[PPS]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Ishant's figures 8 overs 63 runs 1 wicket
Out of those 63, 30 in one over so before that it was 7-1-33-1. Perfectly acceptable for a one dayer. He was doing quite good till then.

Agreed, those were acceptable figures before that over. But the problem is he's supposed to be our strike bowler, the spearhead of our bowling attack & we should not be satisfied with only acceptable figures! Just look at Johnson in the Australian attack.
Umesh Yadav is nowhere to be seen, do not know where he disappeared, he also lacks direction sometimes. Currently apart from Unadkat & Mishra we do not have much of a choice! Dhoni isn't very comfortable playing 2 frontline spinners anyway.

Also completely agree with what Gavaskar has said below.
http://sports.ndtv.com/india-vs-aust...d-cup-gavaskar

Mahendra Singh Dhoni's Team India should first save series vs Australia, forget 2015 World Cup: Gavaskar

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by carboy

Forget one day matches. Ishant is easily the worst bowler in the history of test cricket anywhere in the world. Find me a bowler who has played 50 tests with worse figures than him. Forget 50, find me a bowler who has played 30 tests with worse figures than Ishant.

The only explanation I can think of is that Ishant has some compromising photos of Dhoni or Fletcher or Srinivasan or all three of them.

Mohammad Sami says Hi.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...yer/41324.html

[carboy]

Originally Posted by AbhishekB86

A read up his cric info page will also reveal his last 10 performances. Pathetic to say the least. Also the fact that the only bowler with a worse record than him in Tests is Elton Chigumbara from Zimbabwe who by the way bats pretty decently.

Chigumbara has played only 11 matches. I don't think he will be continuously picked by the Zimbabwe team if he bowls like Ishant for 30 tests, forget 50 tests.

Ishant will not get into a single test team in the world today. For that matter I don't think Ishant would have played 50 tests for any test team in the history of cricket, not even the Indian team of the 70s when Gavaskar opened the bowling once or twice. At that time we had bowlers like Karsan Ghavri, Roger Binny etc who were much better than Ishant.

Madan Lal was as bad as Ishant but he never played 50 tests and he was a far better batsman who averaged 22 with the bat.

I will pick Darren Sammy as a pure bowler every time over Ishant Sharma - Compare test stats of Sammy and Ishant.

Originally Posted by Oxy

Mohammad Sami says Hi.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...yer/41324.html

My bad. But Sami used to keep getting dropped. Ishant doesn't even get dropped. I cannot think any explanation other than him having compromising material on Dhoni, Fletcher and Srinivasan.

[Eddy]

No change in the ODI squad for the next four matches.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-...ry/680829.html

Now, the best we can hope for is that Ishant does not feature in the playing eleven.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by Eddy

No change in the ODI squad for the next four matches.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-...ry/680829.html

Now, the best we can hope for is that Ishant does not feature in the playing eleven.

Not going to happen unfortunately.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...ed-ishant.html

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by PPS

Agreed, those were acceptable figures before that over. But the problem is he's supposed to be our strike bowler, the spearhead of our bowling attack & we should not be satisfied with only acceptable figures! Just look at Johnson in the Australian attack.
Umesh Yadav is nowhere to be seen, do not know where he disappeared, he also lacks direction sometimes. Currently apart from Unadkat & Mishra we do not have much of a choice! Dhoni isn't very comfortable playing 2 frontline spinners anyway.

I guess I am giving an impression that I am trying to defend Ishant but I am trying to think think from a bowlers perspective. One day cricket has become a batsmen game completely and it's tough life for bowlers. Theres hardly any strike bowler in world cricket! Where are the wasims, ambroses, mcgraths, vaas, donalds, waqars, of the game? How many truly great bowlers can you really name? Even Pakistan that was fast bowlers factory does not have a single great bowler now that can be counted in that prime list. Less said about windies and Australia itself the better. Ian chapel has written a wonderful article on the demise of fast bowler in the game of cricket on cricinfo.

And really why can't Faulkner score 6s? Is there a rule like that? Didnt Agarkar once score fastest 50? That was a guy who'd score zeros for fun! Faulkner had nothing to lose and all to gain when he started throwing his bat and it was just his day everything connected. I bet he can't repeat this innings if he tried again.

