[ARAY]

Thanks for sharing such detailed blog. For sure now all of us have a first hand knowledge of how things operate in the app-cab region.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by Yieldway17

I really question these numbers as Uber global regularly mentions that they are losing money in India and needs capital investment to grow here.

These two are different things. Uber India would need funds whenever it starts operations in new city (operations / marketing / incentives).


For existing operations, operating cost is not that high. Net Income for last couple of filings is positive.



If you have access to D&B or Bloomberg, look up statements for : U74120MH2013FTC247008

[Rehaan]

Awesome thread Blackwasp!

Originally Posted by blackwasp

Attachment 1767381

What is Boost* in this invoice? Is it the incentives?

And what's included in Promotions?

Originally Posted by blackwasp

My drivers have received incentives based on the total business done (e.g. do a business of Rs. 2500 and get Rs. 3500) and on the number of trips completed (do xx trips and get Rs. yy extra).

Number of trips is a rather unfair way to give incentives in my opinion. Drivers who end up doing longer distance trips, or trips during peak hours (ie. longer time for the same kms) end up suffering for no fault of theirs.

I wonder if the Uber algorithm also allocates drivers taking into account their average trip distance/time -- though I doubt it.

[JohnyBoy]

Originally Posted by rajwheelz

...
2. Almost all Uber drives ( and fewer OLA ) I was in *had* to be requested for switching on the AC. Else they dont. Is AC a convenience offered as "complimentary" or is it a part of the fare to use AC?

Thanks.

I have noticed the same in Bangalore. AC is not on by default. We have to request/ask the driver to do. But in Mumbai, that is not the case. AC is on always. Not a single time I had to ask the driver.

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by ashishy

1) What is cancellation fee? How is it added and not deducted?

When the customer cancels (after 5 mins of booking), they get charged a cancellation fee. This fee (earning) seems to be passed on to the drivers.

If the driver cancels - I'm not sure if there is a financial penalty -- @ blackwasp?

Originally Posted by ashishy

2) In cases where you take season pass of Tolls, do you still get paid for every trip? This would be additional profit right?

Yes, I'd imagine that's your saving/profit (not to mention the time & efficiency increase of going through the ETC lane).

When these passes didn't exist on the Sea Link, I've seen Uber drivers buy return trips as a bit of a gamble just to save Rs. 10

[ashishy]

Originally Posted by nishantbhatia84

Didn't quite get your first question here! What do you mean by 'added and not deducted'?
Cancellation fees become applicable to riders if they are to cancel post 5mins of booking a cab. In case you cancel due to an excessive delay in driver arrival, you can dispute the cancellation fees and in most cases it is refunded without any issues.
Drivers get paid cancellation fees charged to riders post commission deduction.

Answering your second question - the monthly pass for Mumbai entry points is around 1400 bucks. Assuming that the driver passes through one of the tolls twice a day, the total toll money he'll make is 1,750 which is not a huge profit! It's a win-win for both drivers and passengers as etc tags save time.
In my case - I used to pass through the sea link at least 4 to 6 times every day, and used to get charged just 150 bucks on my tag, but still made 60 bucks for every time I crossed the sea link while on a trip!

In the earnings screenshot, cancellation fee is added. My first question was pertaining to this earning. But you have answered the question. This earning is all the money that has not been refunded to riders, right?

My next set of questions:

1) Did your car meet any accident? What is the impact of such incidents with relation to Uber?
2) What is your experience of Uber Pool?
3) What is the criteria for Uber Black? How did only Ecosport fit the bill? I have been in an Altis as well

Thank You!

[JohnyBoy]

Originally Posted by Prafful_Rathod

...
Many a times driver accepts the booking and the expected time of arrival for driver will be shown as 7 - 8 minutes, after 5 minutes it will again show 7 minutes, so the wait gets longer (once it became almost 25 minutes). The driver is not cancelling the ride for obvious reason (trying to keep his records clean). When I try to cancel Uber charges cancellation fees saying you have exceeded minimum time window for cancellation!! This is very annoying at times.

