[mobike008]

Congratulations The Rainmaker for your beautiful Cayman S.

I just stumbled upon this thread and I must say the only feelings that I currently have is that of envy and admiration for owning such a gorgeous spec'd car.

I have driven a few Porsches (Macan, Cayenne and a Boxter) but, I am a fan of the Cayman in particular for the body shape, mid-engine mount and for being a true sports car.

I would have bought one long back had it not been for practicality and usage as I like to "drive" all my cars and not store them in garage and Porsche is one such where people are afraid to put mileage on it hence, my decision to get one is pending for a while. We can get a beautiful example of 987.2 here for as low as $30K and now after looking at your thread, I'm super tempted to see if I want to take a plunge for a 3rd car which is absolutely impractical in my use case.

My dream Porsche (I only dream of something that I can afford ) is the Cayman GTS 4.0 which is still unaffordable in my books but, something I can aspire to own in future. A decent pre-owned example can set me back by $85K grand. I also think if an M4 Competition would be good enough instead?

You may hav done lot of research on all models of Cayman. I would love to hear your views of what you think would be a difference between a 987.2 vs. GTS 4.0 which has similar specs (Flat 6, PDK) and more than the additional power, I am curious to know about its driving dynamics.

Also, what's you opinion of the Cayman (Base) and Cayman (S)- Well, I am not took keen on the base but, would love to hear views from an existing owner of a Cayman.

Sorry of the long list of questions but, getting views from an owner is invaluable compared to views, opinions from side lines (journalists, articles etc)

Enjoy the car and many happy miles on it. Cheers !!

[Ace F355]

Great thread, yours seem like a nicely loaded example indeed. It's just sad that people like me based in Delhi NCR can't even dream to think about cars from this era. Late 2000s, early 2010s had some knocked-out-of-the-park cars like W204 C63, E92 M3, Audi R8 manual (a few came to India), and this... the 987.2 Cayman S. Alas, thanks to NGT madness, even buying these as a weekend toy is impossible for us. I can only pray that this NGT non-sense doesn't spread to rest of the states. In the meantime, please keep us well-fed through those pics and your driving anecdotes.

PS. I was looking at the specs through print copy of the brochure and happened to stumble upon the price list from the time around which this car would have been ordered. Crazy to think something to be 70L ex-showroom at the time of original invoice to fetch similar price in pre-owned market, well beyond 12+ years of ownership.


I also find it funny that there was a time when one would need serious moolah for owning a Turbo from Porsche's model range, and now that almost everything is turbocharged, people scout and pay crazy money for NA examples. How times have changed.

[d_payne]

Originally Posted by mobike008

My dream Porsche (I only dream of something that I can afford ) is the Cayman GTS 4.0 which is still unaffordable in my books but
You may hav done lot of research on all models of Cayman. I would love to hear your views of what you think would be a difference between a 987.2 vs. GTS 4.0 which has similar specs (Flat 6, PDK) and more than the additional power, I am curious to know about its driving dynamics.

If I may jump in here to answer this.

The biggest difference will be the steering feel. The 987.2 still had hydraulic steering, and every drive in mine is an experience. Newer cars (even sports cars) are simpler to drive, but also that much disconnected from the road. It's not a terrible thing if you want to daily that GTS, but if this is a car for the weekend, I'd wager that the 987.2 is where it's at. The other bit is how mechanical this entire experience feels like in an (relatively) older Porsche. Both these things matter when it's a car meant for the occasional fun drive, and not the commute.

Make no mistake, the GTS 4.0 is an incredible car, but these decisions to buy a car to put a smile on your face should be taken with the experience above all else. Newer cars just do not feel as special as that generation. But then, this is purely personal preference. I love hearing the suspension, feeling the road, and every little analog bit in this car. If I want isolation, I have the Cayenne or the Mini for that.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by d_payne

If I may jump in here to answer this.

