[rrsteer]

This is an absolutely wrong argument to make that we don't have the right cars for the stipulated speed limit. Fact is EPE is not a smooth highway at all. It is littered with undulations, dips and irregularities. No vehicle - not even an S Class - can drive flat on it.

[RunGaDa]

Originally Posted by MadinMumbai

A Fortuner ahead of us, and possibly at 120 kmph, seemed like it might be in a tennis match, rocking and rolling more than Mick Jagger.

Absolutely unfit road. This is the problem with the over hyped infra growth. Where are the standards? Unfortunately some thick brained politician won’t get that and they will barge along with their agenda.

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by GTO

There is no real science to our authorities assigning speed limits to roads, and I see blunders all the time. For instance, 30 kmph speed limit on the JJ Flyover is painstakingly slow and dare I say...dangerous too.

Agree fully. Our speed limits are not set in any kind of sensible fashion.

Also agree with those who talk about the fact that the heterogeneity of our traffic is a major reason for poor safety. Frankly, the Maruti at 80 kmph does not pose a major danger to other users (those driving at 100 or 120) but the trucks moving at 40 kmph certainly do. It is high time we impose roadworthiness requirements for using expressways - say a minimum speed of 80 kmph and any vehicle that is not capable of driving safely and taking normal curves at that speed, and stopping in say 80 metres (250 feet) from 100 kmph should not be allowed on these expressways.

Also agree that our road surfaces and construction techniques are NOT good enough - a classic example is the poorly designed roadside barrier which impaled the poor Mahindra driver.

[FiatDiesel]

Originally Posted by MadinMumbai

The road surface is bumpy beyond 80kmph, and when the car hits a joint I found it difficult keeping my lunch. At 120 kms I would imagine it being a roller coaster type ride. Anyone else feel that 120 kmph is an abstract figure, plucked out of the air to please some mantriji, and divorced for reality? I do hope other expressways are better designed else we are in for some serious traffic mess and mayhem.

I completely agree, I used it approx 2 years back for my Pune to UK trip. I had set the cruise control to 120 km/hr and had exactly same experience and comments. It’s worst high speed surface I have driven among new age expressways. Also we encountered 2 wheelers, pedestrians crossing the road and three wheelers in primary lane. One has to drive sedately rather then 120km/hr for own and other’s safety.

[Mystic]

I have done research in civil engineering and am also a petrolhead. Let me give my opinion.

1. In India, we have 120 kmph as MAXIMUM speed limit for express ways, 110 kmph for national highways and 70 kmph for urban roads for M1 category of vehicles. The M1 category includes most passenger vehicles which have fewer than 8 seats.

2. What is the quality of road construction in India as per the world standards in specifications? The answer is poor because for the obvious reasons. The Government releases the funds and related speed limits as per certain specifications for a type of road but in reality the contractor has to take care of the obvious formalities and compromises on quality.

3. Inspite of the point 2, we still have engineers who will give their life for maintenance of quality in such prestigious expressways projects India is building now (my father is one among them as he retired as Chief Engineer of Roads with Government). It is not only quality of materials that go into roads, there are a lot of so many parameters like camber etc that needs to be taken care of otherwise the car going at 120 kmph will be thrown out tangentially and we see such stunts very frequently on our express ways in India. Some express ways are too good and some are not and hence it is upto the Driver to take a call and not get carried by the power of an individual car.

Camber in Road, refers to the curvature or slope provided to the surface of a road or any other paved surface. It is designed to ensure proper drainage of water from the road surface and provide improved safety and comfort for vehicles and pedestrians.

4. There are risks involved with Indian roads in spite of a perfectly constructed expressway and 12 cylinder car, we never know if we see suddenly a person / 3 wheeler shared autos or an animal crossing the road at the most unexpected moment. I have personally travelled in multi axle Volvo buses maintained by Governments and they go at a cruising speed of 100 kmph maximum even if the vehicle is capable of higher speeds because the Govt puts an electronic control on their buses with GPS tracking. I wish if the personal vehicle drivers also not go beyond 3 digits in India. Let us drive in a defensive manner and get a chance to live for another day to our self and fellow passengers.

[URWELCOME]

120 kmph is out of question.. Undulations, dips and irregularities are the common pitfalls of any given Indian Expressway.

