[Tony2298]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I see it differently. There is a speed limit and you are obliged to stick to it. If you don't you are likely to find yourself fined. It is entirely up to you. It is totally avoidable too.

Respected Sir, this is where the problem lies, we're totally honest citizens who completely abide by the law of land and never ever break them voluntarily but these speeding tickets have become a nuisance to an extent that it has led me to believe that authorities are misusing the technology a bit too much in the name of road safety only to penalise the road users off guard. I'm all for adhering to speed limits but the RTO/Police etc should clearly mention the fact that there's a limit and offenders will be prosecuted, simple signage boards are all what we demand so that we're informed of the limit, how do I know an arrow straight section of a highway has a speed limit of 30/40/50kmph when other parts are assumed to have 80-100kmph?!

I have never understood why the government not doing certain things should grant me an exception to break the law. I think it is lack of a solid moral compass. What you do and don't should be based on your own values. Not what others (e.g. Government, police) does or does not.

Never have I mentioned anywhere that I demand an authorty of breaking the law in response to flaws of government, that's an utter foolishness and typical psychopath thinking. If we're living in a country, using the public roads we've to comply with the laws of land 100% but when we see honest citizens like us being penalised left, right and centre for these petty reasons and that too without installation of warning boards to indicate the revised/current speed limit for the road, it more or less feels like a money minting scheme than anything else, also equal punishment is what is also expected by law enforcement whereas we see mass disregard of rules by errant two wheelers doing all sort of illegal activities like tripling, riding without helmet and riding on the wrong side which are much more dangerous than say driving at 55kmph on 50kmph zone. I hope you understand the reason of my agony.

I know nothing will change, and even after approaching challan grievance redressal I've no hopes left from the authorities, also please mind these tickets are issued by MoRTH and not MH Traffic Police. For now RadarBot is the only solution and if even that doesn't work I'm gonna just have to incorporate these tickets as a travel expense apart from fuel and tolls.

Thank you
Tony

[Marky_98]

Originally Posted by NomadSK

Once I was challaned for not having a black strip on my headlight while crossing Punjab in the daylight. The cop told me its a law to have those strips. I was like OK, but I'm driving in the day when headlights won't be used and by the time the sun would set, I will be cozy at my home.

Cops - But you can and we have to challan you.

The cops were most probably trying to meet their qouta and you were just out of luck (couldn't find any other reason to challan you). They aren't even bothered by those blinding auxiliary lights on cars and two wheelers, let alone a rule that I haven't seen anyone follow. Not a single vehicle in my family garage has this strip on headlight and not once any cop said anything about it.

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

The car / bike speedometers have 10% positive error. 83KMPH on radar gun would mean you are showing 90KMPH on speedo. This positive error is to ensure that vehicles follow speed limit.

You can check the positive error using any GPS Speedometer.

In total agreement with you, i would like to add an inherent issue of the calibration of radar guns and the technology they use. These guns also have an error in measurement all the times which is required to be within a specific range and this requires re-calibration at proper intervals. We all know that the chance of re-calibration being done are very slim. This necessitates the provision of tolerance to be provided. It is safe to estimate that about 50% of drivers challaned for overspeed, are challaned for exceeding the limit by 1-5 km/h, which is the amount of error that a speed gun can produce easily.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I see it differently. There is a speed limit and you are obliged to stick to it. If you don't you are likely to find yourself fined. It is entirely up to you. It is totally avoidable too.

I have never understood why the government not doing certain things should grant me an exception to break the law. I think it is lack of a solid moral compass. What you do and don't should be based on your own values. Not what others (e.g. Government, police) does or does not.

I agree with your views more or less. Its the lack of proper signage that is more frustating than anything else. Most of the speed limit signs ,especially with speeds on lower side, are partially hidden behind the plantation done on the medians and sides of the roads, making them hard to notice. Most of the mobile radars are stationed at these locations as they know that the signage is barely visible and there is a sharp drop in the speed limit. Moreover, on multi lane roads with high volume of traffic there is a high chance of missing the signange on the left side of the road, more if there are heavy vehicles present. Isn't it wrong on the side of the government? Shouldn't they place bigger signs with better visiblity. I was travelling on Mumbai-Pune expressway last night and I noticed a couple of spots where the signs were covered by the plants.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I see these sort of rants all the time on all the car forums all over the world. Irrespective which country there are always those who believe the government should be doing all kinds of stuff, e.g. Repair roads, better signage before they should penalise peoples for speeding.

