[supermax]

Two wheels vs four

I'm born in Karnataka, India, and have spent all of my growing years in old Bangalore, namely Jayanagar and Basavanagudi, and spent my late teen and early twenties in J.P. Nagar, and BTM Layout. From the moment I got my two wheeler licence, I've been an active motorist in India, extracting all possible performance out of a 65 CC two-geared Hero Puch, before swapping it for a 125 CC Yamaha Enticer, which which I blasted through the streets of Pune for five years. Now, whenever I visit India, my vehicle of choice is my father's trusty Honda Dio that has clocked close to 1L km and still going strong. No matter how long I stay away from India and Bangalore, I can simply hop onto the Dio, and I'm back in my element, negotiating the chaotic traffic with aplomb. Four wheelers though a different matter. My family has never owned a car, and I only took a handful of driving lessons in India some 10 years ago, before moving to Sweden, without even bothering to obtain a DL.

I learned to drive from scratch in Sweden, and have been driving for close to two years now, and I've driven close to 10k km in that time in my own car, so I thought how hard could it be, to drive in Bangalore, particularly since I was already so adept at tackling the roads on my two wheeler. I wasn't at all prepared for how hard it would be!

Within hours of landing in India, I jumped into my sister's car, a Maruti Ritz with an automatic transmission. Despite trying to repeatedly remind myself that the indicator and wiper placements were inverted, I ended up deploying the wipers repeatedly, not once, whenever I wanted to turn on the blinkers. I found also that I was anything but comfortable with two wheeler traffic diving all around me! Making a turn, I instinctively ended up turning onto the right side lane before turning to the left in horror, but that was not the end of it. The unfamiliarity of the sitting position seemed to manifest in issues judging the gap to the car's sides. I quickly decided that I needed at least an hour but perhaps more of acclimatizing before I could be safe on the road.

I called a few driving schools nearby but most of them insisted that I sign up for some package or the other, with a 10 class minimum, but I finally found a school that was more flexible. I could sign up on a pay-as-you-go plan. I decided to start with a single class, and I found that I was basically driving with too much of a safety margin in terms of gaps to the side, something that is totally not appropriate in Bangalore traffic! I learnt quickly that unless I practically hugged the median, opportunistic two wheelers would try to sneak in a wheel into the gap, forcing me to take evasive action. I noted that the experience in a four wheeler was quite radically different to the vastly superior realtime situational awareness I enjoyed while riding a two wheeler. I quickly realized that defensive driving worked very well, just as it did in Sweden, but one needed to augment it with India specific adjustments.

The things that worked

1. My eco-driving habits such as going off the gas when I spotted a red light worked wonderfully, resulting in a smooth drive.
2. My mirror routines were excellent and my situational awareness was good.

The things that didn't work!

1. Whenever I saw a pedestrian, my instinct was to give him/her a wide berth. My driving school guy would shake his head and say that I needed to stay much closer to stop the pedestrian from actually walking right onto my path, with an extended hand!
2. Was a bit unnerving to realize that I could get passed in both directions, and with nearly no margins whatsoever. I got better handling this after the first two lessons.
3. Clutch control instructions by the instructor here were totally against everything I learned in Sweden. When turning at an intersection, we motorbrake, make the gear change before making the turn, and are ready to stop if needed, but never ride the clutch while turning. Here, the instructor insisted that I be fully clutched as I took turns.
4. Even at traffic lights, the instructor would tell me to apply full clutch way before I'd want to do it. I've learned to scrub off speed by motorbraking, and then downshifting when the revs drop, resulting in a smooth downshift with no need for a rev match. Here, the instructions were to clutch fully and use the brakes to slow down. I found him applying the clutch and brake for me, even when I was in control and just wanted to motorbrake more before clutching in and braking.
5. I had to get used to honking. I've used the horn probably three times on the road in the past two years of driving in Sweden. I even remember those instances! Here, I needed to use the horn pretty enthusiastically. I've done more honking in the past week than I'd do for the rest of my life, if I spend all of it in Sweden, I think!

