[handsofsteel]

I have been riding/driving for over 26 years now without a single traffic infringement/parking violation. I’m not the kind who wilfully jumps a signal or violates a stop line. However, we are all humans and an inadvertent violation is always possible.

I was stopped one day this last Dec on my Activa for not having a HSRP in the front (rear has it). For the record, it’s a 2014 manufactured scooter which does not have an arrangement for fitment of a plate of any kind. The only thing possible in the front is a sticker. Once stopped, the cops refused to listen to reason & also discovered that my PUC was out of date by 3 days (I normally get my PUC done for 6 months, on this occasion, wife got it for 3 months only and did not notice). I was asked to pay 20000/-. To cut a long story short, they asked me for a UPI payment of 20000/-, cash payment of 3000/-(there were 3 cops) or gave the option of going to court and taking a chance there. After a prolonged remonstration with them ending with the proverbial (one I’m not proud of) janta-hai-main-kaun-hoon, I was let off with a warning. This exchange and the unreasonable demands for a fine disturbed me a lot.

Last week I got an SMS challan for jumping a red light (on a Sunday afternoon at 1400h). The fine was 5000/-. There was no accompanying photograph or evidence and the only option given was to contest the fine. I was disturbed with this and contacted a few lawyer friends. All of them asked me to just pay and keep moving. Other friends asked me to ignore this and worry about it only at the time of sale of the vehicle.
However, the fastidious me was uncomfortable with this. Delhi traffic police website also had no record of the challan. After much thought, I decided to bite the proverbial bullet and contest the fine. I got an online summons from the traffic court at Saket regarding the date (no court number or time indicated).

I reached the court at 0945h on the designated date. Hardly anyone there was aware of the court number dealing with traffic cases. Asking a few lawyers, I was able to find the court in question and reach by 1000h. I was really surprised to see that the courts were more like the typical Hollywood style (nicely done up with tasteful panelling, furniture, glass separators and air conditioning). Access was through escalators. The entire premises were reminiscent of a first world country rather than the “Jolly LLB” type of courts that I was expecting.

The court clerk told me that the Hon judge would be available only in the afternoon at 1400h. Upon being requested, he too trawled through his database and was unable to come up with any supporting/incriminating photograph against my offence. When I asked him how do I proceed hereafter, considering that nobody had any evidence, he asked me to wait a while (approx. 2 weeks) for the databases to be updated and then approach the court again. We exchanged numbers and he promised to call me once the system was updated from the traffic police side. He was kind enough to tell me that I needn’t have bothered with a visit and could’ve logged in through Webex.

Being a working day, I came back to my office. I got a call from my lawyer friend and explained the situation. He advised me to not to go by the word of the clerk and instead attend the Webex in the afternoon and personally inform the judge of the circumstances (thereby honouring the summons).

In the afternoon, I attended the Webex wherein the judge was very considerate, directed someone off camera to send me the incriminating photo (on WhatsApp) and requested me to re-log in after receiving the photo. The photograph in question, hitherto untraceable, was received within 2 minutes. It showed me squarely in the middle of traffic, stuck behind and adjacent to DTC buses (blinded to the traffic lights by both the buses).

Upon logging in again, I was asked by the judge if I wanted to contest. I told her of my prior record and pleaded guilty. She waived off the fine, passed down an admonition and moved on to the next case.

What I realised after this exercise -

1. The traffic court judges are very considerate. Almost everybody was being let off with an admonition. One guy had 7 violations, he was asked to pay Rs. 1000/- against the fine of 20,000/- against one offence and given 6 admonitions.

2. The entire thing was very convenient and streamlined. It took me more time to type this post than I probably did in the court.

3. The next time I’m stopped by a cop for something that I consider unjustified, I’m definitely not going to argue with him and am going to ask him to send the matter to court.

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[surajspai]

Honest questions-

1.What do I say to demand that I will not pay the fine on the spot? Or rather how do I frame it?

2. If I do say I will contest it, what is the worst that can happen? Other than the waste of a day and paying the full fine? Any extra penalty? Fines?

3. Will my license or vehicle be seized on the spot till I complete the process?

4. Will it be recorded in my name in police records as having appeared in court?

5. Any visits to the traffic police station?

6. Is it compulsory to have a lawyer for the process or is it enough to walk in myself?

7. I am ashamed to ask this, but, how do I read/learn about my rights about this entire matter?

8. It will go on record against my driving license in the RTO system?

9. If I'm caught in a city other than mine, what is the process? That city court?

Not looking to pick a fight with the law but I have had to grovel a few times, especially driving in Bangalore traffic.

