[Malyaj]

There are no quick solutions. The fissures in society in general (and not just in Bangalore) have deepened. Disparities are very in-your-face. Poor behaviour is partly a result of that. There are thousands of delivery boys bringing every damn thing to your doorstep. Surely there must be some psychological impact of being just a cog in the wheel to someone's luxurious lifestyle. Ditto for maids, car cleaners, restaurant staff, cab drivers.

We have some of the worst income inequalities in the world that has resulted in crowding out of anyone who can't earn half a decent income. Don't expect these people to be all cheery eyed about billion dollar unicorns or thousands of AI/ML jobs being created or the next EV megastar. They get nothing out of it. I read an article (where, I don't recall), which called the delivery boys the modern day equivalents of slaves. They work under exploitative contracts, spend most of the time in the pollution and heat, collectively walk miles into gigantic apartment complexes, avoid drinking water so that they don't have to use the loo. All this for what? Earning some 15K a month? Sometimes not even that.

Unequal growth shows. A society built on this kind of inequality will not look pretty.

[Samurai]

I have lived in Bangalore for over 4 decades.

Originally Posted by Malyaj

We have some of the worst income inequalities in the world that has resulted in crowding out of anyone who can't earn half a decent income.

Fully agree with this. Bangalore cannot be made charming again by all of us becoming less rude. The root cause is not going away.

In the early 80s, our next house (identical to ours) was occupied by couple of electricians. I remember them because they taught me how to do simple household electrical repairs/installations. Few years later when my dad (banker) built his first home, a car driver employed in the same bank also built a similar sized home in the same street. And so our families are on friendly terms into the 3rd generation now.

Can you imagine that in today's Bangalore? The income inequality has severely split our society into so many economic classes, and it is impossible to live together in the same street.

[airguitar]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I have lived in Bangalore for over 4 decades.

Fully agree with this. Bangalore cannot be made charming again by all of us becoming less rude. The root cause is not going away.

It can be one of the reasons, sir, but surely not the only one? What explains absolutely rude, no-respect-for-rules, aggressive, self-centered white-collared people in swanky cars and cartloads of money in the bank? Surely they should have a higher level of self-actualization than others at a lower income by that thought-process? How will having a higher income reduce problems caused by this type of people who mete out the same treatment to others irrespective of the other person's position anyway?

[Malyaj]

Originally Posted by airguitar

It can be one of the reasons, sir, but surely not the only one? What explains absolutely rude, no-respect-for-rules, aggressive, self-centered white-collared people in swanky cars and cartloads of money in the bank? Surely they should have a higher level of self-actualization than others at a lower income by that thought-process? How will having a higher income reduce problems caused by this type of people who mete out the same treatment to others irrespective of the other person's position anyway?

By no means is bad behaviour restricted to the under privileged. In fact just a few minutes back I stepped out for some road side chai. An XUV700 driver, typical corporate types, was honking non-stop at an auto rickshaw driver because the signal was about to turn red and the sky was about to fall. Never mind that all of us, not protected by the excellent NVH insulation of the SUV were left annoyed by the honking too. For the rich their fast cars can't go fast enough, their deliveries can't come sooner, their gated communities cannot isolate them from traffic. It is a circus all over.

[shankar.balan]

We have a very high population concentration in these urban and semi urban areas because of economic necessity. Where there are multitudes of people living in relatively confined spaces, there is bound to be greater friction.

Its a vicious cycle.

If companies move their bases to smaller towns, it is not an automatic foregone conclusion that they will get the necessary workforce. Because the workforce wants their options of entertainment and food and modern conveniences and all which typically are more only in the bigger cities.