The biggest difference will be the steering feel. The 987.2 still had hydraulic steering, and every drive in mine is an experience. Newer cars (even sports cars) are simpler to drive, but also that much disconnected from the road. It's not a terrible thing if you want to daily that GTS, but if this is a car for the weekend, I'd wager that the 987.2 is where it's at. The other bit is how mechanical this entire experience feels like in an (relatively) older Porsche. Both these things matter when it's a car meant for the occasional fun drive, and not the commute.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, most likely it will be a weekend car with occasional short drives here and there and I typically clock less than 10K miles (16,000kms) in a year.

My daily clocks more than 13K-14K miles.

Since you own the 987.2 and speaking from experience, I think that's a great feedback. I will try to drive one and see for myself.

And, this option also saves me tons of money compared to the GTS 4.0.

Originally Posted by d_payne

Make no mistake, the GTS 4.0 is an incredible car, but these decisions to buy a car to put a smile on your face should be taken with the experience above all else. Newer cars just do not feel as special as that generation. But then, this is purely personal preference. I love hearing the suspension, feeling the road, and every little analog bit in this car. If I want isolation, I have the Cayenne or the Mini for that.

Thanks again. Have you driven the GTS 4.0 and you say the overall visceral feeling is not there as the 987.2?

The only attractive thing about the 4.0 is the additional power and better mechanicals.

[The Rainmaker]

Originally Posted by mobike008

I have driven a few Porsches (Macan, Cayenne and a Boxter) but, I am a fan of the Cayman in particular for the body shape, mid-engine mount and for being a true sports car.

First of all, thank you so much! I really appreciate that.

Life's too short to wait. I'd say buy the car of your dreams and live it up. That's what I did. In fact, since I have a passion for cars, I'm literally making my life around it.

Now for the comparison, I've never driven the GTS 4.0 but did drive the GT4 and will be driving the GT4 RS this May at the track. As I said earlier, none of the newer cars offer the build quality, visceral feel, raw feedback and driver engagement of the 987.2. They are faster, but so is the bullet train and roller coasters. If half a second faster makes you happy, go ahead with the GTS 4.0 but for everything else, it doesn't even come close to the 987.2 in terms of driving experience. The steering is electric, no feel, the dimensions are huge with a long wheelbase, you'll 'feel' the weight most of the time, the high center console and shoulder lines really make the view restricted all around and most importantly you don't get the brake modulation/travel, feedback and feel of a real sports car. They're too comfy and more like luxury tourer these days with a muffled cabin.

The whole point is how 'you' feel and control the car while driving that makes the decision for you. For me, I love being in control and drive my own cars. Some people lacking the skill need electronic aids, rear cameras, sensors, touchscreens etc. to make up for the lack of skill. They go in for the newer cars because they feel newer is better and these 'fancy' but complicated features make them see value in the inflated prices these days.

On the other hand, I'm too rational to give in to the marketing BS about those features that only add weight and a hole in your wallet while adding more failure point to cost you a bomb in future. In short, if you care about the car, look no further than the 987.2, the next logical upgrade would be the F430. Everything else is just a compromise, heavy and not what a true sports car should be.

Comparing the base and S, well I've not driven the 987.2 base but given the lower power figures, I understand it may not be as thrilling to drive as the S and since the price difference isn't much, better to go with the S. 981 and 718 are best avoided. Porsche really never gave this platform enough power to keep it below the 911 and that's true even today. Through so many years, all these cars make similar power and acceleration times while the prices have gone up and quality has drastically gone down. It seems to work for them because not many people do their research before buying these cars. Hope it makes sense to you. Do let me know if there's anything else I can help you with

Originally Posted by Ace F355

Late 2000s, early 2010s had some knocked-out-of-the-park cars like W204 C63, E92 M3, Audi R8 manual (a few came to India), and this... the 987.2 Cayman S. Alas, thanks to NGT madness, even buying these as a weekend toy is impossible for us.

Thank you so much. I specced it myself back when it was ordered. Everything was tastefully done. I had spent almost 2 months researching the options and noting down the weight savings for each option . No wonder when the time came to buy a 987.2, I was hell bent on buying this very car.

