[lsjey]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

3. All those who live and work in any city, contribute to the commerce, economic development of that city and its local economy. So this kind of inter-state and inter community based hate-mongering cannot and should not be allowed to continue.
4. This is after all, One large Country. Why should anyone from anywhere in it be singled out for these unwelcome attentions? What gives ANY ‘local’ person the right to push other Non local people around? Bullying of any kind in any form, by any person, is simply not acceptable in any civilised society.
5. I would prefer to strongly advocate calm behaviour at all times. Discretion is the better part of valour hence ‘avoidance’ of situations first if alone or with weaker companions.

The thing is, if there is good governance in our country & states, then a citizen can exhibit a certain kind of behaviour. If governance is not sufficient then people will have to depend on other sources of governance. Unfortunately in this case and as is the case elsewhere, it is the goons themselves. If there is good governance then we should not have to pay bribes and as in this case let go of certain freedoms.

We are saying the same thing IMO from different perspectives. Good discussion. Thanks

Lsjey

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by lsjey

We are saying the same thing IMO from different perspectives. Good discussion. Thanks

Lsjey

There is one important difference. No one can and should be ‘bullied’ into learning and speaking any local language. In my considered opinion the linguistic division of states was simply the worst thing. And it is unravelling in more ways than one.
The learning process of any language or adaptation to any culture has to happen of one’s free will and based on need and want. ‘Imposition’ and ‘enforced’ dumping of any kind, is only going to have negative effects. It is but natural for anyone to rebel against anything that is ‘shoved down the throat’ - and that’s why totalitarian dictatorial regimes operate primarily through fear. This is not the India we know or want!

[Mystic]

Be a Roman in Rome. After I relocated to India, I owned 3 cars with registration plates done in 3 states , Scorpio with TN, Crysta with KA and Jimny with AP. The reason it is done in 3 states is I own houses in all the 3 states. I think I am not an exception and many people must be doing it. On a personal level, I consider all 3 states as my home because I did my pre engineering in TN, Engineering in AP, post engineering in KA.

Coming to learning languages, not all people are good at it. Some quickly learn languages and it is always a good idea to learn basic local language and make a sincere effort. Such people are welcomed everywhere. This is human psychology ( “There has been no qualitative change in man's thinking; we feel about our neighbours just as the frightened caveman felt towards his. The only thing that has changed is our ability to destroy our neighbor and his property.” — U.G. Krishnamurti). These 3 states share borders with in 50 kms from Bangalore city and it is very common to see AP, TN plates all over Bangalore.

When I visited Seattle, I took a rental car and the plates are from Alaska. This is very common in USA. Nobody looks at you strangely.

Coming to this thread on vandalism, one has to go by the book on survival in any major city in the world especially down towns by taking precautions. Indian cities are still safe compared to western world when venturing out late night. In western countries, the big issue is with Guns which are used for trivial reasons ( if some guy asks “ brother, give me $5, just give it. One never knows what can happen next If you donot give money).

[Mystic]

Originally Posted by Mystic

In western countries, the big issue is with Guns which are used for trivial reasons ( if some guy asks “ brother, give me $5, just give it. One never knows what can happen next If you donot give money).

I just remembered one more incident I had when I was on a project in Barcelona. It is not safe to venture into down town even in broad daylight. I took my local colleague with me. I witnessed some guys running with police chasing with guns. None of the local seem to care at the incident. I was watching to tell my family that I am a part of a Hollywood movie shooting but my local colleague told me that it is not a movie but real. The guys running had huge loads on them with ladies designer hand bags being sold at peanuts on the streets ( may be stolen from tourists). When they see police , they pack their stuff and start running. These kind of incidents are known to locals and hence some precautions need to be taken from locals before venturing to those places. These may be different for NYC, LA, Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago down towns.

[mgastor2022grey]

Originally Posted by that_sedate_guy

This might sound cowardly but really, I don't want anything to do with the incident whatsoever especially because those crooks live there in the same Street where my bestfriend also resides. So it's best that the morons forget it over their hangover and go about their useless lives.
Also, the volume and the number of times with which they mocked us and gave us their own phones to make phone calls to the police made it clear that there was no use in calling the authorities as they obviously had some backup or the other. I did not want anything to do with them.
I'm probably too much of a "walk away" kind of person but it just doesn't feel good to go behind such lowlifes, if you know what I mean.

