[SajiNSalin]

Best to keep sufficient gap from the vehicle in front of you, the gap decided by the speed of your vehicle. When you see erratic behavior including bullying tactics, it is best not to become worse than the offending driver; swallow your indignation, slow down and keep double the distance from him. A moment of road rage can end up in a lifetime of regret. On our roads, be extremely vigilant and cautious and be a safe driver. We have far too many people dying on the roads, don't add to the numbers.

[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by toroid

...
I'm a beginner driver.
...

0:30 - i10 tries to occupy the 10-15 ft space between me and car ahead of me. I did not let it enter. Should I have slowed down?

0:55- Creta tries to enter my lane. Should I have preempted it? I did see the turn indicator. Was I supposed to let it change the lane first?

Firstly, I applaud you on being honest about your situation and seeking feedback. You are already 50% of the way to becoming a safe driver.

Yes, a lot of members here mentioned that you need to practice "defensive driving". Let me explain what it means. Defensive driving means that you must first anticipate what other road users are going to do, and use the correct signalling (indicators and/or lights), speed, direction, and positioning, to create a situation where the probability of an accident is minimized.

So, coming to the 2 incidents in your dashcam footage, here is my take on both these incidents from the perspective of defensive driving.

White i10 - at 0:15, you are about to overtake from the left, his brake light come on. Notice that there is a garbage truck in the right lane ahead driving slowly, and all traffic is cutting into the left lane to overtake the garbage truck. You can safely assume that the i10 driver will also want to do the same. You now have 2 options after completing the overtaking maneuver. Either leave enough gap between yourself and the silver WagonR so that the i10 can cut in front, or close the gap such that he is forced to cut behind you. Whatever you decide is fine, as long as the i10 is in no doubt about where the gap is for him. This is defensive driving.
At 0:27, the i10 has decided to take the gap in front of you, but you decided to close that gap after you noticed him trying to cut in front, probably because you know that taking that gap isn't the best decision. In my opinion, at this point, you should have just let him cut in front smoothly. It was a dumb decision made by the i10 driver to cut in front made worse by you closing the gap. That gap should have been closed by you 5 seconds back.

Amaze/Creta - at 0:52, again, similar situation. Brake lights are coming on, drivers are indicating left. You notice 2 cars, the Amaze and Creta, trying to nose into your lane. This is a slightly trickier situation than the previous one.
The Amaze saw you coming and decided to stay in lane, but the Creta continued to cut left. Poor decision by the Creta, but remember that this sort of driving is unfortunately very common on Indian roads. In your position, I would have let the Creta cut in. To me, he looked like he did not care about causing a collision. It takes two to tango, can't clap with one hand, etc etc. You get the point, yes?

Please don't try to teach drivers on the road lessons that their parents ought to have taught them many years back. No point. They won't learn, and you will either have an accident or end up in hospital with an early heart attack from all the stress.

Always remember one thing. The best safety device is between your ears - that 1.5kg organ inside your skull known as the "brain".

[DogNDamsel12]

Over the years, I have realised that I watch the wheel direction of every car in my proximity to understand which way the car/truck can cut in. This helps to preempt. But this is not the only thing that one should depend on.

I usually would try to also see as far ahead of me as possible - beyond a couple of cars to judge if the vehicle which is 3 vehicles ahead of me brakes, how that will impact the braking of the car infront of me and subsequently me.

If I jam my brakes too quickly, is there a vehicle at the back who can ram into my car from behind?

One thing that surely helps, therefore, is maintaining sufficient distance. Your overtaking even at a very high speed should not disturb other vehicles. I usually make sure that in moderate traffic I am able to see the tyre of the car ahead of me - if I can't I may have to slow down.

The Creta ain't your fault. But anything could have happened at that point. Best to slow down and let them get ahead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYt0wUl5EBE

As a beginner, use indicators like your life depended on it (coz it does!). When you have a choice between slowing down and using your confidence to push ahead, choose the former.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by toroid

Hi All,
I'm a beginner driver......
0:30 - i10 tries to occupy the 10-15 ft space between me and car ahead of me. I did not let it enter. Should I have slowed down?

0:55- Creta tries to enter my lane. Should I have preempted it? I did see the turn indicator. Was I supposed to let it change the lane first?