I am a native and speak the language better than many locals, but my vehicle being from an adjacent district is a easy target for fleecing. It is even the same state registration mind you, just not a Bangalore RTO.


Most of the times I agree to pay the full fine and am offered a discount for being a good honest citizen who does not straight away try to bribe them .
Of course they will pocket the amount if I do so.

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-

1.What do I say to demand that I will not pay the fine on the spot? Or rather how do I frame it?

Ans- the traffic cop asks you to pay up on the spot. When you tell him that you do not have the money on you, he will ask you to either pay a lesser amount in cash/go to court. You can straightaway tell him, I’ll contest this and would like to go to court. You’ll get a sms shortly. He’ll also give you a printout (of the violation & the fine) on the spot.

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
2. If I do say I will contest it, what is the worst that can happen? Other than the waste of a day and paying the full fine? Any extra penalty? Fines?

Ans- as I said, it takes less than 10 mins in the court. Worst case- pay the full fine. No extra penalty.

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
3. Will my license or vehicle be seized on the spot till I complete the process?

Ans- No. nobody can seize your license.

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
4. Will it be recorded in my name in police records as having appeared in court?

Ans- traffic police and police are different. So the answer is no. 
In case you meant the traffic police, I don’t know. My guess is the incident will be an endorsement on your record whether it’s a fine or an admonition. Nobody can penalise you for going to court.

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
5. Any visits to the traffic police station?

Ans- No

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
6. Is it compulsory to have a lawyer for the process or is it enough to walk in myself?

Ans- No lawyer reqd. I checked up with a couple of other guys, they all went and pleaded guilty, came back with fines waived off and an admonition.(they had gone a year before me).

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
7. I am ashamed to ask this, but, how do I read/learn about my rights about this entire matter?

Ans- am sure the Internet has enough stuff. I went about it without any preparation whatsoever. It was completely logical and easy. My only suggestion for improvement of the process- the website doesn’t give you any choice for date of summons or mention the time. Would’ve been way better if that had been done.

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
8. It will go on record against my driving license in the RTO system?

Ans- I don’t imagine it should be any different than you paying a fine (not a bribe). I’ll keep my eyes open and check the Parivahan website wherein nothing is reflecting so far (neither the incidence nor the admonition).

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
9. If I'm caught in a city other than mine, what is the process? That city court?

Ans- No idea. In have had a case of Mumbai police sending me a challan (when my vehicle and me were at Delhi). Different make and model of vehicle too. But they sent me a photo of the alleged offence wherein the discrepancy was evident. I contested that as a grievance online (in their app). It is still outstanding but no further reminders /intimation.

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
Not looking to pick a fight with the law but I have had to grovel a few times, especially driving in Bangalore traffic.

Ans - exactly! And that’s the reason this entire thing was a refreshing change. The traffic cops bully you in the hope of some vasooli. And the scared/ignorant commoner in us more often elects to pay the amount and be done with it. Had the fine been 1000 or less, probably I too would’ve paid and be done with it. But here in Delhi, the fines are exorbitant. (One of the guys in the court pleaded guilty to using a bs4 diesel during the GRAP enforced days and was also let off with an admonition. The fine was 20,000/-. My PUC (on the scooter that i mentioned) issue, fine was 20000/-(heck, my scooter wouldn’t fetch me that amount if I were to sell it)

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
I am a native and speak the language better than many locals, but my vehicle being from an adjacent district is a easy target for fleecing. It is even the same state registration mind you, just not a Bangalore RTO.

Ans- my parents stay in Bangalore and I can imagine what you are saying.

Originally Posted by surajspai

Honest questions-
Most of the times I agree to pay the full fine and am offered a discount for being a good honest citizen who does not straight away try to bribe them .
Of course they will pocket the amount if I do so.

And that’s exactly their modus operandi.

[gischethans]

I suppose the court hearing on WebEx might only happen in metros. In a small town court, especially other than one's own, if that is possible, even I would opt for the court option. At least, I am hoping to have a say if I am not wrong.

[GTX+]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

I’ll keep my eyes open and check the Parivahan website wherein nothing is reflecting so far (neither the incidence nor the admonition).

When I recently exchanged my Honda with the Kia dealer, his colleague came back saying there were couple of challans pending, which I need to pay before the exchange formalities are completed.

Now, I had checked the parivahan site, UP traffic police & Delhi traffic police and there was no pending challan, which I showed them as well.

