[rajvardhanraje]

I have been following this thread for a long time. There have been valuable advice from many BHPians. Some of the posts by senior members are very balanced and informative, all based on their real life experiences. On the other hand I also do see a lot of biased posts bashing the other side, some getting enraged at anything bad written about a the country they live in, dismissing it as hearsay. I am documenting my experiences on this thread, based on the 4 nations abroad that I lived in, later eventually settling back in India.

Each one of these experiences were vastly different from the others. While what I did would not be termed as ‘emigration’ in the literal sense, they were more of deputations abroad for long term projects. My work profile back is primarily Industrial Automation for the manufacturing and process industry.

1. Qatar: This was my first international onsite deputation more than a decade back, and I was located in Doha. This was in the early 2010s.
   
   • Demography: Based on the stats I read, 93% of the population were expats. The locals largely owned stakes in the businesses and were very affluent. Literally half of the population was Indian (most from Kerala), and the other large regional groups were Filipino, Nepalis, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, and Sri Lankans. Europeans and Americans were present, albeit in relatively less numbers.
     
   • Language: Hindi and Malayalam were dominant. Good Hindi is spoken by expats from the Indian subcontinent, so 90% of the times, there was no barrier for communication.
     
   • Work: Now the key point to note here, is that most of the expats staying here come primarily for the economic opportunities. We worked 5 days a week with Thursday/Friday acting as the weekend. Due to the nature of the project, work wasn’t hectic for my team. The company car would pick us up early morning at 7 and drop us back at 4”30 after which got time for ourselves. In terms of hierarchy in the organization, the top echelon always consisted of Europeans/Americans as CXOs and local Arabs as part of the management. The mid echelon largely consisted of Indians, and the lower echelon of workers consisted of people from the Indian subcontinent. Work culture was good enough for the white collar workers. No one typically hesitated to work beyond designated work hours, as there was nothing much to do post work. The only interactions we had with the local Arabs was during steerco meetings. I wouldn’t consider the work culture too different from India. Not much to complain on this front.
   • Income: Opportunities to earn here were immense. Get into the right role with the right skillset and earnings can be quite healthy. Considering the lack of taxation and not much to do in discretionary spending, one does end up saving a good amount of money.
     
   • Culture and life: Not much to say here. Everyone comes here to work and earn. There are very few who emigrate here with families. The locals are completely isolated from expats and live a different life. With lavish houses and landcruisers, they have their own way of life. For us, it was just work, food and rest. Not many avenues for entertainment, the most we could do is go to a mall and shop, eat, watch a movie. Indian food is available everywhere and quite cheap. I did not face any racist incidents during my tenure here, and would largely attribute it to the demographic distribution and low percentage of locals. Law and order was very stringent and crime rate is quite low.
     
   • Weather: Summers are absolutely brutal. From July to September, it is impossible to step outside even at night. At residences, even the kitchen is air conditioned and it needs to remain on 24 hours a day. It is common for people to keep their cars on with air conditioning on full blast for an hour or two if they have to attend say a meeting at client location. Winters are pleasant and get chilly sometimes in December.
     
   • Cars: This is the land of landcruisers. The locals being affluent, could be seen driving around in their LC200, GMC Yukon XL Denali, Nissan Patrol, etc. White collars would buy more of Camry, Accord, Altima. And blue collars travelled in Toyota Hilux and Nissan Navara. Completely Japanese dominated market.
     
   • Verdict: Unless one is constrained with lack of good economic opportunities in India, in my opinion I do not see much advantages emigrating here. Preferable for bachelors, not for families in my opinion.
   
   
2. New Zealand: This was my second international onsite deputation, and I was located in Hamilton. This was in the mid 2010s.
   • Demography: New Zealand is a multicultural society with a lot of Asians, predominantly Indians and Chinese. The native population consists of mainly whites and a less percentage of Maoris who are the actual natives.
     
   • Language: With English being the official language, communication was never an issue.
     
