[Zodak]

Originally Posted by RJK

Good discussion and very relevant to me. I have a 1.5yrs old baby girl and am doing homework for schools.
Cheers

What's the right time to think about schools? My son is 1.5yrs too but instead of school, we are evaluating what outdoor activities we can involve him in. Should I start thinking about schools right now?

[RJK]

Originally Posted by Zodak

What's the right time to think about schools? My son is 1.5yrs too but instead of school, we are evaluating what outdoor activities we can involve him in. Should I start thinking about schools right now?

Haha, even I used to think there’s a lot of time but I was told otherwise! Depending on where you stay, ease or difficulty of getting admission in a good school, one must start planning. By school, I also meant play school, nursery etc. Too much pressure these days I tell you, for the parents!

Like you, I also want/Ed my baby to enjoy outdoor play as much as possible but these poor children are so unlucky because of COVID that a lot of their time is spent indoors

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by Zodak

What's the right time to think about schools? My son is 1.5yrs too but instead of school, we are evaluating what outdoor activities we can involve him in. Should I start thinking about schools right now?

Originally Posted by RJK

Haha, even I used to think there’s a lot of time but I was told otherwise! Depending on where you stay, ease or difficulty of getting admission in a good school, one must start planning. By school, I also meant play school, nursery etc. Too much pressure these days I tell you, for the parents!

Like you, I also want/Ed my baby to enjoy outdoor play as much as possible but these poor children are so unlucky because of COVID that a lot of their time is spent indoors

Yes I do think we are unnecessarily fretting over the right 'school' for our kids and hence end up paying undue fees for uncalled for infra at schools these days. My son is 3.5 years old. The only thing that I worry about is getting an admission in a school nearby my house. I have three options - CBSE, ICSE and IB. I know I will never choose IB on account of my ability to pay. My daughter (younger) will also go to same school as my son and hence paying for IB education for two kids is out of the question. All the schools in my vicinity have required infra/facilities and also consistently rank in top 10 schools in Mumbai area. Fees for all is nearly in the same range too (CBSE and ICSE I mean).

Link many have said, Good Teachers matter more than Good Curriculum. I am myself an example of that. I studied in State Board (SSC) unlike many on this thread. Then did BE from MU in my chosen field. My classmates from school as well as MU have done great. Some are doctors at the best hospitals in US, some are engineers at companies such as MS and GOOGLE while some have become entrepreneurs and have managed to raise a few 100 Crs for their business from VCs/PEs. As for myself, I am less of a risk taker and took the well defined path. Worked after my BE for few years and then self funded my education in US and immediately came back to India for work. Then there are some of my batchmates who are doing regular 9-5 jobs across India. But in the end, all are happy. I haven't come across anyone who isn't happy or regrets what he/she is doing.

So we are fretting a lot over schools. A good school with good teachers is enough that a child needs. Rest is all what the child takes out of it. So running after the 'best' school is pointless to be honest, if it leads to a compromise of some other important factors.

[androdev]

We changed many schools for all sorts of reasons. It is easier to eliminate bad schools compared to selecting the right schools. My criteria:

Top level criteria - this doesn't depend on budget or syllabus.
1. As less commute as possible
2. No school on Saturdays
3. As fewer hours in school as possible
4. Should not have to carry all books and notebooks everyday back and forth
5. No elaborate dress code like multiple types of uniform for different days of the week

Budget based criteria:
1. If school offers lunch, etc. then it must be of good quality
2. Lower work load on teachers (teacher to student ratio, number of sections teachers handle, etc.) and well-paid/empowered teachers. No painful principals (low probability).
3. Spaciousness of the school and classrooms, etc. (Don't care about sports infrastructure in schools, it's absolutely useless - better to opt for sports activities outside of school)

Syllabus based criteria:
1. ICSE is just way too rigorous. It is the darling of convent schools. Want to move on from them :-) This is the fixed-deposit version of investment.

2. CBSE is evolving in the right direction and they are making it less stressful. More choice in schools. Newer CBSE schools are trying to bring in the best practices from around the world. However the soul-crushing Indian competitive exams do not suit the "chilled out" CBSE system so those wanting to do professional degrees (Eng, Med, etc.) will have to study at a level way above what CBSE requires. I still feel this is better because you can opt in or out depending on your requirements. Budget friendly. Offers more flexibility in future. This is mutual funds version of investment.

3. IGCSE/IB, etc.: VERY expensive. Cheaper ones don't do justice I feel and better to go with CBSE instead. I am not trying to be elitist but teachers and peers need to be at a certain enlightenment level for kids to thrive in this curriculum. Students from these schools are likely to be misfits for our proven model of "competitive exams > professional degree > jobs+promotion". Kids will be more knowledgeable but will not manage our 1000 multiple choice questions in 10 minutes type of competitive exams or reproducing the textbooks in board exams. This is the dilemma for parents - what good is to be more knowledgeable if you don't fit the prevailing ecosystem. This is preferred by families who wish to send their kids abroad or have enough financial backing not to depend on local jobs or immigration. Or parents who just want the kids to have a good education without predicting future prospects. This is VC version of investment.

