[NPV]

After the Indian batting blitz with Kohli's 150+, West Indies are giving a good fight in the second ODI, 253/5 in 37 odd overs and tad above required run rate.

[Arjun Reddy]

Tied match. I am so glad that this Windies team is a reality check for us in the ODI format.

Sure, they wouldn't have got this close if Bhuvi and Bhumrah were leading the attack.

[vinit]

Became a fan of Shimron Hetmyre today. What a batsman and what fearless batting. Felt that match will be finished by 40th over. Memories of great WI batsmen like Viv Richards, Brian Lara came to surface.

Sobers, Lloyd, Joel Garner, Micheal Holding, Viv Richards, Desmond Haynes, Gordon Greenidge, Malcolm Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Lara, Hooper... Wow... The list is endless. The WI team of 80s was the team to beat. Fearless cricket and sporting cricket.

Genuinely hope that WI again becomes the super exciting team it was, once upon a time.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

There is absolutely no way you can compare batting records in across different times.

Looks like someone gave it a try
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...kar-comparison

Originally Posted by vinit

Became a fan of Shimron Hetmyre today. What a batsman and what fearless batting. Felt that match will be finished by 40th over. Memories of great WI batsmen like Viv Richards, Brian Lara came to surface.

This series seems like a perfect audition for the IPL scouts (unless he already has a contract). His finishing needs some er, finishing touches. A couple of seasons with the IPL will set him up nicely. As it has perhaps set up the English batsmen; Root, Stokes, Morgan, etc.

I hope he is in for the long haul and becomes a true great like the others you have mentioned. The new bowler McCoy also bowled well.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Looks like someone gave it a try
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...kar-comparison

The writer has selected best stretch in Sachin's long career (between 1994-2001) and compared with Kohli's overall career. Sachin made his debut in 1989. Why leave out this period? Because the records don't match up?

[vinit]

Originally Posted by msdivy

There is no comparison between Kohli and Sachin. Though Kohli is still half way in his career, he has won far more matches for India, in all forms of cricket than Sachin.
Sachin was very attractive player, looked good when he played the shots. Longevity is another Sachin's strength. But Kohli has been more successful in terms of wins for India.
When batting got tough, baring few innings in his long career, Sachin usually gave his wicket away. Kohli doesn't seem to have any trouble while batting. Kohli is one of the top ODI Batman in the history and No 1 ODI batsmen when it comes to chasing in the history of cricket.

There are many differences in the era of Sachin and Virat.

1. Quality of opponents bowling.- Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar, Wasim, McGrath, Warne, Vaas, Murali, Donald, Pollock, Gough, Cairns. Every team had world class bowlers. Even the team like Zimbabwe had bowlers like Heath Streak and Olonga. I clearly remember, bowling economy of Ambrose used to be 3 runs per over. Imagine that happening now.

2. Pitches - Cricket economy has played a major role here. People come to see sixes and fours, so pitches have become flatter and flatter. Boundaries have become shorter. Even in Australia and england boundaries are now quite inside, whereas in the 90s, batsmen needed to run 4 runs there.

3. No contest between bat and ball - The ODI and T20 matches have now become our batting vs your batting contests.

4. New rules - Now 2 balls are used in every innings of an ODI which has totally removed the reverse swing aspect. In the 90s, batting used to get very difficult between 35th to 45th over due to reverse swinging old ball. Also, powerplay used to be only 1 in the 90s whereas now there are 3 powerplays. Also no free hit concept was there.

5. Technology - No DRS in 90s. I clearly remember how many times Sachin has been given out when he was actually not. Remember shoulder before the wicket and one Mr. Bucknor.

6. Because of competitions like IPL happening now in almost every cricket playing nation, almost all international players know the other players fairly well. They know each other's game very well. No mystery deliveries or mystery bowlers anymore.

In a nutshell batting has become so easy nowadays that almost all top 5 players of every nation have batting averages in 45+ range.

Kohlis 100 runs are like 100 Rs in the year 2018 and Sachins 100 runs are like 100 Rs in 1995. Who's value is more ? Even the petrol was 35 rs back then.