   • Work: This is the place where I first got to know of the term ‘work life balance’. It has a very relaxed and laid back culture. Opportunities are limited and my end client was a leading dairy. Work would typically start morning around 9 and end at 5. No one was expected to work beyond designated working hours, though occasionally we would do it. Timelines for projects were relaxed and realistic. Even work at the plant never felt hectic. There was no sense of hierarchy while working. Everyone including the blue collar workers were treated with respect. Coffee breaks would include everyone across the ladder interacting freely without any sense of entitlement. This is something I appreciate. The downside, there are very limited opportunities to grow. It was very common for people to stay at the same position for over a decade. Employees were largely content with their position and most were not the ‘ambitious’ type. It could get boring for those who look for rapid progressions.
     
   • Income: I will get straight to the point. Do not migrate here if earning money is the key aim. Being more on the socialist side, disparity in income is low. If a couple moves here and both work, life will be comfortable, but do not expect big savings. Cost of living is on the higher side. The income is decent enough though to eventually acquire a house, a car and education for kids.
     
   • Culture and life: As I mentioned above, the culture is very relaxed and laid back. Work is not the key motivator. People love to explore life outside of work. Trekking, hiking, travelling is the way of life. It is very common to see families driving their sedans and towing small trailers to a camping site. There is a considerably large Indian community here, and Indian festivals like Diwali are celebrated. Locals can be friendly enough to mix up, though most Indians living there do end up spending time more within the community, including me. Sports is a very big part of the culture. Rugby takes top spot, with cricket being secondary.
     
   • Weather: Being on the northern island, weather was pleasant. Summers did get warm, but nowhere close to the summers we face here. Winters were on the colder side but manageable, without snow. The country is full of greenery and pollution levels are low. In terms of nature, it is stunning. One can find everything from dense greenery, beaches, mountains, thermal lakes, etc. Road trips across the country were truly amazing.
     
   • Cars: Cars are expensive with fuel being costly and taxes on the higher side. Most end up buying used Japanese cars (both sedans and hatches). It is nowhere comparable to the US or gulf. Cars like the Toyota Yaris hatch dominate.
     
   • Verdict: Choose to emigrate here if you intend to have slow paced laid back life with nature, low pollution and good balance between work and family. Economic opportunities are few with low savings. Do not consider this with money as the key motivator.
   
   
3. Indonesia: This was my third international onsite deputation, and I was located in Lampung which is a mid sized city on the Sumatra island. Not much to write here as this was a short stint.
   
   • Demography: The city I was located in consists only of locals, and I was literally one of the handful foreigners here. The capital Jakarta, does have a few expats. There is a big demographic divide based on income, education and other local factors.
     
   • Language: This was a major issue at Lampung. While some could manage basic English, most were not conversant and only spoke the local or national language. By then google translate had come in, so I heavily relied on it for my interactions. The national language does have some Sanskrit words, so that helped a bit.
     
   • Work: Work culture is very much identical to what we have in India. Everything felt similar right from hierarchy, salaries, white and blue collar divide. The locals were hard working individuals and it was common to stretch beyond designated working hours.
     
   • Income: The local currency is valued quite low. Incomes compared to India are low, but spending was proportionally low as well.
     
   • Culture and life: The culture is a bit on the conservative side as compared to other south east asian countries. The youngsters seems to be a bit more liberal though in terms of lifestyle. The typical movie, restaurant, mall culture does exist. I did find a lot of similarities with India in terms of family values. Food was excellent and cheap. The variety and choice of fish is exceptional. This is something I truly enjoyed. The place I was in, is not a tourist destination so there wasn’t much to explore.
     
   • Weather: Completely tropical weather. Lots of greenery all around with same weather throughout the year. Felt like the typical coastal weather in India.
     
   • Cars: The market is completely dominated by the Japanese cars. Toyota leads the sales. Based on the economic strata, cars vary from hatchbacks, to sedans to MPVs. Road conditions are on the bad side, and its common to find potholes.
     
   • Verdict: This is not a place for Indians to emigrate. I just happened to be there due to my project.
   
