[itwasntme]

First 20 km to be free on tolled roads? GoI notifies amended toll collection rules.

https://www.businesstoday.in/india/s...334-2024-09-10

https://www.hindustantimes.com/busin...962190554.html

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

First 20 km to be free on tolled roads? GoI notifies amended toll collection rules.

Just enticing stuff to show that GPS based toll is beneficial.

Fastag system could have been made to work with vehicles not even slowing down, but we still have tollgates. If that was to catch offenders, then what is stopping them from trying the same with the GPS system? So we will have tollgates with the GPS system too?

Just baby steps to a day when you may even be charged for moving your car two blocks away.

[professor.march]

What about privacy? Satellite will be tracking the car at all times, irrespective of whether we are on a toll road or not.

The proposed hybrid system seems best. People can use the system that suits them the best.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

GNSS Rollout Plan in India:
This method of toll collection is already in use in several European countries, where it has proven to be highly effective.
]

To the best of my knowledge GPS toll collection is only used in five European countries and only for heavy trucks! A very limited numbers of vehicles. Nobody has implemented it for regular cars, As far as I’m aware.

Jeroen

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by professor.march

What about privacy? Satellite will be tracking the car at all times, irrespective of whether we are on a toll road or not.

The proposed hybrid system seems best. People can use the system that suits them the best.

You are already tracked on toll roads at every toll booth. I hope we can disable GNSS when we want.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

To the best of my knowledge GPS toll collection is only used in five European countries and only for heavy trucks! A very limited numbers of vehicles. Nobody has implemented it for regular cars, As far as I’m aware.

Jeroen

Scale is not a problem for India. We have done huge things like Aadhar, UPI etc Good that we are using the word GNSS (generic term) instead of GPS ( US implementation).

GPS accuracy for mobiles is few metres. Not sure how it will work if you are on service road which is very close to main highway like the Mysuru-Bengaluru highway.

[Turbanator]

Any idea how they plan to implement it?

I could not find any relevant info. What type of hardware will be required, costs etc? Will the new automobiles fit with it and what will be the challenges to such implementation? Or will it be E-sim-based, plug-and-play?

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Any idea how they plan to implement it?

I could not find any relevant info. What type of hardware will be required, costs etc? Will the new automobiles fit with it and what will be the challenges to such implementation? Or will it be E-sim-based, plug-and-play?

New automobiles will need to come with some hardware. Even now quite a few cars come with 'connected' tech where they have inbuilt GPS to track location. The same hardware can be modified to fit the new needs. However, I am thinking how Govt will ensure toll collection- how will authorities ensure that cars are having 'linked deductible balance' in whatever wallet/ bank linked to the mechanism for toll deduction. Clearly means toll gates will still be there to catch the defaulters.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Any idea how they plan to implement it?

I could not find any relevant info. What type of hardware will be required, costs etc? Will the new automobiles fit with it and what will be the challenges to such implementation? Or will it be E-sim-based, plug-and-play?

I am not aware of any standard for these systems, so unlikely any car manufacturer is going to built this into their cars anytime soon. I am not sure to what extend current manufacturer tracking systems can be used. If anything they will need to be modified.

One of the challenges is retrofitting every car on the road with such a device.
So essentially getting an aftermarket device fitted to every car out there.

With an average car age of 11-12 years here in Europe the biggest challenge is retrofitting the old cars!

It needs to be wired into the car power supply and it needs to be positioned in such a way it will have uninterrupted communication with the satellites. So it might need an extra antenna on some cars too. I have seen solution whereby the device is stuck on the driver window, much like a navigation device and simply plugged into the cigarette lighter. That might be a temporary solution to get people, or rather older cars, going! Nobody is going to stick any electronic boxes onto my classic and highly original oldtimers!