And the last thing is, Sachin was not just great on the field, but he was far far greater off the field. It's this unique combination which made him the God of cricket. A true Bharat ratna.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Looks like someone gave it a try
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...kar-comparison

And I find that nauseating.

Originally Posted by vinit

There are many differences in the era of Sachin and Virat.

Exactly. The quality of opposition, pitches, rules, bats, your own team mates, umpiring, DRS - There is absolutely no correct way in which players from different generations can be compared.

Then is just comes down to personal choices. The strokeplay that SRT had, just made you go Wow! I mean SRT facing McGrath or Wasim or Pollock, just an amazing battle. Even ODI pitches used to be a bit fairer.

I can compare Kohli to his current teammates and even players of other countries, players like Root, KW, Smith, Warner etc and you can conclude, he is probably the best ODI players right now. But that's about it.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by vinit

There are many differences in the era of Sachin and Virat.

Agreed that there sre so many differences but you've listed only from one perspective IMHO.

1. Quality of opponents bowling.- Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar, Wasim, McGrath, Warne, Vaas, Murali, Donald, Pollock, Gough, Cairns. Every team had world class bowlers. Even the team like Zimbabwe had bowlers like Heath Streak and Olonga. I clearly remember, bowling economy of Ambrose used to be 3 runs per over. Imagine that happening now.

While I completely agree that the bowling of those days were wonderful, I won't attribute everything to the bowlers. Good bowlers these days have so much more in their armoury. But if they are still going for runs, don't you think part of the reason is batsmen like Kohli have improved their skill and ability to deal and score off them.
Another part of the reason why we feel bowling these days is not great is probably because of your point 6

2. Pitches - Cricket economy has played a major role here. People come to see sixes and fours, so pitches have become flatter and flatter. Boundaries have become shorter. Even in Australia and england boundaries are now quite inside, whereas in the 90s, batsmen needed to run 4 runs there.

Yes but on the other hand, Fielding is so much more better these days and they reduce the Batsmen's runs by a huge amount. That balances these "easy runs" IMO

3. No contest between bat and ball - The ODI and T20 matches have now become our batting vs your batting contests.
4. New rules - Now 2 balls are used in every innings of an ODI which has totally removed the reverse swing aspect. In the 90s, batting used to get very difficult between 35th to 45th over due to reverse swinging old ball. Also, powerplay used to be only 1 in the 90s whereas now there are 3 powerplays. Also no free hit concept was there.

True.

5. Technology - No DRS in 90s. I clearly remember how many times Sachin has been given out when he was actually not. Remember shoulder before the wicket and one Mr. Bucknor.

but DRS can also work against a batsmen. How many times have we seen batsmen surviving and scoring big after umpiring errors. Now with DRS it can be reversed in favour of bowlers.
And that Sachin's dismissal, the umpire was Daryl Harper and not Bucknor and he was right. Although the mode of dismissal is called LBW, it's actually Body Before Wicket- need not be always just the leg.

6. Because of competitions like IPL happening now in almost every cricket playing nation, almost all international players know the other players fairly well. They know each other's game very well. No mystery deliveries or mystery bowlers anymore.

it applies the other way round too. Bowlers have figured out batsmen too and hence batting is also not easy.

In a nutshell batting has become so easy nowadays that almost all top 5 players of every nation have batting averages in 45+ range.

I would say improved instead of easy?

These days players play so many more matches with less breaks and keeping fitness levels up is tough. Previous generation players played one format less and lot of rest time in between.

Kohlis 100 runs are like 100 Rs in the year 2018 and Sachins 100 runs are like 100 Rs in 1995. Who's value is more ? Even the petrol was 35 rs back then.

Gavaskar's 100 was like 100 Rs in 70s and 80s
He was equal to these two in his era.

And the last thing is, Sachin was not just great on the field, but he was far far greater off the field. It's this unique combination which made him the God of cricket. A true Bharat ratna.

not relevant, but what bad has Kohli done off the field? Infact how Kohli dealt the matter when trolls went against Anushka was so Gentlemanly. The way he paid respect to Phil Hughes is another example. Kohli does swear a lot...but that is quite normal for the city he hails from.