- In both situations you should have yielded because the vehicle on the right has precedence, especially so if they have already indicated their intention. EDIT - On a second take, I think the first instance at 00:30 is a bit ambiguous. Because of the extreme wide angle nature of a dash cam lens it is difficult to determine the relative position of the two cars. However, my recommendation still stays the same that you should have yielded as a defensive driving measure.
- Moreover you aren't supposed to be overtaking from the left, going by the book.

[atnyia]

Originally Posted by toroid

I'm a beginner driver. I have had many close calls so far during my ~2K kms behind the wheels. However, being only driver from the family there's no one to give me tips or correct me.

As per the rulebook, you did have the right of the way in both cases. But, it can definitely result in road rage someday.

As per the real world, I feel that you are realizing the other guy's move a little late.

The correct way is to always look for the next move of the car(s), not just their as-is, always try to predict what the guy will do next. If you pay enough attention, you can see the maneuver coming just a split second before. For example, slowing down/speeding up a little, slight lane movement. If you don't intend to give ways to squeezers, prempt them and flash them already using dippers. It shouldn't come to sharp braking frequently.

[Raghu M]

You are doing just fine. The Creta and the Dzire guys want to fill in gaps and keep moving. Did you honk by the way? If yes, they can't just turn their indicator on and move right away. As you are new, just keep looking at your ORVMs every 3 seconds. Do it for a while and it will become a habit. Also, do not accelerate too quickly or brake too suddenly. With practice you will get good at it, ensure you drive at least 5 to 8 kms everyday. Do not stick to highways or fast lanes but keep driving in by lanes and small streets. I have one simple philosophy, if you are good at driving in choc a block traffic and slow moving traffic, you will get good at highways automatically. The key to good driving is learning from the start and moving ahead. Good luck! and by the way, the i20 guy was wrong.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by toroid

Hi All,

Basically getting feedback from the community and make roads safer...

Basically, you should have anticipated both the vehicles entering your lane. In fact, we only have the front view, but you were also aware of vehicles on all other sides (and I sincerely hope you were keeping an eye on all your mirrors). In my opinion, you were a little rash - you are not riding a two wheeler, you need to be more accommodating. If you were not in any kind of a hurry, this is not a good style of driving.

If you were aware of the vehicles around you, you should never have allowed the situation to develop to a point where you had to honk and bulldoze your way through. You would have known that the Creta behind you is rapidly approaching besides you and that the truck in front would block the Creta, forcing the Creta to either brake just behind the truck and follow the truck at a snails pace (highly unlikely) or cut in front of you. You would have slowed down to allow the Creta enough gap to smoothly overtake you.

Same with the i10, just let the guy move in, you may have right of way, etc, but unless you were in a really bad mood just give way. And if you are in a really bad mood too, just give way (and unfortunately I don't always follow this advice myself)!

End result would be less honking, less confrontational situations and the drive would seem very peaceful and "smooth". Admitting that you need to learn shows you are a very mature person and you will soon be an expert defensive driver. Good luck and please post a similar video after you incorporate all the advice into your driving, after say, a month?

[toroid]

Thanks all for all the valuable feedback. I did not expect so many responses. As always Tbhp community has been super helpful and does not shy away from writing detailed replies. I think that's what differentiate from rest of the forums.

I was shaken by Creta incident, because it followed by a minor rode-rage (showing fingers, wait for me etc.) I had a fiance with me in the car, hence decided not to engage and move-on (Might have done the same thing in her absence also ). He tried to follow me for a while as well. I was coming back from a ~6 hour long drive and was mentally exhausted. Also, Creta was occupied with 2 tall muscular guys. During similar incident (not a close call, but minor touch in a bumper to bumper traffic) in past I have experienced local language speaking commuters from other cars ganging-up against me. It was super difficult to convey or justify my point in English or Hindi.

To summarize, defensive driving is something that I should learn. I will start practicing that. Some resources or tutorial will be super helpful.

Originally Posted by Thatautoguy46

But always maintain reasonable speeds and respect people who use indicators while shifting lanes. Because, I see a lot of people who scarily switch lanes at triple digit speeds without using indicator.
Drive safe, it is good that you are using a Dashcam

Agreed! But I was already at the speed of 60+ and honked too, I expected Creta to notice his ORVM and change the lane only after I passed. That's what I would have done. I will stop expecting other drivers to do what I do, and anticipate worst behavior.

Originally Posted by Alterlife

If you wanted to keep the lane in the first instance you could have started to speed up a bit earlier. You can tell that the i10 was going to try and cut in because there was a truck in his lane, but he was still speeding up.... where else would he go? If you had picked up the pace a bit earlier and closed the gap with the car in front a bit, he would have slowed down.