   
4. Netherlands: This was my fourth international onsite deputation, and the longest. A lot to write here. I was located in a town called Veghel near Eindhoven. I was here in the late 2010s.
   
   • Demography: The town I was located in, is a province called Noord Brabant. It consists only of locals, and I could find few migrants here. Other larger cities like Amsterdam, Eindhoven are very multicultural though where people across the globe stayed, right from Asia, Americas, Africa and other European countries.
     
   • Language: Language will be a factor depending on where one stays in the Netherlands. A city like Amsterdam, English will work everywhere due to the demography and tourist influx. The town that I was in, it’s a small place not on the tourist map. So Dutch was the primary language followed here. In office, everyone across all ages spoke good English. Outside, it was a minor issue. One interesting thing I noted here, was that the younger population spoke fluent English, and the some of older population (above 50) spoke limited or no English. After some digging around, my local colleague mentioned that back in the days, German was taught in schools as the second language, but for the past couple of decades more people opted for English as the second language. As a result, the older ones spoke good German and the younger ones were not too conversant with German. Again, Dutch and German both being Germanic languages does play a role. I was the only Indian or foreigner in the office. While everyone typically interacted with, spoke English with me, I initially had to catch up a lot on the conversations amongst themselves being in Dutch. Starting learning Dutch and it helped later. In shops or restaurants in the city, the menu was in Dutch, but with google translate, it wasn’t much of an issue.
     
   • Work: This was the most balanced work culture I came across in all countries I worked in. While not as laid back as New Zealand, nowhere as aggressive as home. Literally everyone worked for 8 hours a day and none on weekends. By 7:30 am, the whole office would be full and empty by 4:30. One thing I observed is that the Dutch are quite particular about work. For the 8 hours they work, they won’t spend time on social media, or long coffee/smoke breaks. Heck, even they had lunch on the desk in front of the workstation. Once 8 hours are done, they would pack up and leave. Quite the contrast as compared to home, where we spend 10 hours in office and work for maybe 7 hours. Hierarchy would never be felt during interactions with the bosses. One big difference is that one can continue to be in a purely technical role throughout the career till retirement. And this is for service based companies, I can understand if its for product companies. Age is not a factor in designation. We had 50 and 60 year old engineer reporting to 35 year old project managers. And somehow the whole system worked without prejudice. On larger projects, the younger manager would actually consult the older engineers before committing anything to the client. Timelines and deadlines for work were very realistic. Managers would not overcommit to clients not pressurize subordinates to meet deadlines. As a result, work was not stressful at all. Working beyond designated hours is rare. It needs some special approvals for the employer and something they typically avoid. It was common for employees to go on month long vacations, being fully isolated from work, not responding to mails or attending calls. Employees also availed leaves for things like gardening or home stuff. This was something new for me. Work and family were typically isolated with less instances of colleagues meeting outside work.
     
   • Income: If earning money is the key aim, this won’t be the best option. Cost of living is high. Being socialist in nature, disparity in income is low. The income difference in white and blue collar workers is not huge. Even at the employer, the salary difference between say a 30 year old and a 50 year old engineer would not be too high. We even had younger managers earning lesser than older engineers. That being said, salaries are not comparable to the US. Savings are not high, but with a couple working, life will be comfortable enough to afford housing, car, education for kids. Career progression is slower than India and it is quite common for people to refuse promotions as the upside in income is not that much. The local population seems content with what they earn, couple with the government benefits like healthcare and retirement pensions. Choose to come here not for the balanced life, not money.
     
   • Culture and life: This was the most liberal country I lived in. As I mentioned above, work life balance comes above everything else. Culture also varies depending on the part of the country one lives in. Travelling is something that comes naturally to the Dutch. Road trips, family vacations is something that everyone indulges in. Indian diaspora is present in good numbers, so one can easily find Indian stores, restaurants. Festivals like Diwali are also celebrated at particular locations with Indian population. Local culture is very different as compared to Asia, especially in the family aspects. Marriage, kids work out in a different way, similar to other western countries. Mixing up with locals is something that most of us would find a bit difficult. So most end up creating their own friend circles amongst fellow Indians. The best part is the location and access/proximity to other European countries. This coupled with the Schengen visa, travelling is a breeze. One could drive or fly over a long weekend to explore some of the best tourist places in Europe. Even Netherlands has some excellent tourist locations. Amsterdam was a 1.5 hour drive, a place I would frequently visit on weekends.
     