Earlier in the 1960’s, 1970’s and 1980’s things were simpler and there was a greater sense of contentment with one’s ‘lot’. Thats why those self contained Industrial Towns like Kudremukh and Jamshedpur and Munnar and all worked well. They had everything necessary for a comfortable life for the people there, or what was considered comfortable then; which was largely the ‘security’ that went with a job in one of those places. The townships had Shops, Schools, Hospitals, Banks, Post Offices etc.
But now in these modern times, there is a deep winter of discontent which we all experience in varying degrees. Our shortening attention spans, easy boredom and general ‘accidie’ is only fuelled further by our Mainstream media, Social media, technology, proliferation of entertainment options, greater exposure, all of which leads to comparisons and thus, more discontent.
In the hurry to get ahead faster than others, on the ladder of ‘success’ , all the nicer sensibilities and politenesses and courtesies are simply left behind to fall by the wayside.
Its a sign of the inevitable on-going moral decay and the overall deterioration of behavioural standards as a fall out of such social and socio-economic circumstances as described above.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by livetodrive

No it was main road, not carriage way. Legal U turn means taking a Proper U turn. Nowadays you will see people not only driving opposite lane but taking U turn from right lane to left after driving opposite.

I'm still not following. Perhaps you can post a pic and explain?

Even if its an undivided road (ie. without a solid median), we can still call the side thats bound for one direction as a carriageway, and the side thats bound for the opposite side as another carriageway.

So for instance, there can be 4-laned undivided roads (2+2) with just a double yellow median. I would still call that as 2 carriageways for lack of a better alternative, with each carriageway having 2 lanes.

[nagarjun]

One thing I have noticed not just in Bangalore, but every town/city is the menace of reckless/wrong-side driving. If you observe, in just 10mins you might see at least 50 people driving on the wrong-side if there are not cops stationed nearby. This is across genres of people. School hours in the morning is even more horrible, you can parents dropping their children to school, going on the wrong side to gain 5mins and this is leaving a long-lasting impression on the child that its acceptable to go on the wrong side. Sometimes I wonder if we have reached an complete social anarchy and not sure if we can ever correct this behavior.

The other thing I want to talk about is the road-rage. These days, I am quite conscious to avoid reacting to traffic mess while I am driving or walking on public roads. Few days back one of the delivery executives started to ride at high speed on the wrong side in our apartment drive-way. Somebody alerted him and he turned back, but didn't slow down. I asked him to slow down in Kannada and in quite a respectful manner. He stopped, gave a stare and asked me what's the problem and told me that he is from Bangalore and again asked me if I have a problem, hinting that he is local and trying to provoke me to a fight. Me being a Bangalorean from a long time and knowing Kannada I told him, I am also from Bangalore and I just asked him to go slow. Again this behavior is not just specific to Bangalore, but everyone can relate to most places across India.

Now coming to what can be done which I think is the main point of this thread and not just rant, here are my thoughts.

1. Be active in trying to correct the situation. I tried to report traffic violations, hoping that at least a small percentage of people will improve. Report on civic issues to the authorities, some of them are in social media and respond.
2. Please be careful, do not get provoked at any point of time when interacting with the anyone who is causing the trouble and do not hesitate to call cops. Its ok to take the hassle of going to police station, then losing limb/life.
3. Try to learn the local language(Knowing a new language is always beautiful and helpful). I have noticed that most of these offenders start to interact in local language and try to portray the situation as a local vs non-local issue to divert from their mistake.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by nagarjun

Sometimes I wonder if we have reached an complete social anarchy and not sure if we can ever correct this behavior.

He stopped, gave a stare and asked me what's the problem and told me that he is from Bangalore and again asked me if I have a problem, hinting that he is local and trying to provoke me to a fight.

I have noticed that most of these offenders start to interact in local language and try to portray the situation as a local vs non-local issue to divert from their mistake.

Indeed it sometimes seems that we are so terribly distanced from social and moral responsibility in the blind pursuit of ‘Mammon’ and hence the social divide is increasingly widening, driving us to the brink of that state of ‘total social anarchy’.

However, as a people, we are largely a passive lot and hence Im not very sure if and when a ‘flashpoint’ similar to the French ir Cuban or Arab Spring kind of revolutions can ever be reached and whether it will then gain sufficient momentum to unite vast swathes of people. I don’t think it will because we are basically disunited because we are highly heterogenous, ethnically speaking and we tend to for example, vote on ‘tribal’ or ‘caste and community based’ lines.

