[TKMCE]

As someone who studied state syllabus but with my son studying in ICSE , here is my feedback. My son is in ICSE from Class I.

What I like.


Syllabus is fantastic. I stress "syllabus" .Well thought out , covers key areas and even for languages the syllabus has a well rounded view. I can never forget the sight of the bewildered look of my son while he tried to understand the history of the Modern and Ancient Olympic games -- a chapter in - you will not beleive this - his Class III (or was it II) Malayalam text book . Among his Hindi lessons in a junior class was one on Vagamon and its surroundings.

Now all this sounds fantastic but atleast in Kerala some of the best teachers are the ones in state syllabus schools. Reason is simple. Maybe with a few exceptions private school teachers are paid peanuts especially in junior classes. End result is most of the time the quality of teaching is far below par for a demanding syllabus like ICSE in junior classes. And outside of the major cities, do not expect much support in terms of guides/coaching centres etc. As one book seller in a major Kerala city told me - with very few schools and even those prescribing different text books, it is not worth their money to stock guidebooks except the very popular ones for higher classes. So in other words be prepared to spend a lot of time helping out your kid at home if you opt for ICSE and living outside a big metro city.


What I do not like

a Lack of standardised text books.

ICSE prescribes the syllabus but schools opt from a choice of text books brought out by different publishers. From the experience with my son, standards vary widely. Some are well written while some others seem to be nothing more than what the author noted down during his/her time as a student. While Pythogoras Theorem may not have changed in the intervening 20 or 50 years , the same cannot be said of for instance in the case of rules regarding Hindu Undivided Family Business in India where laws have significantly changed. In other words I have come accross quite a few cases where text books are not updated. I assume this problem should not be there in State and CBSE syllabus where there are standardised text books.


b Forcing to specialise in Class IX itself instead of Class XI.

As I understand, in State (Kerala) and CBSE, Maths and Science is complusory till you finish Class X. In ICSE the specialisation starts from Class IX. You have to chose between either Science or Commerce from Class IX. And even worse, Maths is not complusory from Class IX if you do not take Science. For Commerce there is a stream where you can opt for Economics instead of Matmematics (I cannot understand this logic). While this may be beneficial for students who genuinely have no interest or aptitude in Mathematics, often schools push students who may have been just victims of indifferent Mathematics teaching to skip both Science and Mathematics altogether. A lot of schools only care about their results. So if they feel that your ward may be a problem in them getting good results they force you either to chose Arts or Commerce (without Maths as an optional subject) or openly suggest you take your ward elsewhere from Class IX onwards.


To sum up I am not saying ICSE is bad. But be prepared to a spend a lot of time tutoring your kids from Class VI to Class VIII, else you may end up with an unpleasant surprise from many schools at the end of Class VIII.


The above opinions are entirely mine . Others ofcourse may have a different story to tell.

[tj123]

The COVID pandemic over the last one year has exposed the quality of teaching at school where my kids attend. Each year the school is charging a handsome amount and I don’t think it’s really worth it. Seriously, I am planning to pull the plug on regular schooling. I am exploring the NIOS/Home schooling way to teach kids at home, I anyways work from home all the time.

Does anyone on this forum has any recent experience with home schooling ?

[bhardwhu]

Originally Posted by tj123

Seriously, I am planning to pull the plug on regular schooling. I am exploring the NIOS/Home schooling way to teach kids at home, I anyways work from home all the time.

Does anyone on this forum has any recent experience with home schooling ?

My extended family has had this wonderful experience of home schooling. Mother left her corporate career after few glorious years post her Wharton MBA. Taught two young sons at home, traveled across country and exposed them to different themes, including a large portion in a Gurukul. Regular certification happened through NIOS. Two years back, one kid made it in Stanford and the other is in Georgia Institute of Tech. It has been satisfying to see these young men evolve into confident and value driven individuals.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

CBSE - Good for entrance exams, not much else
International boards - Good if you are planning to send your kids abroad for higher education, creativity, slower pace of learning, not much else

Responding to a very old post.., now I have first-hand experience with this.

One benefit of International boards is : ease of entrance exam prep.

