[srishiva]

Monty bowls flat out spinners not really looping or flighting much. The Indian batsmen looked at odds against him.

So much of the media which talked about pitch backfiring will be so glad to see India lose.

[Rufus_M]

England thrash India!! Series is 1-1 now. Makes this series even more exciting although I would've liked India winning 4-0.

The way England batted makes me feel as if they batted on a completely different pitch :-P. This defeat is in a way good for India. Time to take some tough decisions & leave the non-performers out of the squad.

[Prodigyy]

Ahh disaster has finally struck Team India in India this time. All the talk of spinning pitch seems to have missed the Indian batsmen. Yuvraj is always a goner on spinning pitches, Kohli has inexplicably lost his midas touch and God, what about him, well the only thing a mere mortal like me can say about masterclass is that there is no shame in accepting that you have aged, and aged with grace.

Seriously, i dont think anyone in India has the guts to tell this to SRT, for the good of Indian cricket, SRT must take this tough step and retire with the same grace for which he was known in his hay days !!

And boy oh boy, what do we do about our spinners now ?? When these spinners cant take wickets in India, then what do we expect out of them while abroad.

GOD save India the blushes in this series now !!

[srishiva]

SA draw with Australia. Great that they could play 148 overs total and 90 overs on final day being 4/77. True No.1s.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Prodigyy

Kohli has inexplicably lost his midas touch and God, what about him,

Not really. Kohli is still the king of ODIs. Its only in Tests & T20s he has been average.

Since Duncan Fletcher took over in May 2011, Indian cricket team has suddenly lost its batting capabilities.
In tests, the team which included Dravid & Laxman lost 8-0 overseas. Only Pujara's resistance reversed the trend in 1st test against England. When he failed in 2nd innings of 2nd test, batting capitulated.
In ODIs, if Kohli's contribution is taken away, there is not much from others.
In T20s, again the batting has not done well in international matches.
Indian batters are playing badly. They appear exhausted.

The Indian coach has limited powers. He doesn't have any say in team selection nor in on-field decisions. But still the team which did well when Gary Kirsten was coach is lost under Fletcher.

Originally Posted by Eddy

- Sachin is finished

Not yet. Sachin still decides when to finish

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by msdivy

Not yet. Sachin still decides when to finish

Of course he should decide when to retire. Its upto the selectors to decide and for us to see whether they have the guts to.......

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Its upto the selectors to decide and for us to see whether they have the guts to.......

Amarnath was sacked as selector in 2 months ago, because he wanted to take action for 8-0 overseas drubbing. When employer is not interested, selectors can do little.

PS: If you check my posts I advocated Sachin to retire after 100 100s. That was a high. Next high is when he scores 50 100s in ODIs. There is no landmark in till then.

[vinu_h]

Dhoni wants the same kind of pitch for the next Test match. Are the hosts allowed to demand for a particular kind of pitch ? Like a dead ball, I would declare such fixed test matches as 'dead match' if I was ICC.

Dhoni had asked for a turning track despite India winning the first Test by nine wickets on a low and slow pitch at Ahmedabad's Motera stadium to go 1-0 up in the series. Though his demand was met by the Wankhede curator, the hosts slumped to a huge defeat, unable to cope up with the left-arm spin of Monty Panesar and off spinner Graeme Swann.

Link

[motortechie]

Originally Posted by msdivy

PS: If you check my posts I advocated Sachin to retire after 100 100s. That was a high. Next high is when he scores 50 100s in ODIs. There is no landmark in till then.

There are following landmarks apart from one you have mentioned

1. First player to play in 7 world cups
2. First player to play in 200 test matches


I just hope sandip patil shows the sames guts he had a player in his selection process.I would hope thaat SRT at least bats at No.5 or No.6 so that virat kohli can be groomed for the no.4 position

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by msdivy

Not really. Kohli is still the king of ODIs. Its only in Tests & T20s he has been average.

Originally Posted by motortechie

I would hope thaat SRT at least bats at No.5 or No.6 so that virat kohli can be groomed for the no.4 position

Kohli is ok in ODIs and so are Dhoni & Yuvraj. However, we need to find better test batsmen than these.
It might be an idea to try out Rohit Sharma in tests. Yes, he has flopped continuously in the shorter formats but so has Sehwag. Some batsmen are better in the longer format and thsi may apply to him too. We wont find out till this is tried out.

It is high time that we look at a change in duties at the leadership for the Test side. Graeme Smith, Michael Clarke, Ross Taylor and Alastair Cook are all showing the way with their awesome performances. I dont see Dhoni having the same impact on a test side. Will he come out at No.5 and take charge of the innings in a Test match on a challenging pitch?

Edit: the problem with India over the last couple of years has not been the losses but the lack of fight. Look at SA, they are the true No. 1s. It is really enjoyable to watch them play. Watching India in any cricket these days is just depressing.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by msdivy

Amarnath was sacked as selector in 2 months ago, because he wanted to take action for 8-0 overseas drubbing. When employer is not interested, selectors can do little.