This is not cowardly dude, don't call yourself that. How you handled the situation was very mature and brilliant, without getting involved in way bigger troubles. Happy to hear that you are safe and with negligible damages and injuries. I'd highly suggest you to get a dashcam too, as they have helped in various situations (stated by BHPians too, just search for 'dashcam' and you'll get numerous results). If you and your mates have any difficulty in overcoming the situation, not to be rude or anything, but please do take up a therapy session and have a happy and fun life ahead.

Do not overthink this incident. These kind of brainless morons will be present everywhere, and will always think of a way to spoil our lives. Regarding the TN/KA fights and disputes, my distant relative has already had an experience like this and filed a case in the court around 7-8 months ago. However, even after numerous visits to the court and wasting a lot of his time, all the court said was he should have been more 'careful' and 'kind' to the aggravators and not used expletives (all he used was just 'idiot') . I suggest you move on with the incident, make peace, go to some peaceful location (Yelagiri / Yercaud) with your wife, chill for 2-3 days, have a fresh mindset and forget with the incident.

This is what we all have to deal in the road daily. Don't take these too serious. My best wishes for you

[ChristComesSoon]

Originally Posted by that_sedate_guy

Friends, I'm still shaky as I type this. Not because I'm traumatised or anything but because I feel sick to the stomach like I'm going to throw up any time.

I am infuriated at reading this. I too recently had an experience of the hooliganism that is now rife in Bangalore.

HERE'S MY EXPERIENCE:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post5699617 (Your near-miss experiences on the road)

I'd like to repost here some suggestions that I had written in that thread:

Originally Posted by ChristComesSoon

.....
.....

On a general note: ---------------------------

As a car-driver on Bangalore roads for over 2 decades:

1. Why is it hard for us Indians to comprehend that there are faster vehicles on the road, and that it's just decency to give way to a faster vehicle? Why should a short honk be interpreted as "offensive"?
2. Why is situational awareness of what's around you, not known by most riders and drivers on the road? We have 3 mirrors, especially to look behind.
3. Why have we not yet figured out the concept of lanes on the road? There are oblivious drivers / riders haphazardly moving between lanes while at dangerously low speeds.
4. Why don't we have billboards on the road that state road etiquette & rules in text - such as, "Give way to a faster vehicle behind you," or, "Keep to the left lane if below xx speed."

I surmise that this is because, we don't care about our "neighbor" on the roads - if we look at it from a phsyco-analytical perspective. We assume that rules are arbitrary and that they are meant to be broken.
....

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Not a solution.
Just a jocular thought.
Perhaps install a bumper mounted solid brass flag pole on the left (passenger side) - with inter-changeable flags screaming your ‘allegiance-of-the-moment’. A sort of ‘Trojan Horse’ .

Lol....! Subscribe to the current THING!

[M@y@vi]

After reading the incident I can surely say KA as a state is moving backwards. No surprise other cities and zooming ahead. I have no idea what these goons are proud of about the city. I have been living in Bangalore for past 10 years and have had many such situations from which I still feel very insecure. It is high time we have a social behaviour score like credit scores for financial discipline. If something is not present by birth it has to be enforced through law. I have lived in many major cities down south. But no locals has been so mean anywhere. You can encounter fraud, rudeness and bribe at anytime/ situation. If not my job, I would have packed my bags years ago. Learning the language is not an issue but such feeling come from the fondness you have for the society and Not from the mere threat.

[manasr28]

Originally Posted by that_sedate_guy

Friends, I'm still shaky as I type this. Not because I'm traumatised or anything but because I feel sick to the stomach like I'm going to throw up any time.

We were unloading the books when a car with two men inside came there and signalled for us to get out of the way. When we tried to reverse, they aggressively tried coming closer and closer in a threatening manner. I saw a cigarette in the co-passenger's hand and figured out that it was a bunch of drunk goons. We let them pass and then resumed our job. They turned around and came back and shouted at us again. I could hear them shouting something about Tamilnadu along with some expletives. We went away from there and parked at a different spot with space for them to pass. That's when all hell broke loose.

Brother, I think you might have felt weak at that moment because your sane mind was telling you that there are women with you ?

But the women with you were actually your strength.

