[Guite]

In post #133 I had written abit about my accident. In that instance the entire front headlight to headlight, including radiator, etc., was damaged. Repair has been doen and insurance settled two weeks back.

I gave this same car for service to another authorised service centre and they detected a problem with the oxygen sensor. They also said that this could be due to the accident.

We took it to back to original workshop. After checking and swapping parts they finally agreed that there is a problem with the sensor. However they said:-
1. It is not due to accident, it is part failure.
2. Electronic parts are not covered by insurance.

Few more details: car is Hyundai Getz, O2 sensor will cost Rs.8k. Insurance company is Bharti AXA.

So my questions are:-
1. Can I raise insurance claim once again?
2. Are electronic parts really not covered by insurance? Will contact insurance company tomorrow. In the meantime would like to hear from fellow Bhpians.

[k2max6]

Originally Posted by Guite

So my questions are:-
1. Can I raise insurance claim once again?
2. Are electronic parts really not covered by insurance? Will contact insurance company tomorrow. In the meantime would like to hear from fellow Bhpians.

1. No.
2. It might have been changed if it was noted at that time, and it was evidently clear that the reason of the damage was the accident. Its generally very hard to convince the surveyors on this. Although i don't think you would have got more than 50%.

I am not specifically sure on the insurance policy terms for the O2 sensor but parts like power windows, compressor, alternator, electric mirrors,lights,electronic power steering etc. are all covered.

[Guite]

Originally Posted by k2max6

1. No.
2. It might have been changed if it was noted at that time, and it was evidently clear that the reason of the damage was the accident. Its generally very hard to convince the surveyors on this. Although i don't think you would have got more than 50%.

I am not specifically sure on the insurance policy terms for the O2 sensor but parts like power windows, compressor, alternator, electric mirrors,lights,electronic power steering etc. are all covered.

Thanks for the response. 50% is okay; since the car is 4 years old my share of repair cost came to about 45% anyway. Sad part is inaptitude of the service centre, now I have to pay full from my pocket.

If all the items you have listed are covered, I don't see why a sensor should not be covered.

Lots of lessons learned from this unfortunate incident.

[k2max6]

Originally Posted by Guite

Thanks for the response. 50% is okay; since the car is 4 years old my share of repair cost came to about 45% anyway. Sad part is inaptitude of the service centre, now I have to pay full from my pocket.

If all the items you have listed are covered, I don't see why a sensor should not be covered.

Lots of lessons learned from this unfortunate incident.

Also try enquiring rates from the outside market. Might be cheaper by upto 50%. It makes sense because as per my knowledge no warranty is offered even from the authorised service stations.

I got a mounting for shock absorber of my getz for 1100 bucks which costed 2600 with company and wasn't even available readily. Genuine.

[Guite]

Originally Posted by k2max6

Also try enquiring rates from the outside market. Might be cheaper by upto 50%. It makes sense because as per my knowledge no warranty is offered even from the authorised service stations.

Bumping into a good outside workshop is such a matter of luck, when even authorised workshops can't be trusted always. This has been amply illustrated by my experience. So do you have any outside workshop recommendation?

[k2max6]

Originally Posted by Guite

Bumping into a good outside workshop is such a matter of luck, when even authorised workshops can't be trusted always. This has been amply illustrated by my experience. So do you have any outside workshop recommendation?

I have purchased quite a few items from Mahajan automobiles in Lajpat Nagar I , its near the car accessories market. Its a spare parts shop. Its a reliable shop. You can even call them (+91-11-29817215) and ask if its available and do ask the price as well. We also have Batra Auto Spares at Ashram. That is also quite famous but i haven't bought from them much.
Other bhpians might be able to help specific to your area.

[akshaymahajan]

Team BHP somehow manages to bump up a thread when you need it.

Guys,
My question. I rear ended a car a week back. Actually not even rear ended. I hit the right side of the bumper and the clip came off/broke and there were 3 spots (2mm in diameter each) where the paint came off. I got down and asked the guy to park at a corner and we could talk. And he starts blabbering about how the whole bumper needed replacement and would cost 10 k. The left side was already scratched and the clips broken. All the time he kept saying 'Cash Settlement kar lo. Batao kitne doge'. I said I did not know and told him to call his SA. He quoted one thousand. Fair enough. I told him to send me a copy of the bill and I would transfer the money into his account. Today morning he sends me a bill for 8.5k. Which includes 1400 for two things (seal and clip I think) which clearly state LH. Why would I pay for the parts changed on the left. And 4200 for painting the entire bumper. I told him to send me the bill of what he paid and what the insurance paid. And he says he paid the whole amount. The bill is invoiced to his Insurance company so I highlight that to him. Then he says that he paid 80% and the insurance covered only 20%. I have sent him an email telling him how insurance works and covers all repairs. And you pay the depriciation on parts and a deductible. And I am bored of him lying. I would have happily paid for the damage but I dont want to now. Is it ok to tell him to go the legal way and try get his 6500 and I am done with him?