1. From 9th onwards, subjects become specialized (Commerce stream, Arts stream, Science stream etc).
2. No need to include difficult languages in 9th, 10th.
3. One can avoid History / Civics in 9th , 10th
4. Useful Comp Science in 9th / 10th (Not the syllabus where students have to rote-learn MS Office menu) . This is optional.

This gives a student :

1. Two extra years for exam prep (Ability to focus on Finance / Comp Science / Engineering / Medical from 9th)
2. Alignment between Exam-prep and school

Students can select any 5 subjects from following :

[Fx14]

Originally Posted by bhardwhu

Regular certification happened through NIOS. Two years back, one kid made it in Stanford and the other is in Georgia Institute of Tech.

Did they choose any specific subjects in 10th equivalent of NIOS to pursue higher studies abroad?

Are there any limitations to the recognition of the NIOS certification for further studies?

[Saanil]

We have 3-4 children in our extended family (based in Mumbai) who are 2-3 years old now. Their parents are hunting for schools these days and we have had some debates regarding the best board (CBSE / ICSE / IB / Cambridge) for education. I also have a 2 month old son and I know that after 2 years, I will also have to make a decision regarding his education.

It seems like IB is the favorite these days as it is regarded as the best curriculum for the overall development of a child as opposed to the rigid curriculum of age old boards like CBSE / ICSE.

I just wanted to seek guidance from experienced folks here regarding their thoughts on selection of education curriculum. I finished my schooling almost 15 years back hence my views are probably outdated. I studied in an ICSE and I think the curriculum was good enough.

In my humble opinion, the quality of a teacher supersedes the quality of the curriculum. I do not know how I can judge the quality of any curriculum but I do know that a good teacher can be a game changer in terms of understanding concepts. As an example, I used to struggle a lot with physics during my IIT-JEE preparation but when a particular teacher started teaching at my coaching institute, I started scoring better marks and became fairly comfortable in understanding tough concepts. I attribute this solely to the teaching style of that particular teacher. I never really developed this level of comfort with subjects like mathematics or chemistry. I know it is not fair to blame my teachers for this as they worked hard to ensure that all students excel in these subjects. But I Just did not click with them the way I clicked with my physics teacher.

I had a similar story with respect to computer programming in school. Initially I struggled a lot with writing computer programs for simple problems as I had a hard time in understanding the school teacher who was teaching our class. After low scores in the periodic tests, my parents arranged for an external tuition teacher who used to come to my house and teach me. This tuition teacher used to explain tough concepts to me in an easy manner and helped me in getting my basics right. It was again because of my tuition teacher that I got good marks in this particular subject.

Based on these experiences, I feel that a good teacher is more important that the curriculum. What do you guys think? Do you believe boards like IB have any fundamental advantage over boards like ICSE / CBSE? People tell me that IB board is good if you plan to send your child abroad post schooling as their curriculum is more suited to the curriculum followed abroad. Is it really the case?

[One]

Originally Posted by Saanil

In my humble opinion, the quality of a teacher supersedes the quality of the curriculum.

....I attribute this solely to the teaching style of that particular teacher.....It was again because of my tuition teacher that I got good marks in this particular subject.

Based on these experiences, I feel that a good teacher is more important that the curriculum.

100% agree.

Good teacher >> Good School >> Good Curriculum

My school of thought is completely in line with what you mentioned about good teachers being of primary importance. Today I can teach Computer Science in a way that can interest kids and make them understand it well. And I am able to do this while interviewing freshers in a very short period of time.

In all the autobiographies I have read, each one of those people had fine mentors which exponentially and postively influenced them (they could have been parents, teachers or someone else). The only exceptions to this were where situations were so harsh that it forced some of them to excel by force of will and intelligence.

What do you guys think? Do you believe boards like IB have any fundamental advantage over boards like ICSE / CBSE? People tell me that IB board is good if you plan to send your child abroad post schooling as their curriculum is more suited to the curriculum followed abroad. Is it really the case?

Based on what I have now been observing with my kids, nieces/ nephews, and friends, some of their experiences:
- After IB board, could not cope with Mumbai University Engineering course (or approach). Recommends sending abroad. My view though is that a person who has done IB (XI-XII) only, and regular Indian syllabus before that will not have an issue with a higher degree course from India simply because for ten years, they studied the "current Indian schooling" way.
- One of my cousin's older son is from St.Stephens Delhi after ISC. Her younger one, she sent him to IB and then he did his undergrad from UK from a reputed place. She feels that her younger son is more aware and can communicate better due to his IB-Undergrad background as compared to the older one.

