[GJ01]

Just got this in my news feed:
https://news.abplive.com/telangana/h...-union-1522107

This seems to be heading for a confrontation between the Drivers and the Aggregators - the one suffering in all this is actually the users of the aggregator platforms, both the drivers and the passengers.

[FiestaST]

Originally Posted by efgritesh

Wondering if you can request to be dropped at a different location after confirming for airport?

Destination was never indeed airport, it's my desired non-airport location, always. I believe they'll only be able to see your true destination after they hit that 'confirm pick-up', that is why they call to decide if the trip is worth their time and effort. Once they realise your destination is not airport, I used to get that angry look in the IRVM.

I just used to cool if off by using something along the lines of - 'I'll tip you and give you 5 stars, don't worry'.

I had to do this because none of the drivers used to come to Doddenkundi, BLR to pick me up.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by RoadTrippin

I don't understand this attitude! Do you not, as a customer, have both Uber and Ola and choose depending on which offers the better price? Do you not have Amazon and Flipkart and decide who sells for cheaper before buying? So every customer who chooses a lower priced service provider is also a crook and a criminal?

I don't understand what is your problem? Do you enjoy being scammed by cabbies? Or do you like being cancelled upon each time?
I am the customer here, I get to choose. The cabbie is a service provider, he cannot choose to offer a service or not. Basic contract law. Also if I book a cab via ola and then see Uber is cheaper, if I cancel the ola or make a no show, i have to pay a cancellation charge. So I am penalised. When the crooked driver plays the same stunt, should hr walk scot free?

[Nissan1180]

A driver cancelled today when he heard that the payment was not using cash. I was surprised because he drove over 4 km to reach the location.

If quick settlements are so important for the drivers, Ola and Uber should implement a daily settlement system. Cash is inconvenient for everyone because it is very difficult to get change. The driver loses an earning opportunity and the customer gets harassed unnecessarily.

[84.monsoon]

It is the epic clash of the algorithms versus the shrewd Indian business instinct. Uber may have outsmarted the arithmetically limited drivers of the USA, however the Indian auto driver or cabbie have a few things working to his or her advantage. The first is the classic Indian jugaad entrepreneur instinct to make money, and when denied that, find and exploit loop holes in the system if need be to ensure this happens. The second is the above-average flair for numbers that is hardwired into the Indian gene. The third is the network effect - where our drivers are much more closely network via WhatsApp , street corner chai chats to share ideas, as well as, some noble well tech-savvy riders wanting to help the little guy against the big Goliaths such as Uber and Ola.

These companies had better realise that unless they pay a fair compensation to the drivers, no amount of AI and algorithms are going to make them successful. By trying to strip off every last penny of compensation from the drivers to boost their paper valuations, these big companies are digging their own graves, as their business model will soon collapse through the loss of confidence of the riders who ultimately pay the revenues in their P&L.

[RoadTrippin]

I don't understand what is your problem? Do you enjoy being scammed by cabbies? Or do you like being cancelled upon each time?
I am the customer here, I get to choose. The cabbie is a service provider, he cannot choose to offer a service or not. Basic contract law. Also if I book a cab via ola and then see Uber is cheaper, if I cancel the ola or make a no show, i have to pay a cancellation charge. So I am penalised. When the crooked driver plays the same stunt, should hr walk scot free?

My problem is that the drivers are not our slaves. There is ZERO contract between the customer and a driver until he accepts the ride. Ignorance of contract law isn't a defence for this mentality. Will any of us accept a job without knowing how long that job will take and how much money we will make? Why should drivers accept it? The problem is with how the ride aggregators treat the cab drivers unfairly and they are finding ways to make a living.

Anyway given our social structure, I am not surprised about most people having this mentality. This is the sad reality of our privilege. We can spend millions of rupees on luxury cars and bemoan the behaviour of someone trying to save 30-40 rupees to feed his family and call them crooks and criminals.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

A driver cancelled today when he heard that the payment was not using cash. I was surprised because he drove over 4 km to reach the location.

If hard cash is the only problem, please check with driver whether he can accept UPI like Gpay. Most drivers I see are okay with it. So you can still select as Cash and pay digitally. Solves both of our problems. I guess the early weekly settlements by aggregators are all due to incentives built around trips in a week but I agree that there should be daily settlement options for drivers who can opt for it.

Originally Posted by RoadTrippin

My problem is that the drivers are not our slaves. There is ZERO contract between the customer and a driver until he accepts the ride. Ignorance of contract law isn't a defence for this mentality. Will any of us accept a job without knowing how long that job will take and how much money we will make? Why should drivers accept it? The problem is with how the ride aggregators treat the cab drivers unfairly and they are finding ways to make a living.