I was trying to maintain a safe distance (2 car lengths, At least I think it was 2 car lengths) from the WagonR in front of me since I was driving at ~80 km/hr. Reason I did not let i10 cut in was because, I thought if he cuts-in I will be very close to him and there was a car right behind me. So thought breaking was not a good idea as well.

Originally Posted by Axe77

Merging lanes:

This is super helpful tip. I have been following it since last 2 days.

Originally Posted by VKumar

My Suggestion:Learn defensive driving, be calm and let them switch the lanes, it is not worth the headache and the risk of ego clash. You can overtake them 10 seconds later and again start following the same car you were following before, isn't it?

In general I'm very calm and accommodating driver, especially inside city limits. I think 6 hour long drive, a traffic challan to my fiancé for obstruction of traffic (she is a beginner too, and her car stalled at a signal intersection near Mandya) got into my head. Will definitely find an anchor point to remind my-self to be calm while driving, no matter what is the situation. Getting into a serious accident and hurting my own or anyone else's family is the last thing I want.

Originally Posted by whitewing

The garbage truck is slow moving and yet the hyundai anyway comes charging in, overtaking you. This by itself is a good indication it is driven by someone who doesn't know driving/is an inconsiderate driver.

When I passed i10, I saw a guy in early 40s on the driver seat with a 6-7 years old kid in the passenger seat without seat-belt. Sent chills down my spine.

Originally Posted by Hayek

In the Creta’s case, you were still passing the car behind him when he started changing lanes - I can see no reason whatsoever to bully him. The fact is people have the right to change lanes, and may do so for different reasons. Especially on a flyover, it is better to give way as long as you don’t have to slam your brakes to do so. In both these cases, you were not in that position

I agree that he gave indicator when I was more than 3 car lengths behind him, but I was already at 60+ and he was at very low speed. When the WagonR in front of me passed him, I has almost past the car behind him and was at a 1 car length from him and still at the same speed. I always check my mirror before switching lanes, and expected him to do the same. Unfortunately he did not. I will try to anticipate such behaviors. Should I have flashed my headlight instead of honking?

Originally Posted by KiloAlpha

Firstly, I applaud you on being honest about your situation and seeking feedback. You are already 50% of the way to becoming a safe driver.

Yes, a lot of members here mentioned that you need to practice "defensive driving". Let me explain what it means. Defensive driving means that you must first anticipate what other road users are going to do, and use the correct signalling (indicators and/or lights), speed, direction, and positioning, to create a situation where the probability of an accident is minimized.


Please don't try to teach drivers on the road lessons that their parents ought to have taught them many years back. No point. They won't learn, and you will either have an accident or end up in hospital with an early heart attack from all the stress.

Point taken!

Originally Posted by Raghu M

The Creta and the Dzire guys want to fill in gaps and keep moving. Did you honk by the way? If yes, they can't just turn their indicator on and move right away. As you are new, just keep looking at your ORVMs every 3 seconds. Do it for a while and it will become a habit. Also, do not accelerate too quickly or brake too suddenly.

Yes, I did honk. This is a good advice. So far I look into mirror only while changing lanes or breaking (Although sometimes, I do not get enough time before breaking.)

Originally Posted by mvadg

You would have known that the Creta behind you is rapidly approaching besides you and that the truck in front would block the Creta, forcing the Creta to either brake just behind the truck and follow the truck at a snails pace (highly unlikely) or cut in front of you. You would have slowed down to allow the Creta enough gap to smoothly overtake you.

To be honest I did not. I have habit of looking into mirrors only while changing lanes. Will follow @Raghu M's advice to look into mirrors more frequently. I had overtaken the him 10 seconds ago. When WagonR in front of me slowed down to let Dzire cut-in, I slowed down too to maintain 2-3 car distance (I was at around 80km/hr). That's when i10 sped-up and tried to squeez its way in. I did not feel comfortable to let a car cut-in so close at that speed and decided to hold my lane and honk.

Originally Posted by mvadg

Admitting that you need to learn shows you are a very mature person and you will soon be an expert defensive driver. Good luck and please post a similar video after you incorporate all the advice into your driving, after say, a month?

Definitely. Will post a clip from my next trip when I try to be a more defensive driver. However, it is difficult to pin-point an incident where you have been defensive. We tend not to remember experiences without highlights (something going wrong or something really good happening).

