips due to bad indian roads. And only thing premium then is the price tag, which starts for 35k a piece and sometimes goes upto 65k!

Ok i think offroad tyres offer better protection to the rims due to the better sidewalls, in comparison to pure road performance tyres. So that should help.

As far as tube issue is concerned, just convert the spoke wheels to tubeless, kits are available off the shelf for about 10-13k a wheel. Worth the investment i would say.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

As far as tube issue is concerned, just convert the spoke wheels to tubeless, kits are available off the shelf for about 10-13k a wheel. Worth the investment i would say.

Veerameti has done this with his tiger... If I remember right he's got himself a xcx... He did say it cost him a bomb...

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

As far as tube issue is concerned, just convert the spoke wheels to tubeless, kits are available off the shelf for about 10-13k a wheel. Worth the investment i would say.

Don't you think this discussion is going extreme? Who wants to convert their alloys on a Versys 650 to spoke wheels?

Like Sojogator pointed out accurately, V650 will be awesome for long distance touring. Be it beautiful highways, bad roads etc.

But, it is not meant for extreme road conditions which most of us might encounter maybe 5% of time ( unless you specifically ride in such conditions like your's truly did yesterday )

I personally would never even think of changing the stock rims to spoke wheels. I'm sure there are lot of extreme people out there doing extreme things. Good luck to them !!!

[Sojogator]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

For these premium bikes, i guess the quality of alloys would be better and well tested over rough terrains...

Better, yes. Immortal, no. Spokes would fair better. Absorb the punishment. Even damages are more manageable.

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

...Except for the Duke 200 and some 390 alloys cracking, there arent too many cases...

Dukes were infamous because the alloys broke and fell apart too often. Bent alloys are a norm in what ever machine.

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

...I guess for mild off roading, the alloys should hold fine...

Yes they should. But, IMO, most alloy damages happen more from the out-of-the-blue potholes in otherwise well laid roads rather than trails or poor roads where the rider is already aware and careful.

BTW, can't the users of tubed and spoked wheels use the tube version of TyreProtector/Slime ? At least as an emergency measure ?

[nasirkaka]

Sorry i don't agree to that, i know of ninja, bonnie, street all getting bends at the lips due to bad indian roads. And only thing premium then is the price tag, which starts for 35k a piece and sometimes goes upto 65k!

Definitely spoked wheel set are best bet for taking abusive impact of the offroad terrain, but most of the bikes (imports as well as domestic) available here are with alloys these days. Ranging from 100 cc commuters to harleys, triumphs, kawasakis, ktms, etc most of them come with only alloys option. hence more number of bent cases with these bikes. A nasty pothole at a bad angle can even damage spoked rims (experienced once om my machismo, another time a friend got his front rim bent on his CI 350 right in the middle of town @ shivaji nagar). But again, metal rolled rims with spokes may bent but less likely to crack as alloys.

[2legit2quit]

He also owns a BMW ( some old bike and very light and small--Forgot the model)

He meant the BMW funduro that was bought in by erstwhile hero honda also, yesterday was fun. Hope you find it a little more enjoyable the next time around :P

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by 2legit2quit

He meant the BMW funduro that was bought in by erstwhile hero honda also, yesterday was fun. Hope you find it a little more enjoyable the next time around

Absolutely Rohit ! Good to see you here...It was super duper fun yesterday morning. It just needs a lot of practice and that terrain is suitable for off-road jeeps not for the poor Versys 650 and my shoulders were aching for a full day

Waiting for you to complete spinning your magic soon !!!

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

As far as tube issue is concerned, just convert the spoke wheels to tubeless, kits are available off the shelf for about 10-13k a wheel. Worth the investment i would say.

True. But what one also needs to figure in the cost of alloy wheels one would purchase. Off the shelf options like Excel rims cost as much as a KTM duke and a half IIRC. Then you spend extra to try and seal the spoke nipples for the rims to take tubeless rubber, get a new mudguard to take the bigger rim etc etc.

Too much hassle and absolutely not worth it IMO

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

A nasty pothole at a bad angle can even damage spoked rims (experienced once om my machismo, another time a friend got his front rim bent on his CI 350 right in the middle of town @ shivaji nagar). But again, metal rolled rims with spokes may bent but less likely to crack as alloys.

Precisely mate and they can be repaired as well unlike the alloys which will need a replacement. If you notice many hardcore ADV tourers(I don't need to name them as I have done it a number of times) continue to come with spoke Wheels that takes tubeless tyres due to their unique construction as opposed to normal spoke wheels. Of course they costly but are well worth it.

If one wants the best of both worlds i.e. road and offroad then there is no better option than the legendary Kawasaki KLR 650. It can do 50/50 road and off road with ease including cross country globe trotting. And yes you read it right it comes with spoke wheels. It is more of a hardcore ADV tourer than a Sport cum ADV tourer. Different bikes Different Calibers.

[nasirkaka]

If one wants the best of both worlds i.e. road and offroad then there is no better option than the legendary Kawasaki KLR 650. It can do 50/50 road and off road with ease including cross country globe trotting. And yes you read it right it comes with spoke wheels. It is more of a hardcore ADV tourer than a Sport cum ADV tourer. Different bikes Different Calibers.

only if KLR was available in India, many of us (including myself) would have gone that way. Good things come to us last, if at all. :(

But we are taking about two slightly different points here. Once is that Versys OEM tyres are not suited for trail/soft off-road including mud, slush, gravel, etc, where a dual purpose tyre would be much more effective.
Secondly, spokes Vs alloy, where spokes obviously would be more suited for serious off-road conditions, but versys 650 never claims to belong to that genre. For light off-road type conditions which we encounter in our touring conditions (eg, road from Belur towards Kudremukh), alloys with dual purpose rubber would suffice. Personally, i would have liked the Versys 650 to come with spokes (just like the V-storm), But i am ok living with alloys and not going to try and change it & hope i dont encounter any of those nasty alloy breaking creators. Touchwood!!