Since you are talking about legality of contracts, there is a contract between Aggregator and Driver. This is not a fixed contract job but a business. Agreement is written such that the driver partner may accept a ride without knowing the destination once he logs in the app and accept to be paid as per terms of contract weekly or 15 days once with the aggregator.

He can log off any time he wants but probably there will be restrictions on the contract. When the driver finishes his trip, he will get another trip without knowing the destination. Most drivers in the vicinity will get, it is their choice to accept or not. If they accept, they should honor the trip. If they don't accept, they can wait till the next trip comes. Some one else will accept. Sometimes no one accepts, customer will get a message that no cabs available. They can decide what they want to do. Mostly this happens with Ola Autos near tech parks. You can try multiple times but no one will accept. Also the contract allows the driver to cancel for his own interest but it will incur a small fee to him. So I don't see that drivers are slaves.

Now, you can argue that this is unfair contract between aggregator and drivers and this is exploitative. Absolutely yes, but I don't see any legal remedy being pursued by the so called unions of Ola/Uber. I will explain, why. Because in CMVR, once you set your status to 'Available to Hire', you cannot refuse a ride which is punishable with fine. It is irrespective of street auto or cabs with these aggregators. It is seldom enforced in our country. CMVR makes this rule to avoid any mass refusal or strike and these are categorized as public services to prevent large scale disruption. It is one the terms in the permit system.

If we have to trace the origin, my hypothesis is that this has all the roots to the street cab hailing system of London in the bygone century and passed on to other countries like India. The London black cabs have to take you anywhere you want within London borough without refusal when you hire them. Probably it is to serve the London elites of that time.

Overall, the system has checks and balances but smart cookies play spoilsport. Some win and some lose but they will eventually take down the system.

[skrao]

Thanks @GTO for this.
My company works of understanding consumer sentiment and we recently did a survey of Uber vs Ola and here is the report

https://inc42.com/features/uber-vs-o...er-experience/

[rajk15]

Key observations from the discussion here on the forum-
1. It depends from city to city (maybe demand-supply equation and general attitude of people)
2. Problem in paying in cash- While I understand that you might want to pay online, if you have figured it out, how difficult is it to carry 1000Rs cash?
3. Many fed-up customers prefer 3rd party/independent drivers: maybe this is because of a larger male footprint on the forum, I for one will be worried for the ladies in my family not taking cabs via these aggregators, where the car's location is visible. Sadly so, now these aggergators only depend on the driver's device and not a car GPS system, I mean the initial installation would be 2000Rs and a 2g sim will hardly charge them another 150-200Rs.
4. Switch to another app- probably the best solution, many here switched to Meru, I prefer inDriver. Obviously, 5% vs 30-35%, the second driver will always be in a bad mood.

I for one, try to interact with drivers- hit a friendly chord with some(most), not so much with others. Honestly, 2 sentences into the conversation and you get to know whether the driver wants to talk or not. What adds to the friendliness is my persistence to sit on the co-passenger seat due to the lack of seat belts at the back (which according to the drivers, most don't prefer, I wonder why- I am actually uncomfortable sitting without a seatbelt, others please share your opinions)

[waypoint]

The erratic behaviours of trip cancellations by the Driver Partners (DPs) of these aggregators stem from the commissions they end up paying to the agreegrators, as per learning the I acquired through many interactions with many DPs over many months during my trips booked with one of the agreegators, Uber.

I do not know about OLA, which I do not use, but Uber takes massive 30% commission, which had been long standing concerns of driver partners (DPs) and is massive exploitation. I believe, OLA would be no different.

What kind of support these aggregators provide to their customers and DPs when it is needed urgently? I believe none for the customers, at least. Is such a high commission justified?

The DPs worry about driving through congested or high traffic areas, especially in peak hours and losing their productive times mostly in waiting rather than driving for longer distances where they could have made more money, which they always need to pay up their monthly liabilities incepted at times when they decided to join these aggregators in the lure of incentives that these aggregators had once.

DPs have found ways to work around the charged commission to increase their net earnings. An assigned DP may sometime call the customer and check for the estimated trip cost (X) before arriving and if that cost is of rupees 400+ (X >= 400), the DP may request the customer, after the customer has boarded the cab and before the trip is started by DP, to cancel the trip and pay the same estimated amount (X) minus trip cancellation cost charged by aggregator to the customer (C) only after arriving at destination. For customers, sometimes, the C gets refunded by the aggregators so for them it becomes a discounted ride but for DP, technically, the charged trip cost was lesser [X-C] yet the DP made more profit because no commission was to be paid to the aggregator. However, this transaction is mostly done in cash therefore they check with customers, beforehand, if they have enough cash on them. DPs are being ruthlessly exploited by these aggregators in each ride that takes place as DPs always overwork to support their liabilities and families.

