[sgiitk]

As for strictness or otherwise in admissions, it is a matter of supply and demand. The research programmes, funding, promotions are all dependent on your student availability. So if the pool is small you have to compromise more.

Let me add that PhD students are becoming an increasingly rare commodity globally. Even in India many engineering departments in IITs are under strength as far as PhD scholars go! As one very senior and eminent metallurgist said, if a Research Student agrees to join a Doctoral pogramme in Engineering at a German University, there is a very good chance that the Professor will receive him at the airport!

[acurafan]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Let me add that PhD students are becoming an increasingly rare commodity globally.

I am not so sure. The Global recession was especially good for US universities where the incoming Ph.D batches of 2009 and 2010 were easily twice the size of the regular batches. Most EE, CS, Econ, Math majors who used to go Wall Street had no takers and they were back to grad school. It was the first time in my experience where there were more domestic students compared to International students. Also Chinese universities have no dearth of good Ph.D students neither do Koreans nor Japanese schools.

On the other hand I agree with you regarding Indian universities where there is a serious lack of Ph.D students in most programs. You are probably the best person to explain why most students do not join the graduate program.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by acurafan

I am not so sure. The Global recession was especially good for US universities where the incoming Ph.D batches of 2009 and 2010 were easily twice the size .... Also Chinese universities have no dearth of good Ph.D students neither do Koreans nor Japanese schools.

After 2010 things are again going in the same direction. However, these are still had times. I suspect the drought will become more acute once the economies recover. Korea and China are a different situation, as for Japan at one time Univ of Tokyo had started an English Language PhD program.

On the other hand I agree with you regarding Indian universities where there is a serious lack of Ph.D students in most programs. You are probably the best person to explain why most students do not join the graduate program.

It is simply financial. Any good BTech from an IIT or NIT starts at 8L+, typically 12L+ pa. I do not trust the average figures in the Press, look at the Median figure, otherwise a few abnormally high figures can distort the average. If he goes for a PhD then after another four or five years the maximum start will be under 1L. AT the moment with the uncertain situation in the US many are coming back, but for how long I do not know.

Almost all higher end institutions in India are desperately short of faculty, be it IITs, IIMs or AIIMSes. Even existing ones are not getting the talent.

[acurafan]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

It is simply financial. Any good BTech from an IIT or NIT starts at 8L+, typically 12L+ pa.

That is partly right but similar difference exists in US too. A grad student earns around $1300-1600 pm based on the school compared to an engineer who can earn around $75-85K pa even more if he is in California. The Ph.D student when he joins the industry 5 years later probably starts some where around $100K-110K pa which is not significantly more compared to the fresh BS. The advantage is one gets to work on problems that are very different from what a BS+5 years gets to work on. The career progression is much faster if someone is reasonably good. Typically these are marquee projects and has lot more visibility.
The bigger problem in India is what one can do with their Ph.D. Frankly there are very few jobs in India that needs a Ph.D. Unless we have a significant improvement in the manufacturing, financial, pharmaceutical, technology sectors we cannot employ the Ph.Ds properly and hence we will always have a dearth of Ph.Ds. It is a catch-22 situation.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by acurafan

The Ph.D student when he joins the industry 5 years later probably starts some where around $100K-110K pa which is not significantly more compared to the fresh BS. The advantage is one gets to work on problems that are very different from what a BS+5 years gets to work on. The career progression is much faster if someone is reasonably good. Typically these are marquee projects and has lot more visibility.

I think you have missed the point. A fresh B Tech gets much more than a PhD who has spent four-five years. The BTech after five years will be on double teh starting salary.

The bigger problem in India is what one can do with their Ph.D. Frankly there are very few jobs in India that needs a Ph.D. Unless we have a significant improvement in the manufacturing, financial, pharmaceutical, technology sectors we cannot employ the Ph.Ds properly and hence we will always have a dearth of Ph.Ds. It is a catch-22 situation.

I think there are some sectors like Biotech and Pharma who need PhDs. Here salaries are also Ok. As for the rest I agree with you, except many off shore R&D labs hire a few of them, mostly for mundane work.