Originally Posted by that_sedate_guy

They were drunk out of their minds and were mouthing so many foul things about my wife and my friend.

They outraged the modesty of two women. The law (Section 354 IPC) is very harsh in this regard and has provisons for awarding punishment even before full investigation. There are countless men facing jail time throughout India due to false cases filed against them as misuse of this law, your case is a genuine one.

Apart from that, there is a clear cut case of vandalism and hooliganism covered under relevant sections of the law.

Don't trust me ? Go talk to a lawyer. Don't have a lawyer ? Google a nearby legal service. There are firms providing legal services for as little as 2000 rs.
You don't need a top shot lawyer to fight cases like these which are explicitly covered under law.

There are provisions for every possible thing in our Judicial system. The only thing that is required from us is THE WILL TO ACT.

Originally Posted by that_sedate_guy

Also, the volume and the number of times with which they mocked us and gave us their own phones to make phone calls to the police made it clear that there was no use in calling the authorities as they obviously had some backup or the other. I did not want anything to do with them.

Having friends in police, I can say this was a hoax. Hooligans get drunk and think that they are on top of the world. If you would have gone ahead and dialled the PCR, they would have ran away in few seconds.

Nobody wants to back a criminal or a crime no matter how powerful they are, especially crime against women.

And I can say confidently that you were not their first victims. Previously, they might have went into just verbal altercations with someone. The previous victims did not act, so now they went into physical altercations with you guys. If you guys don't act, they will do much worse to someone tommorow.

By not acting, you just gave them a precedent that a family in outside state registered Scorpio can be bullied and misbehaved with. They will not stop and continue doing worse with other outside state registered vehicles.

I, myslelf drive a Delhi registered vehicle in Bangalore. Few months ago, a frustrated BMTC bus driver after seeing my number plate started bullying me and came to fight. He started mouthing foul words in Kannada and I replied back in Punjabi. When he was convinced that I am not gonna bend down, he went back. My front and back dashcam was recording all this, I sent all the recordings to BMTC and filed a complaint with them. BMTC suspended that driver.

I know you did the right thing at that moment since you had women with you but my only advice is that you can certainly do even better now.

And to all those who are saying that drive a state registered vehicle and learn local language, that is not gonna help much either. An outside of state family can easily be identified no matter how much they try to mingle. An outsider speaking a local language can be identified by the accent he/she has.

Its not about respecting the loacal language and culture, its about the deep rooted regionalism, racism and divisive politics that we are victims of.

Otherwise, people speaking same language would not fight among themselves on the basis of their districts, people living in same districts would not fight among themselves on the basis of their village, people living in the same village will not fight on the basis of caste, people of same caste will not fight on the basis of having a boy or a girl as their heir (still happens in remote villages).

[adrift@life]

Living all my life in hosur and frequently traveling to Bangalore for everything,i can empathize with what you went through.
I drive a tn70 registered vehicle too, in fact all vehicles in the house hold are tn registered. And Bangalore airport is my home port.
I'm trained mentally to expect this when ever i travel to Bangalore. I always avoid confrontation with anybody. The police especially are first in targeting TN registered vehicles.

You just had a bad day which you couldn't avoid.

I have some amazing kannadiga friends, only people who are good for nothing and couldn't make anything of oneself are always angry that outsiders are the reason for their state of existence.

Put this behind you, even if you had a dashcam you'll get no help from police unless you're connected in high places.
If your travel is on a daily basis to Bangalore from hosur, i would suggest getting a KA vehicle.

[SR-71]

This is deeply disturbing and being a non local myself, I deeply empathise with you. However I can say this with utmost conviction, this is not a reflection of the city’s culture by any means. Bangalore is safer than most metros and the police are relatively decent and responsive. I have spent a decade+ of my life in 3 different states including my home state and I can tell you, I feel most comfortable and secure in Bangalore despite its fair share of problems. My personal experience, please call the police control room, they are quite helpful. Never take matters in your own hands with folks looking to pick a fight.

[Way2Jimny]

As many suggested you should definitely file a case with the police. You have said those goons stay in the same street as your friend. There is no issue with identifying them then.

When they say they know all the cops and have them in finger tips , believe me they definitely don't. May be the cops will know them already in a negative way.

Once a tata Ace guy banged on my brand new car from the back making a huge dent. All this while I was stuck in traffic jam for a long time. He accused me for sudden braking and told me he knows all the cops in that area and he won't budge to pay me. He didnt stop as well.