Same goes with Bangalore Mysore Expressway... the point where bridge meets road there is undulations. these roads are built in sections and there is a gap in between the sections causing an impact and loud sound.

[sgmuser]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Exactly my point. The current Creta and Verna represent the minimum acceptable highway dynamics for expressway driving. You need to experience cars with genuinely good suspensions to feel the difference in the depth of engineering. Vehicles like Compass, Hexa, Harrier/Safari, XUV700, Tucson, CRV, Superb, Kodiaq etc all drive F-L-A-T on the expressway at 110-130. Huge difference against the likes of Creta, City, Baleno and Fortuner.

Not acceptable that only 10-20% of the cars can fully utilize an infrastructure that is paid by 100% of the population. The quality of the roads in this section is being questioned. If 800 can do 100 kmph comfortably elsewhere then they should be able to do the same in this road. The technology used here is not really good according to many. They are very hard and also not even with joints which aren't finished smoothly. This is the root cause. For me if 70% complaint then the problem is there for sure. This finish in these roads are like the one we get on top of the bridges, where they use concrete and hard joints with gaps. One can easily feel the hardness. As simple as that. There is no point in finger pointing towards the cars suspension/ride quality.

[ShreyG]

Originally Posted by URWELCOME

Same goes with Bangalore Mysore Expressway... the point where bridge meets road there is undulations. these roads are built in sections and there is a gap in between the sections causing an impact and loud sound.

I think the speed limit there is 100km/hr.
However completely agree to your point. The Blr-Myr expressway is a stark example of abusing the infrastructure by petty, idiotic morons. Set aside the road undulations and gaps, the number of vehicles happily cruising at high speeds on the wrong side of the road just beggars belief.
The stories we see on social media maybe 10% of the actual situation. And vehicles are of varying sizes from puniest 2 wheelers to massive buses and tipper lorries. They believe that emergency lights , high beams and a blazing horn probably gives them the right to casually stroll down the wrong side on a high speed highway. Given that police patrolling is minimalistic only increases their audacity.
Sorry for the OT, but even if we have butter smooth roads, perfectly aligned joints and the right camber, 120km/hr speed limits can never be justified with pathetic and dangerous road manners (unpopular opinion but specially commercial vehicles) and such casual rule breaking.
Steep fines, it seems, can only deter the people with some common sense and a respect for the law, which is highly uncommon for our public.
Education from the grass root level (primary school onwards preferably) on road manners and safety along with stricter distribution of DLs could perhaps lead to a more civilized scenario for the future generations.

[URWELCOME]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Exactly my point. The current Creta and Verna represent the minimum acceptable highway dynamics for expressway driving. You need to experience cars with genuinely good suspensions to feel the difference in the depth of engineering..

Can't agree. The road is not fit for 120kmph. High end cars have better handling but here the issue is with the quality of the road. Road should be designed keeping in mind all vehicles.

Your point is like "Thar and jimny can do offroad so no need of roads. if you do not have Thar or Jimny its your problem..."

[RunGaDa]

Originally Posted by GTO

100 kmph for the arrow-straight Atal Setu is too low in my opinion. It should be 120 kmph.

In this case they are probably considering lower powered cars trying to speed to 120 and want to avoid tyre burst.
This also opens one point. Should they allow lower powered cars in such highways?

[NomadSK]

Design of roads and Workmanship of these roads is a simple sham in India. Let me give you few real inputs as per the experience I had with NHAI cost control and audit team for a very brief period, this was around the time when Golden Quadrilateral was in progress and the section was SMTP (Surat-Manor Tollway Project), The reason to set up this audit was that the construction cost was exponentially increasing. 3 Major contractors, Dodsal, L&T, LG engg and SKEC were awarded the contract of a section of around 200 odd kms and they had sublet their work to local/cheap agencies. This project was funded by ADB.

The road section was 2 layers of GSB, 2 layers of WMM and 2 layers of DBM of various thickness. NHAI had instructed all its senior officials from the audit department to collect samples, check the quality of the surface, interview the personnel from the contractor's depart whether they have qualified people to do the job and also check the source of the material from where aggregates sand etc etc were procured. And find the root cause for the delay and the substandard quality of the works. All these results need to be sent to the respective project directors. As there was a murmur about the road quality works and various complaints during that time.