Also completely agree with what Gavaskar has said below.
http://sports.ndtv.com/india-vs-aust...d-cup-gavaskar

Personally I think very little of gavaskar's analytical abilities and he mostly writes/speaks trash! He is a chameleon who is as consistent in his inconsistent views as is Ishant with his bowling. What does he mean by save series really? Its not like it's 3-0 right now and we could lose series next game.

[AbhishekB86]

Originally Posted by joslicx

I guess I am giving an impression that I am trying to defend Ishant but I am trying to think think from a bowlers perspective. One day cricket has become a batsmen game completely and it's tough life for bowlers. Theres hardly any strike bowler in world cricket!
And really why can't Faulkner score 6s? Is there a rule like that? Didnt Agarkar once score fastest 50? That was a guy who'd score zeros for fun! Faulkner had nothing to lose and all to gain when he started throwing his bat and it was just his day everything connected. I bet he can't repeat this innings if he tried again.




Personally I think very little of gavaskar's analytical

I agree with your views that we don't have fast legends in the game but there are the likes of Steyn, Anderson and co. When it comes to Australia they aren't playing their prime bowlers anyway. If you followed the Ashes Peter Siddle, Ryan Harris, Starc along side Pattinson and Johnson are their strike bowlers.

The problem is more severe with Ishant in Tests than it is in ODI's. He is ineffective and on abroad pitches unlucky. The problem is being unlucky for a period of 5 years is a little too much to digest. He has never worked on improving and if only he's lost on pace over a period of time. He has no variation and goes for plenty in every match. He has been so ineffective I don't think Indian fans expect him to bowl well. Having the exposure of playing in t-20 leagues and having the best of minds serving him including Wasim Akram why is he not getting any better? Because he's been assured a spot. Kick him out and you'll see him working on his bowling like our ousted seniors are doing.

Secondly Gavaskar, Shastri and the likes make cricket commentary so boring and annoying. It's as if they read out from scripts, specially Shastri, who has been using the same terms since I was a kid.

It is a joy to listen to Bumble, Michael Holding, David Gower. I would watch even the most boring sessions because of the pure views of the legends mentioned above.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by joslicx

I guess I am giving an impression that I am trying to defend Ishant but I am trying to think think from a bowlers perspective.

Well even Dhoni is defending Ishant & shrugging it off as 2 bad games!

Originally Posted by AbhishekB86

I agree with your views that we don't have fast legends in the game but there are the likes of Steyn, Anderson and co.

There's also Steve Finn & Mitchell Johnson in this series who easily touches 150km/hr & bowls in good areas!

Talking of Anderson, once upon a time he was struggling & he took tips from our very own Zaheer that apparently resurrected his career!

[AbhishekB86]

Originally Posted by PPS

Well even Dhoni is defending Ishant & shrugging it off as 2 bad games!


There's also Steve Finn & Mitchell Johnson in this series who easily touches 150km/hr & bowls in good areas!

Talking of Anderson, once upon a time he was struggling & he took tips from our very own Zaheer that apparently resurrected his career!

Very true except one bit Finn plays for England

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by AbhishekB86

I agree with your views that we don't have fast legends in the game but there are the likes of Steyn, Anderson and co. When it comes to Australia they aren't playing their prime bowlers anyway. If you followed the Ashes Peter Siddle, Ryan Harris, Starc along side Pattinson and Johnson are their strike bowlers.

The problem is more severe with Ishant in Tests than it is in ODI's. He is ineffective and on abroad pitches unlucky. The problem is being unlucky for a period of 5 years is a little too much to digest. He has never worked on improving and if only he's lost on pace over a period of time. He has no variation and goes for plenty in every match. He has been so ineffective I don't think Indian fans expect him to bowl well. Having the exposure of playing in t-20 leagues and having the best of minds serving him including Wasim Akram why is he not getting any better? Because he's been assured a spot. Kick him out and you'll see him working on his bowling like our ousted seniors are doing.