I personally feel the consternation here is more because of the stark contrast in pursuing on one aspect of the law vs all others.

1. The speed limits themselves are designed very unscientifically - with limits being dramatically lower in some sections than they ought to be - case in point being the super fast Khandala section which can easily support 80 kmph but has been artificially neutered to 50 kmph. Similarly within Mumbai, 30 kmph at JJ flyover when it could easily be at least 50 kmph. There are numerous such examples and they are invariably combined with speed cams to milk the anomaly.

2. Bad signage combined with random and sudden lowering of speed limits.

3. Badly enforced highway driving conditions where you are sharing space with completely highway unroadworthy trucks crawling at 30 kmph on an “expressway”. Or taxis and cars driving at 60 kmph (at sections with 100 kmph limits) continuously on the right overtaking lane. This (unroadworthy vehicles plying highways) is completely legal by the way for one, and their lane discipline is completely unenforced by authorities. I cannot ride my 130 HP bike on an expressway (its off limits) that can easily operate at the sensible speed limit but there’s nothing stopping these 30 kmph trucks from plying the same highway which can’t even climb the ghat section without causing a 30 min delay for all vehicles.

4. Selective enforcement against those who are fully compliant with law while numerous others get away with zero consequence due to rampant illegal plates being adopted by such owners.

I can go on with more such examples. When an entire system of properly licensed drivers driving in largely compliant and predictable highway and road conditions operates (like perhaps in most parts of the West) I agree with you. But when a completely banana republic environment that is part created, part ignored and part tolerated by the government due to either its inaction / apathy / corruption exists and one microcosm of road users are disproportionately penalised, it causes this consternation. At least that’s why I see it in this part of the world.

Another example - it’s well known of really how spectacularly bad and dangerous our road conditions can be on account of potholes etc. I have no choice but to have some sort of Aux enhanced lights on my bike to avoid an untoward incident on a dimly lit highway. But I am fully at the mercy of any cop who may fine me any time on account of these “modified and illegal” supplementary lights. At the same time, in my locality, we have gone to a number of Cops at the highest level repeatedly identifying the absolute menace of 100s of illegally double and even triple parked two wheelers and wrong side riding by “locals” to absolutely no avail. No action is taken despite all authorities being fully aware of this and these are serious hazards and accidents waiting to happen. Where is law enforcement needed here despite repeated pleas. Again - leads to the frustration of one section of motorists being penalised for revenue targets while others that have protective patronage for various reasons getting away scotfree.

[Joe367]

There was a setting in the navigation app in the old Renault medianav unit where it beeps every time car goes over the speed limit of that particular section. I remember this because in the highway there were so many sections with speed limits like 30kmph or 50kmph. The car kept on beeping and we had to turn it off. I thought the map was outdated but was surprised to see sign boards along the way that matched what the media nav was showing. It didn't make any sense at all - driving at such speeds on such a wide and straight road. I would be mad if i get a challan for driving over 50kmph in such a road.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I see these sort of rants all the time on all the car forums all over the world. Irrespective which country there are always those who believe the government should be doing all kinds of stuff, e.g. Repair roads, better signage before they should penalise peoples for speeding.


Jeroen

Where there is signage that is damaged/hidden/masqueraded, or in many cases no signage at all, and in every single case no uniform law followed in this country,

In April 2018, the Union Ministry of Road Transport and Highways fixed the maximum speed limit on expressways at 120 km/h, for national highways at 110 km/h, and for urban roads at 70 km/h for M1 category of vehicles. The M1 category includes most passenger vehicles which have fewer than 8 seats.

[Davezzy]

It seems like RTO, Traffic Police etc are on a money-minting scheme starting from the new year, if charging hefty tolls for poor quality roads marred with diversion wasn't enough they have now started keeping speed guns on smooth stretches of the NH48 since they know people would speed up to make up for the time lost while managing diversions.