Following were the resulting outcome;

- Inexperienced people doing the roadwork jobs, technicians had limited knowledge of the work. Even engineers deployed were inexperience and lacked the expertise.

- Main contractors have sublet the work to various cheap agencies that are ready to do the job.

- Poor quality of construction material being supplied.

- QA/QC was almost non-existent. Field labs to be set up as per the contract were a showpiece, and some of the testing equipment wasn’t calibrated.

- Using the cheap grade of bitumen.

- Dense Bituminous Macadam (DBM) mixes were consistently failing, and data at the field labs was fudged and fabricated.

The same mix design was utilized even when the source of material was changed.

- Retired NHAI officials were employed at these contractor companies. You get the gist.

- The structural section of the road was around 1m, and when coring was done, it was found to be very little. And Dodsal was blacklisted even after the re-work was carried out, and there was a delay due to this.

- Local Mafia/politicos got the sublet projects in whatever section the work was going on.

Black marketing of Bitumen, as all refineries were not producing it, and its scarcity made private players come into the picture.

Poor equipment was used for compaction, and PTR (Pneumatic) was almost non-existent. We saw a vibra roller being used for asphalt compaction and a grader used for spreading the DBM, a clear red flag. At that time, even I didn’t know what was wrong with that until the tech team elucidated me.

- Cost cutting, cutting corners, Hazardous construction practices, and not following the plan. I remember one culvert going off-centre by 1-2m, and the whole section of road was required to change the alignment. This small bridge still exists near Billimoria.

There might be many more reasons, but the technical report found out this in 3/4 months with the Audit team.

End Result - We have so-called "Expressways", which are nowhere near the requisite standards because everyone is ready to cut corners and save some cost. In fact, they become more dangerous as speed goes up and with faulty design. Driving at them at design speeds is kind of roller coaster ride, let's accept that. It's the design of the roads and the furniture around it which is the biggest safety hazard at the moment And I don't think we have to blame the cars for that. There's a cost tag attached to Safety and Quality, unless we understand this we will always be penny wise and pound foolish.

[steadfast]

120 kph does not necessitate that one has to stick to it. If someone is not comfortable should drive slower. But there are vehicles such as Compass, Harrier/ Safari, XUV, VAG group cars and premium segments which can confidently cruise at these speeds. Why punish drivers of such sorted cars by reducing speed to 100kph if someone’s car does not exhibit this confidence. It is one’s own intelligence to realise what is the right speed for them.

[DeadCenter]

Folks, the speed limit is exactly what it says it is, the limit. One can pick their speed based on comfort, vehicle capability etc., upto the limit.

Just ensure you are not driving too slow with respect to the average traffic speed around you. That can sometimes be as dangerous as driving over the limit.

[Kosfactor]

In the early 2000s when I was in college, Coimbatore gets the L&T Tollway, a Bypass with roads like a runway! Me at the wheel of our Esteem - Bliss!

Now in 2024 we are talking about 80 kmph and 100 kmph being unsafe, I think it is all a matter of perspective.

If there is a bad patch on a good road - it usually wont spread like cancer but rather it will get fixed.

I know this because I travel quite a bit and I remember those spots because of my rather lack of time - it is very important that I make conscious effort to remember each such obstacle to prepare for a gradual slowdown, in a few months they are all ironed out. Certain faults that take longer to fix or never - is the road`s alignment, the turns, the entry and exit points, if there is a bridge , they can be faulty from the start and may remain like that forever taking lives after lives till one day a new project comes and redo it for good.

Road surface? They get fixed in a matter of time, so no worries there.

By asking for reduced speed limit, you are encouraging government to offer you poorer quality highway which would take more time, consume more fuel and is more likely to have accidents.

I am pretty sure we as a country needs to go faster to catch up with a neighbor - so that is another way to think about it.

[dsr001]

I'm glad this thread got the discussion going.

1. Many patches of new Delhi - Jaipur expressway are not fit for 80+ kmph. Given that some of the parts are good enough for 120+, but the inconsistency is glaring. Travelled 8 times in Skoda Rapid
2. The EPE is very irregularly surfaced some places to you need to drop to 60 as well (depends on how many lanes available around you)

The 120 limit is a max, just so that one does not get over limit challan.

Beyond that, you're on your own, don't expect govt to keep it worthy of 120. Be glad that you have some access to some high speed roads, that's it.