After some internal check, the dealer came back with the screenshot of the challan and that is when I realised that there are 2 separate websites for Delhi Traffic police and the 2 pending challans were issued by DP and they appeared in one of the 2 sites.

Yours may be a similar case.

P.S. Try searching here with the details which you may have. https://vcourts.gov.in/virtualcourt/index.php

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by gischethans

I suppose the court hearing on WebEx might only happen in metros. In a small town court, especially other than one's own, if that is possible, even I would opt for the court option. At least, I am hoping to have a say if I am not wrong.

I think, post covid, many courts have embraced online hearings. Small or big, all it needs is an app. should be interesting to know though.

Originally Posted by GTX+

When I recently exchanged my Honda with the Kia dealer, his colleague came back saying there were couple of challans pending, which I need to pay before the exchange formalities are completed.

Now, I had checked the parivahan site, UP traffic police & Delhi traffic police and there was no pending challan, which I showed them as well.

After some internal check, the dealer came back with the screenshot of the challan and that is when I realised that there are 2 separate websites for Delhi Traffic police and the 2 pending challans were issued by DP and they appeared in one of the 2 sites.

Yours may be a similar case.

P.S. Try searching here with the details which you may have. https://vcourts.gov.in/virtualcourt/index.php

The SMS that one receives regarding the traffic violation provides the link to the above website. there are indeed two sites - Delhi Notice Dept and the Delhi traffic Dept. I had checked both. While the traffic police website did not have any reference to the challan, the Notice Dept website had the challan with details but it did not have the photograph of the violation. That's what I was seeking when I decided to contest and got immediately on the judge's directive.

[raptor_diwan]

This seems clean and simple! I wish consumer complaints about products were addressed just as quick. Asking questions to vendors and customers upfront and resolving issues on a daily basis would be more efficient, rather than waiting 3-4 years for justice.

[silverado]

People speak rudely and more often than not argue with the cops.

Its always good to address them as sir and speak in polite manner. On most occasions when i have made a mistake, i have accepted my mistake and requested them to let me off this time with a warning. 7 out of 10 times this has worked for me.

Regarding going to court, Yes if you know you are on the right side and have some kind of evidence to prove it, its worth going to courts.

[URWELCOME]

Since the topic of court and traffic fine came up...I would like to share my experience of paying fine in the court. This was in 1999 or 1998 in Mysore.. when I was a student.

I didn't had my vehicle insurance and was caught during routine traffic police checks.
I did not have money (300 rs) and the police promptly took my licence and asked to pay fine in court and come to police station and collect your licence.

Since there was only one court I went the next day, there were few traffic offence cases like mine and most of the cases were related to a recent raids done by police on lodges running prostitution. I was made to stand along with them and when my name was called hesitantly went bowed to the judged and accepted 300 rs fine.
The entire time in court I was so worried, hoping no known person would see me.

Additionally I paid 30-50 for the person who called my name and instructed me to bow to the judge...another 50/ for the person who gave the receipt.
Finally got my license back and ended up paying more than the fine amount.

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by URWELCOME

Since the topic of court and traffic fine came up...I would like to share my experience of paying fine in the court. This was in 1999 or 1998 in Mysore.. when I was a student.

I didn't had my vehicle insurance and was caught during routine traffic police checks.
I did not have money (300 rs) and the police promptly took my licence and asked to pay fine in court and come to police station and collect your licence.

Since there was only one court I went the next day, there were few traffic offence cases like mine and most of the cases were related to a recent raids done by police on lodges running prostitution. I was made to stand along with them and when my name was called hesitantly went bowed to the judged and accepted 300 rs fine.
The entire time in court I was so worried, hoping no known person would see me.

Additionally I paid 30-50 for the person who called my name and instructed me to bow to the judge...another 50/ for the person who gave the receipt.
Finally got my license back and ended up paying more than the fine amount.

Should I say Mera India/ Bharat Badal Raha Hai?
Actually, this is the exact experience I thought one would have, hence my trepidation to contest. And this is the fear that the cops prey on. Given how easy and smooth it was, I thought I'd share my experience with the forum here.
I checked up with three of my friends/ acquaintances who had been there before (after my experience). all of them had similar experiences to narrate. Hence my feeling that this is the norm and not the exception these days (at least in metros). I wish I'd taken some photographs of the court, enclosing a representative image closest to how the courtroom looked.

