[Engine_Roars]

Originally Posted by poloman

4 Indian/Indian origin students have lost life in last two weeks in USA. Any one is of knowledge what is happening here? Is this random or something lurking underneath? I think all of them except the one who was murdered were teenagers and were not able to cope up with the pressure and uncertainties of life in a new country.

Sending children for undergraduate courses in other countries is a huge risk since they are too young for this, I believe.

Om Shanti.

I don't mean to blame or offend anyone, I am just trying to share my experience here. Moving away from family to a distant country is not everyone's cup of tea. When I started my career I was also driven by the dreams of working & visiting some foreign, beautiful countries. I was fortunate enough to have gotten a chance to travel & spend some time for one such short term opportunity in Australia.

Those 3 months spent there alone, made me realize I was not cut out for this. It felt lonely, I could never spend the money the way I could spend here in India because there was always a pressure of INR to AUD conversion & the related savings. I struggled to have my daily quota of food since I am a vegetarian. I had to cook, clean & then work & repeat this all days/weeks.

Don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful country, quality of living was way better then what we are used to here in India. Clean air, No pollution, no crowds etc, huge parks, awesome cars. If given a chance, I will still travel but I don't think it will be more than a couple of weeks or a month or two. I just can't.

These kids are under tremendous pressure to succeed in a new country under challenging conditions. Some of these do not come from very rich backgrounds, they hardly have any backup plans. I just hope parents & kids start realizing the fact that shifting to a new country is not the only way to be successful.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by poloman

4 Indian/Indian origin students have lost life in last two weeks in USA. Any one is of knowledge what is happening here? Is this random or something lurking underneath?

These incidents happen with some regularity in US. In May last year a Gunman opened fire at a Dallas Mall, there were multiple casualties. My school friend who's settled there since more than a decade happened to be inside that very Mall. He heard the gunshots and ran inside the store room and managed to survive! He specifically told us not to inform anyone especially his family members.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by poloman

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Sending children for undergraduate courses in other countries is a huge risk since they are too young for this, I believe.

An undergraduate would be an adult and they can do as they please of course. It is their decision, nor the parents. You can advise and support them in making up their minds.

I believe it is hugely important for young adults to develop and experience the world at large. Two of our kids spend several years abroad, trekking around the world, studying and working in a number of different countries across several continents. Of course, as a parent you worry. But my wife and I were equally confident in the ability of our kids not to get themselves into too big problems. Only had to get my two sons out of the copshop a couple of times.

Our daughter had a medical emergency whilst doing relief aid work in Africa. Luckily the organisation she volunteered with handled it very well. I was already trying to book a flight to go and get her, when they contacted us, telling us not to worry, they would repatriate her.

My wife who grew up in Barbados, an absolutely tiny island in the West Indies, left for the UK on her own to study in England and Scotland from the age of 18. No FaceTime, chat or emails in those days. We are talking mid 70s.

I left for a my first trip in the merchant navy, as an apprentice engineer, when I was 19.

Of course, it does make some difference where you grew up and to what you have been exposed. But most kids when they enter young adulthood, are pretty smart and will do fine. Everybodynis entitled to make their own stupid mistakes and learn. As the saying goes, what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger!

I am a strong believer in taking any opportunity to travel, see, work as much of the world as you possibly can. I believe it makes you a better, more balanced, open minded person. The earlier you start the better!

Jeroen

[poloman]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

An undergraduate would be an adult and they can do as they please of course. It is their decision, nor the parents. You can advise and support them in making up their minds.

Unfortunately Indian teenagers have not reached that stage I believe. The reasons of these deaths are not yet known. We can only speculate

But most of these kids are not conditioned to be strong and cocooned for cozy life around parents and extended families. I know many kids who are by birth US citizens, go there for undergraduate studies at 18. They are under lot of pressure and with every available opportunity they rush back to be with the parents.

We may be the only country in the world where promising youngsters take their life due to exam pressure?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by poloman

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We may be the only country in the world where promising youngsters take their life due to exam pressure?

Unfortunately that is not the case. China is worse I believe. Finland and Korea are pretty bad too. But in just about any country there will be cases where young folks kill themselves due to exam pressure.