The take-home

1. It's far easier for a person who has learned to drive abroad to tweak his/her driving styles to Indian conditions than for a seasoned driver in Indian conditions to drive in an acceptable manner in the west.
2. I now realized why so many experienced Indian drivers flunk the driving tests in Sweden and UK so many times; it's hard to get rid of all the bad techniques that over the years get burnt into the brain.
3. I saw many driving school cars and none that I saw used special mirrors for the instructor to use. The student in India loses the center mirror completely, so most students don't even learn to use it correctly in the first place.
4. Since I've learned to look far, far ahead, it was easier for me to observe and take in a lot more, even in the midst of chaotic traffic. Students here are not taught to look far enough ahead. Most drivers only look as far as a car length or two down the road.
5. The total absence of lane discipline bites Indian drivers very, very hard when they drive in a country like Sweden where lane discipline and proper planning is critical to success.
6. Most Indians seem to believe that driving in India makes them capable of driving anywhere in the world. The ridiculousness of that assumption and that fact that the ridiculousness is lost upon them is rather amusing. When I told my driving instructor that he'd most likely stick out like a sore thumb, being the only guy who was driving very differently from the rest of the traffic flow, he was fairly shocked. You can spot non-regular drivers on the road there, very, very easily.

For the future

Now that I've invested some time and effort in learning to drive here, I hope it'll allow me to jump into a car in the future and be able to feel more comfortable behind the wheel. It's unlikely that I'll manage to get an Indian LMV license, given that I only visit India once in two years, and rarely if ever stay for longer than three weeks, so I'll have to make my peace with having to rely on an IDP issued on my Swedish DL to be able to drive in India. On this point, it would be interesting to hear from fellow TBHPians in a similar situation if they use an IDP, or simply drive with their foreign DL which may not be in English. My Swedish DL is in Swedish, and I'm sure DLs issued by Germany, France, Netherlands etc won't be in English either.

[Kosfactor]

I don't know about Sweden but think about your responsibility as a driver of an automobile, we cannot treat driving on our roads as a process where you follow the rules and expect to reach the other side unharmed - because you have to watch out for others, compensate for their mistakes , sometimes that would involve jumping lanes rather than causing a km long serial accident etc - traffic density is insane here, you need to account for all of that.

Even in western countries like US there is something called - Last clear chance.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/last...he%20accident.

Now re-think your driving in India from that perspective, you'd be having your spider senses on all the time

Expat drivers are often like an L board , except that they are stubborn and believe their way is the right way, I'm very scared sitting next to them, they have no concept of driving as a skill, they treat is as a process, good luck.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Expat drivers are often like an L board , except that they are stubborn and believe their way is the right way, I'm very scared sitting next to them, they have no concept of driving as a skill, they treat is as a process, good luck.

Are you commenting about me or generalizing it as all expats? And how have you reached the conclusion that they have no concept of driving as a skill? Driving is both a skill and a process. If you don't internalize the various processes such as mirror and blindspot checks into muscle memory, the skill that you talk about is rather non-existent. Driving devoid of a plan, refusing to yield to smaller vehicles etc is not skill. Many countries in the west recognize this and teach students early to eschew ego based driving and to adopt defensive driving. India can definitely benefit from this.

[bijims]

Originally Posted by supermax

Are you commenting about me or generalizing it as all expats? And how have you reached the conclusion that they have no concept of driving as a skill? Driving is both a skill and a process. If you don't internalize the various processes such as mirror and blindspot checks into muscle memory, the skill that you talk about is rather non-existent. Driving devoid of a plan, refusing to yield to smaller vehicles etc is not skill. Many countries in the west recognize this and teach students early to eschew ego based driving and to adopt defensive driving. India can definitely benefit from this.

I agree with you here, in general, the driving schools and driving tests in India, do not get you anything here in India, it is only until you drive on the road you understand the real-world scenario, with drivers not using any signals whatsoever, most even don't know the use of the hazard signal. Whereas abroad, getting a driver's license isn't a piece of cake like it is here, where every Tom dick, and Harry can get one easily, there they test your knowledge during the driving test, put you in tricky situations, etc, to really know that you are a capable driver. Here you just have to go through the 4 gears on an Alto and stop the car safely, and take a mechanical L to get your licence.

But however, changes are coming through and the driving tests are becoming more comprehensive, lets hope this brings in better drivers!

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by supermax

Two wheels vs four

It's far easier for a person who has learned to drive abroad to tweak his/her driving styles to Indian conditions than for a seasoned driver in Indian conditions to drive in an acceptable manner in the west.

You just echoed my thoughts on the subject, except the one quoted above.

I think it’s other way round. It’s difficult for the person who have learned to drive abroad or have spent considerable time driving abroad, because the good habits are inculcated in the subconscious mind and then to let it go in a chaotic driving condition is a bit unnerving.

A year back while driving in INDIA, I saw a pedestrian about to cross the road and intuitively I slowed down, eventually stopped and let the pedestrian cross the road, it wasn’t slamming of the brakes and what next, I got rear ended by a bike and have to hear some choicest of the words, because he thought I stopped without any reason in the middle of the road.

In general, when I drive in INDIA, I just take it slow for the initial few days to get used to the chaotic system and later it’s all fine.