[kvsneela]

I had a message from my dealer in July 2023 regarding an overspeed violation during our recent visit to Chennai ( crossing Mahabalipuram on way back to Pondy). Speed limit 100 km/h and actual 105 km/h. It was a document without challan no but with photos ( by traffic camera)and all. I tried to pay for the next one month but the website said " no pending challans" always. Then I just had forgotten about it.
After seeing this thread I remembered and checked again . This time it asked for OTP ( after giving Reg no and Chassis no) sent to a number which was not ours. Then I checked the vehicle details link which gave a number probably belongs to the dealer. At that time I realised the reason for not getting any SMS regarding traffic violations.
Using another link, changed the phone number to wife's number ( as the car is registered in her name and online link allows only Aadhar based verification without visiting RTO office).
Again checked the echallan link and found a pending case which was not the overspeeding case but parking violation happened in Ooty during our Sep '23 visit ( challan did not have any details or photos). So I paid Rs. 500/- and ended the case.

So new car buyers kindly check your number is linked with the vehicle or else SMS will not be received by the owner.

[AnnaRocks]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

What I realised after this exercise -

1. The traffic court judges are very considerate. Almost everybody was being let off with an admonition. One guy had 7 violations, he was asked to pay Rs. 1000/- against the fine of 20,000/- against one offence and given 6 admonitions.

2. The entire thing was very convenient and streamlined. It took me more time to type this post than I probably did in the court.

My friend, you must be really lucky! You are the Chosen One. �� I've had a few experiences with these folks, and each encounter ends with me cursing them in my mind for hours afterward. It's just one of those things us regular folks have to deal with, especially when we are rushing to work or out with the family.

A few years back, I got pulled over by the traffic cops. They were hiding out in their usual spot, waiting to pounce on unsuspecting drivers, spots where they are most likely to pick up speed beyond the prescribed limit. But that wasn't why they stopped me. It was because a part of my brand-new car's temporary registration sticker at the front had torn off. The sticker at the rear was alright. It was only the third day with my new car, and I was still waiting on the official number from the dealer which was expected that day. While starting the drive that day, I did not think much about it, perhaps due to the excitement of driving the new car!

They dragged me over to their mobile court van parked under a tree. The judge there was no less than a drama queen on TV, yelling at everyone like they're in a courtroom showdown. I tried to explain, but all I got was a warning that I could end up behind bars for six months. So, I bit my tongue and paid the fine, not wanting to argue with Captain Power Trip any longer. My helpful SA from the dealer arrived at the mobile court with the number plate, but I had paid the fine by then.

Funny thing is, years later during my passport renewal, I got a police verification call saying that the fine was unpaid and the passport verification will be on hold till it is clear. This event happened 13 years ago. I got passport renewed twice after this incident. Even the jurisdiction of the court got changed in between those years . So finding the fine paid receipt was another challenge. I again remembered those officials' family members from the other day. I did not want to pay these guys again. I might sound stupid to some but I spent extra money just to get the old payment proof from the court, than what I would have spent had I repaid it. That now makes me a part of the first group in the POLL given above. It taught me a valuable lesson though – always keep receipts from these guys, save them like a lottery ticket that you have won. I won't even get into the other examples for now as I remembered the Judge's face now and my BP has spiked! I am going to do my anulom vilom now.

But I must say that in all these years of driving in Kerala, I have not encountered a single incident of cops asking for unofficial settlements of the fine whereas I had recent experiences of these in Mumbai and Uttarakhand.

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by AnnaRocks

My friend, you must be really lucky! You are the Chosen One. �� I've had a few experiences with these folks, and each encounter ends with me cursing them in my mind for hours afterward. It's just one of those things us regular folks have to deal with, especially when we are rushing to work or out with the family.
...

I guess that’s the general scene in Kerala what with the MVD also conjuring up nonsensical roles et al. As I said, a few things pushed me to go to the court-
1. My utter conviction that it was not a willful default
2. Lack of proof on the website.
3. Reviews from acquaintances and friends at Delhi
4. The exorbitant value of the fines here at Delhi.
5. My inability to let go (had I paid and moved on, I couldn’t have stopped berating myself later ad nauseum)

Lastly, I remember reading somewhere that the traffic department at Delhi is really unhappy with the courts as the recovery: challaned ratio is less than 25% and have requested them to be stricter as it defeats the very purpose. While I did not remember this news while contesting the claim, it suddenly popped into my consciousness later (maybe it played its sub-conscious part in the decision making process).

I thought I’d share this at least for the denizens of Delhi and for any other people like me elsewhere. It really doesn’t make sense to pay any fine/plead with the cops in Delhi.

[Shyam92]

I am sorry but what exactly is WebEx? How to access it? Can you pls brief on the same?

Thanks.