Your point is very much valid and those are some really amazing cars. I plan to have a car collection with those cars in my garage one day. I don't mind paying the price as long as the cars are kept in an OCD clean state in a 'Collector' grade condition. For me, condition of a car and the attention to detail in maintenance and upkeep is the single most important deciding factor to evaluate a car. Sadly, till date I've never found a single pre-owned car in India like that other than this one. In fact, here even many enthusiasts don't keep their cars that clean. For example, I still can't find a single Porsche in the whole country with a PDK service done. That's probably THE most important service of all and still when the time comes to sell, they'll market their cars as Enthusiast cars and start asking crazy prices. Being daily driven is one thing, but keeping them clean and up to date on services (And cosmetically) is another. People tend to confuse the two.

That's a good observation on the Turbo vs NA aspect. Seeing this, even automakers are trying to rip off customers. Like BMW is charging a higher price for the manual in M2, Porsche gives you a slot and then tells you to bid for it with a competing offer etc. They've all turned very unethical these days and there are customers encouraging them to do so by paying for their new gen compromises.

Originally Posted by d_payne

The biggest difference will be the steering feel. The 987.2 still had hydraulic steering, and every drive in mine is an experience.

^^What he said

If you want to enjoy what you drive, go with the 987.2 otherwise just get any newer car as they're all mostly the same these days.

Originally Posted by mobike008

most likely it will be a weekend car with occasional short drives here and there and I typically clock less than 10K miles (16,000kms) in a year.

Ok let me help you out here point wise. Comparison would be between 987.2 and the other newer cars that I've driven (GT4, Huracan and 992 Carrera S)

- Tons of feedback vs Zero feedback (Yes, literally)

- Hydraulic steering vs Electric Steering (Sensors and motor doing the job, so no connection)

- Slower vs Faster (If a half a second matters to you, but you can always use the spare cash to make it as fast as the GT4)

- Good Handling vs Better Handling (Only for the GT4, but then use the spare cash and make it as good as the GT4)

- Driver Engagement vs useless Electronic Aids

- Short vs Long Wheelbase (Quicker rotation - basic physics)

- High Quality materials vs Low quality (Especially interiors)

- Lightweight vs heavy

- Sense of occasion vs Boring usual

- Long travel brakes vs short VAG parts bin brakes

- Mostly German/EU made parts and components vs Cheaper RoW parts used throughout the newer cars

These are some quick points to help you decide.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by The Rainmaker

For example, I still can't find a single Porsche in the whole country with a PDK service done. That's probably THE most important service of all and still when the time comes to sell, they'll market their cars as Enthusiast cars and start asking crazy prices. Being daily driven is one thing, but keeping them clean and up to date on services (And cosmetically) is another. People tend to confuse the two.

Without getting into the rest of the debate, I think you need to give other Porsche owners in India a bit more credit. PDK service was the first thing I did when I got my 911. I know many others who are aware of it, and doing/done it already. The level of awareness has gone up tremendously in the past few years, and not with regards to just regular upkeep, even with mods. There are some crazy builds out there with top notch parts.

[The Rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Akshay1234

Without getting into the rest of the debate, I think you need to give other Porsche owners in India a bit more credit. PDK service was the first thing I did when I got my 911. I know many others who are aware of it, and doing/done it already. The level of awareness has gone up tremendously in the past few years, and not with regards to just regular upkeep, even with mods. There are some crazy builds out there with top notch parts.

Fair enough. As for the builds, I agree to that as well but the only downside to modified cars in India is the work culture. Here even official dealerships don't use torque wrenches unless you're supervising them, so can't blame those outside mod shops who don't even have the official service manuals to know the torque figures. I've already found 1 Audi and 2 Porsches with broken or missing header and caliper bolts because they were either over-tightened or under-tightened. These independent workshops rarely have torque wrenches for all specs and even if they have some, they're usually not calibrated as often as the dealership wrenches, so that's another issue. I won't even get into the quality and brands of torque wrenches being used because that's another topic. That's why I never got any of my cars modified in India .