Once I was allotted one cab and it took eternity to come, then the driver cancelled, Uber automatically booked another cab which gave time to reach pick up point as 20 minutes and I was forced to pay cancellation charges for cancelling the ride without any fault on my part!!

..

Just send a mail to Uber support, they will refund / reverse the cancellation fees without any question. Did this 3-4 times in last 1 year.

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by Prafful_Rathod

When I try to cancel Uber charges cancellation fees saying you have exceeded minimum time window for cancellation!! This is very annoying at times.

+

Originally Posted by JohnyBoy

Just send a mail to Uber support, they will refund.

You don't even have to email them anymore...

Just go into:

Trips > Select Trip > Help > Problem with cancellation fee

The cancellation fee will get refunded to your account instantly.

No guessing who's pocket that comes out of though (ie. the driver won't get the cancellation fee).

[ashishy]

Cancellation fee to me seems to be just a scare tactic to discourage cancellations. Refund is just one click away no questions asked.

[nishantbhatia84]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

When the customer cancels (after 5 mins of booking), they get charged a cancellation fee. This fee (earning) seems to be passed on to the drivers.
If the driver cancels - I'm not sure if there is a financial penalty

In most cases, even if the cancellation fee is refunded to the rider, it's paid by Uber and not deducted from the driver's account. I've only had one or two instances wherein Uber reversed the cancellation fees, however, I disputed the same and got it back as everything is logged on the Uber driver app.
If a driver cancels a trip, there's no financial penalty however his cancellation rate will go up and after a certain threshold shall result in suspension of his account.
The same goes for acceptance rate as well. I had a driver who's account got suspended as his dozed off while online and failed to accept any of the 5-odd trip requests he got - resulting in an acceptance rate of below 70 percent overall.

Originally Posted by ashishy

My next set of questions:

1) Did your car meet any accident? What is the impact of such incidents with relation to Uber?
2) What is your experience of Uber Pool?
3) What is the criteria for Uber Black? How did only Ecosport fit the bill? I have been in an Altis as well

Thank You!

A1: Yes, I did meet with one in Feb 2016 - where a passenger from another cab opened the door (on the wrong side) of his car into my passing vehicle at the airport. I had a rider in my car but there were no injuries as this happened at 5 kph. I made the mistake of reporting this to Uber - where they only called me to check if me and the rider is ok and offered no other assistance whatsoever. In-fact they placed a temp suspension on my account and asked me to visit their office once my car is fixed and get it inspected before the account can be reactivated. This was ridiculous as they didn't bother to check the car once fixed and just reactivated it on the spot - but I still had to waste half a day to visit their office for this!

A2: I've only driven with UberBlack so have zero experience of UberPool. Only UberGo and Premier vehicles are put into UberPool.

A3: Your vehicle has to be worth more than 10 lakh otr in order for it to be eligible for UberBlack. Not sure what the criteria is at this time.
Regarding the Ecosport, it was at that time the cheapest possible option eligible for UberBlack and also meeting all my requirements i.e. AT + Petrol.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

What is Boost* in this invoice? Is it the incentives?

Boost is the the multiplier based incentive for running the car at certain times of the day. Basically its a flat surge for all trips from an area. Generally its available between morning and evening peak hours that acts on the base fare. I'm attaching some trip invoices that should clear things up. There can be either of Surge or Boost but not both.


Take a look at some of these surges. Contrary to the popular belief of Uber eating this up, this is a good incentive for the operator. Eg. in rains, riots or other conditions, the operator is also putting his cars at risk. Its fair that you pay extra for such times.

And what's included in Promotions?

Whatever promotions are going on for the week get added here. They are usually based on trips. Sometimes there was a flat Rs. 1000 bonus on doing the Mumbai Pune trip when Uber intercity was launched. However, these days haven't got any intercity trips.

Example:

Number of trips is a rather unfair way to give incentives in my opinion..