Personally, I don’t think it is the exam as such. It is their environment that piles on the pressure e.g. parents, family, friends, society at large. Research shows that in many cases parents are, by far, the most influential factor.

To some extent it is understandable, parents want their kids to succeed and do better than they did. In quite a number of societies studying, getting the best possible degree is a way up in the social ladder and financial succes. In societies where parents rely on their kids to support them in old age, this is likely to be amplified.

Never the less, these suicides do show a very dark side of this approach.

I don’t think you can see these sort of suicides separate from cultural aspects. The most important aspect of parenting, my opinion is ensuring your kids can be independent and live a happy life without you. That doesn’t necessarily mean getting the best/ highest degree possible.

Losing a child through suicide most be one of the most awful things that can happen to any parent. I imagine no matter what the circumstances, it will always be devastating. My youngest sister, Annemarie, took her own life, whilst studying at the age of 20. She had multiple mental issues. Even so. Few saw it coming. It left my parents absolutely devastated. I was away from home, in the merchant navy. I did not hear about it after the funeral. My company did repatriate me at the first available instance. There is absolutely nothing you can do. Everybody blames themselves. Rightly or wrongly.

Even so, I still think you need to encourage your kids to see as much of the world as they possibly can. Raising kids is about protecting them from mishaps, but also allowing them to experience and explore the world at large by themselves. You never ever will get any real world experience staying under the wings of your parents. Not at 18 years of age, or at 30.

Jeroen

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by poloman

Unfortunately Indian teenagers have not reached that stage I believe. The reasons of these deaths are not yet known. We can only speculate

Have to disagree with you, my friend. I'm one of the folks who went to the West for studies though for Master's (yes, I understand you are talking about Bachelor's students). However, I know plenty of Indian teens doing bachelors in Europe and I wouldn't say their lives are more difficult than those in India. If anything, I would say that they have it easier thanks to the crushing competition in India. I don't know if you've been to university campuses in the West but they actually do a very good job making students feel welcome. I'd say it's not any more difficult than a Tamilian studying in Delhi, which was the case for me during my Bachelor's - I had more annoying (admittedly light-hearted mostly) comments about my identity (this is despite speaking fluent Hindi) than I faced in the West.

Unfortunately, we still treat 18+ teens like kids, we won't make responsible citizens ever unless we change that.

Also, 4 deaths out of hundreds of thousands of Indian students studying in the US (and much more across the world) is not a statistically significant number to come to any conclusion.

[Mystic]

Originally Posted by poloman

4 Indian/Indian origin students have lost life in last two weeks in USA. Any one is of knowledge what is happening here? Is this random or something lurking underneath? I think all of them except the one who was murdered were teenagers and were not able to cope up with the pressure and uncertainties of life in a new country.

Sending children for undergraduate courses in other countries is a huge risk since they are too young for this, I believe.

I think I am qualified to answer your question as I had sent my only child and teen age son to USA for UG in one of top 5 colleges and fortunately he not only completed UG but also PhD within 5 years of his F1 visa in niche CS-AI area. He is now a faculty mentoring a bunch of PhDs in another top 5 college.

I was brought up in a joint family system in a house in south India (dozens of people living in the house) with more than a dozen bed rooms but only one common kitchen and one wallet. This important exposure of life lessons of living with others is not there for my child. He initially faced an uphill task and was sent almost to the breaking point due to peer pressure and the stress of research in a highly competitive and niche area of Artificial Intelligence ( exposure to one of the highest cases of suicides in his college in USA at very close quarters including some of the victims being his room mates) but by God’s grace, the end result is good in his case. Not everyone is so fortunate.

Pls go through the following article as it addresses a lot of important questions like mental health which is considered as taboo in India. I feel very sad by looking into frequent news of kids ending life by suicide in institutions guiding them to IIT JEE in Kota and other places in India due to extreme cases of peer pressure.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705700/

[twin-turbo]

I would like to chip in as a student going for undergrad at one of the universities the incidents happened in. There are plenty of youngsters in the university and they come from all over the world, and they can handle themselves pretty well. It is the "college life " that ultimately gets them . But that would be the case anywhere in the world , Including India.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I am a strong believer in taking any opportunity to travel, see, work as much of the world as you possibly can. I believe it makes you a better, more balanced, open minded person. The earlier you start the better!