[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by toroid

Thanks all for all the valuable feedback. I did not expect so many responses.
...
However, it is difficult to pin-point an incident where you have been defensive. We tend not to remember experiences without highlights (something going wrong or something really good happening).

You are most welcome!

See this analysis video of making non-events out of potential events. It is from the UK, but the basic principles apply here as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6E3yEeKuRk

[swoosh]

Personally, I would have slowed down in both the cases. Why? It's simple - in case of accident, it's not just the wrong one who pays the price but you and your family will also go through the pain. The safety is more important than who is right or wrong. This is my lane and I'm right does not work in India.

[Kosfactor]

Dear Toroid - You were driving Rash! I would not want to sit in a car driven that way , whoever was with you was equally annoyed - probably would not have told you about it.

Okay - now for the serious bit.

If you are a new driver, take it slow - A lot of things in terms of operating the car will be come natural. Taking it slow means you will learn to 'read' the road ahead and see what speed each highway out of Bangalore demands, watch what the experienced good drivers (commercial especially) do on the road. This way you brake less, maintain a steady pace , do not swerve and makes it very pleasant and safe for others to sit in the vehicle with you.

Horn should be used sparingly else you are just part of the noise spectrum especially for the bigger vehicles, some of them can really make your life difficult.

Happy Motoring!

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by toroid

Hi All,

I'm a beginner driver. I have had many close calls so far during my ~2K kms behind the wheels. However, being only driver from the family there's no one to give me tips or correct me.


0:30 - i10 tries to occupy the 10-15 ft space between me and car ahead of me. I did not let it enter. Should I have slowed down?

0:55- Creta tries to enter my lane. Should I have preempted it? I did see the turn indicator. Was I supposed to let it change the lane first?

My opinion: Personally in both cases I would have given way. By default, the way majority of the folks here drive, what you did cannot be considered wrong. The issue is that when you want the other person to back off, the decision is taken out of your hand and you have no idea what the other person will do. In these examples itself, in the first case, the i10 backed off sooner, in the 2nd case both of you did not let go till the last minute and the Creta is forced to back off.

If you drive in this manner, you will continue to have a lot of close calls because you are expecting the other driver to respond in a certain way which may or may not happen. So as others have said, as a new driver, it is always better to practice defensive driving so that it is under your control. Once you are more experienced, you will be able to do that balance between defensive driving and offensive driving better.

Also, in the 2nd case, the Creta has put the indicator and wants to come into your lane, the good driving practice is to allow it.

Another small tip since I saw your point on using mirrors. Any left turn you make, keep your eyes on the left mirror all the time. Expect a few two-wheelers to use the gap you make as you turn left to rush through.

[NevGin]

The thing to remember is this: What you eventually should do, will not be in line with a rule book.

In my opinion, you have been absolutely correct in your driving manners, using the slower lane, maintaining a good distance from the car ahead and pacing yourself. Just because another car signals does not mean you need to brake and abruptly stop as some one could rear end you (remember tailgating/following too closely is NOT an offense as far as I know).

However here comes the tricky part - If you don't give way, there is a high probability of a collision. The Creata for example. The indicator that that driver gave only indicates their intent of wanting to move lanes and should do so ONLY when things are safe. But did that driver even care? He don't give a horses behind whose on the side. GIVE INDICATOR - I HAVE RIGHT OF WAY. Unfortunately this damages our cars.

My advice to you is that build perception what a driver might do next. It will happen over time and once you build that you will automatically look out for such behavior well in advance and take appropriate caution.

Take care and keep driving safe.

[shivshanker]

Originally Posted by toroid

Hi All,

I'm a beginner driver. I have had many close calls so far during my ~2K kms behind the wheels. However, being only driver from the family there's no one to give me tips or correct me.


MODs: Please delete/ merge if similar threads already exists

Hello toroid, happy and safe motoring always.

There are a few things I learnt in my life owning vehicles for the past 3 decades or so. These are my experiences, which might NOT address your immediate requirements, but I feel these are good tips for the longer run. I will give you a brief context so that you can appreciate where I come from;

1. 1993, 3 years into a computer maintenance job, territory assigned to me was Mumbai Fort, next Kandivalli (~40kms), another one in Nava Sheva (~80 Kms) and the last one was in a village in Raigad district another 120kms.

So in all as a computer maintenance guy, I had to travel almost 5-6 thousand Kms every month, hence went in for my own Maruti 800, I was getting around 5rs. for every km. run and in those days, I used to save even after EMI and fuel, hence I took real good care of the car, slightest squeak etc. used to change parts as Money was not the issue.