I think, these speed guns should be put into use by officers right before important intersections and junctions on the highway. Especially in places where accidents/collisions often take place due to overspeeding. Because I don't think I can resist myself from speeding on those smooth stretches after sailing through a series of deep potholes, bad patches and diversions. By using these gadgets on a smooth stretch with minimal traffic and very less activity, it feels like the officers are trying to milk money from people rather than using it for its intended purpose (To minimize the accidents caused due to speeding). But if the officers are going to use this method to milk money from people (Fining people for speeding on smooth stretches). While some may stop overspeeding completely, the others will definitely start coming up with their solutions (Radar detectors, fake or no license plates at all, etc) which will absolutely destroy the purpose of this technology. But if the officers use these at the appropriate places, there is a justifiable reason for the people to avoid overspeeding and maintain their speeds below the limits in these specific stretches.

This is just my view on how these gadgets can be used by the law enforcement to maximize the results from these. While there may be some exceptions, most of the people will adhere to it as they value their safety more. And in this case, only the ones who don't bother about their own safety or other's will be fined. So, it makes sense and people might actually start welcoming these kind of technologies in india instead of hating on it.
Thank you!!!

[GeeTee TSI]

I respectfully disagree with the OP.

Keeping all the valid rants and accusations aside for a moment, a speed limit is set up to minimise accidents on a specific stretch, period. Unfortunately, in our country we believe in individual judgement than signages.

I cannot believe a discussion condoning speeding is even taking place in this forum.

[sagaranjos]

If you are over-speeding and get caught, there is no point complaining about it.
I do think private safety should not be regulated by the government and find fines for seat-belts and helmets stupid. But till they are required, I wear them.

[Fuldagap]

On a side note to this thread, this popped up somewhere on the internet.

[Tony2298]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

On a side note to this thread, this popped up somewhere on the internet.

Reminded me of this hilarious comical rant by Azeem Banattwalla, recommend you to watch the whole video if you haven't already done, also he covered a similar article from 9:20 part of the video. Could draw a lot of parallels being an extensive road user of MH.

https://youtu.be/L_81ZtoOsSY?si=73X9UcoSyhPyEnbi

Thank you
Tony

[somersault]

I am probably a minority here. But speed challans are for specific reasons. We need to follow the speed limits. This is for the safety of not just us but fellow travelers and other cars.

BTW, this is coming from a person who just paid Rs 2,000 speed challan for violation in the Nashik Rural area after the Samruddhi highway travel coming from Nagpur to Mumbai. I probably missed the 60 KM limit board and was fined for 88 KM.

Before that I had three challans on the Bandra Worli sea link for 83-86 KM range (limit 80 KM) in 2017. It definitely improved my style and made my driving safe. Such that I never had a speed challan between 2017 to this one in 2024.

Is it OP's case that the speed limit on the road was not visible significantly during the travel and he was fined? Now a days, on most major roads, speed limits are displayed prominently.

[alphamike_1612]

EDIT - I seem to have gone OT here, but I definitely needed to rant. Mods, delete the inappropriate parts, if any. Thank you.

Have people here not heard of speed traps? Or are we so innocent that we trust everything is la-la in this country?

A speed trap is a location where the local administration decides is a good place to catch drivers speeding and impose artificially low speed limits with the sole purpose of increasing revenue.

It is just one of the ways that the Police make money off you.

No one here is condoning the usage of speed limits, we are condoning the usage of unscientific speed limits or limits that were enforced back when the road was built and never updated since then.

If I am caught by a speed cam, I am most definitely pursuing it to the end, starting with the last verified calibration date of the equipment to the competence of the officer who handled the camera on the day of the offence and the legality of the speed limit itself.

Having said all this, I know how the lower Indian judiciary works and the low low position (if any) I have on the totem pole.

I do not know how many here have been pulled up in an income tax scrutiny, but the amount of detail that those officers go into to "prove" tax fraud took place is astounding. I intend to fully exercise my rights to ensure I am not being treated unfairly.

A few days ago, I was pulled over for apparently jumping a red light. Even before I got out of the car, a picture was taken. I had a dashcam and showed them the footage showing the green light clear as day when I went past the light, had I not had that footage, it was me versus them, and guess who's winning?

Despite me being right as day, I have been regularly checking the mParivahan app to ensure these corrupt goons don't raise a challan online just to meet their quota. (They are notoriously famous for this). Tell me where else in the developed world do I have to sit in fear because I did the right thing?

A democracy is built on the voices of those who question everything. And while I seem to be living in a banana republic, I intend to exercise what little rights I have left, instead of meekly submitting to them.

I am sorry to say this, but this is also victim shaming and is no different from the victim shaming that happens to survivors of other offences that I do not want to mention here.