Depends, generally, the average trip fare and the earning per hr online figure has remained more or less constant. Its only when the incentives are given does it make it profitable to run. Consider this, the entire incentive amount covers the car's fuel, toll and washing charges. And Uber has been fair so far, so its not like one driver just keeps on getting long trips all the time. PS- one pickup and drop is considered as one trip in Pool as well.

I wonder if the Uber algorithm also allocates drivers taking into account their average trip distance/time -- though I doubt it.

Good point. Many Ola drivers and even I have experienced being at the unfair end of things. Unlike the weekly incentive schemes, Ola comes up with special monthly schemes for say a month or maybe a fortnight. But when you work hard and need 6 trips to complete it in a day, Ola will deliberately send you on longer trips, making sure that you don't complete the incentive conditions.

Originally Posted by ashishy

2) In cases where you take season pass of Tolls, do you still get paid for every trip? This would be additional profit right?

Originally Posted by Rehaan

When these passes didn't exist on the Sea Link, I've seen Uber drivers buy return trips as a bit of a gamble just to save Rs. 10

Right, monthly toll pass is 1400 bucks for 5 entry points in Mumbai. On a bare minimum, the car does 1 roundtrip requires tolls for Rs. 70 (35+35), thats Rs. 2100 monthly or a saving of Rs. 700. However, most days the cars crosses tolls at least 4 times a day. Run in 2 shifts and see the savings multiply.

[royalbeat]

Awesome thread blackwasp. Very informative

Although I prefer Uber over Ola - maybe it's just a psychological thing for me or maybe just because app looks cleaner and easier to use (subjective).
There are still couple of things I like about Ola, and which in my opinion should be replicated by Uber:

1) OTP at the start of the trip really helps in cases where drivers start the trip before the passengers even board the cab. My colleagues in Navi Mumbai have faced this problem multiple times by one such driver until Uber removed him.

2) Ola notifies about car allocation with details like car no., driver name, etc. One thing that Ola does well is to include car colour in the notification. It really helps to locate the car quickly in a city like Mumbai/ Bangalore where there are literally thousands of cars around you.

[Vysakh]

Originally Posted by royalbeat

One thing that Ola does well is to include car colour in the notification. It really helps to locate the car quickly in a city like Mumbai/ Bangalore where there are literally thousands of cars around you.

Not in Bangalore. 99% of the time it's either white or silver, just like every other yellow board cab.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

I'm attaching some trip invoices that should clear things up. There can be either of Surge or Boost but not both.
Attachment 1775887

Take a look at some of these surges. Contrary to the popular belief of Uber eating this up, this is a good incentive for the operator. Eg. in rains, riots or other conditions, the operator is also putting his cars at risk. Its fair that you pay extra for such times.

Thanks for this - one of my grudges was the lack of a break-up of where the fare goes. I remember in the initial years; they used to give customers a different break-up of the total charge - by kms + by waiting time and so on.

1. Regarding the surge criteria; considering the additional surge % goes directly to the drivers, does Uber (and/or Ola) give a view to drivers on how they are structuring the algo to determine the charges?

Sometimes it reaches very absurd levels; for e.g. recently on a Monday morning while it was raining; the ride amount nearly tripled for a pool (and single) ride. This is my daily route at that time (for nearly a year); average amount is ~155 - 225 INR; that day it went to ~550 INR. I can understand that Monday morning + rain + peak time are the factors; but then by what basis/logic?

2. On the same note; any patterns that you (or your drivers) have observed in the surge amounts? For me; on the return trip; if it is after 9; then Uber always turns out to be cheaper than Ola. Similarly in the mornings; if I leave Powai by 7:30 - 7:45, the fares are basic; 8 and up the surge kicks-in, but haven't been able to figure out/observe a increase pattern for Uber vs Ola. Trying to see if there is a method to the madness

[vinitbhavi]

An absolutely fantastic thread Kanad. You have achieved and ventured into a self learning business at such a young age and kudos to you for that India needs many more such young enthusiastic entrepreneurs . The drivers seem to be such a varied lot and it must take some formidable effort to deal with all such kind of folks. The thread is crisp, detailed and very well written, rated it the 5 starts it deserves.