Again, All of the above are the crux of what I learnt through various conversations I have had with DPs. I had cancelled my trips on multiple occasions after boarding the cab, yet got politely served by them each time even when no trip officially happened for them on record. And yes, most often than not, the C was refunded to me, which made my those trips discounted. If the commissions were not so high, the number of such off the record trips will drastically reduce.

It has indeed become a pain to use these aggregators, especially in peak hours, and the best way I have found is to get contact of a nearby DP and call that person directly for service.

[GTO]

Observation = the cancellation rate on Uber "Premier" is far lesser than Uber "Go". Thanks to the BHPian who earlier recommended the same.

Downside is the waiting period for Premier is generally a little longer than Go, presumably because there are more hatchbacks than sedans in the fleet.

[Chetan_Rao]

The whole phenomenon is a glaring example of how technology isn't the magic answer for everything.

Cab aggregation was supposed to improve availability, pricing, payment options, the whole cab hailing/riding experience, but going by the majority of responses here, each of those issues has been made worse, and people are going back to older analog ways that were based on human contact and trust.

In a system run by humans for humans, it's foolish to ignore the human element. If the drivers and riders go back to dealing with each other directly and cut out the middleman (the convenience is no longer worth the price), as is happening already, cab aggregation as a business model would be in peril.

[RohaNN_kWh]

Video by Brut showcased the Head of Uber India, Mr Prabhjeet Singh driving as a uber driver for a day and talking about the elephant in the room "Uber Cancellations" in the following interview.

Video has paid promotion mentioned in it & looks kinda staged, nonetheless it's reassuring to know they're working towards resolving the issue.

He's seems to be firm on resolving this issue very soon, along with compensating drivers handsomely for longer trips and providing various insurance covers/benefits.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

In a system run by humans for humans, it's foolish to ignore the human element. If the drivers and riders go back to dealing with each other directly and cut out the middleman (the convenience is no longer worth the price), as is happening already, cab aggregation as a business model would be in peril.

This is the main issue. The top brass would only focus on expanding, bringing in investments and what not. They dont care what happens at the working levels. Uber initially had much stricter acceptance criteria for drivers compared to Ola or the then Taxi For Sure, which was the lowest. But then over time, the greed to grow faster brought down these criterion or were fooled with. In the initial days of Uber I would get spanking new cars with well groomed drivers. But now there is everything.

The fleet team which works with the drivers are nothing but corrupt and try to use their discretionary powers to get what they want, and in return the drivers get their rules bent, blocks removed and so on. Hence, there is not much we can expect from these aggregators in the long run when they are chasing growth and volumes and valuations.

[waypoint]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Cab aggregation was supposed to improve availability, pricing, payment options, the whole cab hailing/riding experience, but going by the majority of responses here, each of those issues has been made worse, and people are going back to older analog ways that were based on human contact and trust.

Initially, prices were kept lower to habituate riders to use app based cab services by attracting them through various means including unsustainable discounts. However, in long run, passing the price benefit to rider does not appear to be their priority at any time, otherwise, how would it be justified to charge ₹ 5325/- for mere 6KM or thereabout - Indian Express Source. Such a pricing was nothing but sophisticated algorithm driven robbery that is still difficult to understand by common man even after so much time has gone by after these app based cab services came into being and such robbery were frequent in those days and hence, the government had no choice but to intervene to cap the surge pricing (source Indian Express). Hence, cab aggregators were gradually made to operate in government proposed framework, which led to gradual eradication of incentives given to Driver Partners (DPs) as they no longer could rob unsuspecting rider. If I remember correctly now, the DPs used to get ₹ 5000 incentive daily if they made 14 trips or so in a day and that used to substantially nullify the commission they were paying so they never bothered then about commission.

After incentives were gone, tables turned and it was now turn of DPs to be exploited but the game controller, as always, had been in the hands of cab aggregators and their relentless drive to lead the market including cannibalising the competition further made sure that eventually no one is happy except the investors.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

In a system run by humans for humans, it's foolish to ignore the human element. If the drivers and riders go back to dealing with each other directly and cut out the middleman (the convenience is no longer worth the price), as is happening already, cab aggregation as a business model would be in peril.

It is a win win situation for both and social engineering always worked and will continue to work. Cab aggregation does not seem to be a failed business model, instead, it can be taken as a required element in current scheme of social living, but, it is that greed of extracting higher commissions and lack of touch of human perspectives, which are failing it.

For raising their concerns, the DPs do have unions but they suffer due to corrupt union functioning for reasons we all can understand because those reasons always existed since the time the concepts of ambition or desire or greed incepted in humans.

I have personally come across DPs who regularly work for 14+ hours daily to make ends meet and even go hungry to save money, however, the aggregators and the unions DPs are part of, and other functionaries as well, have not paid enough attention to them.

Not all DPs are good though, but not all are bad either.