[Kiyon]

I noticed the same situation on NH75 between Hassan and Bengaluru. During my return journey to Bangalore on January 6th, I saw fines being collected back-to-back within a span of just 30 km, with two speed checks along the way. Around 5 PM, somewhere near Hirisave (after Hassan, heading towards Bengaluru), I experienced this firsthand.

About 200 meters before the first speed gun, a BYD car overtook me and ended up being flagged down, while I was allowed to pass. At that moment, I was cruising at around 85-90 km/h. It’s possible the other car blocked my visibility to the speed gun, sparing me by sheer luck. I also observed out of nowhere just before the point the speed limit was reduced to 60 (May be a speed trap as mentioned in the thread) and there was no intersection or anything.. I was confused as it was a pretty straight road ahead..

Shortly after, I casually asked my co-passenger what the chances were of encountering another speed check before we reached Bengaluru. He confidently said, “None.” But within the next 30 km, we were proven wrong! There was another speed check, with several cars lined up to pay fines. Fortunately, luck was on my side again—the officer holding the speed gun was on a break and had stopped checking vehicles. But i wasnt speeding..

However, I must say the signage on this section of the highway is very confusing. At every intersection or divider gap, the speed limit abruptly drops to 40 km/h. Beyond that, there are no clear indications of how far the limit applies or when we can safely return to 80 km/h. In some places, the limit changes to 60 km/h without any consistency.

It’s evident that the primary goal of these checks isn’t road safety but rather meeting monthly targets. Meanwhile, truly hazardous issues like vehicles with non-functional tail lights and farm vehicles, two wheelers traveling in the wrong direction are rampant and unaddressed.

[WhiteKnight]

I see multiple unwanted references and misinformation. Trying to shed some light

Originally Posted by Tony2298

Hello all

It seems like RTO, Traffic Police etc are on a money-minting scheme starting from the new year, if charging hefty tolls for poor quality roads marred with diversion wasn't enough they have now started keeping speed guns on smooth stretches of the NH48 since they know people would speed up to make up for the time lost while managing diversions.

First statement- "It seems like RTO, Traffic Police etc are on a money-minting scheme". It is an unwanted allegation against government officials, that too in a public forum.

The question should be whether the RTO, Traffic police minted money without you breaking any rules. If so, that is a serious matter.

Originally Posted by Tony2298

The victim in question is yours truly who has been issued two speeding tickets consecutively, all from mobile speed guns, I did spot a couple of RTO jeeps adjacent to the highway but they had their trunks closed without any visible personnel around the jeep, it seems like they've found a better camera which can work even at a distance hiding in the background and catching the cars off guard.

Nothing wrong, unless you were overspending in your own private property. The real questions to ask are

• Were you over speeding?
• Were there sign board indicating the speed limit that is different from the designated speed limit on the category of the road one were driving in?

Originally Posted by Tony2298

This is what makes me really frustrated, for law enforcement authorities car owners are a very easy target, first of all the current taxation terrorism feels like as if we're committing a grievous crime by helping the economy when we buy cars and even after paying ridiculous high amount for fuels and tolls, if we try to keep a good speed on the highway(read 80-100kph) we're penalised for that, yes speeding is one of the important factors for road fatalities but equally dangerous factors are defective road layout, presence of deep potholes on middle of a highway, presence of large number of unfit vehicles with non-functional lights, widespread non-usage of helmets by two wheelers who have the guts of riding the wrong way on middle of a highway, all these factors combine to cause accidents.

I'm sorry to say this is just mixing too many things, without any meaning.

• Speed limits are speed limits, and everyone is bound to follow the same. Should the speed limit be increase? May be, but that is a legislative issue, please campaign for the same, if one feel so.
• Are we paying too much tax? May be. It is a personal perspective. Whether one like it or not, as long as one is a citizen, he/he/them need to abide.
• Is anyone who pays tax is allowed to overspeed? I am not aware.
• How did two wheeler riders develop the guts to ride? I have no idea.

[GeeTee TSI]

Originally Posted by alphamike_1612

EDIT - I seem to have gone OT here, but I definitely needed to rant. Mods, delete the inappropriate parts, if any. Thank you.

Fundamentally, it is about exceeding a published speed limit. It is pretty obvious that both of these should be indisputable and not be subjected to a fast one pulled by cops.