Well I have followed cricket for more than 20 years and bowling has always been an endemic problem for India. We never had any great fast bowlers that were dependable (and could be counted in all time greats) It does not matter what the name is. Today it is Ishant, tomorrow it is some other. But they are all equally bad! I dont think Dhoni is a fool or playing favorites here. He simply has no choice! I have seen so many bowlers come and go in last few years - the likes of Munaf, Umesh, Aaron, PK etc. All young guys are interested in right now is to come to team and then get fat IPL checks! I think there is hardly any incentive in working hard in international cricket (In fact the disincentive is possible injury breakdown that can mean loss of IPL income). So why should a fast bowler work hard? Added insult for them is the unfavorable rules that are making mockery of bowling. Post T20 its not remained a fair contest really. For bowlers now the mantra is containment, not wicket taking. Wickets come because batsmen are taking more chances (to hoist those sixes that crowds love). Perfectly good balls get clobbered for 6 these days! WHat can bowlers really do? I have seen perfect yorkers being hit for sixes! Its those heavy bats. Anything that connects can travel long.

If you are a young cricketer then in today's scenario it makes sense to learn to throw your bat around rahter than work hard at fast bowling! In future we will see lot of mediocre all rounders. The era of great fast bowlers is over!

Secondly Gavaskar, Shastri and the likes make cricket commentary so boring and annoying. It's as if they read out from scripts, specially Shastri, who has been using the same terms since I was a kid.

It is a joy to listen to Bumble, Michael Holding, David Gower. I would watch even the most boring sessions because of the pure views of the legends mentioned above.

Yep there are few knowledgeable guys out there like Holding, Gower, Benaud, Chappel, Boycott etc that are a joy to listen to. Right now amongst the Indian crowd its only Ganguly who is somewhat good.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Well I have followed cricket for more than 20 years and bowling has always been an endemic problem for India. We never had any great fast bowlers that were dependable (and could be counted in all time greats) It does not matter what the name is. Today it is Ishant, tomorrow it is some other. But they are all equally bad!

I have been following cricket for 25+ years & I agree with part of what you said. We have never had very good fast bowlers in our history. At best we have had good fast bowlers (Kapil, Srinath & Zaheer).

But that said, nobody who as bad as Ishant has played as many tests as Ishant. Madan Lal comes closest with 39 tests but he was a decent batsman.

BTW, I don't even think we have had all time great spinners though we have had very good spinners.

[selfdrive]

If we have such pathetic medium pace bowlers, why are we playing three of them together?

Wouldn't it be better to play the best 4 bowlers that you have? Ok, Jadeja would be in because he bowled well and is supposed to throw his bat around a bit. Bhuvneshwar is actually the best of the medium pace lot, he gets wickets and stems the run flow.
Why not look at Pragyan Ojha? I dont think he would end up being as ineffective as Ishant Sharma.
At this rate, even Agarkar at this retired stage (a fantastic bowler in the first half of his career) and Irfan Pathan seem to be better options.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

At this rate, even Agarkar at this retired stage (a fantastic bowler in the first half of his career) and Irfan Pathan seem to be better options.

Is Yadav still injured? What about Zaheer - he looked very fit recently.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by carboy

Is Yadav still injured? What about Zaheer - he looked very fit recently.

No idea about Yadav. Is that Varun Aaron guy also still injured?

Ishwar Pandey, Rahul Shukla, Pawan Suyal... there are plenty of options. Why can't the selectors open their eyes and look at what we have?

We are scheduled to play a five match test series in England in June 2014. We really need to do well there considering we had that 4-0 embarassment over there in 2011 and also got hammered 2-1 by them in our home conditions too in 2012. At this stage, the situation looks pretty hopeless.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by AbhishekB86

Very true except one bit Finn plays for England

Yes, I know that. Was talking in general of good fast bowlers all around the world.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

If we have such pathetic medium pace bowlers, why are we playing three of them together?Wouldn't it be better to play the best 4 bowlers that you have?

Those chaps in the squad are our best bowlers currently. Sad but true! Zaheer,Yadav,etc are not match fit yet.

Originally Posted by Oxy

No idea about Yadav. Is that Varun Aaron guy also still injured?

Last i read in newspapers, Aaron had recovered from surgery.

We are scheduled to play a five match test series in England in June 2014. We really need to do well there considering we had that 4-0 embarassment over there in 2011 and also got hammered 2-1 by them in our home conditions too in 2012. At this stage, the situation looks pretty hopeless.

To win test matches, you need bowlers to take wickets! That England series is far away, its going to be another embarassment for us!