I just took a picture of him with the phone number sticker on driver side door. Went straight to the police station and narrated the incident in broken kannada that I knew.

I specifically said he knows all the cops in that station which made the cops more furious.

The constable there called that phone number and told him he should report to the station immediately. First the driver came to the station in 15 mins. He started behaving the same way and the cop seized the vehicle and asked him to go away. Then he got the owner to come down. That person apologized paid me 5k and resolved the situation.

Cops are generally helpful especially when women are involved. If you face any such situation make sure to call the cops immediately. Atleast one in that crowd should have done that.

[meples]

And here's a question I have been meaning to ask and I think this thread presents itself as the perfect opportunity.

Why can't we self-defend? Self defence is a fundamental human right. I'm not vouching for violence, but if someone dares to physically attack me first, I will not hesitate to defend myself.

Which brings me to the 2nd point. We all should learn how to self defend. Enroll yourself in a boxing or a Krav-Maga class. It will not only keep you fit, but also teach you how to save yourself in situations like this.

[theabstractmind]

As a Kannadiga, I do feel ashamed of these type of incidents. But I am not being apologetic. It would serve only a political purpose. Having said these, here's my alternate perception of the whole incident.

1. Based on the mention that the goons live on the same street as that of the OP's friend, it was more of a personal grudge. They could just be two vandals or perverts eying the ladies and wanted to show off. Kannada or non-Kannada probably has nothing to do with the incident.
2. OP and group was in a wrong place at a wrong time. This incident possibly had a 1 in 1000 chance of happening. The OP was unfortunate.

The use of Kannada sentiments in most of these fights is merely political and will most often have nothing related to the incident. It is used as an alibi to justify their deeds.

How can this be stopped? For sure make an attempt to learn the language. Even people who live here for a decade don't utter a word of Kannada. It doesn't matter whether you are in India or outside, every local likes it when you speak their language. Period.

Contrary to the previous paragraph, it is equally true that you can be at the receiving end without being guilty of anything but your ethnic identity. I say this as a person having been victim of mild racist incidents both outside India and specifically in Tamil Nadu within India. The enmity due to Cauvery issue is going to stay. Forever.

With the unfortunate politics around water and migration, these incidents will only increase over a period of time. The western world sees targeted violence against people with brown skin. It's a similar situation here. People will need to learn to find ways of mingling with the local ways, not try to stand out, try to speak the local language, and hope that you will be safe.

To sign off, if the OP has the willingness, he must file a complaint to teach a lesson to those goons. But if I were to be in place, maybe, I would have also let it go. I wouldn't be willing to put myself and family at risk. Possibly he could shift his family to hometown and then file a case. I truly feel sorry for what happened. But, it is possibly best to move on.

[BNG-motorhead]

Moved to Bangalore ard 2015, have family staying here since long who know Kannada. I can’t speak, bad with picking new language. Brought up in a multicultural environment respecting all equally.

Lock down time, driving alone night 10p, 2 drunk young men on a scooter cut me off and it seemed they were pissed about something about my driving. I confronted them and the same story of non kannadiga, hurling abuses for 30 mins, asking about my ethinicity, scaring me into calling more goons. My car number at the time was HR26. The hooligan in me wanted to open up their heads with the handy rod in my car trunk, but the familyman me took the abuse without retaliating, thinking about their safety.

I swear I was so disturbed for months, that why did it happen to me, why was I singled out, how dare did those low life folks even think of confronting me. But I felt extremely helpless, powerless and developed a deep disgust for karnataka. I dont have any superiority complex, I respect other cultures, I dont have biased views and am impartial on my worst day.

But such incidents on repeat have left me scarred. I dont want to buy anything in KA, I dont empathize with anyone here, I dont care about any social issue. It is tit for tat, use n throw attitude, use this city for self gains, move on. I will change this attitude the day I feel people here treat me better and with respect.

[bravo82in]

I'm deeply saddened to hear about the ordeal. I attribute part of the problem to social media platforms like Facebook Instagram reels and WhatsApp, which propagate hatred towards others. Opinions have become so polarized that people struggle to discern right from wrong, abandoning logic altogether. These are undoubtedly challenging times. Let's hope no one finds themselves in a similar situation again.