1996 went abroad, after almost 1.5L Kms on the odd, leaving the car parked in front of my house, never to see it again.

Long story short, I burnt money thinking I was trying to take good care of the Car and that it will remain with me for a few years etc. etc. However, I got a good chance to move abroad did it, the car did not even matter at that time. I just left it parked for my wife to sell it off later, It was sold for 1.5Lakhs.

First Lesson : you do not know what your future holds for you, do not make 2x 5 year plans.

2. After settling in, I bought a 3lt Accord V6, a powerful beast, I was told by my immediate supervisor, that petrol is cheap, do not risk your life if you miss a turn off, do not Panic, as at High speeds, controlling the car can be difficult.

Next lesson : Safety first, rather me and the passengers first.

3. this car the accord, lasted me for 10 years, inspite of a high speed crash during it's 6th year it was saved, both my kids were brought home from the hospital in this very vehicle, kids used to call it the Teddy car, I sold the car when it was time for me to move, took only the teddy from that car, for the kids sake and then came the Baleno, the The same teddy hung in that baleen till this one also crashed on SCLR in 2014.

Next Lesson learnt, whatever be the memories, pictures and memories will do the trick, again based on lesson 1, nothing is permanent in this world.

Another lesson learnt, the real payback for the car starts after you complete 5 years and keep using it for another 5 years, without having to worry about loan repayments etc.

4. Post this have been relocated again to 4 different locations and each one a new car, a Jeep Wrangler, a Nissan Navara, another Baleno, a new Thar the BMW Z4, each has its own set of emotions and find memories.

Next Lesson : but had to leave all of them when I got my next assignment, nothing is permanent in this world, do not fret when you have a scratch on your vehicle or even somebody bangs into it. You have insurance they are supposed to pay for it period.

during this journey, I also had to light my father's pyre, that journey to the crematorium, the next day collecting ashes, of my father, changed a lot of my perspectives, would vehicles matter after this??

Now, some driving facts

1. Always check your mirrors they are not for lipstick or combing, wear your seat belts at all times, Do not over speed, Maintain tyre pressures. 40K kms change them or for signs of the first wear and tear.

2. understand the nuances of parallel parking, Learn to use Handbrakes while parking, and also finer details like taking care of the directional aspects of your front wheels when you park on a slope.

3. Learn to look over your shoulder and judge distances between you and the next car, keep braking distances. Get familiar with the Blind spots in your car, depending on your height and regular seating position. this helps, learn to peer into your driver side mirror to get a clearer view of the vehicle behind you.

4. Driving is not a chore for moving you and the occupants from point A to point B, think about the occupants comfort as well, avoid Harsh braking and sudden jerks while driving, always take our Indian speed brakers on 2nd gear.

5. the white and yellow lines on the road, these are not PWD money making schemes, learn to understand the usage of these lines, will help you for ever in your life, as this terminology is more or less the same across the world. You can then comfortably drive anywhere.

6. Similarly, get into a habit of looking our for road signs as the Yield and Stop signs, are very important, i.e. if you can find then on the roads, again driving is not just turning the steering wheel and saying "jhooi Jhooi" like a 3 year old.

Now this is enough, if you want more I can also talk, feel free to PM me.

Cheers

[bejoy]

A lot of great advice from everyone! Glad that @toroid takes all the advice positively.

Originally Posted by toroid

---

Also, Creta was occupied with 2 tall muscular guys.

---

I was trying to maintain a safe distance (2 car lengths, At least I think it was 2 car lengths) from the WagonR in front of me since I was driving at ~80 km/hr. Reason I did not let i10 cut in was because, I thought if he cuts-in I will be very close to him and there was a car right behind me. So thought breaking was not a good idea as well.

---

When I passed i10, I saw a guy in early 40s on the driver seat with a 6-7 years old kid in the passenger seat without seat-belt. Sent chills down my spine.

You seem to observe things that are unnecessary for the drive. Just keep the eyes on the road and the vehicles around you, nothing more. Avoid eye contact as much as possible, eve through the mirrors. And don't bother much about the traffic behind. If someone is tailgating, give way and let him pass. Having someone at the tail and you keeping an eye will likely influence your road manners.

Having said that, it is tough especially when driving towards the city with all the madness, trying to keep with the traffic and everyone is in a hurry to take a pee. I normally take a coffee break before I enter the city limits to get fresh and be prepared for the madness.