[acurafan]

Some wise words from one of our best professor from UG days
[FONT=&quot]http://www.scholarsavenue.org/2009/1...k-basu-speaks/[/FONT]

[Samurai]

Recently I received a linkedin request from an old acquaintance. After accepting, I browsed through his profile and was shocked to find a recent PhD degree. Out of curiosity, I checked out the university and got even bigger shock. It was from a degree mill. Why would a senior management professional need a fake Phd from a known degree mill mentioned in his Linkedin profile? Just beats me.

PS: At first I mentioned the fake university by name in the post. Then I realised this acquaintance is the only Indian on Linkedin alumni list for this fake university. This thread is full of researchers and you'll all be able to identify the individual. So I have removed the name.

[manolin]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Recently I received a linkedin request from an old acquaintance. After accepting, I browsed through his profile and was shocked to find a recent PhD degree. Out of curiosity, I checked out the university and got even bigger shock. It was from a degree mill. Why would a senior management professional need a fake Phd from a known degree mill mentioned in his Linkedin profile? Just beats me.

PS: At first I mentioned the fake university by name in the post. Then I realised this acquaintance is the only Indian on Linkedin alumni list for this fake university. This thread is full of researchers and you'll all be able to identify the individual. So I have removed the name.

Arre you will be in trouble if the old acquaintance gets to know you are trolling him here If he is putting it up on his linkedin profile, that means he is happy for the relevant professional contacts (and no one else matters really) to know that he got a phd from there. Us knowing which is degree mill might help us in ways. So go ahead and reveal all.

[Samurai]

It is just one of those degree mills that will give you PhD for your life experience. There are hundreds of those around the world. This one is in USA and they take credit card. You never have to visit them. Mentioning it will rat him out, so I will leave it alone.

[manolin]

Originally Posted by Samurai

It is just one of those degree mills that will give you PhD for your life experience. There are hundreds of those around the world. This one is in USA and they take credit card. You never have to visit them. Mentioning it will rat him out, so I will leave it alone.

Are you serious there are places like that? Would you need to be a Master's, for getting a life experience Phd? I am assuming that these are like the Phds which are given to political leaders by desi universities. Can you give some links, not to that specific college but to some other similar colleges.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by manolin

Are you serious there are places like that?

They have been around forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mill

And let's not forget India's most famous degree mill, which is mentioned in the above wiki article.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...king-iipm.html (Thinking of IIPM?)

Originally Posted by manolin

Would you need to be a Master's, for getting a life experience Phd?

They will even give you Master's or Bachelor's if you need. You only need credit card to push you from highschool pass to PhD.

Originally Posted by manolin

I am assuming that these are like the Phds which are given to political leaders by desi universities.

Not the same thing. These are actually legitimate and properly accredited or recognised by the government, despite being a joke.

[manolin]

Originally Posted by Samurai

They have been around forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mill

And let's not forget India's most famous degree mill, which is mentioned in the above wiki article.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...king-iipm.html (Thinking of IIPM?)

They will even give you Master's or Bachelor's if you need. You only need credit card to push you from highschool pass to PhD.

Not the same thing. These are actually legitimate and properly accredited or recognised by the government, despite being a joke.

Thanks. Thats pretty interesting. Honestly there are lots of jobs with INGOs/World Bank type places which I can't apply to because they have a pedantic insistence on a Masters - and I don't see the point of doing a Master's in my field because it teaches you nothing new and nothing which you wouldn't have picked up in a couple of years of professional work (which is already very theory/bookish heavy, as compared to other fields). May be these might be an answer to that problem - alternatively, maybe I will just sign up for an IGNOU program.

[Samurai]

Somebody I know just got his PhD, he is 79. This must be really tough. I had recently read his book and we used to discuss it. He sent this news to me.

http://www.bangaloremirror.com/news/.../30477365.cms?

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by manolin

Honestly there are lots of jobs with INGOs/World Bank type places which I can't apply to because they have a pedantic insistence on a Masters

I agree globally a Master's is irrelevant. Even I India many IITs are now running integrated Master's-Doctor's programmes. We have had the option of joining a Master's in Engineering and then switching to a Doctoral programme from the very inception. Our recent Director SG Dhande had done exactly that in the early 1970's.

[Samurai]

A very nice article on what is the right reason to pursue doctorate. Have to confess even I was not very clear until now why people did Phd or DBA.