I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain -John Adams

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by RJK

I have been told that IGCSE board is also good, anyone have experience with it? Supposedly Nahar international school in Powai

Don't know about this school. IGCSE itself is pretty good. Advantages :

1. Lesser rote learning as compared to CBSE/ICSE
2. Less workload on students
3. Ability to pick specific subjects from 9th itself.

Originally Posted by androdev

1. As less commute as possible
2. No school on Saturdays
3. As fewer hours in school as possible

+1, probably the best case scenario for kids.

Originally Posted by androdev

3. IGCSE/IB...... Students from these schools are likely to be misfits for our proven model of "competitive exams > professional degree > jobs+promotion".

A different perspective on this topic. Quoting my old post :

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Responding to a very old post.., now I have first-hand experience with this.

One benefit of International boards is : ease of entrance exam prep.

1. From 9th onwards, subjects become specialized (Commerce stream, Arts stream, Science stream etc).
2. No need to include difficult languages in 9th, 10th.
3. One can avoid History / Civics in 9th , 10th
4. Useful Comp Science in 9th / 10th (Not the syllabus where students have to rote-learn MS Office menu) . This is optional.

This gives a student :

1. Two extra years for exam prep (Ability to focus on Finance / Comp Science / Engineering / Medical from 9th)
2. Alignment between Exam-prep and school

Students can select any 5 subjects from following :

[One]

Originally Posted by Saanil

But how does one judge the quality of teachers at a particular school? I wish I could sit in all the classes and judge myself

One more question: Are teachers in IB schools trained differently? One person was telling me that IB schools hires few teachers from abroad and hence they charge higher fees. I am not sure if that is the case. What is the typical batch size in IB? We used to have 40-45 people in one class (ICSE school).

For lower classes, teaching is easier, so I would put in a school which has best "reputation" , whatever that means. For higher classes, as has been pointed out, students going for tuitions is a good indicator of that specific teacher. Having said that, there is no school/ College/ University which has all teachers good.

IB can have anything from 20-40 students based on the school. Yes, IB teachers need to teach differently so they are trained differently. But then ICSE teachers also teach differently from my State board as the way the syllabus is used to teach is different. For example, in state board, we were taught division the long division method. In ICSE, they are being taught division is multiple subtractions.

Originally Posted by Saanil

If possible, can you kindly suggest some good schools in the suburbs? I stay in Goregaon (West) area. Of course I will do my own research on these schools as well.

As per preliminary research, Vibgyor is a decent ICSE school in Goregaon near link road. Any other good schools - even CBSE/IB is fine? I think Mumbai has very few CBSE schools.

Have seen most schools in the East side, Ryan, Gokuldham, Yashodham, Oberoi and Vibgyor(West) you mentioned. I would just put in the school closest to you and with Sports teams. The reason for mentioning Sports is not to say a child should play but it is an indicator how seriously a school takes non-academic activities (everyone pushes academic ones like Spelling-Bee, Olympiads etc.)

Originally Posted by RJK

Supposedly Nahar international school in Powai is well known for it. Anyone can back up or refute?

Cheers

I knew a couple of parents who sent their kids there and both were happy with the school. Have been to the school multiple times and the infrastructure is good as per Bombay standards. I can't remember the fee but if I am not mistaken, it was 3.5 lakhs for primary class a couple of years back.

Originally Posted by Zodak

What's the right time to think about schools? My son is 1.5yrs too but instead of school, we are evaluating what outdoor activities we can involve him in. Should I start thinking about schools right now?

That outdoor part is good. Too early to think about schools in my opinion other than few schools which want forms to be filled i think when a child turns one (e.g Cathedral John in Mumbai).

[androdev]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

A different perspective on this topic. Quoting my old post :

Agree there is a choice (which is fairly limited btw) but one still has to do 7 subjects and the level of learning is very demanding leaving very little time for JEE/NEET type of prep. The kind of assessment that happens in IGCSE is very different from typical Indian exams that there is very little synergy compared to CBSE.

The much bigger hurdle is the aptitude. A student of IGCSE is less likely to put up with the type of rigour that JEE/NEET demand. The opposite of Kota world. Very few want to go through it. Fewer make it. Even worse, those who make it, don't like the experience in typical engineering/medical colleges. I know of some students who dropped out of such colleges.

I run the risk of generalising but IMHO it is very counter productive to do IGCSE past grade 8 if the long term plan is to get admission into Indian engineering/medicine colleges.

[NetfreakBombay]

My experience is different. My neighbor's son did JEE prep along with IGCSE few years back and my son did that last year.

Originally Posted by androdev

one still has to do 7 subjects and the level of learning is very demanding leaving very little time for JEE/NEET type of prep.