My wife and I are in awe when we hear stories from our kiwi friends. When I was 18, stuck in our study books and not doing a whole let else (Other than play cricket), our kiwi pals were baby sitting some random kid in France. Not only were they exploring another country, they were working in parallel to make ends meet. Grabbing a degree was not the outmost priority, at the time. By the age of 25, they have saved enough funds to put down a 10% deposit on their first home, while I am doing that 20 years later!

We experienced this first hand, when we offered a hitch hiker a lift one day. The young lady was traveling, exploring New Zealand and working on the side to pay for her travel. She told us that she was heading into the city and the plan was to work at some cafe. Its a minimum wage job but at $22 NZD/hr, that can support you a lot.

My wife and I feel that we wasted time sticking to the comforts of our parents. We are not blaming them. Thats how we were raised and we do this different in India.

Lifestyle and living choices are poles apart.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by poloman

We may be the only country in the world where promising youngsters take their life due to exam pressure?

We all need to remember that this is a privilege of the well-to-do classes in India. The majority % of the Indian population have to start out on their own at a very young age, even younger than the college going kids we are talking about (who are all adults, not kids btw). For these people coming from villages and tier 2 cities, moving to a metro city in an entirely different far away state is more tougher than these young adults who go to do higher education in overseas (atleast their basic needs of food, shelter, etc) are not up for question.

If you have a service individual working in / around your place of residence who clearly isn't a local, ask him/her about his teenage years. Chances are high that he had to move states on his own and eke out a living in a new alien world.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

My wife and I feel that we wasted time sticking to the comforts of our parents. We are not blaming them. Thats how we were raised and we do this different in India.

Gives a view of some of the privileges we take for granted in our lives, don't we.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

My wife and I feel that we wasted time sticking to the comforts of our parents. We are not blaming them. Thats how we were raised and we do this different in India.

I didn't have the luxury to consider this. At my home, it was a race against my father's retirement day. His employer didn't provide pension then, although they brought it two years later.

I am not from a privileged family, my parents never owned a car. So, it was a must that I start earning before my father retired. That practically ruled out higher studies, or back-packing trip across countries doing odd jobs in my 20s. My first two jobs didn't even pay salary on time. However, I managed to get into TCS just 4 months before my father retired, and it was very stressful until that happened.

After spending nearly a decade in USA, I returned back to India. My parents were entering their 70s and I knew government won't take care of them.

[Drexler]

Hello fellow Team BHPians! This is my very first post so let me introduce myself. I am Yash, 24 year old from Mumbai and currrently living in Muenchen. My username 'Drexler' comes from a Formula Student racecar focused limited slip differential. In my bachelor years I was involved in my University's Formula Student team so much so that my parents had given up on me. Everyday I used to bunk lectures and work on the racecar. Nevertheless this part of my life taught me a lot of valuable lessons and I am most grateful to those years. After my Bachelors I started working as a CAE Engineer in the field of Automotive Vehicle Safety. I worked for couple of years and then planned to do my Masters in Automotive Engineering. What better country to learn about Automobiles than Germany? (I am a big time German Automotive aficianado). Thus I moved to Munich 1 and a half year ago for pursuing Masters in Automotive Engineering and been working as a Simulations Ingenieur in a big Bavarian OEM parallely.

I had always planned every step in my life, be it Bachelors or job or Masters. I even planned to move back to India in 3-4 years as I wanted to live close to my parents and loved ones.

I am almost done with my Masters with 3 years of Industry experience and now contemplating if I should stay in Germany or move back to India. I personally am not feeling at home here and would prefer moving back to India. Currently my thought process has 2 factors - 1. Financial factor 2. Emotional factor. Please let me know if there should be any other factors as well that I should be considering.

When I was in India I had emotional stablity but being a fresher not much of financial stability. Now that I am in Germany I have financial stability but no emotional stability as my loved ones are back in India. I want to move back to India but not sure if moving back right after my Masters without considerable experience will help me towards the financial aspect in the bigger picture. If I plan to stay here for few more years to gain some more international exposure then I probably won't be happy with myself or the way I am living right now.