I 100% agree that these offenders try to take refuge behind the cloak of being ‘local’ and use only the local language and abuses in order to attempt to shield themselves from the mistakes that they themselves have committed. This is a bad trait and a bad trend too, because it is almost as if anyone can get away with anything at all behind the cloak of ‘parochialism’.
And this also argues a poor state of Policing and Law and Order enforcement here.

I am, on the other hand, given to understand that the Police forces are badly under staffed and simply cannot cover the vast area that this city now encompasses. And no one wants to join either because there are less strenuous and more lucrative options now.

It is a vicious cycle as I said before.

[bhansali_hardik]

Looking at the response I'm glad I started this thread, most of us echo the same issues and hopefully by end, we come out as something more than just a keyboard warriors and the hope is still intact to get hands on the right resources or direction at the very least!

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

....protest it's apathy? You can sign me up.

This is exactly that we hope to get there eventually or reach a genuine source which does this and we march along!

Originally Posted by crossoverhead1

Is this taken near Richmond circle ? It’s one of my favourite part of the city along with Chamrajendra ( Cubbon ) Park and Jayanagar.

This is from JP nagar overlooking Kanakpura road, RR nagar and beyond.

Originally Posted by abaliga

The load on Bangalore is far higher than it can take, administration should encourage remote working but on the contrary it is doing the exact opposite (not a political statement, this applies irrespective of the party at helm), it is time to move some businesses to satellite towns and tier 2/3 cities and allow remote working, this will lead to job loss for the support services and possibly be detrimental for the real estate sector, but if one is realistic on long term sustainability of the city, I find this to be the only option.

The de-centralization is the key but given our poor infra higher risks for industries and companies and folks who would not want to migrate to such cities even if the pay is higher in equivalent terms!

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

Don't want to Hijack this thread. This is somewhere around Jayanagar / JP Nagar. In the background you can see ISKCON temple I think. And the rock/hill you see is Savandurga with the sun setting further to the right. I used to get this view from my Manager's cabin in Jayanagar, and.....

Spot on! It indeed is overlooking all the things that you mentioned and the sad state of the poor infrastructure. If you have traveled from Jayanagar towards Kanakpura road which is classic example of strain on our system, not enough space to ride or even walk! Rampant commercialization and vehicles pounding into pedestrians/other vehicles.

Originally Posted by livetodrive

Few days back while taking a legal U turn (from left to right lane) a new Thar owner confronted me by coming on opposite lane. I was in middle of the road and traffic on left side of me came to a halt. Signaled the Thar owner to move back. Instead he told me to take a back gear Few seconds and honks from bikes and cars from my left side made Bangalore not a charming city at least. He had to back off because of the pressure. But why respected IT walas have to behave like this? To save a U turn and few paisa of diesel?

I have seen cops who have looked away from the people doing this and have not bothered to even grab a photo for challan! The traffic is such a burden that even cops have given up and barely do their duty of late!

But please do not generalize at least we should not on this forum! We are very much trying to fight this

Originally Posted by One

Very commendable and yes, there's lots that can be done....


All the best, you are going in the right track. Please keep us posted...

Sure, I hope too! Have pulled a few strings and waiting to see if I can get a response!

Originally Posted by Malyaj

There are no quick solutions. The fissures in society in general (and not just in Bangalore) have deepened. Disparities are very in-your-face. Poor behaviour is partly a result of that. There are thousands of delivery boys bringing every damn thing to your doorstep. Surely there must be some psychological impact of being just a cog in the wheel to someone's luxurious lifestyle. Ditto for maids, car cleaners, restaurant staff, cab drivers.
Unequal growth shows. A society built on this kind of inequality will not look pretty.

How can we make it better? A smile and thank you to all these folks goes long way along with the pay! The pay might not be the immediate but the folks who work for us in general can get a better lives for themselves.

Small thing which my family has taken care of from a while are their kids education is taken care of, there are other odd jobs which they do in spare time and earn an extra buck, no one goes hungry we order extra food on Sunday morning breakfast runs and these are just few things which we already are doing from our end and if each of us do this independently I'm sure we can ease the burden.

Originally Posted by Samurai

I have lived in Bangalore for over 4 decades.