PS: If you check my posts I advocated Sachin to retire after 100 100s. That was a high. Next high is when he scores 50 100s in ODIs. There is no landmark in till then.

This drubbing has proved that there is more to the non-performance than only the pitches we faced in Aus & Eng.

See, retirement is a function of a players motivation, current capability & fitness. Nobody can judge that better than Sachin for himself. So its ok that he does not retire.
However, if the selectors feel otherwise then they should act accordingly. From BCCI's perspective, Sachin still brings in the monies so they will continue to support him.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Will he come out at No.5 and take charge of the innings in a Test match on a challenging pitch?

Highly improbable. Dhoni doesnt have the temperament or technique to handle a challenging pitch. Not that I expect a wicketkeeper comming in at 5 to score a century where more accomplished batsmen have faltered. But it is also worth noting that he is not a very good wicket keeper too on challenging tracks.

Is his captaincy inspiring enough on the field? Unfortunately over the years I have felt when the going gets tough, Dhoni runs out of ideas. May be because he has a mediocre team at his disposal too. But after the second test, Dhoni told the press that Indian bowlers erred in not giving the ball enough pace and not pitching it further up. Its one thing the comentators saying such things and one thing the captain saying so. If he was aware, why did nt the Indian bowlers adapt? The Wicket keeper is a very essential cog since he is in a position to tell and make the bowlers understand where they are erring in Line and Length. Time and again I have felt Dhoni lacking on that front.

India are in a very precarious position. I hope the second test was a one off otherwise it would mean, India as a team can play only on batting paradises. The moment the pitch gets a little supportive to the bowlers, they falter.

Just see the difference in ease at which both the teams were batting. Quite similar to what we saw in England. All Indians struggling where as England making hay. England seem to have reached a similar set up here after the second test. It was OK in England where we had an excuse to say we are not used to such conditions although previous INdian teams have played much better than that in those very conditions before. However what excuse do we have here where in our own backyard they wihipped our backsides at our own game?

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by vibbs

However what excuse do we have here where in our own backyard they wihipped our backsides at our own game?

Totally agree with you. But look at the bright side, we cannot lose 4-0 now

I said this in my previous post, losing can be acceptable as long as there is some fight/ competitiveness shown by the players. There is nothing of that sort here. We just roll up and say we didnt play well or somebody else played well.
It is frustrating to see India lose like this when every other team is competitive enough. well, dont count Bangladesh & Zimbabwe

[rahul_9327]

In the last decade and a half of Indian Test cricket, 2 men made all the difference. One does not need stats from Cricinfo to prove that.
An innings when the team is in crisis, an innings to save a game, an innings that won a game, an innings that made a difference. Be it in England, Australia, West Indies, Pakistan, South Africa. Just 2 names come to mind instantly - Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman.

But people in India were busy worshiping Sachin. Why because he has more hundreds and runs. He is the God of cricket. Yes he has hundreds all over the world. But did that make a difference to the result ? No. 23 years of test cricket. 51 hundreds. But people talk of Rahul and Laxman and Sehwag(subcontinent) when it comes to 'The Innings' that made the difference.

There is a lot of media scrutiny going around that he hasn't scored a 100 since 2 years, the last being in South africa. But well, that last 100 was made when India lost the test match by an innings. He was busy trying to stay not out exposing no 11 to the likes of Steyn and co. Yet that 100 was celebrated overlooking the drubbing.

Well, people who call him God have to be really ignorant to World Cricket. Call him God if he has achieved something that no one else can. Makes sense to call Bradman God, simply because no one can ever match those stats. Heck for that matter call even Murali(the chucker) a god for i really doubt if anyone will ever go past his tally of 800 wickets.
Calling Sachin God is just insane. If Sachin retires today, Kallis will walk past his test records be it runs or centuries. Add to that, Kallis will have around 300 wickets. So what sets him apart to still call him God ?

To say Sachin is special because he was carrying the burden of the nation is illogical. So what were Rahul, Ganguly and Laxman doing in the team since 96 ? Eating groundnuts ?

Thanks to Sachin's runs many of Indian losses went unnoticed. Ours became a nation where a 50 or 100 from Sachin was more important than an Indian victory. A team sport was looked upon as if it were to be about Sachin and his records. Many equally good players who were more of team men(read Rahul and Laxman) never got their due.

I really dont want Sachin to retire now. Someone who always played for stats, he should continue. Because at the current rate he ll prove to the country that he is no God.

I would be surprised if he retired before Kallis does

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by rahul_9327

To say Sachin is special because he was carrying the burden of the nation is illogical. So what were Rahul, Ganguly and Laxman doing in the team since 96 ? Eating groundnuts ?

Are we on the Joke thread? Nice one Although I wouldn't agree 100% with you since I remember some good knocks from him, I agree he has not been of the same kind as Lara, VVS, Inzamam, Dravid, Waugh etc in Tests.