   • Weather: Summers are a bit hot. Though the temperature goes up to 26 or 27 only, feels hotter. The good thing is that daylight is present for about 16 hours. So travelling is something done best in summer. Winters are very cold for the average Indian. It snows with dark gloomy days, and hardly 8 hours of sunlight. Feels quite depressing for us, being accustomed to sunshine all year long. Lots of greenery all around with fresh air and low pollution.
     
   • Cars: Before I come to cars, I want to talk about bicycles. Biking is the way of life here. Everyone across all ages could be seen biking, even 70 year olds. There are dedicated cycle tracks across the country which makes things easier. Every family has a dedicated bicycle per individual. I believe that’s certainly a factor in the Dutch being fit. Even CXOs can be seen biking to work, and changing into formals once in the office. Coming to cars now. The Germans dominate here. People prefer to buy station wagons or large hatches due the practicality. SUVs were less common when I was there, could have changed though due to the crossover domination globally. The Dutch still love their manuals and I could see everything from Mercs, BMWs and Audis with manual transmission. Back then, diesel was more common. As a first car, most ended up buying used ones. Car parking charges in the city are expensive.
     
   • Verdict: My advice, migrate here for the balanced life, clean air and tourism. If money is the motivator, this won’t be the right place.

My opinion on emigration: This is a very personal choice for an individual and would vary a lot from person to person. Each country has good and bad things. It all boils down to what one has as priorities, what matters more and what one can neglect. Every individual views things though their own lens and has his or her own perceptions and bias. Some paint foreign countries as utopia and India as dystopia, some vice-versa, which is not the case. Do what’s best for you. The life experiences I got from staying in different countries are valuable, not in terms of pure work but in terms of knowing how things and people are in different geographies.


Why I chose not to emigrate permanently: I had the opportunities to emigrate to Qatar, New Zealand and Netherlands, whose experiences I have documented. In my case, I was very clear that I wanted to experience life abroad but not settle. Did give it some second thoughts during my stint in Netherlands. It all ended up to the point of me being a part of the society there. While I did good in terms of work experiences, I could not assimilate as a part of the western society. Whether its in terms of culture, demographics, language, the feeling of an outsider always persisted. My friend circle was restricted to the Indian populace there. Missing out on festivals, family get togethers felt bad. Most of my immediate family being in India made a big difference here. Talking about racism, while I did not face any outright incidents, the feeling of being an outsider always persisted. Interacting with locals (some, not all), I could feel a sense of superiority in them, and that coupled with the occasional comments on our culture/country, the facial expressions conveyed the message. On the other hand, my colleague emigrated permanently as for him he was able to assimilate as a part of the local culture, and the subtle racism was something he could neglect. I rather decided to come back and am very content with my decision.

[CornerCarver]

Very well presented with all the necessary facts. I vouch for what is mentioned for Qatar. This goes well for the whole Middle East region too.
As for emigration, Qatar and other middle eastern nations don't count in, including Dubai.

We cannot emigrate to these lands.

Yes, we can work and live with families, get the kids educated in Indian schools and go on paid annual vacations but that's about that.
Hardly any one gets a permanent residency in here and one fine day, either by choice or compulsion, we have to leave these places.
With the local populace being preferred especially for the mid level managerial jobs, staying here on long term is a distant dream.
Gone are the days when expats from India would live for 30 to 40 years in Middle East.
To emigrate, currently Canada is the easiest option, initial struggles notwithstanding.
Also, Emigrating to European nations, AUS/NZ, North America is viable on a long term basis with a view to get a PR/ Passport and securing a future for kids.