[Peterf]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Exactly my point. The current Creta and Verna represent the minimum acceptable highway dynamics for expressway driving. You need to experience cars with genuinely good suspensions to feel the difference in the depth of engineering. Vehicles like Compass, Hexa, Harrier/Safari, XUV700, Tucson, CRV, Superb, Kodiaq etc all drive F-L-A-T on the expressway at 110-130. Huge difference against the likes of Creta, City, Baleno and Fortuner.

Spot on observation. I have driven multiple times on this highway with my Slavia/i20 n line and can easily maintain over 110 most of the time if the traffic permitted.

To be honest even in my older creta with correct tyre pressures did not feel that uncomfortable, definitely nothing scary.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

If there is a bad patch on a good road - it usually wont spread like cancer but rather it will get fixed.

I know this because I travel quite a bit and I remember those spots because of my rather lack of time - it is very important that I make conscious effort to remember each such obstacle to prepare for a gradual slowdown, in a few months they are all ironed out.

What about a dip or a compression on the road, that too mid corner? One should be able to see to be able to prepare for it. More often than not, the patch to iron out the dip ends up as a bump.

What about a protruding section of the guardrail on a culvert or bridge, again in a corner? Cyrus Mistry was a victim to one such mistake.

This is a new expressway I am talking about above, which got inaugurated a year ago and have had these flaws from the beginning till today. Now imagine this on an unlit unmarked expressway which was opened up before it can be termed ready.

By asking for reduced speed limit, you are encouraging government to offer you poorer quality highway which would take more time, consume more fuel and is more likely to have accidents.

I guess the ask is to ask the contractors to build better flawless highways, designed as per the desired speed limit and, review them thoroughly before opening it up to the public. If it requires rework post a review then it should be done by the contractor to the perfection before the traffic is let on the road.


Once the road is open to public, any road legal car should be able to maintain the speed limit comfortably irrespective of the car design/type/dynamics. Be it a Maruti or a Mercedes.

[smasher]

We have another kind of problem, related to the same topic-the speed limit on our roads.

The new expressway between Bangalore & Mysore is good enough for 120+ speeds.

6 main lanes, 4 service lanes. The main lane has nearly 1 car curb space on each side and no sharp turns whatsoever. It is an access-controlled expressway.


Yet the speed limit is 100 kms/hour on most stretches, in some places it is 80 or 60 which is painfully low.

When this new road opened, there was no restriction whatsoever for the first few weeks. People were doing crazy speeds much beyond their vehicle's capabilities. This led to many accidents and deaths.

Because of these incidents, the speed limit was set to 100. But now it is a pathetic situation. We see many cars/trucks and buses doing just 60+ on overtaking only lane, many cars doing 70/80 in other lanes. Those who are doing legal speeds need to zig-zag between these slow vehicles which is highly dangerous. Now and then, there are vehicles doing crazy speeds zooming past you (160-200 range).

Traffic protocols & lane discipline need to be educated and enforced, otherwise no amount of infrastructure is going to help.

[MadinMumbai]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

By asking for reduced speed limit, you are encouraging government to offer you poorer quality highway which would take more time, consume more fuel and is more likely to have accidents.

1.Nobody has asked for a reduction in speed.
2. It’s a badly made highway. Design and execution, where standards are set for a safe 120 kmph speed drive, are woefully inadequate.
3. It’s a fantastic concept, and its existence is a boon, that’s not at debate or doubt here.

It’s simple- two things can be true. The expressway is great but its execution is rubbish. It doesn’t compare with any of the other, similarly designed, projects. Saying cars are inefficient, or makers are putting out defective products, aims to shift the focus away from a poorly executed project. I don’t see why the comment on a bumpy road has become an advertisement for higher value cars.