As for the PDK service, my info is based on the feedback that I got in 2021 before getting mine serviced. I called every single Porsche Center in the country and confirmed if they had done this service and they all denied back then. I was willing to move my car to that location to be serviced by an experienced hand.

Great to find another owner who's just as proactive. Just for my knowledge (Since I like to know everything about the latest updates), may I ask what all did you get changed in the service and which Porsche Center was this? For an ease of reference, I'll list out the parts and fluids pertaining to the PDK service and you can simply write Yes/No:

- PDK Pan replacement w/13 bolts
- PDK Clutch Fluid replacement using PIWIS
- PDK Gear Oil change
- PDK Gear Oil change for the Diff

These last 2 services are usually combined with PDK because the transmission is already warmed up after the clutch fluid change.

Do you happen to own a 997.2?

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by The Rainmaker

- PDK Pan replacement w/13 bolts
- PDK Clutch Fluid replacement using PIWIS
- PDK Gear Oil change
- PDK Gear Oil change for the Diff

These last 2 services are usually combined with PDK because the transmission is already warmed up after the clutch fluid change.

Do you happen to own a 997.2?

I didn't do it in any Porsche centre, and it wasn't any rocket science either. Its pretty much the same as doing any other dual clutch fluid change.

The PDK pan with the built in filter was changed, and the clutch fluid was changed after putting the PDK in fill mode with a scanner (not only Piwis is needed for this).

Even the axle oil was changed too, and the diff drained. The fill nut for both these is the same though.

I have a 991.2, since I wanted the turbocharged engine. Have done catless downpipes and a stage 2 tune, and will eventually upgrade to the gts turbos.

[The Rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Akshay1234

I didn't do it in any Porsche centre, and it wasn't any rocket science either. Its pretty much the same as doing any other dual clutch fluid change.

The PDK pan with the built in filter was changed, and the clutch fluid was changed after putting the PDK in fill mode with a scanner (not only Piwis is needed for this).

Actually, it's not the same as any other dual clutch fluid change as this one has a different procedure and uses PIWIS to activate the mode and helps in adding about 300-500ml or so extra depending on the car because it bleeds the system before filling it up. If it worked for you, it's all well but what scanner did you use?

From the email replies (From various scan tool manufacturers) and reading up on the forums, PIWIS seemed like the only bulletproof way to ensure the correct fluid fill, since we can't really measure it. Following the correct procedure is the only way to be sure unless one measures every ml of the fluid being drained which is impossible with the pan being changed and fluid coming out from everywhere including some also absorbed in the old filter.

While Autel, Foxwell, Durametric, Launch etc. do offer this is in the menu but activating the fill mode either doesn't do anything or simply doesn't work. One can't tell if it's worked or not since there is no sound as such. Foxwell did say they will be updating this in near future and Autel says it works with mixed opinions of people on forums. Maybe something to do with different firmware versions. I chose to go with PIWIS because it was a sure shot way to fill as per factory spec and a cheap insurance in my humble opinion.

I'd want to look into that and probably buy one myself if it has worked for you since I'm currently using a Foxwell because of the functionality that it offers. For major stuff like coolant fill, PDK services etc., I would pay extra for PIWIS any day for the peace of mind.

Also, did you get the OEM Porsche PDK fluid or any other?

Even the axle oil was changed too, and the diff drained. The fill nut for both these is the same though.

That's correct. May I ask what oil you used for gear and diff because the system is quite sensitive to gear fluid. Reading and following up on the feedback from people, it was pretty clear that Shell Spirax S5 ATE 75w-90 and Motul Gear 300 75w-90 are the best ones with Shell probably being the OEM for Porsche fluid as well. With other synthetic oils, owners reported that the transmission was not as smooth as these 2 fluids and mostly went back. How has your experience been with the fluid you used?

I have a 991.2, since I wanted the turbocharged engine. Have done catless downpipes and a stage 2 tune, and will eventually upgrade to the gts turbos.

Sounds good. Do you have a thread or plan to have one in future showcasing these mods? Would love to see your build.