Fully agree with this. Bangalore cannot be made charming again by all of us becoming less rude. The root cause is not going away.

Can you imagine that in today's Bangalore? The income inequality has severely split our society into so many economic classes, and it is impossible to live together in the same street.

We cannot afford housing anymore in Bangalore! That is a far-fetched dream and it's absolutely true that you have mentioned. Real estate is one such thing which is a vicious trap with so many caveats that cannot be solved at all.

But everything else which we as common fellow can do, should do and at least give it a try. I have hope in restoring some ethos back in here, but the politicians and the greed is just swinging things other wise! There were no 'you are an outsider' fights here until very late, but then the greed and disparity kicks in and brings out the evils in one way or other.

Originally Posted by Malyaj

By no means is bad behaviour restricted to the under privileged. In fact just a few minutes back I stepped out for some road side chai. An XUV700 driver, typical corporate types, was honking non-stop at an auto rickshaw driver because the signal was about to turn red and the sky was about to fall. Never mind that all of us, not protected by the excellent NVH insulation of the SUV were left annoyed by the honking too. For the rich their fast cars can't go fast enough, their deliveries can't come sooner, their gated communities cannot isolate them from traffic. It is a circus all over.

It is a serious sport in Bangalore, if you know what I mean

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Its a vicious cycle.

If companies move their bases to smaller towns, it is not an automatic foregone conclusion that they will get the necessary workforce. Because the workforce wants their options of entertainment and food and modern conveniences and all which typically are more only in the bigger cities.

Earlier in the 1960’s, 1970’s and 1980’s things were simpler and there was a greater sense of contentment with one’s ‘lot’. Thats why those self contained Industrial Towns like Kudremukh and Jamshedpur and Munnar and all worked well. They had everything necessary for a comfortable life for the people there, or what was considered comfortable then; which was largely the ‘security’ that went with a job in one of those places. The townships had Shops, Schools, Hospitals, Banks, Post Offices etc.

Now we pay to get to such places and call it a relaxing holiday! How times have changed?

Originally Posted by nagarjun

The other thing I want to talk about is the road-rage. These days, I am quite conscious to avoid reacting to traffic mess while I am driving or walking on public roads. Few days back one of the delivery executives started to ride at high speed on the wrong side in our apartment drive-way. Somebody alerted him and he turned back, but didn't slow down. I asked him to slow down in Kannada and in quite a respectful manner. He stopped, gave a stare and asked me what's the problem and told me that he is from Bangalore and again asked me if I have a problem, hinting that he is local and trying to provoke me to a fight. Me being a Bangalorean from a long time and knowing Kannada I told him, I am also from Bangalore and I just asked him to go slow. Again this behavior is not just specific to Bangalore, but everyone can relate to most places across India.
to portray the situation as a local vs non-local issue to divert from their mistake.

Road rage is at it's worst and the patience levels are running super low for almost all the reasons mentioned on this thread and even if a person keeps their cool, they are provoked to an extent within few minutes on road that they just lose it!

The folks driving wrong side, on high beam, not letting people pass bye, driving into blocked junctions and creating a bigger jam, the list goes on.. however, cool you want to keep there will be someone who has tackled all this to make it across and a small mistake or a red signal with people not ready to move makes the perfect trigger!

There should be some social awareness created especially for the road usage! Having a driving license means absolutely nothing in this country.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Indeed it sometimes seems that we are so terribly distanced from social and moral responsibility in the blind pursuit of ‘Mammon’ and hence the social divide is increasingly widening, driving us to the brink of that state of ‘total social anarchy’.

I am, on the other hand, given to understand that the Police forces are badly under staffed and simply cannot cover the vast area that this city now encompasses. And no one wants to join either because there are less strenuous and more lucrative options now.

It is a vicious cycle as I said before.

We win elections in this country by bribing in broad day light in the name of freebies and then even rob away from the bribe! It's a double whammy. Police and other babus have higher interests and they cannot be blamed either. As you told it's a vicious cycle! I am guilty of using public eye extensively when I would travel from Jayanagr to Whitefield and have made a fortune for the govt while going people who were booked would have some responsibility in the future that there are people with phones everywhere, if there are no cops.