[Kanboy]

I have driven multiple vehicles multiple times on the EPE. Well initially when it got inaugurated the road was quite exquisite to the extent I preferred it to the Western Periphery. But as traffic grew I realised the road started to deteriorate quite swiftly, and that too, to a very bad state that they have already started repairs and filling of pot holes since early 2023. Whereas early expressways like the Delhi Agra Expressway is still in an amazing condition without needing much repairs
Many bumps (not pot holes) that exist today were not present when EPE was built. I have driven at extremely high speeds in European as well as Indian manufactured cars in the initial days and it was a pleasure to drive on the EPE without much fuss. But now it's a horror to drive on it in any sort of vehicle. I have seen compact sedans rear ends lift of after crossing a bump almost loosing control. You need to keep an eye out to slow down on bad patches.
India is constructing 1000s of kms a year, but at the cost of quality.
If anyone visits the Trans Haryana Expressway, do notice there is a 20 to 30 km patch where the road is butter smooth. On research I found out that was constructed by a Chinese firm in JV and rest of the road by 2 Indian Co's. One could feel where the tender document was completely followed verbatim.

[Redex]

Speed limits are what they say "Limits", they are not "Targets". Just because the limit says 120kmh it does not mean that every vehicle can drive at that speed safely. As the "driver" you choose your own speed, which is appropriate for the conditions of the road, condition of your own vehicle, number of passengers, age of vehicle etc. You are "limited" to the maximum speed limit posted.
As regards the actual quality of the road surface, you just have to work out where the funding went. I think you will find that as little as 10 to 15% of funds provided to complete any project actually "arrive" at the project. A long queue of officials, interested parties and sub contractors siphon of a little bit as the work passes through their hands.
Too many projects are done the cheap. Better control is needed to ensure that full funding goes to the project and not the pockets of the chosen few. There should be penalties for failing to meet standards that have been paid for !!!
I don't really understand why most people think that smaller engined vehicles cannot travel at 120kmh. Please give examples of modern cars that cannot achieve 120kmh.
These small capacity engines are very rev happy and can easily run at 4/5,000 rpm all day long. They are more like motorcycles that cruise at 5/6,000 rpm all day long..
It just doesn't feel right to run an engine at that speed if you are accustomed to driver larger engines cars.
My outboard boat motor 800cc runs at 6,000 rpm all day long. These engine speeds seem high to me as I drive a diesel that rarely goes over 2,900 rpm and I cruise at 110/120kmh. My son's 1.2 20 year old Wagon R sits at 120 kmh easily.
Regards Neil (qualified vehicle mechanic over 50 years experience).
My 5th car was a base model 1969 MK1 Ford Escort 1.1 which I regularly drove to Scotland from 1975, a round trip of over 1,500 kms cruising at up to 120kmh. No idea of the rpm as there was no gauge, or even a temperature gauge!!!

[saubi2299]

I have driven extensively on WPE, where speeds of 100-120 can be easily maintained. Agreed that there are sudden dips and joints where you will get a jolt but those can be managed if you are keeping an eye on the road. Also, it’s mostly the right most lane with these issues and the middle lane is usually good. I have driven there in Fluidic Verna which is not known for its driving dynamics but there was nothing to complain about. Best road I have seen in Agra Lucknow expressway where speed limit is only 100 but one can travel much faster.

[Rahkehs]

I think patch work has been going on EPE and now the adulations have been taken care off to a great extent. Last I drove on EPE in January and could easily maintain 110 KMPH!

[SLK]

Originally Posted by Redex

Speed limits are what they say "Limits", they are not "Targets". Just because the limit says 120kmh it does not mean that every vehicle can drive at that speed safely.

That's not correct. The objective of a speed limit is to define the max speed which can be considered safe for this road, considering the surface, design and intrusions along the way.

My take on the topic:
For a car that can cruise at 200kmph in Germany, can can't keep its composure at 120kmph on our expressways, something is seriously wrong.

The Delhi KMP is a perfect example, 120 is not right for the road, both for its quality and design. Delhi-Mumbai Expressway, is also catching up fast with its deteriorating surface. The Yamuna E-way on the other hand has been much better, because there was no NHAI involved in construction?