He also says that his car was in the shop for 4 days and that the dicky was touhing the stepney and all that was fixed. The bill doesnt have anything of that sort (only bumper and painting) and it clearly states Car In date is 4th feb and Out date is 6th Feb.

[Guite]

Originally Posted by k2max6

I have purchased quite a few items from Mahajan automobiles in Lajpat Nagar I , its near the car accessories market. Its a spare parts shop. Its a reliable shop. You can even call them (+91-11-29817215) and ask if its available and do ask the price as well.

Thanks, will enquire tomorrow. Also enquired with Bharti AXA and they confirmed that claim cannot be raised again.

Originally Posted by akshaymahajan

The bill is invoiced to his Insurance company so I highlight that to him. Then he says that he paid 80% and the insurance covered only 20%.

In my case invoice was in my name for full amount. Insurance communicated their share and I paid balance. So I have receipt payment made by me.

BTW, an old thread did not get bumped up.

[k2max6]

Originally Posted by akshaymahajan

Team BHP somehow manages to bump up a thread when you need it.

Guys,
My question. I rear ended a car a week back. Actually not even rear ended. I hit the right side of the bumper and the clip came off/broke and there were 3 spots (2mm in diameter each) where the paint came off. I got down and asked the guy to park at a corner and we could talk. And he starts blabbering about how the whole bumper needed replacement and would cost 10 k. The left side was already scratched and the clips broken. All the time he kept saying 'Cash Settlement kar lo. Batao kitne doge'. I said I did not know and told him to call his SA. He quoted one thousand. Fair enough. I told him to send me a copy of the bill and I would transfer the money into his account. Today morning he sends me a bill for 8.5k. Which includes 1400 for two things (seal and clip I think) which clearly state LH. Why would I pay for the parts changed on the left. And 4200 for painting the entire bumper. I told him to send me the bill of what he paid and what the insurance paid. And he says he paid the whole amount. The bill is invoiced to his Insurance company so I highlight that to him. Then he says that he paid 80% and the insurance covered only 20%. I have sent him an email telling him how insurance works and covers all repairs. And you pay the depriciation on parts and a deductible. And I am bored of him lying. I would have happily paid for the damage but I dont want to now. Is it ok to tell him to go the legal way and try get his 6500 and I am done with him?

He also says that his car was in the shop for 4 days and that the dicky was touhing the stepney and all that was fixed. The bill doesnt have anything of that sort (only bumper and painting) and it clearly states Car In date is 4th feb and Out date is 6th Feb.

See if he would have got it repaired, it wouldn't have cost not more than 500bucks.
But a lot of people do prefer to go the insurance way for a no frills work.
But he went the insurance way i.e he must have given his car to an authorised service centre.
Now let me tell you the scenario at the authorised service centre when taking insurance claims :
1.They never repair the bumper no matter how easy it may be.
-> That means a new bumper must have been installed.
-> Insurance company must have paid only 50% (Unless he was having Zero Depreciation Insurance)
-> As far as seal & clips are concerned , they might have been damaged in an earlier accident.

2.They will always paint the full bumper no matter how small the are to be painted is. Even 2 mm.
-> The insurance companies now pay only 75% of the paint charges ( 25% Paint Depreciation )


So All in all total bill sumps up to approx - (Very roughly)
1. Bumper - Rs.2900 He paid - Rs.1450
2. Paint - Rs.4200 He paid - Rs.1050
3. Clips - Rs.1400 He paid - Rs.700
4. Compulsory Deductible - Rs.1000
Total Bill - Rs.8,500 + deductible.
Total paid by him should be around Rs.4200 /-
On the other hand it also might be possible that the company has billed the person only the amount that was not paid by the insurance. Another angle might be that he showed you the bill that was settled by the insurance company. If you can upload a copy of the bill, we can find better

As far as the legal way is concerned, there isn't anything he can do unless you gave him some kind of statement in writing. Even if has links with the police he can at max ,file an FIR but they have of no proof that whose fault was it.
In the case of rear ending generally it considered that the vehicle in front must have applied a hard brake leading which didn't gave enough time for the vehicle in the rear to stop.

See technically if it was your fault you are then liable to pay but as per the terms (Rs.1000) that were decided at that time.As a gesture of goodwill you can still pay the amount he actually paid. Just ask him for Insurance approval copy/receipt. Bill may include total amount but receipts are generally of the amount paid by the customer.

Also tell us which is the car in question and how old it must be ?
This will give us an idea how much he actually paid.
Also in the bill do you find any receipt for the amount/payment mode ?

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by k2max6

As far as the legal way is concerned, there isn't anything he can do unless you gave him some kind of statement in writing. Even if has links with the police he can at max ,file an FIR but they have of no proof that whose fault was it.