There are risks involved in driving from A to B, in any country, only difference in INDIA is that the tolerance of risk taking ability and capability in general is a notch higher than any developed country.

Someone once told me there’s a smoothness in chaos on Indian roads

[interest]

Some of the things that we take for granted as best practices abroad are probably practices designed unconsciously for a particular type of traffic mix (read-less 2 wheelers and more 4 wheelers), a particular volume of traffic (in general lower traffic density of both vehicles and pedestrians than any where in India), a particular level of road infrastructure (properly marked and identified road crossings, lanes, traffic lights, bus stops, extra lanes for merging traffic or bus stops or turns).

If I take example of a busy intersection like Chattarpur in Delhi and decide to stop at every pedestrian, I will never manage to cross the intersection. Not only do the pedestrians don't stop jaywalking, they don't use the foot overbridge either in general. I can understand various excuses here to support the pedestrians but ultimately our conditions are not comparable for us to allow following the same standards of driving as we follow in more developed countries. I am sure if we put as many pedestrians and 2 wheelers in any of the European countries (without increasing the infrastructure proportionately), they will either stop moving or also start driving just like us.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by NomadSK

You just echoed my thoughts on the subject, except the one quoted above.
s
Someone once told me there’s a smoothness in chaos on Indian roads

Regarding Indians being unable to drive acceptably abroad, this is not an opinion, but based on facts. I'm a member of a driving license forum in Sweden, and the number of people who claim to be experienced drivers, with experiences of 10-15+ years of driving in India who fail the DL test there repeatedly, is rather high. The operative words there being 'driving in a manner acceptable'. There are even people who have driven in Sweden for a year using their Indian DLs, but the minute they take the DL test, they realize that their techniques are nowhere near what is required or expected. I therefore recommend people to take a few lessons at the driving school, before driving on their own, even if they are allowed by law to drive on their own for upto a year. The most common mistakes made by Indian drivers are poor planning wrt lane changes; not realizing the need to change lanes in a timely manner, because they don't look far enough ahead to see the signs in the first place, then compounding the problem by making a lane change after the point where it is safe or even legal, crossing over solid lines etc. Their performance is roundabouts is very bad, they merge onto motorways far too slowly, hog the passing lane, don't ensure safe separation, change lanes dangerously and without ensuring safe separation to the vehicle being overtaken etc. The failure report from the driving license often lists weaknesses in pretty much every kind of requirement. Lack of speed discipline is perhaps the most common problem. Going too slow in some places mistakenly believing that it's the safe thing, not slowing enough in other places where it is needed, and so on.

[Jeroen]

Just as a general comment. EU driver license are pretty much standardised across all the EU nations.

My Dutch DL is in English as well.

I used it when living in India, but I did get my Indian motor cycle license as my Dutch DL isn’t valid for motorcycles.

In India, but also in various other countries we lived and worked as expats, the local DL expiry date was synched with my Visa expiration date.

I do believe that having learned to drive in the EU allows for an easier transition to driving in India rather than vice versa.

[Dr.AD]

Very interesting observations. Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by supermax

My family has never owned a car, and I only took a handful of driving lessons in India some 10 years ago, before moving to Sweden, without even bothering to obtain a DL.

I learned to drive from scratch in Sweden, and have been driving for close to two years now, and I've driven close to 10k km in that time in my own car

I can totally relate to you as my journey was almost similar. I grew up in India in a family that never owned a car, and I never drove a car in India. Then I moved to the US for my studies, and there I learned driving from scratch. I loved driving in the US, and there was the first time when I became a "driving enthusiast". I stayed in the US for about 8 years, drove all over the country, did several cross-country trips, several solo drives across the width of the US, and then after all that driving experience I returned to India.

And when I returned to India, without an Indian DL, I found myself in the exact same boat as you.

I had to relearn driving in India, and then got an Indian DL. Although that was 20 years ago, it is amazing that all your observations were equally valid 20 years ago too. Nothing seems to have changed. I felt the exact same things 20 years ago as you are feeling now.

It's far easier for a person who has learned to drive abroad to tweak his/her driving styles to Indian conditions than for a seasoned driver in Indian conditions to drive in an acceptable manner in the west.

100% agree. This is what I always felt. All my friends who have learnt or at least have a long driving experience abroad are very good drivers in India. But unfortunately many friends who just learnt driving in India and always drove in India, find it hard to change their habits.

[kiranknair]

Your point number 1 from "The take-home" is absolutely true - it is tougher for a seasoned driver in India to drive in foreign countries. I learned to drive the car around the year 1999-2000 in the humble Ambassador. People then would say that - "If you drive in India, you can drive anywhere in the world". I too believed the same until I went to the US in 2004. I had to unlearn a lot of things and relearn many of the fundamental stuff.