I've experienced M800 at 120 consistently and Alto 1.1 at even 160 on the speedo back in the day, so when you adjust your risk appetite and vibration threshold (aka, let the adrenalin take over) a lot of people can feel that 120 is definitely ok at these poorly designed surfaces.

In a commercial sense, the toll they charge us is fairly high and advertised as cost to these perfect roads, but they are far from that, often make you feel shortchanged.

[SeniorC]

I believe our agencies are in a race to complete the expressways and quality is given a go by. The newly partially opened Delhi Mumbai expressway is bad in patches and some alignments are too bad. The top surface quality should be smooth. I remember driving on some Chinese highways and found their design, surface smoothness and median plants / dividers to be awesome. Driving at about 120 kmph feels like driving at about 70 kmph. Infact many times one has to look at the speedometer to confirm the high speed. The surface is smooth as silk.

Hope India gets off the horse of creating super tight deadlines for construction and rather focus on quality of roads too.

[Redex]

Originally Posted by SLK

That's not correct. The objective of a speed limit is to define the max speed which can be considered safe for this road, considering the surface, design and intrusions along the way.

So that means I can drive at 120kmh if the road is covered with 15cms of ice and snow ?
Of course not, you have to use driver discretion. There are plenty of roads with 30kmh limits where it is impossible to exceed 20kmh safely.
The posted limit is 120kmh, if your vehicle cannot handle the road surface at those speeds, you have to use common sense and lower your speed. Plenty of people are driving at 120kmh on that stretch of road.
Regards Neil
My 1998 Ford Explorer 4.0 V6, would have sailed down that road, no problems.

[phi]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

In the early 2000s when I was in college, Coimbatore gets the L&T Tollway, a Bypass with roads like a runway! Me at the wheel of our Esteem - Bliss!

Now in 2024 we are talking about 80 kmph and 100 kmph being unsafe, I think it is all a matter of perspective.

Sweet memories! A certain person in his early twenties, in his first car, an 8-year old, used, Maruti 800, testing top speed on the barren Nilambur stretch of the Coimbatore L&T bypass, with windows closed, AC off, on a hot afternoon, sweating, the vehicle grunting and and shivering at its limit, still going straight like an arrow, flat like a carrom disc.

Ten years later, he would chase that same thrill in a newer, more refined Hyundai i20, darting along the partially completed Hyderabad ring road, still enjoying his new car and marveling at the quality of the highway, while being awed by the Audi that zips ahead of him and disappears on the horizon.

He would never try that again - even with his far more powerful and stable SUV. He the wiser, tempered by age and wisdom. Speed and sound of development are much higher, but most roads, though newer, do not feel the same. He would leave that top speed on paper, whether it be car's or the road's.

(Disclaimer: None of the above is meant to condone street racing of any kind).

[raptor_diwan]

Originally Posted by SeniorC

I believe our agencies are in a race to complete the expressways and quality is given a go by.

Exactly my thought. With the elections looming and the need to ensure a steady flow of income in crores every year, the focus tends to be on completing projects quickly to start the revenue stream rather than prioritizing their quality.

[MobileThunder]

120kmph is some fancy, good-sounding number conjured up by the bosses sitting in their AC cabins.
The newer expressways are actually worse than some highways that we had a few years ago.
Please assess the capabilities of your vehicles and set your own limits and do not trust the abilities of these folks.

[MadinMumbai]

Originally Posted by Redex

The posted limit is 120kmh, if your vehicle cannot handle the road surface at those speeds, you have to use common sense and lower your speed. Plenty of people are driving at 120kmh on that stretch of road.
Regards Neil
My 1998 Ford Explorer 4.0 V6, would have sailed down that road, no problems.

This was a discussion about the quality of road surface. Which is so poor that I felt unsafe enough to reduce speed considerably. Using - Common Sense. I am sure most people arguing that the surface is uneven are deducing so by using their common sense. Somehow this is being turned into some kind of good cars vs poor cars thread. I don’t see how a newly made ‘Expressway’ can be of such poor quality and still be turned into a thread about my car is better than yours.