But there is one more aspect to this- am not too concerned about my kids not being the best 18 year olds in terms of awareness around them or quoting the classics. So I am totally fine with them not being from an IB board but rather from a School which is competent. They have to work/ earn for decades, so evolving at a different pace and style without necessarily knowing about Aristotle is totally fine for me as long as their basics like habits and resilience are good.

Summary is , I didn't think about boards too much at the stage your kids are in.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by One

100% agree.

Good teacher >> Good School >> Good Curriculum

My school of thought is completely in line with what you mentioned about good teachers being of primary importance. Today I can teach Computer Science in a way that can interest kids and make them understand it well. And I am able to do this while interviewing freshers in a very short period of time.


Summary is , I didn't think about boards too much at the stage your kids are in.

But how does one judge the quality of teachers at a particular school? I wish I could sit in all the classes and judge myself

I agree that selection of board might not be a major factor in the long term well being of your child. We as parents try a lot to make sure that our children grow up to become successful and education can play a huge role in that. But no board can offer a probability of that happening.

Based on some preliminary discussions, the fees for IB tends to be very high. I have heard IB fees to be >4 lakh per year. One of my colleague is paying 3 lakh per year for nursery in Cambridge board (classes happening online currently). I am guessing ICSE / CBSE schools should have lower fees.

One more question: Are teachers in IB schools trained differently? One person was telling me that IB schools hires few teachers from abroad and hence they charge higher fees. I am not sure if that is the case. What is the typical batch size in IB? We used to have 40-45 people in one class (ICSE school).

[NetfreakBombay]

My son recently finished school, so answer is based on that experience.

Originally Posted by Saanil

But how does one judge the quality of teachers at a particular school?

We relied on reputation of teachers that provided tuition. For example, PCM, French and Comp Science. Teachers for these subjects are really expensive so schools tend to skimp on that.

Teachers from good schools take classes for other kids. And that is s good source to get inputs w.r.t. competence on subject as well as teaching.

If teachers from School A usually have good reputation as tutors, it is a positive data point. They must be prohibited from taking School A students , otherwise a negative data point.

Originally Posted by Saanil

I agree that selection of board might not be a major factor in the long term well being of your child. We as parents ... education can play a huge role in that. But no board can offer a probability of that happening.

Agree. In my opinion and experience, engagement of the parent is the most crucial factor in success.

Originally Posted by Saanil

I have heard IB fees to be >4 lakh per year. .. I am guessing ICSE / CBSE schools should have lower fees.

In suburbs, it is around 2 lakh per year. For example, in one school; fees is 1.5 to 2.5 lakh per year (nursery to 12th) and one can choose IGCSE/ICSE board.

For CBSE, fees is 60k to 1 lakh per year.

Originally Posted by Saanil

One more question: Are teachers in IB schools trained differently? One person was telling me that IB schools hires few teachers from abroad and hence they charge higher fees. I am not sure if that is the case.

Not sure about abroad, but teacher quality in some schools is pretty good. Level of teaching for Comp Sc exceeded my expectations (E.g. no rote learning of menu items, good emphasis on basics and coding and real life use cases).

Originally Posted by Saanil

What is the typical batch size in IB? We used to have 40-45 people in one class (ICSE school).

Max 30, usually 20 - 25.

[Jash2709]

I did not realise that the thread started more than 10 years back!
Never the less

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have been going through the same predicament for my nephew! Let me share a little about my thinking!

I am ICSE and proud!
Being an engineer, ICSE gave me an edge over students from other boards during my junior college as well as engineering years. Until 1st sem engineering I was sort of studying what I had already learnt in my 9th and 10th in ICSE. And this knowledge gives you a sense of confidence to deal with things! While students in my junior college from other boards would be like " Avogadro what?" and at the same time ICSE students could already calculate the number of moles of whatever molecules in the water bottle that the teacher had!

Apart from sciences, the language fluency is another level leading to amazing presentation as well as communication skills! On the other hand, I was just going through NCERT syllabus and it has been diluted to a level which does not make sense.