One has to study only 3 subjects. I will highlight those :

PCM
Biology
English
French / Hindi
IT / Comp Science

Reason :

PCM is already covered in JEE prep and is at a much higher level as compared to IGCSE/ICSE/CBSE (E.g. : Kinematics involves basic calculus in 10th @ FITJEE or PACE or similar). They will at least be somewhat familiar with chain rule and integration by parts by end of 10th class.

So, only thing they need to study for PCM is "how to write answers".

IT is really easy and scoring. My son took Comp Science due to interest, but that is not the norm for JEE.

Originally Posted by androdev

The kind of assessment that happens in IGCSE is very different from typical Indian exams that there is very little synergy compared to CBSE.

IMO, that is a good thing. Most questions for PCM in IGCSE are based on application of concepts. That is what JEE expects as well.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

My experience is different. My neighbor's son did JEE prep along with IGCSE few years back and my son did that last year.



One has to study only 3 subjects. I will highlight those :

PCM
Biology
English
French / Hindi
IT / Comp Science

That's a total of 7 subjects. Phy, chem, math, bio, IT, two languages. I do see your point and I think it's a good strategy to get PCM coaching to crack JEE and use the same learning to do the IGCSE exams. You have convinced me that IGCSE can be compatible with the goals of cracking JEE, etc. Don't you think it's more expensive and a much harder way to go about it compared to CBSE? The only advantage is that students can avoid one or two subjects they don't like (history, geography and the likes). I wish there was a way to avoid biology for math students (and vice versa) - that would have been very cool.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by androdev

Don't you think it's more expensive and a much harder way to go about it compared to CBSE?

Yes, its way more expensive. 3.5 lakh for school (9th + 10th) and 4 - 6 lakh for JEE Prep.

Only benefit of IGCSE is better teaching of language and ability to drop either PCMB or other subjects depending on stream.

Originally Posted by androdev

I wish there was a way to avoid biology for math students (and vice versa)

In theory, yes. But not possible in practice. Schools need to keep number of permutations/combinations manageable, so only few options are available.

IIRC, this is an option in CBSE too (at least in Open Schooling) but schools can't manage logistics.

[sunilch]

There is no relevant thread but this is the closest one. I am surprised there is no mention of this in our media as otherwise most articles from WSJ, Reuters or Bloomberg are replicated immediately at our end

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/...es-2021-07-25/

This ban on for profit education is a step in right direction as otherwise Education will become like Healthcare.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by sunilch

This ban on for profit education is a step in right direction as otherwise Education will become like Healthcare.

In theory, for-profit education is already banned in India. That does not make any difference in practice.

Say one wants to open an school :

1. charitable trust will run the school
2. All "services" to the Trust will be provided by a different entity
3. This entity will be For-Profit

If 20 lakh are received by the trust , accountants will ensure that all that money is spent in a way trust itself does not make any profit. "Owners" of the school will still make money via this "services" entity. This entity will provide building on rent, training services for teachers and "consultancy" for curriculum design and such.

[bhardwhu]

Originally Posted by Fx14

Did they choose any specific subjects in 10th equivalent of NIOS to pursue higher studies abroad?

Are there any limitations to the recognition of the NIOS certification for further studies?

Regrets for the delayed response. They chose regular subjects such as Maths, Comp, Sci, Economics, Sciences etc. I and my family have not seen any restrictions from NIOS. In fact, the freedom in terms of time helped the kids spend more time learning what they found interesting and which was otherwise not possible with the rigor of school home works and miscellaneous engagement. I recall one of the children finishing up the entire syllabus in about three months without any coaching or tuition since there are ample self learning opportunities within NIOS. Overall, a very good experience and saved quite a bit of money, which was used for other learning pursuits.

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by androdev

3. IGCSE/IB, etc.This is VC version of investment.

Hello there. I am in the process of deciding whether to opt for ICSE or IB (the two syllabuses the school offers) for my kid for 1st standard in the coming academic year. We have fixed this particular school, so other syllabuses are out of question.

We have no much ambitions as such at the moment and at the same time no plans to send him overseas later on. We just want to give some good education. Is IB the way to go when compared to ICSE? I kind of understood the advantages that IB brings on but what is that he will loose out if put on IB. I heard one of the main thing is that there will not be focus on second language. Is that a true statement? The school is of a reputed group with huge campus and infrastructure.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Hello there. I am in the process of deciding whether to opt for ICSE or IB (the two syllabuses the school offers) for my kid for 1st standard in the coming academic year. We have fixed this particular school, so other syllabuses are out of question.

We have no much ambitions as such at the moment and at the same time no plans to send him overseas later on. We just want to give some good education. Is IB the way to go when compared to ICSE? I kind of understood the advantages that IB brings on but what is that he will loose out if put on IB. I heard one of the main thing is that there will not be focus on second language. Is that a true statement? The school is of a reputed group with huge campus and infrastructure.

I am in a similar situation. The only difference is I have to decide between Cambridge/CBSE. Me and my wife been pulling our hair thinking about it. We analyzed it to such an extant that we don't know which direction to take now.