I want to seek some advice from the experienced ones who have been through something similar to this and made a good and happy living in India. I want to work in Automotive Industry specifically in R&D as this is my dream job.

Thanks,
Yash

[androdev]

Originally Posted by Drexler

I am almost done with my Masters with 3 years of Industry experience and now contemplating if I should stay in Germany or move back to India. I personally am not feeling at home here and would prefer moving back to India. Currently my thought process has 2 factors - 1. Financial factor 2. Emotional factor. Please let me know if there should be any other factors as well that I should be considering.

Welcome to team-bhp and it's wonderful to hear you are getting to study and work in an area that you are very passionate about - in arguably the best place for doing so.

It makes sense to return if your parents need you to be with them due to old age and health considerations.

If there are are no health/emergency considerations, it's better not to return this soon given all the hard work that has gone into building a platform for your career. At the same time, it makes little sense to live there feeling emotionally miserable.

Visit your family/India more often, say 2-3 times a year. Bring your family to Germany once a year to spend time with you and to do some touring, etc. If you get to be together 3-4 times a year, life in Germany may not be so emotionally taxing. Your parents may appreciate the opportunity to experience that part of the world. All this travel will cost you significant money - that's the price to pay which I think is totally worth it if you love being with your family. It's OK if you are unable to start saving from day one or buy house/cars, etc. The real financial dividends will come later in your career if you stay the course and build a great career, so hopefully your early expenses on travel, etc. won't leave any scars. I would like to believe that emigration is possible without completely losing family ties as long as some compromises are made in other areas.

[hdus001]

Originally Posted by androdev

Visit your family/India more often, say 2-3 times a year. Bring your family to Germany once a year to spend time with you and to do some touring, etc. If you get to be together 3-4 times a year, life in Germany may not be so emotionally taxing. Your parents may appreciate the opportunity to experience that part of the world. All this travel will cost you significant money - that's the price to pay which I think is totally worth it if you love being with your family. It's OK if you are unable to start saving from day one or buy house/cars, etc. The real financial dividends will come later in your career if you stay the course and build a great career, so hopefully your early expenses on travel, etc. won't leave any scars. I would like to believe that emigration is possible without completely losing family ties as long as some compromises are made in other areas.

This is great advice. Thanks for sharing androdev.

In these days, it doesn't necessarily have to be an Either India or Overseas situation, there are ways of being in both. Perhaps discuss with your employer if you can work from overseas for a few months in a year, and then spread this into smaller spells throughout the year.

I negotiated this with my employer, and I'm able to work for up to 4 months in a year from India. Keep in mind that there may be tax/legal implications to the company if an employee works from overseas longer than a certain time as then they'd be considered a non-tax-resident, and employers may then not be eligible for govt grants, tax breaks etc. So this may require conversations with mutiple levels of the organisation.

On a side note, I notice in my situation that every year, the 'friends and family' ties in my hometown get smaller, as older relatives die off (and the resulting inheritance disputes diving families), younger relatives migrate away either to other cities like Bangalore or overseas, and friends who are still there are more and more busy with their families/responsibilities and have less time to hang out. And IMO at least in my case, my hometown is fast becoming less amenable to living a relaxed life, due to worsening traffic, waste management, air/water/food quality and a whole lot of such fundamental issues.

[Mystic]

My 2 cents on people in dilemma of coming back to India.

1. Live for today, plan for tomorrow, party tonight. It doesn’t matter wherever you are on this planet due to career, make sure that you are never unhappy. If you donot know what is unhappiness , then you will never look for some happiness elsewhere.

2. India is a blessed sub continent and is sure to pull your heart to it. Be cautious of moving back due to emotional reasons. I myself relocated from Silicon Valley of USA to Silicon Valley of India due to personal family commitments and not emotional reasons.

3. Now the world is a global village. I hardly find any marked change in my life if I am sitting on the beach at Visakhapatnam or in San Diego beach. I am at either of the places to fulfill some personal family commitments as a duty and not on emotional reasons. I feel at home at every place I stay. It is all in mind.