[Rajjay]

I faced the same problem ( switching on the wiper instead of the blinkers) after I got the Dubai driving licence. In the course of time, I got used to driving in both the UAE and India.

[Gansan]

The driving instructor is foolish. Even in India we should not take turns while depressing the clutch. Run away from him. Even here we turn in gear , but should go down to an appropriate gear before taking the turn.

[PetrolRider]

Originally Posted by supermax

The things that didn't work!

1. Whenever I saw a pedestrian, my instinct was to give him/her a wide berth. My driving school guy would shake his head and say that I needed to stay much closer to stop the pedestrian from actually walking right onto my path, with an extended hand!
2. Was a bit unnerving to realize that I could get passed in both directions, and with nearly no margins whatsoever. I got better handling this after the first two lessons.
3. Clutch control instructions by the instructor here were totally against everything I learned in Sweden. When turning at an intersection, we motorbrake, make the gear change before making the turn, and are ready to stop if needed, but never ride the clutch while turning. Here, the instructor insisted that I be fully clutched as I took turns.
4. Even at traffic lights, the instructor would tell me to apply full clutch way before I'd want to do it. I've learned to scrub off speed by motorbraking, and then downshifting when the revs drop, resulting in a smooth downshift with no need for a rev match. Here, the instructions were to clutch fully and use the brakes to slow down. I found him applying the clutch and brake for me, even when I was in control and just wanted to motorbrake more before clutching in and braking.
5. I had to get used to honking. I've used the horn probably three times on the road in the past two years of driving in Sweden. I even remember those instances! Here, I needed to use the horn pretty enthusiastically. I've done more honking in the past week than I'd do for the rest of my life, if I spend all of it in Sweden, I think!

I am driving in India for last 20 years in some of most chaotic cities including Bengaluru and Pune. All I can say you got a cobbler as driving instructor.Run away form him ASAP. Unlike west, driving instructor has no legal liabilities whatsoever on consequences arises from your driving.

Even in Indian road:

1. Always give way to pedestrians. If you hit them or hurt them, then you will be in a very tedious long legal mess. Your 2 paisa instructor wont help you out.
2. You cant help it as the vehicular density is too high compare to any western cities. Your situational awareness help.
3. Clutch control is personal habit, there is no such hard and fast rule in motor vehicle act in India. Riding clutch would result in quicker burn out. Follow your habit to core if you are comfortable.
4. Same as above, there is not hard and fast rules. Engine braking is a good habit that I always follow.
5. Honking is a menace.

Regarding your takeaway, I would say they are persona specific. We can not generalize everyone under same lens.

Edit: There is a Maruti driving school in JP Nagar. Maruti driving schools are generally much better than mushroomed over the night driving schools and follow a structured course. They have a driver' refresher course which might be of your interest.

[narmad]

Originally Posted by supermax

Two wheels vs four

The things that didn't work!

1. I now realized why so many experienced Indian drivers flunk the driving tests in Sweden and UK so many times; it's hard to get rid of all the bad techniques that over the years get burnt into the brain.
2. Most Indians seem to believe that driving in India makes them capable of driving anywhere in the world. The ridiculousness of that assumption and that fact that the ridiculousness is lost upon them is rather amusing. When I told my driving instructor that he'd most likely stick out like a sore thumb, being the only guy who was driving very differently from the rest of the traffic flow, he was fairly shocked. You can spot non-regular drivers on the road there, very, very easily.

My biggest issue was, trying to find the white line to stop at the Signal/Red Light. It was so intrinsic abroad, but here I was at a loss where to stop.

Anybody who drives in Indian Cities has the skills to drive anywhere.
It is easier to learn the rules and incorporate them in your driving rather then getting getting intimidated by the Wild Wild west on Indian streets.

Like my instructor had said, when you drive abroad "think you have your Grandma sitting besides you with a hot cup of coffee filled to the brim"

[Explorer_Jassi]

I would suggest not to try learning how to drive in India if you intent to stay back in Sweden and visit India only for vacations. Below are the few reasons

1. As most of your driving has to be in Sweden/Europe, you might, unconsciously use some of the trick that are "Ok" to use in India but can result in heavy penalties in Europe.

2. Driving in west is, mostly, following the rules, whereas in India it is difficult to reach to your destination within time suggested by google maps if you always follow the book. We need to make constant adjustments to our driving to be safe here .

3. If you intent to stay in Europe for rest of your life, why to spend your time in learning driving, instead spent some quality time with your family.

You can always ask you friend/relatives to drive you around when in India.