I believe that these years of schooling are one's foundation. Stronger the foundation better position you are in to grasp various stuff ahead. Agreed that it could get overwhelming at times but then a student is never as sincere and more absorbing as he's in school! In ICSE, we had an electives like computer application/ technical drawing which we were taught extensively over a period of two years. I learnt the same thing in engineering in 6 months, which people usually can't cope with leading to a weak-ish foundation.

Sadly I no longer have good ICSE schools in my neighborhood and I am left to either opt for exorbitantly priced IB and IGCSE schools ( they have great curriculum but I can not just digest paying 4 lacs an annum for schooling with fee rises every few years) or CBSE whose curriculum I despise.

With the new education policy which is going to be implemented soon, ICSE or CBSE would not matter soon as everyone would have a similar curriculum. Unless they find loop holes. Never the less, if at all you are okay with paying extra, do consider IB! I am not very confident on IGCSE as of now though.

Also, I feel apart from the boards, a school's pedigree is just as important. A prestigious SSC/ CBSE might be better than a newly opened international school.

PS What part of Mumbai are you from?
If at all you reside near to John Connon or Bombay Scottish or Dhirubhai or J K Singhania, just APPLY!

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

My son recently finished school, so answer is based on that experience.

In suburbs, it is around 2 lakh per year. For example, in one school; fees is 1.5 to 2.5 lakh per year (nursery to 12th) and one can choose IGCSE/ICSE board.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion! This is really helpful!

If possible, can you kindly suggest some good schools in the suburbs? I stay in Goregaon (West) area. Of course I will do my own research on these schools as well.

As per preliminary research, Vibgyor is a decent ICSE school in Goregaon near link road. Any other good schools - even CBSE/IB is fine? I think Mumbai has very few CBSE schools.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by Jash2709

the language fluency is another level leading to amazing presentation as well as communication skills!

+1

I was amazed by level of difficulty for English and French in IGCSE. 9th class students are expected to write proper essays (No flowery language, coherent writing, well constructed arguments, well-structured in terms of outline, body, argument, conclusion.... and so on).

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by Saanil

If possible, can you kindly suggest some good schools in the suburbs? I stay in Goregaon (West) area. ....

My view is biased. It is based on two things :

1. IITJEE + Comp Science
2. Languages + Literature

These are the two career paths my kids chose.

1. Mainadevi Bajaj ( 2 to 2.5 lakh per year, choice of IB/ IGCSE)
2. Witty Pawan Baug ( 1.5 to 2.5 lakh per year, choice of ICSE/ IGCSE)
3. Billabong ( 1.5 to 2.5 lakh per year, IGCSE in Andheri; CBSE in Malad)

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by Jash2709

PS What part of Mumbai are you from?
If at all you reside near to John Connon or Bombay Scottish or Dhirubhai or J K Singhania, just APPLY!

I stay in Goregaon West. The schools you have mentioned are good but are too far from my place. I believe many schools have pincode based admission criteria.

I agree with you on the language part. ICSE schools are well known for their focus on English subject (although I hated studying Shakespeare in 9/10th standard).

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

My view is biased. It is based on two things :

1. IITJEE + Comp Science
2. Languages + Literature

These are the two career paths my kids chose.

1. Mainadevi Bajaj ( 2 to 2.5 lakh per year, choice of IB/ IGCSE)
2. Witty Pawan Baug ( 1.5 to 2.5 lakh per year, choice of ICSE/ IGCSE)
3. Billabong ( 1.5 to 2.5 lakh per year, IGCSE in Andheri; CBSE in Malad)

Thanks NetfreakBombay! I will check these out.

[RJK]

Good discussion and very relevant to me. I have a 1.5yrs old baby girl and am doing homework for schools. I am from CBSE and my wife is from ICSE, but I hear from everyone that IB is the board to send. Somehow I feel it is restrictive in terms of choice for graduation, in the sense one must send their child overseas. Who knows, maybe 17yrs later there might have been strong disruption in education space, negating the need for paying exorbitant fees towards overseas undergrad education. Though we would like to send our child, we would not like to be forced!

2nd point is the outrageous fees IB schools charge, like 4-5 Lakhs...what the heck! I have been told that IGCSE board is also good, anyone have experience with it? Supposedly Nahar international school in Powai is well known for it. Anyone can back up or refute?

Cheers