The choice of OBU (on board unit) is very much part of the (political) choice of how the system is to be used. Now and in the future. Of course, here in Europe politicians are dreaming about dynamic road pricing. E.g. you don’t pay a fixed road tax. But you pay every time you use your car, the amount based on your route, the types of roads, day of the week. Time of the day.

There is also the not so small matter of how you are doing the financial transactions. Two methods, essentially the OBU does it, or it is done in the backend. Pros and cons for both approaches, but require very different hardware and software in the car and the back end.

And of course, it must be installed in a tamper proof fashion. So it can not be easily accessible.

Given how many threads we have on the forum with electrical problems due to installation of aftermarket accessories installation we might want to open a special “my GNSS drained the battery” thread forth with.

Google GNSS OBU and you will get a bewildering amount of response and price ranges!
Jeroen

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Any idea how they plan to implement it?

I could not find any relevant info. What type of hardware will be required, costs etc? Will the new automobiles fit with it and what will be the challenges to such implementation? Or will it be E-sim-based, plug-and-play?

Our company car fleet comes with AVL (Automatic vehicle locator), this is GPS enabled, at any point of time the vehicle can be located remotely and monitored for its speed and various parameters anywhere in the country (no idea if it can be tracked out of country), extremely helpful when we are working in very remote desert locations and can be tracked. The cars can be remotely locked and switched off. Even we get company motor violation tickets if we overspeed in company cars and effects the PMP, hence hardly anyone likes to drive company cars.

There's a GPS beacon installed in all vehicles, which sits in the corner on the dashboard just behind the windshield, powered by battery, there's a small illuminated green LED.

Checkout this Link

[AJ56]

Yes our phones and car’s nav system can be hacked to obtain our location but this is beyond Orwellian where the State has a mandated GPS chip pre installed in every new car on sale.

[arijitkanrar]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

You are already tracked on toll roads at every toll booth. I hope we can disable GNSS when we want.



Scale is not a problem for India. We have done huge things like Aadhar, UPI etc Good that we are using the word GNSS (generic term) instead of GPS ( US implementation).

GPS accuracy for mobiles is few metres. Not sure how it will work if you are on service road which is very close to main highway like the Mysuru-Bengaluru highway.

I doubt if implement it will use GPS which is not in the hands of GoI. It most likely will use NavIC/IRNSS (Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System). Just like GPS, it probably has different accuracy levels based on what signals the receivers are programmed to use.

[filmaka]

Will it work on a heavy cloudy day.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by filmaka

Will it work on a heavy cloudy day.

GPS does. Putting it inside a steel box is not ideal, but weather should not make much of a difference.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by arijitkanrar

I doubt if implement it will use GPS which is not in the hands of GoI. It most likely will use NavIC/IRNSS (Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System). Just like GPS, it probably has different accuracy levels based on what signals the receivers are programmed to use.

I thought most if not all of the GNSS/GPS chipsets all have all systems enabled? You would need to develop something specially for the Indian market?

If Indian pilots trust GNSS navigation, I would think an Indian car driver should be able to trust it too.

The great thing is you get far better coverage, accuracy, reliability and repeatibility. Which is important if you want to charge the users based on distance driven.

Unless of course the Indian system offers functionality that the others don’t offer?

Jeroen

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I thought most if not all of the GNSS/GPS chipsets all have all systems enabled? You would need to develop something specially for the Indian market?

If Indian pilots trust GNSS navigation, I would think an Indian car driver should be able to trust it too.

The great thing is you get far better coverage, accuracy, reliability and repeatibility. Which is important if you want to charge the users based on distance driven.

Unless of course the Indian system offers functionality that the others don’t offer?

Jeroen

Its true. Usually chipsets support all constellations. But in mobile, there is a directive to use NAViC and operators have started asking for it, on the network side for synchronization. Maybe they will do the same here.

Usually using multiple constellations improves reliability and the systems uses all transparently unless we turn off some.

I still think there will be some loss of signal now and then and in toll systems, it should be handled by the implementation.