It will be hard for the guy to prove that the OP was at fault as the car is already repaired and no FIR was not registered after the accident. But, IMO, It will be unethical on OP's part.

Originally Posted by k2max6

In the case of rear ending generally it considered that the vehicle in front must have applied a hard brake leading which didn't gave enough time for the vehicle in the rear to stop.

See technically if it was your fault you are then liable to pay but as per the terms (Rs.1000) that were decided at that time.

Nope, you are mistaken here. In case of rear ending accidents, fault is always on the car that hits from back. OP should have maintain safe distance to bring the car to stop safely in any circumstances.

[akshaymahajan]

Thanks k2max6 for the detailed reply. The car in question was a 45 day old Liva. I have a copy of the bill. Here is the breakup
Rear Bumper Painting and R&R: 4416
Cover RR Bumper: 2061
piece RR Bumper(4): 285
Retainer Bumper LH:691
Seal Bumper LH: 785
Grommet Screw(2):70
Clip(2):104

This is inclusive of taxes. Wasnt depriciation on paint for policies issued after 1st Feb 2013?

So if i remove the LH parts and half of the clips, etc considering both sides were replaced my liabilty is 1500 odd (considering 50% dep). The bill is made to
Customer: Chola Manadalam GIC Ltd

If I get the bill which he paid tomorrow and he agrees to me not covering LH repairs in the first communication tomorrow, good enough. If not, I will tell him to settle everything with my insurance company.

[Wheeliej]

Originally Posted by Nitrous Power

Nope, you are mistaken here. In case of rear ending accidents, fault is always on the car that hits from back. OP should have maintain safe distance to bring the car to stop safely in any circumstances.

I just wish everyone would understand this very basic aspect of driving rules. All over the world the car in the rear is at fault since the responsibility for maintaining a safe distance is the rear cars.

Akshay, do the right thing. These Japanese car bumpers don't always behave predictably and it is possible that lh damage also occurred due to your car rear ending it. You dont know that it was damaged before. You did the right thing by stopping and accepting responsibility and it is perhaps due to this that the guy also took up the trouble of sending the car to the service centre and claiming insurance. It must be very distressing for the owner when a 45 day old car is damaged. He will also be losing out on the no claim bonus. Don't be impatient with him.

[Warwithwheels]

Originally Posted by akshaymahajan

Team BHP somehow manages to bump up a thread when you need it..

You are not obliged to pay even a dime to that guy. Ask him to claim it from his insurance or file a FIR and claim it from your TP.

If you are asked to pay for the damages, then why did he insure his car at all?

[MetalBuff]

Originally Posted by Wheeliej

I just wish everyone would understand this very basic aspect of driving rules. All over the world the car in the rear is at fault since the responsibility for maintaining a safe distance is the rear cars.

Akshay, do the right thing. These Japanese car bumpers don't always behave predictably and it is possible that lh damage also occurred due to your car rear ending it. You dont know that it was damaged before. You did the right thing by stopping and accepting responsibility and it is perhaps due to this that the guy also took up the trouble of sending the car to the service centre and claiming insurance. It must be very distressing for the owner when a 45 day old car is damaged. He will also be losing out on the no claim bonus. Don't be impatient with him.

I totally second your opinion here. Thanks. I am pretty sure, we would expect a similar thing in return

Originally Posted by Warwithwheels

You are not obliged to pay even a dime to that guy. Ask him to claim it from his insurance or file a FIR and claim it from your TP.

If you are asked to pay for the damages, then why did he insure his car at all?

Hello,

Ideally, that's indeed the procedure and Akshay has nothing to fear about however, is that an ethical choice? Would we expect a similar treatment if, our car was rear-ended?

Unfortunately these procedures in India are way too cumbersome and it's best to take responsiblity and help the other person.

That said, even if we go by the standard way of claiming through Akshay's insurance, he would lose his NCB, I guess. So, that more or less equates to the same thing, no?

-Shivang Gandotra

[Warwithwheels]

Originally Posted by MetalBuff

Unfortunately these procedures in India are way too cumbersome and it's best to take responsiblity and help the other person.

I don't buy this argument at all.

Accidents happen just like that. It doesn't differentiate between a brand new car and a 10 year old car.

In this case, am sure Akshay has not intentionally caused the damage. It was just an accident. And moreover he owed up his mistake and as a good gesture agreed to bear the cost of damage to the extent caused by him.

However, the liva owner not being reasonable and understanding enough is trying to push the entire burden of the replacement on Askshay, which sounds ridiculous to me.

When people are so greedy and unreasonable, why on earth should we still go that extra mile and help them out?

And I am bored of him lying. I would have happily paid for the damage but I dont want to now. Is it ok to tell him to go the legal way and try get his 6500 and I am done with him?

He also says that his car was in the shop for 4 days and that the dicky was touhing the stepney and all that was fixed. The bill doesnt have anything of that sort (only bumper and painting) and it clearly states Car In date is 4th feb and Out date is 6th Feb.