Another point is both were bad captains IMO, but Kohli has an amazing capability in making sure that it doesn't affect his batting.


So I feel Kohli and Sachin are equal, none better than the other. Both had their own set of challenges and their own share of advantages. Both have emerged higher than all other cricketers of their era.

Just to make it clear, I'm a fan of both Sachin and Kohli but I thonk both were equally great for thier times.

[Chetan_Rao]

Different eras, different standards, different equipment, different socio-economics, different everything.

Best enjoyed in contemporary context and not compared across generations.

[msdivy]

Just to make it clear, I am not a fan of either Sachin or Kohli. I was speaking from the perspective of effectiveness and contribution to the team, as seen on the cricketing field.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Gavaskar's 100 was like 100 Rs in 70s and 80s .

Bradman's 100 was like 100 in 30s and he scored in triple 100s

[harry10]

Comparing players across generations never makes sense. Best to enjoy what you get in the present. And currently Kohli is the best batsman in all formats for me because of his adaptability and scoring runs anywhere anytime. He is a medicore captain though and will be interesting to see what becomes when Dhoni retires from ODI's as he micro manages team a lot even now.

[prateekm]

This is what Kohli about comparisons with Sachin, and I agree with him. Skip to 3:44.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHmyeIJ8qcM?start=225

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by prateekm

This is what Kohli about comparisons with Sachin, and I agree with him. Skip to 3:44.

Oh c'mon, modesty is a virtue valued in our society. He can't say, based on my performance so far I am better than Sachin . If he says so, he will be chastised by one and all the very moment onwards.

[vinit]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Agreed that there sre so many differences but you've listed only from one perspective IMHO.

While I completely agree that the bowling of those days were wonderful, I won't attribute everything to the bowlers. Good bowlers these days have so much more in their armoury. But if they are still going for runs, don't you think part of the reason is batsmen like Kohli have improved their skill and ability to deal and score off them.

Bowlers have become toothless lions these days. They cant bowl bouncers. They cant bowl leg stump attacking line. Pitches are so flat that they cant even bowl good length. That's why, nowadays all batting records are getting broken. Haven't heard of any bowling record got broken. I wont be surprised if tomorrow teams play 11 batsmen and bowling will be done bowling machines.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

True.

but DRS can also work against a batsmen. How many times have we seen batsmen surviving and scoring big after umpiring errors. Now with DRS it can be reversed in favour of bowlers.

Batsman only gets one chance and there if he is given out wrongly, then the next chance is directly in the next match or series. For some unlucky batsmen, the next chance doesn't even come at all. This exactly used to happen in 90s.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

And that Sachin's dismissal, the umpire was Daryl Harper and not Bucknor and he was right. Although the mode of dismissal is called LBW, it's actually Body Before Wicket- need not be always just the leg.

The umpire was Harper in Australia who gave Sachin out as LBW or SBW or BBW I am referring to Bucknor in the reference to many such decisions in Tests / ODIs where Sachin was given out wrongly. There were even articles published in many newspapers that time about Bucknor's decisions against Sachin.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

it applies the other way round too. Bowlers have figured out batsmen too and hence batting is also not easy.

Had batting been difficult these days, then we would not have seen 300+ scores as a standard across the world. They are even getting chased down also very easily. Just compare, in the last 5 years, how many times teams have scored 300+ and how many times teams have been bowled out under 50 overs in a ODI match.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Gavaskar's 100 was like 100 Rs in 70s and 80s He was equal to these two in his era.

Absolutely agreed.

My whole point is, I rate Sachin much higher in the context of current batsmen because Sachin did not just bat. He batted several "battles" against Mcgrath, Warne, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock, Waqar, Wasim, Saqlain, Murali, Shoaib etc. Watching those battles was super exciting at that time and they have really become fairy-tales. Those battles between bat and ball is real cricket. Our batting vs Your batting is a different sports altogether. Unfortunately, we dont see such battles nowadays. Only one battle comes to my mind is Virat against James Anderson. Cricket, as a a game, is highly tilted in favor of batsmen nowadays.

[Eddy]

MSD dropped!
Talent a part of the test team!!