The public eye app/system is not really fool proof and cops use it to their advantage to meet targets as well. It indeed is a vicious cycle!

[Latebloomer]

It's a simple answer. The companies have to expand to tier 2 and 3 cities which I believe have started at a very slow pace. Once that happens the traffic, the auto drivers rage all will come down as the population is lesser and they can't charge as per their will. Also brings down the biggest comment which keeps floating " If you have a problem with banglore get out of the city"

[am1m]

Most of the old photographs that are categorized under the 'charming Bangalore' category don't seem to have traffic in them. Cubbon park is heaven on weekends when traffic is not allowed inside. So no traffic=charming. But since I play my part in causing the problem (I have a car and a bike and I use them both), I don't think I can get judgemental about the issue and blame others. For my own sanity though (not out of any desire to help Bangalore), I've started using the Metro as much as possible and design my life around the Metro as much as I can. It won't make Bangalore charming again, but it's made my life a lot more peaceful.

[PreludeSH]

We need more roads that at least on weekends will bar vehicular traffic. Should be in every ward and not just high streets. Will encourage more people to walk on streets and for a change look at different kinds of people. But please don't have only eateries, maybe some fun activities. I think today people go out only to sit and have drinks and food.

Also, people dont like mingling with others, get exposed to new cultures, places. Its become a very small world which is uniform without diversity. There is no point getting into political discussions/elections.

[Revvatron]

I don't think it is possible anymore. For example I see people who praise Hyderabad incomparison to Bangalore in terms of traffic and roads etc., but it is also on it's way becoming less charming. I think with growing population it is just inevitable. Also what defines charming depends on the experience we are having in that current city. The road rage is one of those things which is increasing pretty much everywhere and not just in metro cities. Maybe with increase in stress in personal lives people are diverting it onto others. The only way I see is to become pragmatic and learn to not be bothered with such things. Focusing on the good of the place rather than the bad.It does sound irresponsible but just my two cents

[ashis89]

I believe the inorganic growth and lack of town planning in the newer areas of Bangalore only adds to the chaos and frustration of the public, which manifests itself in the form of road rage, wrong side driving and so on. We are beyond the point where some of these can be corrected (narrow streets can't anymore because of lack of space). If only the government maintains the existing infrastructure and the public makes peace with everything around. And preserve water whenever we can.

Originally Posted by Revvatron

I don't think it is possible anymore. For example I see people who praise Hyderabad incomparison to Bangalore in terms of traffic and roads etc., but it is also on it's way becoming less charming.

Proper planning in the upcoming areas seems to be helping a lot. Look at the quality of roads, presence of drains, flyovers, amenities, etc and compare that with areas in Bangalore.

[puntra800]

As soon as the thread said Bangalore , I could not resist posting. I guess the apathy lies with the people than any other reason and I can quote so many example(Just want to stop short of ranting)
1. Election voting percentage is dismal 40% almost any election, people will give all the gyaan the city has a lot of people who are staying abroad but have entries in voter list. I agree with the reasoning for some extent but then I am also aware of the fact that many get voter IDs done just for the sake of address proof.
2. Trash, There are vehicles which collect trash almost every day in most areas but still we have people come and throw trash on the streets with extreme precision and punctuality.
3. Trees, there was a time where trees used to line every street but now the same trees have become a hinderance for parking so lets chop it is the general trend.

I was born in Bangalore and grew up in the city, lucky enough I know the West,South and to an extent North Bangalore(To an extent since it covers only Peenya, Jalahalli, Dasarahalli areas) on the top of my fingertips, I literally know which gully to take or at least I am sure the roads will eventually connect to the main road but the same cannot be said of the newer areas(Read East of ORR) every single road leads to a dead end.

The city grew at a pace which it could not sustain itself and nor was there a political will to offset this growth to other regions within Karnataka itself, all these combined with the apathy shown by people is responsible to the current state we are in.

Good things take time, slowly with Metro coming in people have started seeing benefits of public transport, RWAs are showing interest in waste segregation and water management. Although its not happening at a scale which can be appreciated but at least its a start.